The Tropical Fruit Forum

Tropical Fruit => Tropical Fruit Discussion => Topic started by: skhan on March 22, 2019, 12:08:42 PM

Title: Kwai Muk (Artocarpus parvus) Varieties
Post by: skhan on March 22, 2019, 12:08:42 PM
To quickly summarize previous discussions on Kwai Muks:
It takes a long time to get fruit from a seedling.
Starts off growing slow then speeds up.
Fruits are sweet and tart but seem to be highly variable.
Trees don't seem to be bothered by much.
Great candidate for grafting.



With that being said, it would be great if anyone could comment on good varieties they've tasted, seen, developed or are growing themselves.
This tree is not widely growing so the improvements will be far and few.
Starting off from a decent gene pool will probably help us along.


There's some more good information in the post below
http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=8181.0 (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=8181.0)
Title: Re: Kwai Muk (Artocarpus hypargyraeus) Varieties
Post by: barath on March 23, 2019, 12:57:34 AM
I'd be interested to hear about any varieties -- I'm growing a few seedlings grown from seed from Oscar.  I'm sure it will be a very long time before they fruit because they're only about a year old.
Title: Re: Kwai Muk (Artocarpus hypargyraeus) Varieties
Post by: Finca La Isla on March 23, 2019, 07:23:41 AM
I think that the quality can vary and this interests me too, especially after eating some very good ones in Borneo last year.  I have five seedlings coming along from there as well as some 3 year old trees that have grown well.  They are about 15’ tall with trunks of 3-4”.  I wouldn’t be surprised to see them flower this year.  Unfortunately I didn’t get to try that material and I have eaten Kwai muk from a different tree here that wasn’t good enough for me to plant the seeds, very tart.
A good one would certainly be worth selecting.
Peter
Title: Re: Kwai Muk (Artocarpus hypargyraeus) Varieties
Post by: OCchris1 on March 24, 2019, 01:27:56 AM
I have a Kwai Muk in a 25 gallon container that's about 7-8 ft. Just noticed this afternoon, while playing frisbee w/ the kids, that it was covered in newly forming flowers. Last year it bloomed for the first time (I believe.) I think its about 6 years old. This tree is on my short list to go into the ground this Spring. Hope it doesn't suck!
Title: Re: Kwai Muk (Artocarpus hypargyraeus) Varieties
Post by: fruitlovers on March 24, 2019, 01:56:33 AM
Never heard of anyone selecting out choice varieties of kwai muk. I have one large tree that produces large fruits that are very tasty. Am willing to send scions to anyone interested. I just planted at a different location a whole row of kwai muk as windbreak. They were from seeds sourced from Florida some years ago from 3 different trees, so hopefully eventually i'll have more to select from and come up with different strains.
Title: Re: Kwai Muk (Artocarpus hypargyraeus) Varieties
Post by: skhan on March 25, 2019, 04:09:55 PM
Never heard of anyone selecting out choice varieties of kwai muk. I have one large tree that produces large fruits that are very tasty. Am willing to send scions to anyone interested. I just planted at a different location a whole row of kwai muk as windbreak. They were from seeds sourced from Florida some years ago from 3 different trees, so hopefully eventually i'll have more to select from and come up with different strains.

I might have to take you up on that offer in a month or two
Thanks
Title: Re: Kwai Muk (Artocarpus hypargyraeus) Varieties
Post by: Barnacle1982 on March 25, 2019, 08:16:26 PM
I have one in my yard that fruited last year. I do know what variety it is, but it is nothing special. My fruit was tart with no sweetness whatsoever. I tasted one for the first time, at the Grimal Grove in Big Pine key, and it was really good.
Title: Re: Kwai Muk (Artocarpus hypargyraeus) Varieties
Post by: Rob P on March 26, 2019, 02:13:59 AM
I have four large trees from three different sources which are all well over 20years old, and none of them produce fruit worth eating (small and sour). Not wanting to give up on this fruit I recently obtained a really nice variety sourced from a fruit research station in Borneo, this tree was bought from a top grower in North Queensland and planted just over 3 weeks ago. It has already put on a lot of growth, so hopefully in a few years I can enjoy these fruits! If this is the case I can top work my other trees to this variety in the future.
Title: Re: Kwai Muk (Artocarpus hypargyraeus) Varieties
Post by: shpaz on March 27, 2019, 02:46:36 AM
For those growing them from seeds, how long did they take to germinate? I have planted 5 seeds in peat + perlit mix 2.5 months ago.
Title: Re: Kwai Muk (Artocarpus hypargyraeus) Varieties
Post by: fruitlovers on March 27, 2019, 04:15:54 AM
For those growing them from seeds, how long did they take to germinate? I have planted 5 seeds in peat + perlit mix 2.5 months ago.
It's the slowest artocarpus species i've seen to germinate. Took many months to come up, as i recall it was at least 3 months, so be very patient.
Title: Re: Kwai Muk (Artocarpus hypargyraeus) Varieties
Post by: Finca La Isla on March 27, 2019, 10:44:39 AM
What about handling and shelf life of Kwai muk.  Can this fruit be picked at a stage that would allow some form of packing, at least to pick it the day before a farmers market?  What would anyone recommend, what are your experiences?
Thanks, Peter
Title: Re: Kwai Muk (Artocarpus hypargyraeus) Varieties
Post by: fruitlovers on March 28, 2019, 11:37:09 PM
What about handling and shelf life of Kwai muk.  Can this fruit be picked at a stage that would allow some form of packing, at least to pick it the day before a farmers market?  What would anyone recommend, what are your experiences?
Thanks, Peter
Main shortcoming of this fruit is short shelf life. It's good only for local markets. If you picked it while just starting to turn color, place in the field into a cooler immediately, then it could keep 3 days.
Title: Re: Kwai Muk (Artocarpus hypargyraeus) Varieties
Post by: echinopora on March 29, 2019, 06:37:43 AM
3 days is good, I have a hard time getting them from the tree to the kitchen. The one I have is nice if left to soften on the tree.

Rob
Title: Re: Kwai Muk (Artocarpus hypargyraeus) Varieties
Post by: All the fruit on March 29, 2019, 06:39:54 AM
I saw a Kwai muk in the Artocarpus collection in Tenom/Borneo. While all other A. species had straight trunks and were about 20 m tall the Kwai muk was barely 3 m tall, with a crooked, much branched trunk. Is this the normal growth form for this species?
Title: Re: Kwai Muk (Artocarpus hypargyraeus) Varieties
Post by: Finca La Isla on March 29, 2019, 10:21:44 AM
I have a lot of hope for Kwai muk.  I pick fruit on a Friday to sell Saturday morning, I’m hoping I can make that work with this fruit.

I ate fruit from the tree at Tenom and that really convinced me on the quality.  I have two developing trees that we are trying to shape like we work Jakfruit, not letting them go over about 4 meters.  They do seem to want the drop lower branches and go up.  I’m thinking that with the seed material I got from Tenom that I will snip the tips, starting lower down.  That tree there was very easy to harvest, more a large bush than a tree.
Title: Re: Kwai Muk (Artocarpus hypargyraeus) Varieties
Post by: fruitlovers on March 29, 2019, 04:52:37 PM
I saw a Kwai muk in the Artocarpus collection in Tenom/Borneo. While all other A. species had straight trunks and were about 20 m tall the Kwai muk was barely 3 m tall, with a crooked, much branched trunk. Is this the normal growth form for this species?
No, that is not normal.
Title: Re: Kwai Muk (Artocarpus hypargyraeus) Varieties
Post by: Jungle Yard on March 29, 2019, 04:54:46 PM
I saw a Kwai muk in the Artocarpus collection in Tenom/Borneo. While all other A. species had straight trunks and were about 20 m tall the Kwai muk was barely 3 m tall, with a crooked, much branched trunk. Is this the normal growth form for this species?
No, that is not normal.
20-25 feet is normal
Title: Re: Kwai Muk (Artocarpus hypargyraeus) Varieties
Post by: snowjunky on December 22, 2019, 09:18:25 PM
I can't believe they say Kwai Muk is "Native from Kwangtung, China, to Hong Kong". Kwangtung=Guangdong.  I've never seen this fruit there before.  Plenty of lychees and longans, but wth is a Kwai Muk?
Title: Re: Kwai Muk (Artocarpus hypargyraeus) Varieties
Post by: fruitlovers on December 22, 2019, 09:48:32 PM
I can't believe they say Kwai Muk is "Native from Kwangtung, China, to Hong Kong". Kwangtung=Guangdong.  I've never seen this fruit there before.  Plenty of lychees and longans, but wth is a Kwai Muk?
This fruit is very perishable. Probably why you've never seen it in markets.
Title: Re: Kwai Muk (Artocarpus hypargyraeus) Varieties
Post by: Mike T on December 22, 2019, 10:03:11 PM
They get sold in markets in punnets occasionally here like figs or berries. A friend has 4 large trees and the fruit quality,productivity and characteristics seem quite different between the trees although the trees look the same.
Title: Re: Kwai Muk (Artocarpus hypargyraeus) Varieties
Post by: fruitlovers on December 22, 2019, 10:09:24 PM
They get sold in markets in punnets occasionally here like figs or berries. A friend has 4 large trees and the fruit quality,productivity and characteristics seem quite different between the trees although the trees look the same.
I planted also a few different types of kwai muk and will attempt to market them when they all fruit. But i can tell it will be challenging. I have one mature tree that produces huge amounts, very good quality, nice reddish flesh, but does not keep well at all, and the exterior is very delicate, more so than a fig.
Title: Re: Kwai Muk (Artocarpus hypargyraeus) Varieties
Post by: snowjunky on December 22, 2019, 10:28:08 PM
Do they freeze well like durian?
Title: Re: Kwai Muk (Artocarpus hypargyraeus) Varieties
Post by: fruitlovers on December 23, 2019, 01:30:05 AM
Do they freeze well like durian?
Haven't tried freezing them, but some friends did and they said it worked fine. I dehydrated a bunch and they are tasty!
Title: Re: Kwai Muk (Artocarpus hypargyraeus) Varieties
Post by: Mango Stein on December 23, 2019, 04:25:21 AM
I would request skhan as OP to remove Artocarpus hypargyraeus (sic.) from topic title, since that is incorrect. Artocarpus is about to undergo a major shakeup thanks to phylogenomic work recently done. A paper dealing with proposed new binomials will be published in January or February. At any rate, both by current systematics and the provisional new one A. hypargyreus is incorrect, since that has long peduncles and is not in cultivation.

What is in cultivation is indeed the real kwai muk (better pinyin would be 'gwaimuk'), but the associated binomial has almost always been mistaken. Its current ID is A. nitidus subsp. lingnanensis, but will probably become A. parvus.
Title: Re: Kwai Muk (Artocarpus hypargyraeus) Varieties
Post by: snowjunky on December 23, 2019, 08:57:27 PM
How about A. hole ... a lot easier to remember.
Title: Re: Kwai Muk (Artocarpus hypargyraeus) Varieties
Post by: Mango Stein on December 23, 2019, 10:22:28 PM
How about A. hole ... a lot easier to remember.

Hey tuff boi. Do you do stand up? We could be looking at the next George Carlin here.
Title: Re: Kwai Muk (Artocarpus hypargyraeus) Varieties
Post by: fruitlovers on December 24, 2019, 03:39:37 AM
How about A. hole ... a lot easier to remember.
:D Yes, but you forgot, it has to be in latin?
Title: Re: Kwai Muk (Artocarpus hypargyraeus) Varieties
Post by: snowjunky on December 24, 2019, 04:19:37 AM
How about A. hole ... a lot easier to remember.
:D Yes, but you forgot, it has to be in latin?

A. holeo
A. holeus
A. holeus maximus
Take your pick.  Which one sounds latin?  I'm no Einstein.
Title: Re: Kwai Muk (Artocarpus hypargyraeus) Varieties
Post by: 00christian00 on December 24, 2019, 01:47:53 PM
I would request skhan as OP to remove Artocarpus hypargyraeus from topic title, since that is incorrect. Artocarpus is about to undergo a major shakeup thanks to phylogenomic work recently done. A paper dealing with proposed new binomials will be published in January or February. At any rate, both by current systematics and the provisional new one A. hypargyraeus is incorrect, since that has long peduncles and is not in cultivation.

What is in cultivation is indeed the real kwai muk (better pinyin would be 'gwaimuk'), but the associated binomial has almost always been mistaken. Its current ID is A. nitidus subsp. lingnanensis, but will probably become A. parvus.

I think that's a bad idea. It would mean it will be hard to search for info on kwai muk since most are used to the old name.
The best way to go imho if you want to use the new name is something like A.nitidus subsp. lingnanensis (ex hypargyraeus ).
It's long but at least you can find the thread with the old name.
Title: Re: Kwai Muk (Artocarpus hypargyraeus) Varieties
Post by: Caesar on December 24, 2019, 06:42:20 PM
Never heard of anyone selecting out choice varieties of kwai muk. I have one large tree that produces large fruits that are very tasty. Am willing to send scions to anyone interested. I just planted at a different location a whole row of kwai muk as windbreak. They were from seeds sourced from Florida some years ago from 3 different trees, so hopefully eventually i'll have more to select from and come up with different strains.

I have a seedling tree, still smaller than me, so I don't expect a harvest for a long time. That said, I'm keen on trying its own fruit, so I don't wanna top-work it. Can the scions be used as cuttings to root directly? Is there a decent strike rate? I'm interested in some proven good trees myself. Come to think of it... If cuttings were a viable strategy, I could always take cuttings of my current seedling and top-work the proven scions over it, without losing the original... I'm seeing no downside here, though it's contingent on cuttings working well for this species.
Title: Re: Kwai Muk (Artocarpus hypargyraeus) Varieties
Post by: snowjunky on December 24, 2019, 07:36:10 PM
Never heard of anyone selecting out choice varieties of kwai muk. I have one large tree that produces large fruits that are very tasty. Am willing to send scions to anyone interested. I just planted at a different location a whole row of kwai muk as windbreak. They were from seeds sourced from Florida some years ago from 3 different trees, so hopefully eventually i'll have more to select from and come up with different strains.

I have a seedling tree, still smaller than me, so I don't expect a harvest for a long time. That said, I'm keen on trying its own fruit, so I don't wanna top-work it. Can the scions be used as cuttings to root directly? Is there a decent strike rate? I'm interested in some proven good trees myself. Come to think of it... If cuttings were a viable strategy, I could always take cuttings of my current seedling and top-work the proven scions over it, without losing the original... I'm seeing no downside here, though it's contingent on cuttings working well for this species.

You can just graft the variety to a branch instead of top working your seedling, then you'll have both.
Title: Re: Kwai Muk (Artocarpus hypargyraeus) Varieties
Post by: Frog Valley Farm on December 25, 2019, 06:18:57 AM
We have a few trees.  We have one grafted tree purchased at Excalibur that held its first fruit last year.  The leaves are slightly different on this tree.
Title: Re: Kwai Muk (Artocarpus hypargyraeus) Varieties
Post by: Finca La Isla on December 25, 2019, 12:31:55 PM
Can you post photos of the leaves that illustrate the difference?
Thanks, Peter
Title: Re: Kwai Muk (Artocarpus hypargyraeus) Varieties
Post by: Frog Valley Farm on December 25, 2019, 01:33:02 PM
Can you post photos of the leaves that illustrate the difference?
Thanks, Peter

The grafted tree leaves are all uniform elliptical, whereas the seedling trees are irregular elliptical.


(https://i.postimg.cc/DJx6bNpb/65-F00-F8-F-5324-4-A7-F-8769-F72028-DE95-C4.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/DJx6bNpb)
Grafted tree
(https://i.postimg.cc/VSRB3T8H/D76205-D9-E666-405-F-91-EE-9-DA357-DA908-D.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/VSRB3T8H)
Grafted tree


(https://i.postimg.cc/2bgqJFVK/1-DBAF68-A-795-B-434-D-B317-E0-D115260612.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/2bgqJFVK)
Seed grown tree
(https://i.postimg.cc/tY31S6yB/892-F3-C57-12-E6-4342-BD05-DFB5-C9-A23-D52.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/tY31S6yB)
Seed grown tree
Title: Re: Kwai Muk (Artocarpus hypargyraeus) Varieties
Post by: Mango Stein on December 25, 2019, 10:05:38 PM

I think that's a bad idea. It would mean it will be hard to search for info on kwai muk since most are used to the old name.
The best way to go imho if you want to use the new name is something like A.nitidus subsp. lingnanensis (ex hypargyraeus ).
It's long but at least you can find the thread with the old name.

Mama mia. You think people prefer to search by typing hypargyreus instead of kwai muk? Which is easier?
As I said, just get rid of hypargyraeus (sic.) and leave kwai muk.
Never quite understood people who want to perpetuate a mistake, presumably until the end of time. But you can't delay forever. Stop making excuses for people, it's not hard to learn a new name, and it is not hard to rename thread titles.

And have you thought about how many future newcomers to the forum might struggle to find information because a redundant and obsolete term has to continue to be used here? TFF should be on the cutting edge, not in sync with Wikipedia. But anyway, I am arguing to just remove the incorrect, not add the provisional new name, i.e. a neutral position.

Then there is the issue of A. hypargyreus actually already existing and being another species. What happens when people want to discuss this species or sell seeds? In fact, just to prove a point I think I might start a thread and cultivate the real hypargyreus as it is a fine tree anyway. Also, the new name for kwai muk is NOT A.nitidus subsp. lingnanensis. That is the CURRENT name. We do not know what the new name will be for sure. What we do know is that it will NOT be a subspecies of nitidus and we know that it NEVER WAS hypargyreus.

skhan mate, not sure what you are waiting for. I can PM you the peer reviewed articles if you need. Or I guess you can continue to trust nursery labels and amateurs on Wikipedia. This confusion has happened because A. hypargyreus is also known as a kwai muk, albeit its full name 白桂木 when translated is White kwai muk. The one in cultivation that everyone grows is Hong (Red) kwai muk. This is the main kwai muk, and so if no color adjective is used, by default the red one is being assumed.
Title: Re: Kwai Muk (Artocarpus hypargyraeus) Varieties
Post by: fruitlovers on December 26, 2019, 02:03:06 AM
Like all other artocarpus, kwai muk have different shaped leaves at different stages of growth, even on the same tree.
Title: Re: Kwai Muk (Artocarpus hypargyraeus) Varieties
Post by: Mango Stein on December 26, 2019, 02:27:15 AM
Like all other artocarpus, kwai muk have different shaped leaves at different stages of growth, even on the same tree.

Your point is? I am well aware of the intraspecific variation of kwai muk. It's all the same species. But that species is NOT A. hypargyreus (White kwai muk), which has long peduncles, velvety underside of leaves, male flowers very pale and female flowers white and bumpy. Neither you or anyone else is growing it, though I'd love to be proven wrong. If anyone wants to upload their personal photo of a tree in cultivation, go right ahead.

In sum, the two species are only superficially similar, and that is why they have similar common names. But no one has the real A. hypargyreus and if you did you would not think they are all the one species of "kwai muk".
Title: Re: Kwai Muk (Artocarpus hypargyraeus) Varieties
Post by: Ulfr on December 26, 2019, 03:08:48 AM
Pretty sure fruitlovers was replying to frog valley farm. It explains why a grafted tree would have different leaves (just like seedling vs grafted jacks).
Title: Re: Kwai Muk (Artocarpus hypargyraeus) Varieties
Post by: Caesar on December 26, 2019, 03:14:16 AM
I usually look up A. hypargyreus to find info on this Red Kwai Muk, not the common name. Botanical names tend to bring me more relevant info than common names, even when misapplied. I consider myself a stickler for correct nomenclature, but that won't do me good if I can't find information, so when posting here, I usually go the practical route: the correct name (if one has already been given), plus the misapplied names for the search engine to pick up, perhaps with a nomenclatural explanation for good measure.

My recommendation: stick cf in there. Artocarpus cf. hypargyreus. That way, folks like me (and apparently several others) will find this post when using the misapplied term, while making it clear that this is not a member of that species. "Confer with", meaning it frequently gets compared to a known distinct species. As an added bonus, we won't have to worry about the fact that it currently lacks a correct botanical name, having only a provisional one that will be removed soon enough.

If the concern is the lack of information available for the genuine hypargyreus (presumably because the red one keeps stealing its thunder), it's still a useful connection to make, as any dialogue involving the nomenclature of the red one will invite discussion on the white kwai muk as well, as you are doing now. It generates the attention, leading to information sharing even for the lesser known species.
Title: Re: Kwai Muk (Artocarpus hypargyraeus) Varieties
Post by: snowjunky on December 26, 2019, 03:36:08 AM
Like all other artocarpus, kwai muk have different shaped leaves at different stages of growth, even on the same tree.

Your point is? I am well aware of the intraspecific variation of kwai muk. It's all the same species. But that species is NOT A. hypargyraeus (White kwai muk), which has long peduncles, velvety underside of leaves, male flowers very pale and female flowers white and bumpy. Neither you or anyone else is growing it, though I'd love to be proven wrong. If anyone wants to upload their personal photo of a tree in cultivation, go right ahead.

In sum, the two species are only superficially similar, and that is why they have similar common names. But no one has the real A. hypargyraeus and if you did you would not think they are all the one species of "kwai muk".

First, please don't be offended by my crude humor.  It wasn't aimed at your expense.
I would say that many people here are just hobbyist not botanist, so the most current and accurate botanical name may not be our highest priority.
Using the most familiar name is probably more useful for most people on this forum. 
That being said, your knowledge and contribution on this subject is very much appreciated.
But since the new latin name has not yet been determined, why make a change now.
When the dust settles, please let us know and we can update the thread with the new name and say formerly know as A. hypargyreus.
Title: Re: Kwai Muk (Artocarpus hypargyraeus) Varieties
Post by: Mango Stein on December 26, 2019, 03:58:04 AM
I'm not going to repeat myself too many more times, but there is CURRENTLY a species with the name Artocarpus hypargyreus and THIS AIN'T IT. So by the current and new (future) nomenclature, this thread is incorrectly titled. That is the main issue here.

And I'm not arguing to add a different name, just remove hypargyreus. This thread will more than survive with the name kwai muk. BTW skhan misspelled hypargyreus... that is how unwieldy the name is, so the practical arguments for keeping it I don't think hold water.

Edit: Paper with new taxonomic nomenclature scheduled to be published in Singapore Gardens Bulletin, November 2020.



Title: Re: Kwai Muk (Artocarpus hypargyraeus) Varieties
Post by: fruitlovers on December 26, 2019, 04:41:34 AM
Pretty sure fruitlovers was replying to frog valley farm. It explains why a grafted tree would have different leaves (just like seedling vs grafted jacks).
yes
Title: Re: Kwai Muk (Artocarpus hypargyraeus) Varieties
Post by: Frog Valley Farm on December 26, 2019, 06:06:26 AM
Like all other artocarpus, kwai muk have different shaped leaves at different stages of growth, even on the same tree.

I’ve had one tree for 8 years and one tree for 5 years.  The leaves are definitely different and the general shape have not changed on either tree in all these years. We have small seedlings definitely has evolving leaf form consistent with the ungrafted seed grown tree.  They do look like two different trees.  Hopefully the grafted tree will hold fruit this year.  Last years only fruit dropped at about 1”.  The seedling tree is 8 years and has yet to flower.
(https://i.postimg.cc/kBd6LV8h/63-DF9200-107-E-43-EA-97-AB-0-A96366-C1-DD8.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/kBd6LV8h)
Fruitlet from grafted tree 6/7/19
Title: Re: Kwai Muk (Artocarpus hypargyraeus) Varieties
Post by: siafu on December 26, 2019, 07:14:27 AM
Hi,

I have a single tree from seed I got years ago from Island Jim, in Florida.
This tree blooms for long periods of time. It produces male flowers and then female flowers, but with little to no overlap.
As a result, it has set a handful of smallish fruits in all these years.

Is it normal for a single tree to behave like this?

I would like to try to grow this species in a different location. Does anyone know if it is possible
to airlayer kwai muk?  Or, any chance that kwai muk is graft compatible with jakfruit?







Title: Re: Kwai Muk (Artocarpus sp.) Varieties
Post by: skhan on December 26, 2019, 08:10:45 AM
Updated the title of the post,
Just let me know when the species name has been decided and approved
Title: Re: Kwai Muk (Artocarpus sp.) Varieties
Post by: Vernmented on December 26, 2019, 11:04:02 AM
Unripe fruits with dark red flesh
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49277863833_40963ffa74_c.jpg)


The usual tree I harvest from with a more "normal" color
(https://live.staticflickr.com/1901/44504193335_4272d28078_c.jpg)


Difference in budwood color
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49277864678_55a815fa73_c.jpg)



Title: Re: Kwai Muk (Artocarpus hypargyraeus) Varieties
Post by: snowjunky on December 26, 2019, 12:58:24 PM
Never heard of anyone selecting out choice varieties of kwai muk. I have one large tree that produces large fruits that are very tasty. Am willing to send scions to anyone interested. I just planted at a different location a whole row of kwai muk as windbreak. They were from seeds sourced from Florida some years ago from 3 different trees, so hopefully eventually i'll have more to select from and come up with different strains.

Were there other Kwai Muk trees to help pollinate your large fruited tree?  Or did it produce large fruits by self pollinating?
Some sources say cross pollination produces larger and more fruits.
Title: Re: Kwai Muk (Artocarpus sp.) Varieties
Post by: fruitlovers on December 26, 2019, 04:47:27 PM
I have an isolated kwai muk tree that produces nice large fruits on its own and gets loaded with fruits.
Title: Re: Kwai Muk (Artocarpus sp.) Varieties
Post by: snowjunky on December 26, 2019, 05:22:22 PM
I have an isolated kwai muk tree that produces nice large fruits on its own and gets loaded with fruits.

And tasty too! Awesome.  Thank you for offering the scion wood.
Now I just have to find a seedling and see if Kwai Muk can survive in Phoenix.
Anyone here tried to grow Kwai Muk in Arizona or have any info on this?
Title: Re: Kwai Muk (Artocarpus sp.) Varieties
Post by: Caesar on January 03, 2020, 01:37:21 PM
I have an isolated kwai muk tree that produces nice large fruits on its own and gets loaded with fruits.

I'd still like to try the scions as cuttings, if feasible. I haven't grafted yet, so I'm not very confident in my skills. That productive tree sounds like elite material indeed.
Title: Re: Kwai Muk (Artocarpus sp.) Varieties
Post by: fruitlovers on January 04, 2020, 03:56:01 AM
I have an isolated kwai muk tree that produces nice large fruits on its own and gets loaded with fruits.

I'd still like to try the scions as cuttings, if feasible. I haven't grafted yet, so I'm not very confident in my skills. That productive tree sounds like elite material indeed.
Difficult to start from cuttings, unless you use rooting hormones and mist house.
Title: Re: Kwai Muk (Artocarpus sp.) Varieties
Post by: Caesar on January 06, 2020, 11:39:01 PM
I have an isolated kwai muk tree that produces nice large fruits on its own and gets loaded with fruits.

I'd still like to try the scions as cuttings, if feasible. I haven't grafted yet, so I'm not very confident in my skills. That productive tree sounds like elite material indeed.
Difficult to start from cuttings, unless you use rooting hormones and mist house.

I'm testing the waters now. Took some cuttings off my own little tree (along with some from my Sterculia quadrifida), scored the bark at the base, dipped the moistened bases in powdered rooting hormone, and stuck 'em in potting soil, covered with a big ziplock bag. I don't expect much, but let's see where this goes.
Title: Re: Kwai Muk (Artocarpus sp.) Varieties
Post by: Mango Stein on December 14, 2020, 11:46:20 AM
Updated the title of the post,
Just let me know when the species name has been decided and approved

The Artocarpus taxonomy revision paper was published today. Such papers are purposely put in open-access journals, as the authors believe taxonomic changes to be important enough that the wider community has access and that the adoption is contracted rather than drawn-out (resulting in more confusion). As was anticipated, Kwaimuk or Gwaimuk (formerly Artocarpus nitidus subsp. lingnanensis) was renamed to Artocarpus parvus. I should repeat that it was NEVER A. hypargyreus, so those wanting to "keep this name" because they are "used to it" need to comprehend that this was a case of mistaken identity.

I have already made a thread on true A. hypargyreus, with photos, so you can find that if you are interested. But the gist is that nobody has it in cultivation. It is indeed called something like "white kwaimuk" transliterated from Cantonese, but it is not related (in the same clade) to kwaimuk. There are some other important changes mentioned in the paper.

A. nitidus subsp. nitidus was renamed to A. lamellosus. It is endemic to the Philippines and its common names are butong and kubi (Tagalog).

A. nitidus subsp. humilis was renamed to A. humilis. Common names are Beruni and Selanking

A. nitidus subsp. borneensis was renamed to A. borneensis. Common names are Tampang, Beruni and Selanking

A. nitidus subsp. griffithii was renamed to A. griffithii. Common name is pizhenye kwaimuk, which transliterates from Chinese as "lancelote-leafed kwaimuk"

The paper didn't really cover common names, that was my own addition, though I wish they had. I am of the personal opinion that "kwaimuk" should be one word. The fact is there is no standard of how pidgin Chinese is brought into Western languages. But basically writing kwai muk is the same writing ly chee or long yan. And it is actually gwaimuk properly transliterated, alas this isn't a big deal and is probably too late to correct.

You will find a lot of photographs and species-ID keys in the paper. But this paper just concerns the subgenus Pseudojaca, so all of the jakfruit, breadfruit, marang, pedalai, keledang et cetera are not included (they continue to have their same binomials).

As for when the proposals will be "approved" there is no official measure of this, though it should be mentioned that the lead author Dr Elliot has done most of the annotations for Kew's herbarium, and so the database POWO should be updated to reflect the new names soon. In a couple of years Flora of Singapore Moraceae will come out and the system will be included in that. If someone is a member of the Artocarpus group on FB, please post this paper there. The paper can be downloaded from: https://www.nparks.gov.sg/sbg/research/publications/gardens-bulletin-singapore/-/media/sbg/gardens-bulletin/gbs_72_02_y2020/72_02_06_y2020_v7202_gbs_pg173.pdf (https://www.nparks.gov.sg/sbg/research/publications/gardens-bulletin-singapore/-/media/sbg/gardens-bulletin/gbs_72_02_y2020/72_02_06_y2020_v7202_gbs_pg173.pdf)
Title: Re: Kwai Muk (Artocarpus sp.) Varieties
Post by: FlyingFoxFruits on December 14, 2020, 11:54:47 AM
Improved Plant Regeneration Method for Artocarpus lakoocha  (seeds i got from Oscar years ago, now a tree with fruits setting, even after 25F, dying back to the ground, now 10ft tall approx, 8yrs old?)

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s42535-019-00041-4/figures/1
Title: Re: Kwai Muk (Artocarpus sp.) Varieties
Post by: roblack on December 14, 2020, 05:23:17 PM
Any ideas on what this is?

(https://i.postimg.cc/XZ3S3cBJ/kwaimuk122020.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/XZ3S3cBJ)
Title: Re: Kwai Muk (Artocarpus sp.) Varieties
Post by: Mango Stein on December 14, 2020, 07:22:54 PM
Any ideas on what this is?

(https://i.postimg.cc/XZ3S3cBJ/kwaimuk122020.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/XZ3S3cBJ)

Looks like kwaimuk to me (A. parvus).
Title: Re: Kwai Muk (Artocarpus hypargyraeus) Varieties
Post by: Saone on December 15, 2020, 09:43:25 AM
I have a lot of hope for Kwai muk.  I pick fruit on a Friday to sell Saturday morning, I’m hoping I can make that work with this fruit.

I ate fruit from the tree at Tenom and that really convinced me on the quality.  I have two developing trees that we are trying to shape like we work Jakfruit, not letting them go over about 4 meters.  They do seem to want the drop lower branches and go up.  I’m thinking that with the seed material I got from Tenom that I will snip the tips, starting lower down.  That tree there was very easy to

What you do for you jackfruit tree pruning wise?
Title: Re: Kwai Muk (Artocarpus parvus) Varieties
Post by: skhan on April 22, 2022, 06:55:52 PM
Just wanted to update this thread a little.
Looks like the tree I planted from a 1gal in 2018 is fruiting for the first time.

(https://i.postimg.cc/fV2b5QpM/IMG-20220422-164913063-HDR.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/fV2b5QpM)

(https://i.postimg.cc/WhVt1n0c/IMG-20220422-164936484.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/WhVt1n0c)

The tree is like 6ft at it's highest and was growing under the shade of a big Papaya tree until a few months also.
All the graft wood I got from Oscars ended up failing, I used the buddy tape method. I probably need to use the plastic bag method next time. Not as easy to graft as mango for sure.
Title: Re: Kwai Muk (Artocarpus parvus) Varieties
Post by: Jaboticaba45 on April 22, 2022, 07:45:28 PM
This fruit is really good - it tastes like citrus and peach combined. It is also perfectly balanced sweet/tart. It's nice to see the scientific name be cleared up after such confusion in the past. Mine is still pretty small and will need several more years before any hope of fruit. Luckily this thing does great in greenhouses and is pretty cold tolerant.
Title: Re: Kwai Muk (Artocarpus parvus) Varieties
Post by: brian on April 22, 2022, 08:05:00 PM
I just planted one of these in the ground in my greenhouse.  Nice to hear good things about the fruit.   Any idea how long to fruit from seed? 
Title: Re: Kwai Muk (Artocarpus parvus) Varieties
Post by: skhan on April 22, 2022, 08:27:10 PM
Looks like this took 4 years to fruit from a 1ft seedling so maybe around 5 altogether.
That's assuming the fruit holds to maturity.

Some of the fruits I've tried in the past were really sour with not much sweetness to balance it.
The grafted on from Excalibur is really nice though.

The forum member who I got the tree from mentioned the seeds came from Oscar so that sounds promising.
Title: Re: Kwai Muk (Artocarpus parvus) Varieties
Post by: brian on April 22, 2022, 08:42:51 PM
I didn't know Excalibur had grafted kwai muk, maybe that is new.  When I visited there a few years ago they had only ~1ft seedlings. 

My current seedlings are from Etsy seller, not sure what type they may be.  Are kwai muk typically slow growers?  ou mentioned yours was 6ft in 4-5yrs?

My jackfruit in-ground in-greenhouse reached ~9ft tall in about two years from planting a 1-2ft nursery tree... it grows so fast I have to prune it three times a year.  A slower growing artocarpus would be nice if it falso ruits at small size.
Title: Re: Kwai Muk (Artocarpus parvus) Varieties
Post by: roblack on April 22, 2022, 09:57:42 PM
Ours has gone from about 2 feet to now 6 feet in about 16 months, after being planted in ground.
Title: Re: Kwai Muk (Artocarpus parvus) Varieties
Post by: snowjunky on April 24, 2022, 05:56:17 PM
My kwai muk grew from 3ft in a 3gal pot to 7 ft after one year in the ground.  It was also under a papaya for shade until recently when the papaya broke in half. 
It grew long, but doesn't have many leaves.  I guess it can grow in 8.2pH soil with lots of compost.  I'm not sure it can survive this Phoenix summer without shade.
I got it from toptropicals.  They call it Jesses Creme de la Creme.  It doesn't look grafted and toptropocals doesn't say if it's airlayered or seedling.  The root ball was too big for me to check for that.
I bought some seedling kwai muk from etsy and they grew slowly in cactus mix for a year.  After I up-potted them in regular potting soil last summer they began to decline for some reason.
Maybe they needed more aeration in the soil, but the Jesses Creme de la Creme grew very well in the same regular potting soil.  I'm baffled
Here's what my ugly tree looks like:

(https://i.postimg.cc/Pvj0y5t6/IMG-5222-1.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Pvj0y5t6)
Title: Re: Kwai Muk (Artocarpus parvus) Varieties
Post by: skhan on June 27, 2022, 04:01:20 PM
(https://i.postimg.cc/G8N5qLBX/IMG-20220627-152316735-HDR.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/G8N5qLBX)

(https://i.postimg.cc/47n0673K/IMG-20220627-152330179-HDR.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/47n0673K)

Most of the fruitlets fell off.
Only have a handful left, I'm assuming its normal for the first time fruiting though
It starting to flower again.

I've tasted a few of the aborted fruit on the ground, still sour.
Title: Re: Kwai Muk (Artocarpus parvus) Varieties
Post by: skhan on August 18, 2022, 06:59:34 AM
It looks like most of the fruit ended up falling off.
I don't think they ever properly ripened.
I'd find fruit on the floor every now and then, it would have a nice color but not really any flavor beyond sour.

It started flowering back a few months ago so we'll see.

I'm thinking the sudden shift in sun exposure must have done something.
But since this is the first time this tree is fruiting i guess it shouldn't be surprising.
Title: Re: Kwai Muk (Artocarpus parvus) Varieties
Post by: Kankan on August 18, 2022, 12:27:29 PM
My kwai muk grew from 3ft in a 3gal pot to 7 ft after one year in the ground.  It was also under a papaya for shade until recently when the papaya broke in half. 
It grew long, but doesn't have many leaves.  I guess it can grow in 8.2pH soil with lots of compost.  I'm not sure it can survive this Phoenix summer without shade.
I got it from toptropicals.  They call it Jesses Creme de la Creme.  It doesn't look grafted and toptropocals doesn't say if it's airlayered or seedling.  The root ball was too big for me to check for that.
I bought some seedling kwai muk from etsy and they grew slowly in cactus mix for a year.  After I up-potted them in regular potting soil last summer they began to decline for some reason.
Maybe they needed more aeration in the soil, but the Jesses Creme de la Creme grew very well in the same regular potting soil.  I'm baffled
Here's what my ugly tree looks like:

(https://i.postimg.cc/Pvj0y5t6/IMG-5222-1.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Pvj0y5t6)


Very interesting regarding the cactus mix soil. I have sandy loam but Kwai Muk seems to not like that.
Title: Re: Kwai Muk (Artocarpus parvus) Varieties
Post by: hammer524 on August 18, 2022, 12:55:44 PM
My kwai muk grew from 3ft in a 3gal pot to 7 ft after one year in the ground.  It was also under a papaya for shade until recently when the papaya broke in half. 
It grew long, but doesn't have many leaves.  I guess it can grow in 8.2pH soil with lots of compost.  I'm not sure it can survive this Phoenix summer without shade.
I got it from toptropicals.  They call it Jesses Creme de la Creme.  It doesn't look grafted and toptropocals doesn't say if it's airlayered or seedling.  The root ball was too big for me to check for that.
I bought some seedling kwai muk from etsy and they grew slowly in cactus mix for a year.  After I up-potted them in regular potting soil last summer they began to decline for some reason.
Maybe they needed more aeration in the soil, but the Jesses Creme de la Creme grew very well in the same regular potting soil.  I'm baffled
Here's what my ugly tree looks like:

(https://i.postimg.cc/Pvj0y5t6/IMG-5222-1.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Pvj0y5t6)

wow, your mango trees look great
Title: Re: Kwai Muk (Artocarpus parvus) Varieties
Post by: snowjunky on August 20, 2022, 10:43:25 PM
My kwai muk grew from 3ft in a 3gal pot to 7 ft after one year in the ground.  It was also under a papaya for shade until recently when the papaya broke in half. 
It grew long, but doesn't have many leaves.  I guess it can grow in 8.2pH soil with lots of compost.  I'm not sure it can survive this Phoenix summer without shade.
I got it from toptropicals.  They call it Jesses Creme de la Creme.  It doesn't look grafted and toptropocals doesn't say if it's airlayered or seedling.  The root ball was too big for me to check for that.
I bought some seedling kwai muk from etsy and they grew slowly in cactus mix for a year.  After I up-potted them in regular potting soil last summer they began to decline for some reason.
Maybe they needed more aeration in the soil, but the Jesses Creme de la Creme grew very well in the same regular potting soil.  I'm baffled
Here's what my ugly tree looks like:

(https://i.postimg.cc/Pvj0y5t6/IMG-5222-1.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Pvj0y5t6)

wow, your mango trees look great

I wish they are mangos.  They are white sapotes.  Mangos hate my soil and I don't have time to pamper them.
My kwai muk is still alive with some unburnt small leaves.  It even put out some flowers in June.  I painted all the branches and trunk for sun protection. 
I guess Kwai Muk is somewhat heat and sun resistant on par with Kohala longan or Starfruit here in Phoenix.
Title: Re: Kwai Muk (Artocarpus parvus) Varieties
Post by: hammer524 on August 20, 2022, 10:47:16 PM
Gotcha, I've been terrible with mangos too


My kwai muk grew from 3ft in a 3gal pot to 7 ft after one year in the ground.  It was also under a papaya for shade until recently when the papaya broke in half. 
It grew long, but doesn't have many leaves.  I guess it can grow in 8.2pH soil with lots of compost.  I'm not sure it can survive this Phoenix summer without shade.
I got it from toptropicals.  They call it Jesses Creme de la Creme.  It doesn't look grafted and toptropocals doesn't say if it's airlayered or seedling.  The root ball was too big for me to check for that.
I bought some seedling kwai muk from etsy and they grew slowly in cactus mix for a year.  After I up-potted them in regular potting soil last summer they began to decline for some reason.
Maybe they needed more aeration in the soil, but the Jesses Creme de la Creme grew very well in the same regular potting soil.  I'm baffled
Here's what my ugly tree looks like:

(https://i.postimg.cc/Pvj0y5t6/IMG-5222-1.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Pvj0y5t6)

wow, your mango trees look great

I wish they are mangos.  They are white sapotes.  Mangos hate my soil and I don't have time to pamper them.
My kwai muk is still alive with some unburnt small leaves.  It even put out some flowers in June.  I painted all the branches and trunk for sun protection. 
I guess Kwai Muk is somewhat heat and sun resistant on par with Kohala longan or Starfruit here in Phoenix.
Title: Re: Kwai Muk (Artocarpus parvus) Varieties
Post by: brian on March 03, 2023, 11:14:00 AM
what a difference planting in-ground makes!   A year ago these trees were both around the same size.  The one in container is maybe twice as large in a year, and the one in ground is five times bigger and has been actively putting out new growth all winter long.

(https://i.imgur.com/Lp0PTnT.jpg)
Title: Re: Kwai Muk (Artocarpus parvus) Varieties
Post by: snowjunky on March 03, 2023, 04:39:54 PM
Wow, that's a nice looking kwai muk.  It's cool how the leaves changed shape.
My kwai muk finally died last summer without afternoon shade.  It's not quite as heat tolerant as Kohala longan or Starfruit.
Title: Re: Kwai Muk (Artocarpus parvus) Varieties
Post by: Jaboticaba45 on March 03, 2023, 10:44:10 PM
what a difference planting in-ground makes!   A year ago these trees were both around the same size.  The one in container is maybe twice as large in a year, and the one in ground is five times bigger and has been actively putting out new growth all winter long.

(https://i.imgur.com/Lp0PTnT.jpg)
Brian looks nice!
How much spacing do you have between the trees?
Title: Re: Kwai Muk (Artocarpus parvus) Varieties
Post by: brian on March 03, 2023, 11:02:20 PM
About six feet trunk to trunk.  Trees end up taking a cylindrical shape because I have to prune them to clear a walking path.  Obviously spacing is much tighter than ideal, but it is worth it to me to be able to grow so many things.  Should be fine for trees that fruit on old growth, but I ran into issues with vigorous citrus that fruits on new growth.  I had to cut them back so frequently the fruiting wood was lost.  I yanked those and replaced them with same scion grafted onto dwarfing rootstocks, but I am not sure what I'll do once some of these non-citrus get too big as I'm not aware of dwarfing rootstocks for most of these things.  Jackfruit is the largest but should fruit on the inside so pruning is no big deal.  Mango is probably a year away from hitting the ceiling.  I'm not sure what I'll do there, maybe take a major limb off every year
Title: Re: Kwai Muk (Artocarpus parvus) Varieties
Post by: Matti.Laith on March 22, 2023, 01:26:46 PM
Wow, that's a nice looking kwai muk.  It's cool how the leaves changed shape.
My kwai muk finally died last summer without afternoon shade.  It's not quite as heat tolerant as Kohala longan or Starfruit.

Was that over the summer in the ground?
I just got my Kwai muk recently but will definitely keep it in a more shaded spot over the summer.
Would be fantastic if this can fruit here.
Title: Re: Kwai Muk (Artocarpus parvus) Varieties
Post by: snowjunky on March 22, 2023, 07:01:05 PM
Yes, in ground died 2nd year.  1st year it grew with lots of shade from Papaya.  Second year only 1hr shade late afternoon.
Title: Re: Kwai Muk (Artocarpus parvus) Varieties
Post by: roblack on March 22, 2023, 08:13:59 PM
Getting some cool colors on new growth:

(https://i.postimg.cc/sMBVqt18/kwaimuk23.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/sMBVqt18)

(https://i.postimg.cc/jwhKyTkW/kwaimukb23.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/jwhKyTkW)
Title: Re: Kwai Muk (Artocarpus parvus) Varieties
Post by: brian on March 22, 2023, 09:16:38 PM
Getting some cool colors on new growth:

(https://i.postimg.cc/sMBVqt18/kwaimuk23.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/sMBVqt18)

(https://i.postimg.cc/jwhKyTkW/kwaimukb23.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/jwhKyTkW)

Yes!  it seems the new growth is a gradient of magenta to green, like the sheen of an oil spill.  Nothing like other artocarpus I have seen so far.
Title: Re: Kwai Muk (Artocarpus parvus) Varieties
Post by: brian on December 03, 2023, 05:27:50 PM
what a difference planting in-ground makes!   A year ago these trees were both around the same size.  The one in container is maybe twice as large in a year, and the one in ground is five times bigger and has been actively putting out new growth all winter long.

(https://i.imgur.com/Lp0PTnT.jpg)

My in-ground kwai muk is now ten feet tall and 6ft diameter!  I can't believe the first picture was from only 8 months ago.  The one in the container grew about six inches in the same time.  I guess I don't need it as a backup anymore, the in-ground one is super healthy.

I am holding the container one in my hand. Because it is so close to camera it seems large but it is in a half-gal pot and only 3ft tall

(https://i.imgur.com/frjtOnd.jpg)
Title: Re: Kwai Muk (Artocarpus parvus) Varieties
Post by: K-Rimes on December 03, 2023, 09:29:03 PM
Oh man, that is super promising brian!

I have one in ground at my house, 9b, it doesn't grow too well. I planted one at work where the soil is amazing and it has a great irrigation set up (and water I don't pay for) and hope to see some action like this.