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Author Topic: Sudachi cold hardiness  (Read 312 times)

lavender87

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Sudachi cold hardiness
« on: January 02, 2019, 11:02:50 AM »
 Does anyone have any info about sudachi cold hardiness. I am thinking of an idea why not cross breed the citrangequat and sudachi, isn't it a good idea?

 Since citrangequat has a silent cold resistant gene, the cross might somehow randomly get rid of the bitter taste in citrangequat and increase hardiness level. Since lemon and lime were the least cold hardy in the citrus family, if we could create something similar to lime and lemon in a colder zone it would be great.

maesy

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Re: Sudachi cold hardiness
« Reply #1 on: January 02, 2019, 11:46:40 AM »
My thomasville citrangequat fruits have nearly no bitterness but are very juicy. And they are a great substitute for limes when they are not fully ripe.

Ilya11

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Re: Sudachi cold hardiness
« Reply #2 on: January 02, 2019, 11:56:40 AM »
Yes indeed, Thomasville has no bitter taste and  is more resistant than Sudachi.
In terms of hybridization potential, it is highly nucellar and its pollen is only marginally fertile
Best regards,
                       Ilya

Jloup27

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Re: Sudachi cold hardiness
« Reply #3 on: January 02, 2019, 01:33:00 PM »
I have sudachi "reddish Bud" but I dont know if is very different.

lavender87

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Re: Sudachi cold hardiness
« Reply #4 on: January 02, 2019, 04:26:13 PM »
I have sudachi "reddish Bud" but I dont know if is very different.

  Did you tree survived outside through -15C on Feb/2012? If so, it is pretty cold hardy, isn't it?

SoCal2warm

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Re: Sudachi cold hardiness
« Reply #5 on: January 02, 2019, 04:28:01 PM »
This was posted by one of our members in this forum:
_____________________________________________
jim VH
Vancouver,Wa. zone 8b
March 22, 2018

Yes, My Sudachi and Yuzu easily survived 8F (-13.3C) in January 2017 in Vancouver Wa., just across the Columbia river from Portland Or., with only minor small twig damage and about 20% defoliation on each.  The Sudachi appeared to have a higher percentage of small twig damage than the Yuzu.  On the other hand, the Yuzu is a much larger tree, and size does matter.
_____________________________________________
http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=26301.25


Genetic studies have suggested that Sudachi originated form a cross between an unidentified parent and Yuzu. That unidentified parent probably was a cross between Kishu and a Koji-type citrus which had Tachibana in its ancestry. (Kunenbo is a Koji-type citrus, to give you some idea of what we are talking about here, indeed this "Koji-type" citrus may have been a Kunenbo, but not the same Kunenbo variety that Satsuma, Bloomsweet, and Keraji (as well as Kabosu also) originated from. I think the name "Kunenbo" in general was used to refer to a certain type of larger fruit aromatic tangor-like type of mandarins, which may have all appeared similar to each other but in some cases had heterogenous origins)
http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=27900.0

I'm guessing Sudachi is nearly as, or possibly equal to, hardy as Yuzu and can survive down to zone 8.
It might not really thrive in the colder parts of zone 8, unless planted up against a house or in a large city near a large body of water.
« Last Edit: January 02, 2019, 04:46:14 PM by SoCal2warm »

Jloup27

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Re: Sudachi cold hardiness
« Reply #6 on: January 03, 2019, 12:27:28 AM »
I just had my tree so no accurate data. I have a contact in Switzerland where his took from -12 C without problems.

Moro

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Re: Sudachi cold hardiness
« Reply #7 on: January 03, 2019, 04:40:15 AM »
Yes, I grew Sudachi and Changsha in Ticino near Lago Maggiore on 600m above sea level. We had regular freezes down to -10C, -12C in 2006 and 2012. Both plants survived without any damages.
I now moved on the northern side of the Alps near Lake of Constance and started with Ichangquat 11C in ground. It is doing fine without any protection and grows nicely. First fruit appeared last year.

The big difference between both locations is the type of frost. Ticino has clear and sunny skies almost all winter and frost mostly is radiation frost. Temperatures rarely stay below freezing during the day (only a handful of days per year). In the North, cold winds from the East bring advective frost. Absolute minimum temperatures don't differ much from Ticino but when the "beast from the East" comes, temperatures stay well below freezing for several days in a row. You have to choose a spot which is well sheltered against wind from East and North. Living a few hundred metres from a large lake also helps buffering cold temperatures.
I am currently testing an Ichangensis x sinensis cross from Eisenhut (Z194: http://www.eisenhut.ch/pflanzenmenue-e/index.php?id=285348&q=ichangensis&orderby=abc&modus=liste) on the western wall of the house.

Sylvain

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Re: Sudachi cold hardiness
« Reply #8 on: January 03, 2019, 06:06:38 AM »
Sold by Eisenhut but made by Bernhard Voss.
http://www.agrumi-voss.de/

Ilya11

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Re: Sudachi cold hardiness
« Reply #9 on: January 03, 2019, 09:58:21 AM »
I am currently testing an Ichangensis x sinensis cross from Eisenhut (Z194: http://www.eisenhut.ch/pflanzenmenue-e/index.php?id=285348&q=ichangensis&orderby=abc&modus=liste) on the western wall of the house.


Sold by Eisenhut but made by Bernhard Voss.
http://www.agrumi-voss.de/

IchangensisXSinensis was crossed by B.Voss in Hamburg? Never heard of it.
In Eisenhut catalogue it is from former  Czechoslovakia.
« Last Edit: January 03, 2019, 10:02:28 AM by Ilya11 »
Best regards,
                       Ilya

jim VH

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Re: Sudachi cold hardiness
« Reply #10 on: January 03, 2019, 11:14:37 AM »
I'll enhance Socal's reposting above by adding that my Thomasville Citrangequat on FD rootstock also survived 8F (-13.3C)in Vancouver Wa. during the same winter.  It, however, was 70% defoliated and showed more small twig damage than either the Yuzu or the Sudachi.

My Thomasville-obtained from Mackenzie farms- has a nice flavor with little or no bitterness.  I add the juice to my apple-quince sauce.

lavender87

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Re: Sudachi cold hardiness
« Reply #11 on: January 03, 2019, 11:41:48 AM »
I'll enhance Socal's reposting above by adding that my Thomasville Citrangequat on FD rootstock also survived 8F (-13.3C)in Vancouver Wa. during the same winter.  It, however, was 70% defoliated and showed more small twig damage than either the Yuzu or the Sudachi.

My Thomasville-obtained from Mackenzie farms- has a nice flavor with little or no bitterness.  I add the juice to my apple-quince sauce.

  Interesting, I guess citrangequat is not a stable line and might not grow true from seeds. The F2 and beyond offsprings could be more cold or less cold tolerant.

  I will try to germinate many citrangequat seeds and at 1 year old I will put most of them outside to eliminate those with less cold tolerant. I think I better get rid of those who have dying potential due to freezing. I also plan to get rid of those which show more of trifilate leaves because I guess those with more trifoliate leaves tend to carry down the sourness and bitterness gene from Poncirus.

Florian

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Re: Sudachi cold hardiness
« Reply #12 on: January 03, 2019, 12:39:05 PM »
I am currently testing an Ichangensis x sinensis cross from Eisenhut (Z194: http://www.eisenhut.ch/pflanzenmenue-e/index.php?id=285348&q=ichangensis&orderby=abc&modus=liste) on the western wall of the house.


Sold by Eisenhut but made by Bernhard Voss.
http://www.agrumi-voss.de/

IchangensisXSinensis was crossed by B.Voss in Hamburg? Never heard of it.
In Eisenhut catalogue it is from former  Czechoslovakia.


Wasn't it made in former Czechoslovakia but brought to Germany and subsequently distributed by B. Voss? But we should probably start a new topic for the Ichangensis x sinensis..

SoCal2warm

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Re: Sudachi cold hardiness
« Reply #13 on: January 03, 2019, 02:01:32 PM »
  Interesting, I guess citrangequat is not a stable line and might not grow true from seeds. The F2 and beyond offsprings could be more cold or less cold tolerant.
That could be a good thing if you're trying to hybridize it, using it as the female fruit parent to get a new variety.

Ilya11

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Re: Sudachi cold hardiness
« Reply #14 on: January 03, 2019, 06:10:43 PM »
It is probably not a place to discuss it here, but Thomasville is highly nucellar and is not giving any hybrids as a fruit parent. Its pollen also  has low fertility under normal conditions, I was able to produce some its hybrids with 5* citrumelo only at elevated temperatures.
Best regards,
                       Ilya

manfromyard

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Re: Sudachi cold hardiness
« Reply #15 on: January 04, 2019, 12:07:14 AM »
I'll enhance Socal's reposting above by adding that my Thomasville Citrangequat on FD rootstock also survived 8F (-13.3C)in Vancouver Wa. during the same winter.  It, however, was 70% defoliated and showed more small twig damage than either the Yuzu or the Sudachi.

My Thomasville-obtained from Mackenzie farms- has a nice flavor with little or no bitterness.  I add the juice to my apple-quince sauce.

  Interesting, I guess citrangequat is not a stable line and might not grow true from seeds. The F2 and beyond offsprings could be more cold or less cold tolerant.

  I will try to germinate many citrangequat seeds and at 1 year old I will put most of them outside to eliminate those with less cold tolerant. I think I better get rid of those who have dying potential due to freezing. I also plan to get rid of those which show more of trifilate leaves because I guess those with more trifoliate leaves tend to carry down the sourness and bitterness gene from Poncirus.

USDA tried for along time to get Citrangequat hybrids but no avail. All the seeds are clones, and the pollen appears to be sterile as far as researchers could tell.

Citrangequat is a dead end as far as offspring. Just like mules, a few have offspring, but the vast majority never catch.... Better to go one back and start with a citrange. It'll be somewhat easier...

 

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