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Author Topic: New Zill mangoes -- The monoembryonic vs polyembryonic breakdown  (Read 12967 times)

zands

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I would like to know what new Zills are poly-embryonic especially the Sweet Tart?
How about a
mono
vs
poly
breakdown
on the new Zill mangoes which will be useful to many who want to plant seeds. Just to plant seeds/experiment and due to no access to the grafted trees

I'll start with Orange Sherbet which is poly-embryonic. Same w Lemon Zesty

bsbullie

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Re: New Zill mangoes -- The monoembryonic vs polyembryonic breakdown
« Reply #1 on: August 05, 2014, 07:54:56 AM »
Sweet Tart is mono.  The Coconut Cream seeds I have seen germinate have been coming up poly, which is odd as its parents are both mono.

If you hsve plenty of time and space and want to pkant seeds for experiments or just for shits and giggles,  then great but otherwise why are people planting seeds?  With the time, effort  and aforementioned space, just buy grafted trees.  They are available and while they may cost more for some, it will still save monetarily in the long run.
- Rob

wslau

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Re: New Zill mangoes -- The monoembryonic vs polyembryonic breakdown
« Reply #2 on: August 05, 2014, 11:07:41 AM »
The Coconut Cream seeds I have seen germinate have been coming up poly, which is odd as its parents are both mono.


Interesting...this is the first that I have heard that Coconut Cream is poly.  Thanks for sharing the info.
Genetics is a weird thing... i.e. Duncan being mono while having a poly parent (NDM).
Warren

bsbullie

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Re: New Zill mangoes -- The monoembryonic vs polyembryonic breakdown
« Reply #3 on: August 05, 2014, 11:17:33 AM »
The Coconut Cream seeds I have seen germinate have been coming up poly, which is odd as its parents are both mono.



Interesting...this is the first that I have heard that Coconut Cream is poly.  Thanks for sharing the info.
Genetics is a weird thing... i.e. Duncan being mono while having a poly parent (NDM).


According to the paper written by David Sturrock, Duncan's parents were Edward x Pico No. 18 (a Philippine).

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&frm=1&source=web&cd=8&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CGUQFjAH&url=http%3A%2F%2Ffshs.org%2Fproceedings-o%2F1969-vol-82%2F318-321%2520(STURROCK).pdf&ei=T_TgU5XJNJC1yATK0YDQDg&usg=AFQjCNEiu3TpWe1SENjFrZisp9b8TxSpEQ&sig2=t9VHzVZ4dTygpNpP3P7M8g&bvm=bv.72197243,d.aWw
- Rob

DurianLover

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Re: New Zill mangoes -- The monoembryonic vs polyembryonic breakdown
« Reply #4 on: August 05, 2014, 11:40:20 AM »
Probably Zands started this thread for people in other countries. Having so many choices in S. FL its easy to forget about less fortunate.

Fruit Punch? That's the only one I want to know.

I think wslau takes his info from Wiki. I recently looked up this myself. My interest peaked when I thought NDM and Duncan are the only two FL mangoes with gelatinous texture, although gelatinous on both mangoes isn't exactly the same.
Here is from wiki: "The original tree was grown from a seed planted in 1956 by David Sturrock of West Palm Beach, Florida. Sturrock had written in 1969 that it had been a cross of Edward and Pico,[1] but a 2005 pedigree analysis indicated that Nam Doc Mai was the likely parent.[2] This explanation is challenging because Nam Doc Mai was not introduced into Florida until the 1970s, and that Duncan is monoembryonic while Nam Doc Mai is polyembryonic"
« Last Edit: August 05, 2014, 11:51:12 AM by DurianLover »

ricshaw

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Re: New Zill mangoes -- The monoembryonic vs polyembryonic breakdown
« Reply #5 on: August 05, 2014, 11:44:43 AM »
If you hsve plenty of time and space and want to pkant seeds for experiments or just for shits and giggles,  then great but otherwise why are people planting seeds?  With the time, effort  and aforementioned space, just buy grafted trees.  They are available and while they may cost more for some, it will still save monetarily in the long run.

I don't get it ether unless somebody plants hundreds of seeds.

bsbullie

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Re: New Zill mangoes -- The monoembryonic vs polyembryonic breakdown
« Reply #6 on: August 05, 2014, 12:59:07 PM »
Probably Zands started this thread for people in other countries. Having so many choices in S. FL its easy to forget about less fortunate.

Fruit Punch? That's the only one I want to know.

I think wslau takes his info from Wiki. I recently looked up this myself. My interest peaked when I thought NDM and Duncan are the only two FL mangoes with gelatinous texture, although gelatinous on both mangoes isn't exactly the same.
Here is from wiki: "The original tree was grown from a seed planted in 1956 by David Sturrock of West Palm Beach, Florida. Sturrock had written in 1969 that it had been a cross of Edward and Pico,[1] but a 2005 pedigree analysis indicated that Nam Doc Mai was the likely parent.[2] This explanation is challenging because Nam Doc Mai was not introduced into Florida until the 1970s, and that Duncan is monoembryonic while Nam Doc Mai is polyembryonic"

I believe from the few I have seen, it is mono.
- Rob

bsbullie

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Re: New Zill mangoes -- The monoembryonic vs polyembryonic breakdown
« Reply #7 on: August 05, 2014, 01:02:39 PM »
Probably Zands started this thread for people in other countries. Having so many choices in S. FL its easy to forget about less fortunate.

Fruit Punch? That's the only one I want to know.

I think wslau takes his info from Wiki. I recently looked up this myself. My interest peaked when I thought NDM and Duncan are the only two FL mangoes with gelatinous texture, although gelatinous on both mangoes isn't exactly the same.
Here is from wiki: "The original tree was grown from a seed planted in 1956 by David Sturrock of West Palm Beach, Florida. Sturrock had written in 1969 that it had been a cross of Edward and Pico,[1] but a 2005 pedigree analysis indicated that Nam Doc Mai was the likely parent.[2] This explanation is challenging because Nam Doc Mai was not introduced into Florida until the 1970s, and that Duncan is monoembryonic while Nam Doc Mai is polyembryonic"


The key word is "likely" in the phrase, "but a 2005 pedigree analysis indicated that Nam Doc Mai was the likely parent".  I would not necessarily heed creedance to any of that 2005 analysis.  I am going to tend to stick with what David Sturrock wrote until proven otherwise.  I would like to see someone/someplace like Fairchild invest in and have DNA analysis performed on all of these to try and show true parentage.
- Rob

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Re: New Zill mangoes -- The monoembryonic vs polyembryonic breakdown
« Reply #8 on: August 05, 2014, 02:26:11 PM »
That USDA analysis relied on a flawed/out-dated grove map and wound up producing some bad results. Duncan absolutely does not have NDM in its parentage.

Fairchild isn't even using the USDA for the genetic analysis on their new crosses; they're outsourcing it to the Israelis.

bsbullie

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Re: New Zill mangoes -- The monoembryonic vs polyembryonic breakdown
« Reply #9 on: August 05, 2014, 02:41:22 PM »
That USDA analysis relied on a flawed/out-dated grove map and wound up producing some bad results. Duncan absolutely does not have NDM in its parentage.

Fairchild isn't even using the USDA for the genetic analysis on their new crosses; they're outsourcing it to the Israelis.

Are you confident, as I would expect it to be correct, at the accuracy of David's publishing in it being an Edward x Pico?
- Rob

wslau

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Re: New Zill mangoes -- The monoembryonic vs polyembryonic breakdown
« Reply #10 on: August 05, 2014, 02:46:15 PM »
I did get my info from the 2005 FL pedigree analysis chart, NOT wiki.
Well, its good to know that the pedigree analysis had some flaws and thus has to be carefully applied.

But in any case, I'm still intrigued by Rob's observation on a poly coconut cream.
Warren

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Re: New Zill mangoes -- The monoembryonic vs polyembryonic breakdown
« Reply #11 on: August 05, 2014, 03:17:47 PM »
Yeah!

CC is Poly!!!!!!


Gary

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Re: New Zill mangoes -- The monoembryonic vs polyembryonic breakdown
« Reply #12 on: August 05, 2014, 06:00:35 PM »
I planted my FL seeds today (hooray!) and it appears that ZINC is poly.  Not the usual SE Asian poly look but it looked segmented to me.  Piņa Colada also if I recall. 

bsbullie

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Re: New Zill mangoes -- The monoembryonic vs polyembryonic breakdown
« Reply #13 on: August 05, 2014, 06:22:20 PM »
I planted my FL seeds today (hooray!) and it appears that ZINC is poly.  Not the usual SE Asian poly look but it looked segmented to me.  Piņa Colada also if I recall.

ZINC is mono.
- Rob

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Re: New Zill mangoes -- The monoembryonic vs polyembryonic breakdown
« Reply #14 on: August 09, 2014, 08:22:17 PM »
Sweet tart is poly


Future

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Re: New Zill mangoes -- The monoembryonic vs polyembryonic breakdown
« Reply #15 on: August 09, 2014, 09:19:13 PM »
Sweet tart is poly



This is good to know. Thanks.

JF

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Re: New Zill mangoes -- The monoembryonic vs polyembryonic breakdown
« Reply #16 on: August 09, 2014, 10:35:10 PM »
LZ is mono




simon_grow

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Re: New Zill mangoes -- The monoembryonic vs polyembryonic breakdown
« Reply #17 on: August 10, 2014, 02:01:50 PM »
JF, are you pulling our legs? My LZ has at least two sprouts coming out.

Simon


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Re: New Zill mangoes -- The monoembryonic vs polyembryonic breakdown
« Reply #18 on: August 10, 2014, 03:03:03 PM »
Wouldn't looking at the seed give a pretty good idea if it's poly? If you see more than 2 patches or more than 1 pink dot...

simon_grow

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Re: New Zill mangoes -- The monoembryonic vs polyembryonic breakdown
« Reply #19 on: August 10, 2014, 05:55:07 PM »
Hey Fang,

That is a good idea but I have seen Kent's with multiple sections in the seed. Come to think of it, I believe I've seen multiple sprouts from Kent's as well. The mystery deepens.

Simon

JF

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Re: New Zill mangoes -- The monoembryonic vs polyembryonic breakdown
« Reply #20 on: August 10, 2014, 05:59:19 PM »
JF, are you pulling our legs? My LZ has at least two sprouts coming out.

Simon



Nope, that's a Florida seed from our friend Zands. The word from the Fairchild camp.... it's monoembryonic

Future

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Re: New Zill mangoes -- The monoembryonic vs polyembryonic breakdown
« Reply #21 on: August 10, 2014, 10:17:22 PM »
JF, are you pulling our legs? My LZ has at least two sprouts coming out.

Simon



I was thinking the same thing. I have planted so many seeds lady week that my memory may be hazy but I am one LZ is poly camp...for now.

simon_grow

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Re: New Zill mangoes -- The monoembryonic vs polyembryonic breakdown
« Reply #22 on: August 11, 2014, 12:59:27 AM »
I just dumped out my LZ seed and there are definitely two sprouts coming out. Perhaps they are both from sexual reproduction? Each sprout appears to be attached to half of the cotyledon. One sprout for each half of the seed. Please see my Lemon Zest Seedling Project post for pictures.
Simon

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Re: New Zill mangoes -- The monoembryonic vs polyembryonic breakdown
« Reply #23 on: August 11, 2014, 08:40:42 PM »
I grow mangos from seed. I live in zone 9. A serious freeze kills the tree down to the graft, leaving me with root stock only. The seedlings will come back.
Erica
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Venus, FL

zands

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Re: New Zill mangoes -- The monoembryonic vs polyembryonic breakdown
« Reply #24 on: August 11, 2014, 10:32:02 PM »
I just dumped out my LZ seed and there are definitely two sprouts coming out. Perhaps they are both from sexual reproduction? Each sprout appears to be attached to half of the cotyledon. One sprout for each half of the seed. Please see my Lemon Zest Seedling Project post for pictures.
Simon

I have said it before......
I think some of these new Zills are mono-poly hybrids that can go either way within a given variety. Such as LZ for example. Some LZ seeds will sprout mono and some sprout poly. Or like what you have

 

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