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Tropical Fruit => Tropical Fruit Discussion => Topic started by: simon_grow on February 09, 2012, 04:14:25 PM

Title: Lychee grafted onto Longan?
Post by: simon_grow on February 09, 2012, 04:14:25 PM
In an effort to try and improve the growth rate of my Lychee plants, I started to wonder if Lychees can be grafted onto Longan.  I did a google search and found this
http://chestofbooks.com/gardening-horticulture/fruit/Tropical-And-Subtropical-Fruits/Litchi-Propagation.html (http://chestofbooks.com/gardening-horticulture/fruit/Tropical-And-Subtropical-Fruits/Litchi-Propagation.html) .  Higgin's has supposedly crown grafted Lychee onto Longan and even more exciting is that he observed that the stock appeared to show influence on the Lychee scion and produced more rapid growth than Lychee growing on its own rootstock.  Higgin's also noted that in some cases, the grafted Lychee foliage seems to undergo a change!

The increased growth rate is very exciting and the changes in the foliage may be beneficial if the Longan can impart its wind tolerance to the Lychee.  If the grafted Lychee does show some Longan characteristics, I wonder if it will affect the characteristics of the fruit as well, which can be a bad thing. 

Has anyone attempted to graft Lychee onto Longan?  I will be planting some Lychee seeds this year in hopes that I can innarch the seedlings onto my named cultivars to produce multiple rootstock Lychees.
Simon
Title: Re: Lychee grafted onto Longan?
Post by: nullzero on February 09, 2012, 04:21:09 PM
Very interesting, I have always heard that Lychee's were very hard to graft. If Lychee's can be grafted to Longan, it would make Lychee's much more California friendly. It seems the Lychee leaves are not as thick and tolerant of the arid climate, compared to Longan leaves.
Title: Re: Lychee grafted onto Longan?
Post by: FlyingFoxFruits on February 09, 2012, 04:21:44 PM
In an effort to try and improve the growth rate of my Lychee plants, I started to wonder if Lychees can be grafted onto Longan.  I did a google search and found this
[url]http://chestofbooks.com/gardening-horticulture/fruit/Tropical-And-Subtropical-Fruits/Litchi-Propagation.html[/url] ([url]http://chestofbooks.com/gardening-horticulture/fruit/Tropical-And-Subtropical-Fruits/Litchi-Propagation.html[/url]) .  Higgin's has supposedly crown grafted Lychee onto Longan and even more exciting is that he observed that the stock appeared to show influence on the Lychee scion and produced more rapid growth than Lychee growing on its own rootstock.  Higgin's also noted that in some cases, the grafted Lychee foliage seems to undergo a change!

The increased growth rate is very exciting and the changes in the foliage may be beneficial if the Longan can impart its wind tolerance to the Lychee.  If the grafted Lychee does show some Longan characteristics, I wonder if it will affect the characteristics of the fruit as well, which can be a bad thing. 

Has anyone attempted to graft Lychee onto Longan?  I will be planting some Lychee seeds this year in hopes that I can innarch the seedlings onto my named cultivars to produce multiple rootstock Lychees.
Simon


Whitmans book, Five decades, I remember him saying that some grafted Alugpag, did much better than airlayers...so I'd imagine this could be possible with lychee/longan...I think he grafted alupag on to longan, if I recall correct...with out having a Sr.Member moment....lol...
Title: Re: Lychee grafted onto Longan?
Post by: HMHausman on February 09, 2012, 04:25:34 PM
I've never tried it, but I assume it could be done.  However, I wonder if it would really be worth the effort as longan and lychee seem to have about the same growth rate...at least at my house they do. I would also expect there would be some level, even if minute, of incompatibility. And of course, these are not the easiest trees to graft under any circumstances.

Harry
Title: Re: Lychee grafted onto Longan?
Post by: fruitlovers on February 09, 2012, 06:22:35 PM
Because somebody did it doesn't mean it is easy to do. Lychee is kind of particular, preferring similar cultivars of lychee as rootstock for succesful grafts. So i'm guessing that lychee on longan is not an easy graft, and may show incompatibility issues at some point. But i would not be surprised that with some effort it could be done. After all lychee and longan can be cross pollinated to produce hybrid fruits. The hybrid fruits turn out sterile, but this has also been done, so these two plants are much more closely related than we may realize.
But as to alupag scion on longan, i think this is a lot easier, as these 2 are much more closely related than is lychee and longan.
Oscar
Title: Re: Lychee grafted onto Longan?
Post by: fruit4me on July 28, 2012, 01:54:07 AM
Has anyone on this forum had success yet? I decided to give it a try by using my 2 year old longan seedling thats in a pot and inarched to my in ground maruitius lychee. This was done on July 4th and i plan to leave it on until winter to see if it takes.

Heres a picture

(http://s16.postimage.org/98ochguz5/Lychee_Longan_graft.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/98ochguz5/)

Title: Re: Lychee grafted onto Longan?
Post by: bradflorida on July 28, 2012, 07:24:15 AM
I heard secondhand that the late bob Murray of treehouse nursery said that he experimented with grafting lychee onto longan and the only cultivar of lychee that succeeded was sweet cliff.

Brad
Title: Re: Lychee grafted onto Longan?
Post by: Jackfruitwhisperer69 on July 28, 2012, 09:33:38 AM
Has anyone on this forum had success yet? I decided to give it a try by using my 2 year old longan seedling thats in a pot and inarched to my in ground maruitius lychee. This was done on July 4th and i plan to leave it on until winter to see if it takes.
Heres a picture
([url]http://s16.postimage.org/98ochguz5/Lychee_Longan_graft.jpg[/url]) ([url]http://postimage.org/image/98ochguz5/[/url])


Hi Fruit4me,
Yes, you must let it be...till the union is totally formed. When approach graft a tree, I like to use approach-tongue graft to get a large area of cambium contact...never lost a plant with this method :) Keep us posted ;)

It will be most awesome to see a lychee successfully growing on a Longan rootstock 8)

I got a few seedlings of longan that i collected seeds at the Botanical Garden, which i will use for grafting in spring with budwood from a top notch Longan tree at the B.T. From what i have read...is that shield-budding is very successful, Hopefully this method will be successful :) 
Title: Re: Lychee grafted onto Longan?
Post by: simon_grow on July 30, 2012, 07:40:00 PM
Hey fruit4me, I ended up not trying this experiment because I do not have a lot of Lychee nor Longan material to work with.  I believe Behlgarden attempted a Lychee grafted onto his in-ground Longan but the graft failed if I remember correctly.  I believe you will have a better chance of success because with innarching, both stock and scions still have their roots.  I believe the issue of incompatibility arrises when the stock and scion have different number of chromasomes.  My memory is horrible but I remember reading somewhere that even Lychee grafted onto Lychee can fail because of the difference in the number of chromasomes.  If you are lucky and both your stock and scion have the same number or chromasomes, you have a good chance of success with this graft. 

Just be careful that you did not bind the tree so tightly as to girdle the plants.  Normally this wouldn't be much of an issue but since your plan on leaving the two trees bound until Winter, it may be advisable to check your grafting sites occasionally or even un-bind and re-wrap your union after a month or two.  When I innarched my Maha Chanok with my seedling mango, I almost lost both plants to girdling.  I left my two trees bound for about 3 months and my tree is now doing great.
Simon
Title: Re: Lychee grafted onto Longan?
Post by: fruit4me on July 31, 2012, 01:25:15 AM
Simon,
Thanks for the advice, I will unwrap and re-wrap every two months and keep you guys posted.

Max
Title: Re: Lychee grafted onto Longan?
Post by: behlgarden on February 05, 2015, 11:39:17 AM
any success to this? I am going to give this another try now as my Longan is pushing, it might be ideal time to try once more.
Title: Re: Lychee grafted onto Longan?
Post by: fruit4me on February 05, 2015, 12:34:37 PM
Ive given up on this.
Title: Re: Lychee grafted onto Longan?
Post by: behlgarden on February 05, 2015, 12:36:06 PM
I read articles that wedge/cleft grafting does work very well on lychees. I am going to try it again. last time when I tried, the timing was not on my side. now, rootstocks of longan are active and pushing/getting ready to push, full of sap.
Title: Re: Lychee grafted onto Longan?
Post by: behlgarden on June 12, 2015, 03:45:07 PM
Looks like success here finally. Lychee on longan. this was mature wood, grafted on green longan trunk.  Next I want to try green on green, need to find budwood that is actively pushing, I have two small Hakip plants but they suck in growth. not sure what I need to do to boost their growth.

(http://s1.postimg.org/bll3c84fv/Screenshot_2015_06_12_12_42_03_1.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/bll3c84fv/)
Title: Re: Lychee grafted onto Longan?
Post by: fyliu on June 12, 2015, 05:10:55 PM
Great to see the progress.

If it's the Hak Ip from me, it's partly because the plant's been in that 1 gallon pot for 2 years after I took it off the mother tree while I looked for someone to take it. Probably severely root-bound at the time. Also, lychees just grows slow until it reaches a certain size, then they grow fast.
Title: Re: Lychee grafted onto Longan?
Post by: fruitlovers on June 12, 2015, 06:40:34 PM
Looks like success here finally. Lychee on longan. this was mature wood, grafted on green longan trunk.  Next I want to try green on green, need to find budwood that is actively pushing, I have two small Hakip plants but they suck in growth. not sure what I need to do to boost their growth.

Congratulations on succesful graft. Let us know if they remain compatible?
Title: Re: Lychee grafted onto Longan?
Post by: xshen on June 12, 2015, 06:44:09 PM
How old is the graft?  I'm wondering if the union is fully fused
Title: Re: Lychee grafted onto Longan?
Post by: simon_grow on June 12, 2015, 07:28:54 PM
Omg, I'm super excited now. Behl, what rootstock and scion did you use? I'm going to try innarching Kaimana and Emperor onto Kohala air layers. Please do keep us updated. I'm especially interested to see if you will get increase vigor and see less wind damage on newly emerging leaves. I'm also interested if the resulting Lychees will taste normal or if it'll have a Longan flavor. Please let me know if you decide to sell this tree!

Simin
Title: Re: Lychee grafted onto Longan?
Post by: fruitlovers on June 12, 2015, 07:42:37 PM
Omg, I'm super excited now. Behl, what rootstock and scion did you use? I'm going to try innarching Kaimana and Emperor onto Kohala air layers. Please do keep us updated. I'm especially interested to see if you will get increase vigor and see less wind damage on newly emerging leaves. I'm also interested if the resulting Lychees will taste normal or if it'll have a Longan flavor. Please let me know if you decide to sell this tree!

Simin

Why would it have a longan flavor? Do good mangoes grafted on turpentine rootstock have a turpentine taste?
BTW, lychee and longan flowers can be and have been crossed to produce new fruit, but the fruit has sterile seeds.
Title: Re: Lychee grafted onto Longan?
Post by: sapote on June 12, 2015, 09:32:21 PM
Be careful -- the new union might be able to walk :)
Title: Re: Lychee grafted onto Longan?
Post by: simon_grow on June 12, 2015, 11:38:41 PM
Oscar, I read a scholarly article regarding horizontal gene transfer or perhaps it was lateral gene transfer many years ago and I believe the conclusion was that grafted plants had a different genetic makeup compared to the original scion and rootstock. The grafted scion or the rootstock, I forget which, had the genetic makeup which seemed to be a chimera of sorts.

I believe someone posted something regarding the horizontal/lateral gene transfer subject previously on this forum or on GW.

I have also read that rootstocks of citrus trees affect Brix levels and also acidity. While doing research on grafted watermelons, I also discovered that certain squash rootstock can affect Brix levels and the firmness of the flesh of the resulting watermelon. Based on these past bits of information, I felt it was possible that taste can be affected. I'm totally just throwing it out there and not saying it will or won't happen. I'm hoping it won't affect flavor unless it's for the better of course😄

Simon
Title: Re: Lychee grafted onto Longan?
Post by: simon_grow on June 12, 2015, 11:52:49 PM
Omg, I'm super excited now. Behl, what rootstock and scion did you use? I'm going to try innarching Kaimana and Emperor onto Kohala air layers. Please do keep us updated. I'm especially interested to see if you will get increase vigor and see less wind damage on newly emerging leaves. I'm also interested if the resulting Lychees will taste normal or if it'll have a Longan flavor. Please let me know if you decide to sell this tree!

Simin

Why would it have a longan flavor? Do good mangoes grafted on turpentine rootstock have a turpentine taste?
BTW, lychee and mango flowers can be and have been crossed to produce new fruit, but the fruit has sterile seeds.

Oscar, I think you meant Lychee and Longan can cross? If a Lychee and a mango can cross, surely a Longan tasting Lychee from a Lychee scion grafted onto Longan isn't so far fetched.

Simon
Title: Re: Lychee grafted onto Longan?
Post by: fyliu on June 13, 2015, 02:01:51 AM
Wasn't the original 'hanging green' supposedly grafted onto longan, which is why it was vigorous or something?

They should have some level of compatibility but I don't know if I believe the Chinese legends. A lot of them seems to be made up for marketing.
Title: Re: Lychee grafted onto Longan?
Post by: fruitlovers on June 13, 2015, 02:43:09 AM
Oscar, I read a scholarly article regarding horizontal gene transfer or perhaps it was lateral gene transfer many years ago and I believe the conclusion was that grafted plants had a different genetic makeup compared to the original scion and rootstock. The grafted scion or the rootstock, I forget which, had the genetic makeup which seemed to be a chimera of sorts.

I believe someone posted something regarding the horizontal/lateral gene transfer subject previously on this forum or on GW.

I have also read that rootstocks of citrus trees affect Brix levels and also acidity. While doing research on grafted watermelons, I also discovered that certain squash rootstock can affect Brix levels and the firmness of the flesh of the resulting watermelon. Based on these past bits of information, I felt it was possible that taste can be affected. I'm totally just throwing it out there and not saying it will or won't happen. I'm hoping it won't affect flavor unless it's for the better of course😄

Simon

Simon, even if the grafting affect brix levels that is certainly very different than making a lychee taste like a longan. Those two taste very differently.
Title: Re: Lychee grafted onto Longan?
Post by: fruitlovers on June 13, 2015, 02:44:43 AM
Omg, I'm super excited now. Behl, what rootstock and scion did you use? I'm going to try innarching Kaimana and Emperor onto Kohala air layers. Please do keep us updated. I'm especially interested to see if you will get increase vigor and see less wind damage on newly emerging leaves. I'm also interested if the resulting Lychees will taste normal or if it'll have a Longan flavor. Please let me know if you decide to sell this tree!

Simin

Why would it have a longan flavor? Do good mangoes grafted on turpentine rootstock have a turpentine taste?
BTW, lychee and mango flowers can be and have been crossed to produce new fruit, but the fruit has sterile seeds.

Oscar, I think you meant Lychee and Longan can cross? If a Lychee and a mango can cross, surely a Longan tasting Lychee from a Lychee scion grafted onto Longan isn't so far fetched.

Simon

Thanks, i corrected it. BTW a typo is a lot less far fetched than turning a lychee into a longan tasting fruit.  ;)
Title: Re: Lychee grafted onto Longan?
Post by: behlgarden on June 13, 2015, 04:32:22 PM
Rootstock is diamond river, there used to be mature tree removed by previous home owner when she sold the home, the root suckers keep coming back. I grafted Mauritius over it and it's been about 2 months plus so union must be well fused by now.
Title: Re: Lychee grafted onto Longan?
Post by: fruitlovers on June 13, 2015, 05:13:10 PM
Rootstock is diamond river, there used to be mature tree removed by previous home owner when she sold the home, the root suckers keep coming back. I grafted Mauritius over it and it's been about 2 months plus so union must be well fused by now.

That is good to know. If the experiment is repeated by someone else it would be good to keep same rootstock and scion because lychees and longans are quite sensitive when grafting about compatibility between different cultivars, even when grafting within the same genus.
Title: Re: Lychee grafted onto Longan?
Post by: behlgarden on June 23, 2015, 02:21:36 PM
Update 6/23/15:

Clean push and another bud pushing. Let's see how fast it grows from here and how long it survives.


(http://s3.postimg.org/bfo0rtdrz/Screenshot_2015_06_23_11_17_41_1.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/bfo0rtdrz/)
Title: Re: Lychee grafted onto Longan?
Post by: fruit4me on June 23, 2015, 04:24:26 PM
Great job Behl! I just grafted my Mauritius onto my longan a few days ago.  Hopefully, I get same result. Thanks for the update
Title: Re: Lychee grafted onto Longan?
Post by: simon_grow on June 23, 2015, 05:10:03 PM
Cool update Behl! I wonder what other varieties can be grafted onto this rootstock and also Kohala as it is a very vigorous grower. I'm going to try grafting Emperor onto my Kohala. I'm really hoping there will not be delayed incompatibility issues. I'm definitely going to keep a close eye on this thread.
Simon
Title: Re: Lychee grafted onto Longan?
Post by: behlgarden on June 23, 2015, 06:53:39 PM
I know sweetheart sucks in growth and then production, specially here in So. Cal. what are the top 2 lychees that do well and are excellent for our climate?

I would love to get my hands on them or their wood and graft onto the longan seedlings that I have in the ground.  the grafting seems like a success as of now. I am excited.
Title: Re: Lychee grafted onto Longan?
Post by: simon_grow on June 23, 2015, 09:37:32 PM
No Mai Tsze and Hanging Green are thought to do well here but I do not have confirmation of that yet. I've never had Hanging Green before but Dr Francis Zee told me it was a good quality Lychee. I've had plenty of NMZ in China and it is by far my favorite variety of Lychee. Both my trees are very tiny, about 18 inches tall so it's going to be a bit before I'll have scions or air layers available but I'll keep you updated.

Simon
Title: Re: Lychee grafted onto Longan?
Post by: behlgarden on June 23, 2015, 11:18:33 PM
Thanks Simon.  I would recommend you try grafting too. Make sure longan is fresh and green rootstock and pushing and so is lychee. Green on green.
Title: Re: Lychee grafted onto Longan?
Post by: simon_grow on June 24, 2015, 12:20:23 AM
Thanks for the tip Behl, I'll definitely give it a shot. If a Hanging Green or NMT graft on Kohala works, I'll be a very happy man.

Simon
Title: Re: Lychee grafted onto Longan?
Post by: kh0110 on June 24, 2015, 12:56:30 AM
Thanks for the tip Behl, I'll definitely give it a shot. If a Hanging Green or NMT graft on Kohala works, I'll be a very happy man.

Simon
Same here!
Title: Re: Lychee grafted onto Longan?
Post by: behlgarden on June 24, 2015, 01:24:53 AM
One more thing on rootstock. What was here was excellent diamond river plant that fruited well. Homeowner took plant wwith them. I got the roots that pushed into a seedling. I destroyed the seedling few times and each year it keeps coming back. So essentially it's not a known rootstock. So I would graft it onto any longan and try it that way.
Title: Re: Lychee grafted onto Longan?
Post by: fruit4me on June 24, 2015, 01:28:43 AM
I know sweetheart sucks in growth and then production, specially here in So. Cal."

I really hope that's not entirely true. My small sweetheart planted six months ago is holding two little fruits. I'm planning to graft it to my longans when it get bigger. My Mauritius didn't take off in growth until about three to four years.

The sweetheart fruits looks very similar to the Hakip(Florida) lychee that I fruited from my potted tree last year.

Sweetheart lychee tree
(http://s30.postimg.org/6ht6i53od/20150622_100450.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/6ht6i53od/)

Sweetheart lychee fruits. Very excited to try this variety. The tree was purchased from Mimosa nursery in LA

(http://s24.postimg.org/8if18ah3l/20150622_100339.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/8if18ah3l/)
Title: Re: Lychee grafted onto Longan?
Post by: LEOOEL on June 27, 2015, 08:24:38 PM
Great Thread! I hope this discovery will lead to an improvement in lychee fruit yields, perhaps irrelevant of winter season temperatures. You guys are on to something here, best of luck.
Title: Re: Lychee grafted onto Longan?
Post by: behlgarden on June 30, 2015, 11:31:58 PM
Getting into growth mode and pushing hard now.
(http://s29.postimg.org/wvp0qqhxv/20150630_182210.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/wvp0qqhxv/)
Title: Re: Lychee grafted onto Longan?
Post by: fruit4me on July 01, 2015, 01:02:04 AM
Leaves are actually forming! I'm just imagining the day  I can have longans and lychees  fruiting off the same tree. Awesome!!!
Title: Re: Lychee grafted onto Longan?
Post by: simon_grow on July 01, 2015, 08:52:04 AM
That is so cool, that's definitely a real push and not just reserve energy from the scion. If there is no delayed compatibility issues, you can air layer the rootstock as proven rootstock that is compatible with Mauritius Lychees. Please keep us updated, this is soooo exciting!!!

Simon
Title: Re: Lychee grafted onto Longan?
Post by: turgut on July 02, 2015, 02:04:28 AM
hi
In my greenhous ;Lychee grafted onto Longan

(http://s7.postimg.org/hfi2m1ml3/20150702_072605_1.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/hfi2m1ml3/)

(http://s27.postimg.org/ppkjkdtr3/20150702_072611_1.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/ppkjkdtr3/)
Title: Re: Lychee grafted onto Longan?
Post by: simon_grow on July 02, 2015, 03:36:17 AM
Hey Behl, is that another branch you have close to your pushing scion?

Barath, that is super cool, is it easier using seedling as rootstock or is that an air layer you are grafting onto?

Simon
Title: Re: Lychee grafted onto Longan?
Post by: fruit4me on July 02, 2015, 05:29:33 AM
hi
In my greenhous ;Lychee grafted onto Longan

([url]http://s7.postimg.org/hfi2m1ml3/20150702_072605_1.jpg[/url]) ([url]http://postimg.org/image/hfi2m1ml3/[/url])

([url]http://s27.postimg.org/ppkjkdtr3/20150702_072611_1.jpg[/url]) ([url]http://postimg.org/image/ppkjkdtr3/[/url])


How long ago was yours grafted. What variety is the lychee and longan rootstock? Thanks for posting.
Title: Re: Lychee grafted onto Longan?
Post by: behlgarden on July 02, 2015, 11:46:24 AM
Hey Behl, is that another branch you have close to your pushing scion?

Barath, that is super cool, is it easier using seedling as rootstock or is that an air layer you are grafting onto?

Simon

Simon, yes, that is another branch of longan that has leaves. I left it open so leaves get the required nutrients to the roots and help lychee graft get the benefits. That branch got another graft of mauritious two weeks ago.

so far the graft has pushed two nodes. one node has two branches growing nicely.  I will check its progress every two weeks and report here.

due to the excitement, I grafted hak ip from my in ground small plant onto my 14-yr old longan to experiment. timing couldn't be any better.
Title: Re: Lychee grafted onto Longan?
Post by: behlgarden on July 02, 2015, 11:49:00 AM
How long ago was yours grafted. What variety is the lychee and longan rootstock? Thanks for posting.

the Graft came from greenscene Fullerton orchard when I visited there on Apr 12th. so it did take good 4-6 weeks before buds broke the buddy tape. I am actually shocked to see it grow and survive as we had brutal May that was coldest month of record with temps dipped into 39 in my area in Corona Hills.
Title: Re: Lychee grafted onto Longan?
Post by: behlgarden on July 03, 2015, 01:36:27 PM
Wood hooo!!! Another take of Mauritius on longan seedling that grew from root. This one took in less than 3 weeks.


(http://s24.postimg.org/e0a0q1zcx/20150703_100652.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/e0a0q1zcx/)
Title: Re: Lychee grafted onto Longan?
Post by: simon_grow on July 03, 2015, 04:02:04 PM
Boy am I jealous!  Those could be air layered and sold. If you can pump them out, there should be some demand for them, especially if you can get Emperor grafts to work on Longan. I bookmarked this thread. Love the updates Behl, keep them coming!
Simon
Title: Re: Lychee grafted onto Longan?
Post by: behlgarden on July 03, 2015, 04:55:01 PM
I am in desperate need of budwood to graft and experiment. Hak Ip, Emperor, and anyother good ones. LOL

can someone send me? I will pay shipping!
Title: Re: Lychee grafted onto Longan?
Post by: fruitlovers on July 03, 2015, 06:19:52 PM
Boy am I jealous!  Those could be air layered and sold. If you can pump them out, there should be some demand for them, especially if you can get Emperor grafts to work on Longan. I bookmarked this thread. Love the updates Behl, keep them coming!
Simon
What would be the benefit of air layering Emperor on longan rootstock versus air layering regular Emperor? Are you assuming the one on longan rootstock is going to grow better at your location?
Title: Re: Lychee grafted onto Longan?
Post by: Droshi on July 03, 2015, 09:57:33 PM
I have an extra Kohala tree that I was thinking of trying this with. Would need some budwood too. I guess it should be easy to come by since most people aren't grafting Lychee other than Emperor is that right? Might be good news for some of the more rare varieties, as I think the barrier to getting them was needing to get live trees as opposed to just scions.
Title: Re: Lychee grafted onto Longan?
Post by: simon_grow on July 04, 2015, 02:22:53 AM
Boy am I jealous!  Those could be air layered and sold. If you can pump them out, there should be some demand for them, especially if you can get Emperor grafts to work on Longan. I bookmarked this thread. Love the updates Behl, keep them coming!
Simon
What would be the benefit of air layering Emperor on longan rootstock versus air layering regular Emperor? Are you assuming the one on longan rootstock is going to grow better at your location?

Oscar,  from my own experience and from discussions with a few nurserymen, it appears that Emperors do not thrive on their own rootstock. I'm not sure if it's because Emperors dwarfing habit doesn't allow it to thrive or if it's just more sensitive to high pH. One nurseryman told me that Emperors on their own roots are very sensitive to high pH and also to city water.

I am just going by assumptions but I do feel that Lychees, especially Emperors, grafted onto Longan rootstock may benefit from the more robust and tolerant root system of the Longan.

Simon
Title: Re: Lychee grafted onto Longan?
Post by: marklee on July 04, 2015, 03:34:08 AM
Boy am I jealous!  Those could be air layered and sold. If you can pump them out, there should be some demand for them, especially if you can get Emperor grafts to work on Longan. I bookmarked this thread. Love the updates Behl, keep them coming!
Simon
What would be the benefit of air layering Emperor on longan rootstock versus air layering regular Emperor? Are you assuming the one on longan rootstock is going to grow better at your location?
[/quote

Oscar,  from my own experience and from discussions with a few nurserymen, it appears that Emperors do not thrive on their own rootstock. I'm not sure if it's because Emperors dwarfing habit doesn't allow it to thrive or if it's just more sensitive to high pH. One nurseryman told me that Emperors on their own roots are very sensitive to high pH and also to city water.

I am just going by assumptions but I do feel that Lychees, especially Emperors, grafted onto Longan rootstock may benefit from the more robust and tolerant root system of the Longan.

Simon

Simon, I have plenty of longan root stock and an Emperor, and No Mai Tsze, I've been wanting to experiment with.
Title: Re: Lychee grafted onto Longan?
Post by: simon_grow on July 04, 2015, 01:32:35 PM
Mark, let's call it a party. I've got another idea I'm throwing around. I planted lots of Lychee seedlings and I would like to innarch the seedlings with Emperor rootstock. Quang grafted Emperor onto different Lychee rootstock but it's still early. If Emperor thrives on seedling rootstock, that could be a great technique for increasing the survivability rate of Emperors without the troubles of grafting onto a different genus.

If both techniques work, I wonder which one will grow better? Emperor grafted onto seedling Lychee will have tap root but Lychee grafted onto Longan may still have more vigor and be better suited to city water and highly alkaline soils. I guess there's one way to find out.

Simon

Title: Re: Lychee grafted onto Longan?
Post by: fruitlovers on July 04, 2015, 09:58:27 PM
If lychee longan graft is so easy then what about having cocktail tree with both fruits on one tree?
Title: Re: Lychee grafted onto Longan?
Post by: fruit4me on July 05, 2015, 12:25:30 AM
If lychee longan graft is so easy then what about having cocktail tree with both fruits on one tree?

Exactly what I was thinking. Today I had a friend help me grafted sweetheart, Mauritius, and Brewster lychee onto my longan tree. Will update once I get some progress.
Title: Re: Lychee grafted onto Longan?
Post by: simon_grow on July 05, 2015, 01:43:42 AM
Great ideas everyone. Fruitforme, please keep us updated, you could save some of us a lot of time. If one or two of your grafted varieties takes on your Longan rootstock, that would lead me to believe that the Lychee and Longan are more compatible than we thought.

This also makes me wonder why we haven't heard more about Lychees grafted onto Longan? There must have been others that have tried this, I'm sure I've read it somewhere but perhaps the benefits of the grafted plants aren't as beneficial as believed or the cost and labor are too high for commercial production. I wonder if there is any papers on long term compatibility? If the grafted trees are fully compatible and vigor is conveyed, I would expect many Lychee farmers to be using this technique. Perhaps it would be more beneficial to farmers living in the USA growing in high pH soil? I bet Bill Mee would be interested.

I wonder how a multiple rootstock, one Longan rootstock one Lychee rootstock, Lychee tree would do. Perhaps more is not always better but why wouldn't an extra Lychee rootstock prove beneficial?

Simon
Title: Re: Lychee grafted onto Longan?
Post by: fruitlovers on July 05, 2015, 04:44:27 AM
Great ideas everyone. Fruitforme, please keep us updated, you could save some of us a lot of time. If one or two of your grafted varieties takes on your Longan rootstock, that would lead me to believe that the Lychee and Longan are more compatible than we thought.

This also makes me wonder why we haven't heard more about Lychees grafted onto Longan? There must have been others that have tried this, I'm sure I've read it somewhere but perhaps the benefits of the grafted plants aren't as beneficial as believed or the cost and labor are too high for commercial production. I wonder if there is any papers on long term compatibility? If the grafted trees are fully compatible and vigor is conveyed, I would expect many Lychee farmers to be using this technique. Perhaps it would be more beneficial to farmers living in the USA growing in high pH soil? I bet Bill Mee would be interested.

I wonder how a multiple rootstock, one Longan rootstock one Lychee rootstock, Lychee tree would do. Perhaps more is not always better but why wouldn't an extra Lychee rootstock prove beneficial?

Simon

Maybe this is a simplistic answer, but a large part of the reason that more might not have been done on this topic is because usually both lychee and longans are propagated by air layers, not by grafting.
Title: Re: Lychee grafted onto Longan?
Post by: behlgarden on July 06, 2015, 11:52:28 AM
I have been failing to graft with success Lychee on Longan for over 3 years but decided not to give up. let me tell you, its not easy to get a take, specially on a matured longan tree unless you topwork it (I might give it a try).

what might have gone in my favor could be timing, compatibility (cant confirm), and seedling vs. matured longan as rootstock.

Those interested in this project, give all your tries and have faith. Persistence pays. document what you are doing so it can be used by others as basis of success.

Happy grafting.
Title: Re: Lychee grafted onto Longan?
Post by: simon_grow on July 07, 2015, 01:00:01 PM
Hey Behl, did you try approach grafting Lychee onto Longan? I read somewhere that the Cambium of a Lychee is only active at certain times of the year and I figure that approach grafting would be my best bet since the scion is still attached to the tree. I plan on approach grafting and leaving it there until the union is formed. I figure if I wait 3-6 months, I should hit the window period of active cambium. Thanks,

Simon
Title: Re: Lychee grafted onto Longan?
Post by: behlgarden on July 07, 2015, 01:15:10 PM
I don't have longan seedlings. The ones I am using are the ones popping up around my yard from old roots. I tried one seedling that was close to lychee but in trying to force it it snapped and broke
Title: Re: Lychee grafted onto Longan?
Post by: fruit4me on July 23, 2015, 12:50:06 AM
UPDATE on one of my Mauritius on longan graft. It's starting to push nicely. Im so excited!

(http://s28.postimg.org/lckwizax5/20150722_185250.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/lckwizax5/)

Title: Re: Lychee grafted onto Longan?
Post by: simon_grow on July 23, 2015, 03:45:19 AM
Fruitforme, do you know what variety of Longan you have? Also did your Lychee scions have pimples of new growth or did you use completely dormant scion wood? Thanks,
Simon
Title: Re: Lychee grafted onto Longan?
Post by: xshen on July 23, 2015, 01:13:42 PM
UPDATE on one of my Mauritius on longan graft. It's starting to push nicely. Im so excited!


Congrats on your "Max"imum takes!!  Looks like there will be more fruit4you in the future.

I did 3 sweetheart on kohala a little over month ago.  There are some green buds swelling.  I am also excited to see if these will really push in the next few weeks.  Sometimes we can get away with grafting annona and mangos in the peak of winter but timing is very crucial for these longan and lychee grafts. 
Title: Re: Lychee grafted onto Longan?
Post by: behlgarden on July 23, 2015, 04:57:11 PM
UPDATE on one of my Mauritius on longan graft. It's starting to push nicely. Im so excited!

([url]http://s28.postimg.org/lckwizax5/20150722_185250.jpg[/url]) ([url]http://postimg.org/image/lckwizax5/[/url])


congrats Fruitforme. its funny that these things can be done if conditions are right.

mine is taking a breather before it flushes again I hope. other graft is still into its first flush. two other experiments failed. 
Title: Re: Lychee grafted onto Longan?
Post by: fruit4me on July 24, 2015, 12:48:17 AM
Hey Simon,
I don't know for sure what variety longan i have. If i had to guess, probably a kohala. For this lychee scion, i used a piece that was still greenish to slightly woody with buds that hasn't pushed. I think as long as the rootstock is active and the scion is mature enough, the percentage of getting take is very high. Or could be just pure luck on first try as well.

Thanks Xshen! Hope to see some of your sweetheart grafts exploding with growth!

Behl, thanks again for sharing this with us not giving up. Now just hoping for the long term compatibility.


Title: Re: Lychee grafted onto Longan?
Post by: ScottR on July 24, 2015, 11:02:33 AM
Nice job fruits4me, did you just graft in July or June? Congrat's your acquiring a nice collection!!
Title: Re: Lychee grafted onto Longan?
Post by: fruit4me on July 24, 2015, 11:23:18 AM
Thanks ScottR, this first graft was done around mid June
Title: Re: Lychee grafted onto Longan?
Post by: ScottR on July 26, 2015, 11:09:19 AM
Thanks good to know  ;) 8)
Title: Re: Lychee grafted onto Longan?
Post by: xshen on July 26, 2015, 06:12:05 PM
Here are a couple of Sweetheart on Kohala grafted a month and a half ago.  It's still early to say they took but they're all leafing out.  Grafting longan on longan seems to be a more difficult task.

(https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3730/20023861382_7f0f5c2d0a_h.jpg)

(https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3726/20005395196_9b25a4ae7f_h.jpg)
Title: Re: Lychee grafted onto Longan?
Post by: fruit4me on July 26, 2015, 06:50:56 PM
Nice work Xshen! Seems too easy to be true. I'm waiting on some scions to try this on emperor. Hopefully, it works as well.
Title: Re: Lychee grafted onto Longan?
Post by: simon_grow on July 26, 2015, 06:56:32 PM
Are you guys/gals going to remove some nearby Longan growth to redirect more energy into the Lychee scions? This type of grafting looks really promising from preliminary results.

Simon
Title: Re: Lychee grafted onto Longan?
Post by: behlgarden on July 26, 2015, 07:34:22 PM
I did remove the longan growth. After 1st flush of graft it's stopped in its tracks for now. Looks like compatibility check is in progress. Lol
Title: Re: Lychee grafted onto Longan?
Post by: simon_grow on August 01, 2015, 01:10:12 PM
I performed my first Lychee grafted onto Longan a couple days ago. I used Kaimana as scion and Kohala as rootstock. Unfortunately, my Kaimana had already pushed several inches of new growth so I'm not holding my breath on these grafts. I tried to look for other dormant buds on my Kaimana and found a few along with a few buds that were just starting to push. Here are a couple pictures of Lychee buds.
(http://s9.postimg.org/9wu8ofojf/image.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/9wu8ofojf/)

(http://s9.postimg.org/df68ktpff/image.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/df68ktpff/)

Simon
Title: Re: Lychee grafted onto Longan?
Post by: behlgarden on August 01, 2015, 02:12:28 PM
Simon, are these grafts? I don't see that you wrap these scions?
Title: Re: Lychee grafted onto Longan?
Post by: simon_grow on August 01, 2015, 03:02:19 PM
Sorry about the confusion. The pictures of the Lychee buds are before I removed them from the mother tree. I did wrap the scions before cleft grafting onto the rootstock. I'll take pictures of the grafts when I get a chance.

On a side note, here is a couple pictures of a recently planted Lychee seedling showing what the roots look like after being inoculated by beneficial organisms. You can see that the roots are thin close to the seed but get much wider where the mycorrhizae has entered the roots. These are early pictures and when the mycorrhizae has fully established, the thickness of the root will increase even more.

Simon
(http://s4.postimg.org/x71iu802h/image.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/x71iu802h/)

(http://s4.postimg.org/a4azv1yl5/image.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/a4azv1yl5/)
Title: Re: Lychee grafted onto Longan?
Post by: simon_grow on August 02, 2015, 01:39:35 PM
Here is a picture of my Kaimana Lychee grafted onto a Kohala Longan. The Kaimana scion was already pushing a couple inches of new growth so I am doubtful these will take but with some luck, the dormant buds will push. I plan on patenting my new clothes pin grafting technique, lol.


I also innarched my Kaimana to my in ground Kohala Longan and this approach graft has even less probability of taking than my cleft grafts. I had an extremely difficult time making the cuts on both trees and the semi hard wood is very difficult to line up. I probably have one inch of cambium to cambium contact and only on one side of the graft. This is probably the most difficult graft I've done. The Kaimana is in a pot on a chair next to my in ground Kohala.
(http://s14.postimg.org/yjd3kuljh/image.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/yjd3kuljh/)



(http://s18.postimg.org/qajyrke2t/image.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/qajyrke2t/)

(http://s18.postimg.org/q9a0y5c91/image.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/q9a0y5c91/)

Simon
Title: Re: Lychee grafted onto Longan?
Post by: simon_grow on August 02, 2015, 01:47:01 PM
On a side note, it appears that girdling may in fact help with flowering in Longan and possibly Lychee. This is a picture of the same in ground Kohala Longan. I girdled a branch in order to make an air layer and the branch I girdled is now flowering where as a larger branch adjacent to the one I girdled is pushing new vegetative growth. This Kohala tree had already flowered earlier in the year and is holding a small amount of pea sized fruit. There is still the possibility that the branch that is currently pushing a vegetative flush will flower after it verges out.

Simon
(http://s12.postimg.org/ofxka4zrd/image.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/ofxka4zrd/)
Title: Re: Lychee grafted onto Longan?
Post by: Picko Jack on August 03, 2015, 08:09:06 AM
If this inter-species graft doing on one main branch of longan...(other brach were still longan) then graft take success and doing well, givin a good vegetative growth....says 1-2 years (to make sure the compatibility is not an issue)....so we have a cocktail tree with longan rootstock...how the lychee part will response of Chlorate application...say it by soil drench method. so the lychee part get chlorate effect by its interaction with longan rootstock only. i mean this "magic bullet" Chorate very effective for inducing longan flowering in ultra tropical region as south part of SE Asia like Java. meanwhile application on lychee failed completely. just wondering how it will take on longan roostcok-cocktail lychee tree
Title: Re: Lychee grafted onto Longan?
Post by: simon_grow on August 03, 2015, 08:58:29 AM
I suppose that is one of the things we may find out in the future although I have no ambitions of using chemicals to promote flowering in Longan nor Lychee. Even if the use of chlorate on the Longan rootstock does somehow catalyze flowering of the grafted Lychee, I do not see myself using this chemical for inducing flowering. I would rather girdle. I do not want to use unnecessary chemicals if I don't have to. Many of the Lychees and Longans in the market are sprayed with plant hormones to induce flowering or for more retention of fruit and I believe for larger size fruit. They are also often sprayed with insecticides and fungicides. I read an article about what was sprayed on Lychees and the permissible levels allowed by the inspectors and I was shocked at what was used on these Lychees from overseas that we feed to our families. This is just one of the reasons I grow my own and using chlorate does not fit into my grand scheme of things. This is my own personal opinion and I have nothing against people who use chemical insecticides, fungicides or hormones.

It would be very interesting to find out if chlorate will work or not on these multi species trees.

Simon
Title: Re: Lychee grafted onto Longan?
Post by: simon_grow on August 12, 2015, 09:38:40 PM
I know this is premature but I was super happy to see that there is a sign of life on my Kaimana Scion grafted onto my Kohala Longan that I grafted ten days ago. One of the leaf stubs turned brown under the parafilm and actually broke the parafilm so I decided to remove the little stub. When I removed the stub, I saw that there is a little green growth behind the removed stub.

I know this is too early to celebrate but it's definitely a good sign. There is a heat wave predicted for this weekend with predicted temps in the upper 90's so I hope this little growth will survive. I may erect some shade just to be safe.

Simon
(http://s12.postimg.org/8eb792b2h/image.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/8eb792b2h/)
Title: Re: Lychee grafted onto Longan?
Post by: fyliu on August 13, 2015, 01:24:03 AM
I plan on patenting my new clothes pin grafting technique, lol.
Haha, I thought you grafted watermelons. Didn't you use clips to hold them in place?
Title: Re: Lychee grafted onto Longan?
Post by: behlgarden on August 13, 2015, 11:09:04 AM
Nice Simon, keep eye on it. yes, intense heat work two ways, push growth and burn new growth. I would put the grafted pot in semi shade so it gets heat and high humidity without leaf burn.
Title: Re: Lychee grafted onto Longan?
Post by: simon_grow on August 13, 2015, 11:20:42 AM
Fang, I used grafting tape for my grafted watermelons but there are tubes I could have purchased and used.

Behl, this graft is actually on my in ground Kohala but I can put up some sort of paper shade to block the growth from direct sunlight. Anyone else have an update on their grafts?

Simon
Title: Re: Lychee grafted onto Longan?
Post by: socal10b on August 13, 2015, 01:07:00 PM
@Simmon, Xshen has a successful lychee graft leafed out on his longan tree, let me see if i can get him to post a pic of his graft :)
Title: Re: Lychee grafted onto Longan?
Post by: simon_grow on August 13, 2015, 04:16:08 PM
Ok, I see xshen posted on page 1 but it would be great to see the expanded growth. I think every variety that we have grafted has shown initial success. I'm now crossing my fingers for long term compatibility.

Simon
Title: Re: Lychee grafted onto Longan?
Post by: fruitlovers on August 13, 2015, 07:00:15 PM
On a side note, it appears that girdling may in fact help with flowering in Longan and possibly Lychee. This is a picture of the same in ground Kohala Longan. I girdled a branch in order to make an air layer and the branch I girdled is now flowering where as a larger branch adjacent to the one I girdled is pushing new vegetative growth. This Kohala tree had already flowered earlier in the year and is holding a small amount of pea sized fruit. There is still the possibility that the branch that is currently pushing a vegetative flush will flower after it verges out.

Simon
([url]http://s12.postimg.org/ofxka4zrd/image.jpg[/url]) ([url]http://postimg.org/image/ofxka4zrd/[/url])


Girdling definitely helps with flowering, under some circumstances, on lychees. There have been scientific studies proving that. I think same is also true with longans.
Title: Re: Lychee grafted onto Longan?
Post by: simon_grow on August 13, 2015, 08:24:27 PM
Thanks for the confirmation Oscar. There have been several people from this forum that have complained about established Lychee trees that are not bearing fruit. I believe they live in warmer parts so may not get as much chilling. I have advocated girdling in hopes that their tree will flower and hold fruit. I think that girdling trees may help low production trees like Sweetheart hold more fruit to maturity.

Oscar, have you tried to girdle your No Mai Chee or Kwa Luk? I'm very curious if it will help with fruiting on Lychee varieties that are infamous for alternate bearing and that are also known to require more cold stress. I think timing of the girdling will be very important. Since you have several varieties of Lychees, you can use the earliest bloomer as a signal to girdle your trees. It would be very exciting if you get some fruit!

Simon
Title: Re: Lychee grafted onto Longan?
Post by: xshen on August 14, 2015, 12:26:19 AM
The recent 100+ degree heat waves burned off some of the tender leaves.  The other graft defoliated but started to push a new set of leaves again.  I would put this inside the green house but it's jam packed! 

I am still skeptical as to whether they are compatible or not.  The growth rate do not seem all that fast. 

(https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5670/20531440236_52ce15c7a4_h.jpg)

(https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5675/19935060014_3492348b06_h.jpg)



On a side note, my chu leon longan grafts are flowering at this time of the year.  Its very odd.  Its not a coincidence either.  Both graft on separate branches are blooming at the same time.  The branches were not girdled.  Is it possible that this could this be a very late bloomer to extend the longan season?  Maybe also too good to be true.

(https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5636/20370948899_45132435e4_h.jpg)

(https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5688/20531407736_431f3b401a_h.jpg)

Title: Re: Lychee grafted onto Longan?
Post by: simon_grow on August 14, 2015, 12:57:48 AM
Thanks for the update xshen! That's definitely a real growth flush. Have you considered removing more Longan branches to redirect energy more towards your scions? If you do, I would wait till after the heat wave.

We may have to wait until after a couple flushes to determine if the Longan rootstock will impart any benefits onto the Lychee like increased wind or dessication tolerance.

Your Longan grafts may be flowering because the trees they were taken from could have been ready to flower. That would be awesome if you could get extended fruiting season with this new variety but there are other ways to extend the season.

I found that staggered pruning of my Longan caused a delay in the growth and maturation of the current flush which then caused a delay in panicle formation and fruit developement. Girdling can also cause a delayed bloom as I recently found out. My Longan had a partial bloom and set some fruit when I put on an air layer and in essence, I girdled the branch, a couple weeks later, the girdled branch was flowering  where as a nearby branch that wasn't girdled is vegging out.

Simon
Title: Re: Lychee grafted onto Longan?
Post by: fruitlovers on August 14, 2015, 01:07:39 AM
Thanks for the confirmation Oscar. There have been several people from this forum that have complained about established Lychee trees that are not bearing fruit. I believe they live in warmer parts so may not get as much chilling. I have advocated girdling in hopes that their tree will flower and hold fruit. I think that girdling trees may help low production trees like Sweetheart hold more fruit to maturity.

Oscar, have you tried to girdle your No Mai Chee or Kwa Luk? I'm very curious if it will help with fruiting on Lychee varieties that are infamous for alternate bearing and that are also known to require more cold stress. I think timing of the girdling will be very important. Since you have several varieties of Lychees, you can use the earliest bloomer as a signal to girdle your trees. It would be very exciting if you get some fruit!

Simon

Simon, i haven't tried girdling No Mai Tze or Kwa Luk. I doubt it would help. Girdling seems to help only in cases where you are close to achieving required temperatures and/or dry winter. But it's worth a try anyhow... nothing to loose. Thanks for the suggestion.
Title: Re: Lychee grafted onto Longan?
Post by: simon_grow on September 28, 2015, 05:55:25 PM
Just wanted to update that my Lychee grafted onto Longan has failed. The grafts calloused and healed beautifully but the buds started pushing when we got 103+ degree weather and the new growth shriveled up within two days.

I still have an approach graft of Lychee onto Longan but I think I will have better luck next year.

Simon
Title: Re: Lychee grafted onto Longan?
Post by: Don on September 28, 2015, 08:33:27 PM
Hi simongrow just reading the top post of yours about beneficial mychorizae innoculating. What do you inoculate with and what improvements do you see in plant growth characteristics? Very interested.
Thanks. Don
Title: Re: Lychee grafted onto Longan?
Post by: simon_grow on September 28, 2015, 09:56:43 PM
Hello Don,

I use Paul Stametes product called Mycogrow and I also use Plant Success. I met Paul Stametes in person at my previous company and he has a long history with fungi and is a very nice person. Due to a nondisclosure agreement I signed, I can't give much information about the product.

If you search online, there are pictures comparing growth rates, showing growth of both foliage and roots of plants inoculated and those that were not treated. Some of the comparisons for certain products can be deceptive because some in inoculants, like some of the products I use, have fertilizers incorporated into them, not that it's a bad thing.

The research out there shows that inoculants work for some plant species and not for others. Instead of looking for a product, hoping that one of the organisms will form a symbiotic relationship with your plants roots, it may be more beneficial to find a healthy, Lychee tree for example, and dig up some of the soil from under the drip line and using that to inoculate your trees.
Simon
Title: Re: Lychee grafted onto Longan?
Post by: Don on September 28, 2015, 10:18:03 PM
No worries, thanks for your help mate!
Don.
Title: Re: Lychee grafted onto Longan?
Post by: fruit4me on October 01, 2015, 02:43:48 PM
UPDATE on one of my Mauritius on longan graft. It's starting to push nicely. Im so excited!

([url]http://s28.postimg.org/lckwizax5/20150722_185250.jpg[/url]) ([url]http://postimg.org/image/lckwizax5/[/url])

Nothing since July
(http://s21.postimg.org/qdri455hv/20151001_113656.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/qdri455hv/)
Title: Re: Lychee grafted onto Longan?
Post by: simon_grow on October 01, 2015, 03:13:51 PM
Max, thanks for the update. I think it was untimely push of the growth flush that did mine in. I'm crossing my fingers for everyone that there will be no delayed graft incompatibility. I'll try again next year.

Simkn
Title: Re: Lychee grafted onto Longan?
Post by: simon_grow on November 27, 2015, 11:43:52 PM
Nice update Max, at least the growth hardened!

Here is an update of my Kaimana Lychee innarched onto my in ground Kohala Longan. I severed the Lychee from its roots about two weeks ago and the growth is still green so I'm skeptically optimistic. The callous tissue is very ugly, probably because I butchered the tree when innarching them together.

I will slowly remove more Longan branches to redirect energy towards the Lychee.

Simon
(http://s3.postimg.org/rfxgu329b/image.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/rfxgu329b/)

(http://s3.postimg.org/5fh4dgjlb/image.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/5fh4dgjlb/)

(http://s3.postimg.org/z648z84kv/image.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/z648z84kv/)
Title: Re: Lychee grafted onto Longan?
Post by: meristos on January 24, 2016, 01:20:28 PM
Hello, is your graft still doing good?
Title: Re: Lychee grafted onto Longan?
Post by: fruit4me on January 25, 2016, 12:19:19 AM
UPDATE on one of my Mauritius on longan graft. It's starting to push nicely. Im so excited!

([url]http://s28.postimg.org/lckwizax5/20150722_185250.jpg[/url]) ([url]http://postimg.org/image/lckwizax5/[/url])

Nothing since July
([url]http://s21.postimg.org/qdri455hv/20151001_113656.jpg[/url]) ([url]http://postimg.org/image/qdri455hv/[/url])


Stupid me, I accidentally pruned off my lychee graft when I was pruning my longan tree. Just when it was growing another flush too. Ouch!!!
Title: Re: Lychee grafted onto Longan?
Post by: simon_grow on January 25, 2016, 01:46:49 PM
The last leaf just turned brown. It was growing nicely for about two months but it did not like the cold weather and hail. The grafting cuts I made were really ugly so please don't let my failed attempt discourage others from trying.

Simon
(http://s10.postimg.org/ui48gjaid/image.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/ui48gjaid/)

(http://s10.postimg.org/irlplesc5/image.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/irlplesc5/)
Title: Re: Lychee grafted onto Longan?
Post by: meristos on January 26, 2016, 05:09:26 PM
Ok, will make a try shortly on very young plant, I'll let you know
Title: Re: Lychee grafted onto Longan?
Post by: behlgarden on January 27, 2016, 02:04:37 PM
one one lychee on longan survived winter freeze, however it has not grown much. hoping that it got enough chill hours for it to now thrive as temps. rise.
Title: Re: Lychee grafted onto Longan?
Post by: Rnguyen on April 10, 2016, 07:52:02 AM
Anyone else trying this? Any updates?
Title: Re: Lychee grafted onto Longan?
Post by: fruit4me on November 13, 2016, 07:52:21 PM
New experiment.  Heung Lai and Pot Po Heung Lychee both grafted 4/2016
Heung Lai
(http://i1356.photobucket.com/albums/q724/fruit4me/Heung%20Lai%20%20lychee%20grafted%20on%20longan_zpsxd9ogbfb.jpg) (http://s1356.photobucket.com/user/fruit4me/media/Heung%20Lai%20%20lychee%20grafted%20on%20longan_zpsxd9ogbfb.jpg.html)
Pot Po Heung
(http://i1356.photobucket.com/albums/q724/fruit4me/Pot%20Po%20Heung%20lychee%20grafted%20on%20longan_zpsbyhlpxen.jpg) (http://s1356.photobucket.com/user/fruit4me/media/Pot%20Po%20Heung%20lychee%20grafted%20on%20longan_zpsbyhlpxen.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Lychee grafted onto Longan?
Post by: druss on November 13, 2016, 08:16:12 PM
Is there any reason for the lychee longan combo? Would species of nephelium work just as well?
Title: Re: Lychee grafted onto Longan?
Post by: simon_grow on November 14, 2016, 08:27:58 AM
Longan are more adaptable and generally considered easier to grow here in SoCal where the pH of our soil is very high.

Simon
Title: Re: Lychee grafted onto Longan?
Post by: druss on November 14, 2016, 05:47:46 PM
Cool, approach geafting gives the highest chance yes?
Title: Re: Lychee grafted onto Longan?
Post by: simon_grow on November 14, 2016, 05:59:01 PM
For me personally, approach grafting gave me the best results but others have had success with cleft grafting. Dr Francis Z pointed me towards this article for grafting Lychee. https://www.ctahr.hawaii.edu/fb/lychee/lychee.htm (https://www.ctahr.hawaii.edu/fb/lychee/lychee.htm)

If you have an established Lychee tree, the grafting should be easier than grafting into an unestablished tree. Lychees go through periods of active growth where sap is flowing and branches are receptive to grafting attempts. By innarching or approach grafting, you keep the scion alive longer as it has its own root system and if you are lucky, you will hit one of these window periods of active growth and the union will callous and heal.

Simon
Title: Re: Lychee grafted onto Longan?
Post by: druss on November 14, 2016, 08:40:39 PM
Might try it, my soil is also full of limestone 
Title: Re: Lychee grafted onto Longan?
Post by: Bananaizme on April 05, 2017, 08:32:45 AM
   I realize that this is a older thread but it got me thinking , has any growers / experimenters tried to multi graft lychee trees ? I have about 7 or 8 varieties of lychee and was wondering if it would be possible to create a multiple grafted tree ?

 William
Title: Re: Lychee grafted onto Longan?
Post by: simon_grow on April 05, 2017, 09:28:52 AM
It should be possible but grafting Lychee is very difficult for me although Max and a couple others have had good success. What varieties do you have?

I've read that some Lychee varieties have different number of chromosomes so some grafts may not work is this regards.

Something that may help growers in SoCal is trying to graft Emperor Lychee scions onto Mauritius rootstock. Emperor can be very sensitive on its own roots. I have lots of small Lychee seedlings that I intend to approach graft together to create a multiple rootstock seedling Lychee. As some people are aware, Lychee seedlings grow very slow here in SoCal and as with mangos, small Lychee (air layers) will flower at under 1 foot due to cold stimuli.

I am still extremely interested if anyone still has a successful Lychee grafted onto Longan? If you do, it would be great if you can post an update.

Simon
Title: Re: Lychee grafted onto Longan?
Post by: fruit4me on April 05, 2017, 01:46:39 PM
Lychee on Longan graft update. Heung Lai is flowering and Pot Po Hueng still looks the same.
(https://s23.postimg.org/odwmoy7yv/IMG_0088.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/odwmoy7yv/)

(https://s23.postimg.org/xa7esvyl3/IMG_0089.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/xa7esvyl3/)

Both grafts are about a year old now. I'm keeping my fingers crossed for some fruits .

Max
Title: Re: Lychee grafted onto Longan?
Post by: behlgarden on April 05, 2017, 03:23:43 PM
its waste of time I think. I tried a lot, it took, was alive for 12 months, grew a little, then died. I believe its conventional wisdom to do airlayers only.
Title: Re: Lychee grafted onto Longan?
Post by: simon_grow on April 05, 2017, 04:01:17 PM
If we don't see accelerated growth, I would agree with Behlgarden. We should all be proud that we experimented in an attempt to push the boundaries and test the limits of our imagination and our skills as tropical fruit growers. Without pushing the envelope, we would still be growing only Mauritius and Brewster Lychees or even worse, Tommy Atkins Mangos.

Lychees are difficult to graft for some people, me, so there is a point where one has to ask if the effort is worth the reward. For a Lychee lover, a little more effort may be worth the reward.

Simon
Title: Re: Lychee grafted onto Longan?
Post by: Bananaizme on April 05, 2017, 05:57:18 PM
   Simon

 I'm thinking that in order to create a multi grafted tree , using the approach graft method might be best . However based on your comments about incompatibility, the resulting tree may not end up with as many varieties as one desires 😊
Title: Re: Lychee grafted onto Longan?
Post by: simon_grow on April 05, 2017, 06:18:22 PM
My primary objective with Lychee is to increase the rate of growth so that we can obtain a large, fruiting size tree in as short of a time as possible. One major roadblock is the Lychee roots sensitivity to soil, pH, especially but salinity as well. Here in our high pH soil, our trees require regular supplementation with micronutrients, I recommend foliar feeding to avoid soil pH issues.

Just to be clear, my current experiments are with innarching young seedlings to give them multiple rootstocks without mature scions so that all energy is focused on vegetative groeth and not flowers. When the multiple rootstock seedling gets slightly more mature, I will have to approach graft it with a named variety which unfortunately will mean it will flower soon after grafting but at least it will have multiple rootstocks instead of air layer type roots. The multiple tap roots may or may not be beneficial.

Simon
Title: Re: Lychee grafted onto Longan?
Post by: Bananaizme on April 05, 2017, 07:58:37 PM
   Simon

I had always heard that seedling lychees grew very slowly and because their so sensitive to fertilizer burn you can't really push them , with that being said patrons on this board have told me that osmocote won't burn them. I haven't used it on my lychees yet . I have heard that fish emulsion is very good for lychees.How long does it usually take for you before your seedlings are  ready to graft ?  I don't really have any ph issues here. I make my own compost which really helps with the overall healthiness of my trees.

William
Title: Re: Lychee grafted onto Longan?
Post by: simon_grow on April 05, 2017, 09:11:47 PM
Sorry William, I completely missed your earlier question. Yes, I personally feel that approach graft or innarching is the best way to create a multigraft Lychee tree. I would not worry too much about chromosome incompatibility because it appears that the grafts by some of the more experienced Lychee grafters like Max shows that so far at least, there are no incompatibility issues. I urge everyone to try so that we can gather more data.

Yes, Lychee seedlings grow very slowly but the seedlings with a tap root for some strange reason seem to be more adaptable to adverse conditions once they get past about the 2-5 true leaf stage. This is similar to Mango(most are seedlings)  http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=1835.0 (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=1835.0)
http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=21350.0 (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=21350.0)
and Avocado http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=12844.0 (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=12844.0)
 
Not sure exactly why and I don't have any scientific data but anecdotal evidence and reports seem to show that seedling trees do really well and grow extremely large and fruitful. Maybe it's because they don't have to expend as much energy on producing flowers and fruit and can thus use these additional resources to ward off diseases and spread its tap root far enough to find whatever nutrient it needs more of.

Lychee can be grafted young and I'm starting to find out that many if not most fruit species are highly susceptible to grafting at the epicotyl stage when the plant tissues are not fully differentiated. Once the epicotyl leaves are gone, young seedlings are still very open to grafting when their trunks are in the green wood stage. It is in the brown wood stage where grafting becomes more difficult and a grafted usually moves up the canopy to find younger green wood to graft.

By keeping careful records of your trees and neighboring trees, you can track when your tree is in an active stage of growth where cleft and other non approach type grafting may be successful. This is extremely important because we can often get scion material shipped to us but they are lacking roots.

In this experiment here, I was somewhat successful with approach grafting a very young Lychee untill an animal knocked over the pots and severed the connection. http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17204.0 (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=17204.0)

Simon
Title: Re: Lychee grafted onto Longan?
Post by: fruit4me on June 28, 2017, 11:39:55 AM
Updating progress for heung lai lychee. Over a foot of growth and holding onto thumb size fruits this year. I'm so so so excited!!!!!

(https://s9.postimg.org/7074vdouz/IMG_1354.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/7074vdouz/)

(https://s9.postimg.org/jsv8vb0gr/IMG_1355.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/jsv8vb0gr/)
Title: Re: Lychee grafted onto Longan?
Post by: simon_grow on June 28, 2017, 02:11:25 PM
Max, amazing results! Please keep us updated. I'm especially interested in what you think about the fruit. It looks like you have no leaf burn on your new growth. Awesome!!!

Simon
Title: Re: Lychee grafted onto Longan?
Post by: fruit4me on August 11, 2017, 12:31:48 AM
I have successfully fruited Huang Lai lychees from my longan tree. My proudest achievement in the gardening world. Fruit was so so so good. Flesh was juicy soft and melting sweet with very good aroma.  Also, majority of the seeds were tiny. No rag and tanium after taste like some other lychees.
(https://s28.postimg.org/q8zhewubd/IMG_0203.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/q8zhewubd/)

(https://s28.postimg.org/hrzz3zpmh/IMG_0204.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/hrzz3zpmh/)

(https://s28.postimg.org/bgurnkoe1/IMG_0205.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/bgurnkoe1/)

(https://s28.postimg.org/ojqe6uem1/IMG_0206.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/ojqe6uem1/)

(https://s28.postimg.org/uzzcwxn5l/IMG_0207.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/uzzcwxn5l/)

(https://s28.postimg.org/55pk75n5l/IMG_0208.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/55pk75n5l/)


(https://s28.postimg.org/r7fuh77nd/IMG_0209.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/r7fuh77nd/)

(https://s28.postimg.org/tnhnv1pq1/IMG_0210.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/tnhnv1pq1/)
Title: Re: Lychee grafted onto Longan?
Post by: fruit4me on August 11, 2017, 12:37:00 AM
(https://s27.postimg.org/kn17geirz/IMG_0211.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/kn17geirz/)

(https://s27.postimg.org/nwfmmv6vj/IMG_0212.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/nwfmmv6vj/)

(https://s27.postimg.org/u8urwp9xr/IMG_0213.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/u8urwp9xr/)

(https://s27.postimg.org/6kfa1fde7/IMG_0214.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/6kfa1fde7/)
Title: Re: Lychee grafted onto Longan?
Post by: boxturtle on August 11, 2017, 01:25:42 AM
wow impressive!
Title: Re: Lychee grafted onto Longan?
Post by: simon_grow on August 11, 2017, 02:29:55 AM
Max, that is awesome! I'm glad the experiment worked. Now let's see if we notice any improved growth with this Longan rootstock or if there are other advantages or disadvantages. I'm still worried about delayed graft incompatibility but if it throws another vegetative growth after you harvested these fruit, that will be a very positive sign! That's just amazing!

Simon
Title: Re: Lychee grafted onto Longan?
Post by: fyliu on August 11, 2017, 02:12:39 PM
great work! I your friend post some of these photos on FB too.
Title: Re: Lychee grafted onto Longan?
Post by: Bush2Beach on August 12, 2017, 04:49:26 PM
Good work. Inspiration for others to give it a try.
Title: Re: Lychee grafted onto Longan?
Post by: Zarafet on August 12, 2017, 05:15:12 PM
That's Amazing Max, when I saw it,  it looked super healthy.
Title: Re: Lychee grafted onto Longan?
Post by: xshen on August 17, 2017, 02:23:26 PM
Can anyone spot what's wrong with these longan leaves??

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4354/36569501625_6eebfb071b_k.jpg)
Title: Re: Lychee grafted onto Longan?
Post by: simon_grow on February 11, 2018, 04:53:30 PM
I have successfully fruited Huang Lai lychees from my longan tree. My proudest achievement in the gardening world. Fruit was so so so good. Flesh was juicy soft and melting sweet with very good aroma.  Also, majority of the seeds were tiny. No rag and tanium after taste like some other lychees.
(https://s28.postimg.org/q8zhewubd/IMG_0203.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/q8zhewubd/)

(https://s28.postimg.org/hrzz3zpmh/IMG_0204.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/hrzz3zpmh/)

(https://s28.postimg.org/bgurnkoe1/IMG_0205.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/bgurnkoe1/)

(https://s28.postimg.org/ojqe6uem1/IMG_0206.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/ojqe6uem1/)

(https://s28.postimg.org/uzzcwxn5l/IMG_0207.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/uzzcwxn5l/)

(https://s28.postimg.org/55pk75n5l/IMG_0208.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/55pk75n5l/)


(https://s28.postimg.org/r7fuh77nd/IMG_0209.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/r7fuh77nd/)

(https://s28.postimg.org/tnhnv1pq1/IMG_0210.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/tnhnv1pq1/)

Hey Max, how is your Heurng Lai Lychee grafted onto Longan doing? Also I was wondering if you know what variety is the rootstock Longan?

Anyone else have a successful graft of Lychee onto Longan?

Simon
Title: Re: Lychee grafted onto Longan?
Post by: nelesedulis on February 11, 2018, 06:42:20 PM
Hi,

Great experience.

I would like information and the reverse is possible?

I have adult lychee trees, but eventually, they suffer attack from the erinose mite, I wanted to use the adult and strong lychee trees to graft longans is this possible?
Title: Re: Lychee grafted onto Longan?
Post by: Tony714 on February 12, 2018, 12:06:58 PM
Here you go. I tried couple weeks ago and crossing my fingers.  My in law airlayed Longan tree and gave it to us.  Lychee is from my brother.  I dont have their names.  Will see.



(https://s18.postimg.org/48t8b0ygl/20170829_173329.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/48t8b0ygl/)


(https://s18.postimg.org/48t8b28r9/20180207_064442.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/48t8b28r9/)

Title: Re: Lychee grafted onto Longan?
Post by: fruit4me on February 15, 2018, 04:04:40 PM
2018 updates, not much happening yet. Both grafts are still looking very healthy. The longan tree is active now, so should see some action soon. Sorry, donít exactly what cultivar the longan rootstock is. But, guessing a kohala.
Heung Lai
(https://s14.postimg.org/xdylo38gt/61_DE523_B-78_C7-4_AE4-9_DC9-275_A6197_D285.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/xdylo38gt/)
Heung Lai
(https://s14.postimg.org/m2vxz8965/022_F26_CD-9057-495_A-9034-36_D69_BB4530_F.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/m2vxz8965/)
Heung Lai(left) Pot Po Heung(right)
(https://s14.postimg.org/76xernd71/19_F91_B5_A-48_F1-4_BAD-8_DBC-7_D5646_E42454.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/76xernd71/)

Pot Po Heung
(https://s14.postimg.org/64n89423h/3_A757612-8_E5_F-4454-_AA27-7_F96_F26824_D0.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/64n89423h/)
Title: Re: Lychee grafted onto Longan?
Post by: simon_grow on February 15, 2018, 05:44:25 PM
Hey Max, thanks for the update! Iím about to innarch Emperor Lychee onto Lychee seedling rootstock to see if I can increase its growth rate and adapt better to our soil conditions. With your successful Lychee onto Longan grafts, it gives me hope it is possible. I am still a bit worried about long term graft incompatibility but each year that your grafts stays alive gives me that much more hope. Lychees hate my heavy clay soil but Longan is growing fine in it. Thanks again for the update Max.

Simon