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Author Topic: New Zill mangoes -- The monoembryonic vs polyembryonic breakdown  (Read 12860 times)

bsbullie

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Re: New Zill mangoes -- The monoembryonic vs polyembryonic breakdown
« Reply #25 on: August 12, 2014, 07:12:34 AM »
Is anybody here positive that PPK is poly?  From what I understand,  all his trials were done with mono varieties.
- Rob

simon_grow

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Re: New Zill mangoes -- The monoembryonic vs polyembryonic breakdown
« Reply #26 on: August 12, 2014, 08:25:51 AM »
Thanks for the information Zands, that would explain why some people are getting single sprouts and yet others are getting multiple sprouts.

Rob, I wonder if PPK is really poly? With the great following of PPK mango lovers out there, I would think some of us mangoholics would have planted some seeds of this variety.

Simon

bsbullie

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Re: New Zill mangoes -- The monoembryonic vs polyembryonic breakdown
« Reply #27 on: August 12, 2014, 10:13:50 AM »
I have seen multiple shoots on mono seeds.   That doesnt mean its poly.  You have to look at ghe shoot to determine if its a clonal shoot or sexually produced.
- Rob

zands

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Re: New Zill mangoes -- The monoembryonic vs polyembryonic breakdown
« Reply #28 on: August 12, 2014, 11:50:48 AM »
Thanks for the information Zands, that would explain why some people are getting single sprouts and yet others are getting multiple sprouts.

Rob, I wonder if PPK is really poly? With the great following of PPK mango lovers out there, I would think some of us mangoholics would have planted some seeds of this variety.

Simon

PPK is a SE Asian mango so it should be poly. I see no reason why not. The LZ seed is elongated like an NDM seed but fatter. Elongated seed= poly indication. Or poly some of the time at least for LZ.

bsbullie

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Re: New Zill mangoes -- The monoembryonic vs polyembryonic breakdown
« Reply #29 on: August 12, 2014, 01:32:12 PM »
Thanks for the information Zands, that would explain why some people are getting single sprouts and yet others are getting multiple sprouts.

Rob, I wonder if PPK is really poly? With the great following of PPK mango lovers out there, I would think some of us mangoholics would have planted some seeds of this variety.

Simon

PPK is a SE Asian mango so it should be poly. I see no reason why not. The LZ seed is elongated like an NDM seed but fatter. Elongated seed= poly indication. Or poly some of the time at least for LZ.

Mahachanok is mono...there goes your SE Asian/elongated seed theory.

I dont think there is a "poly some of the time"...its either mono or poly.
- Rob

Guanabanus

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Re: New Zill mangoes -- The monoembryonic vs polyembryonic breakdown
« Reply #30 on: August 12, 2014, 04:13:46 PM »
Each sexually-produced embryo is a new variety, including in the characteristic of mono versus poly, but this won't be expressed until that plant becomes an adult and produces seeds of its own.   One wouldn't expect any observable effect of changing from mono to poly or vice versa in the seed that the embryo was formed in, as the pollen grain that fertilized the ovule would not be expected to affect any adjoining clonal embryos.

So I'm with BSBullie, not imagining how one tree could produce some poly seeds and some mono seeds.
Har

Future

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Re: New Zill mangoes -- The monoembryonic vs polyembryonic breakdown
« Reply #31 on: August 14, 2014, 11:41:17 AM »
Thanks for the information Zands, that would explain why some people are getting single sprouts and yet others are getting multiple sprouts.

Rob, I wonder if PPK is really poly? With the great following of PPK mango lovers out there, I would think some of us mangoholics would have planted some seeds of this variety.

Simon

PPK is a SE Asian mango so it should be poly. I see no reason why not. The LZ seed is elongated like an NDM seed but fatter. Elongated seed= poly indication. Or poly some of the time at least for LZ.

Mahachanok is mono...there goes your SE Asian/elongated seed theory.

I dont think there is a "poly some of the time"...its either mono or poly.

Indeed there are some rare SE Asian monos and also some Indian polys.  Few and far between though.

MangoFang

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Re: New Zill mangoes -- The monoembryonic vs polyembryonic breakdown
« Reply #32 on: August 14, 2014, 03:18:14 PM »
What's the word on Pina Colada - Polly want a cracker?????
Or mono y mono.....


Gary

bsbullie

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Re: New Zill mangoes -- The monoembryonic vs polyembryonic breakdown
« Reply #33 on: August 14, 2014, 03:41:02 PM »
What's the word on Pina Colada - Polly want a cracker?????
Or mono y mono.....


Gary

A fu fu drink made with rum, pineapple juice and cream of coconut.  Also a song sung by Rupert Holmes.
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MangoFang

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Re: New Zill mangoes -- The monoembryonic vs polyembryonic breakdown
« Reply #34 on: August 14, 2014, 04:22:54 PM »
thanks, Mr. Margaritaville!

 ;D

MangoFang

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Re: New Zill mangoes -- The monoembryonic vs polyembryonic breakdown
« Reply #35 on: August 14, 2014, 06:37:27 PM »
Does a picture have any answers?  On theright, an LZ seed,
on the left, a Pina Colada seed.  So....is it those striations/sections
at the northern tip of the seed that will tell you if it's a poly or not? 
If so, then the PC looks like it might be poly too......

Gary

(PS - sorry about the mediocre pic quality)






Future

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Re: New Zill mangoes -- The monoembryonic vs polyembryonic breakdown
« Reply #36 on: August 14, 2014, 09:03:46 PM »
Does a picture have any answers?  On theright, an LZ seed,
on the left, a Pina Colada seed.  So....is it those striations/sections
at the northern tip of the seed that will tell you if it's a poly or not? 
If so, then the PC looks like it might be poly too......

Gary

(PS - sorry about the mediocre pic quality)







Not the best pic but you can see the segments in the LZ that say poly.

MangoFang

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Re: New Zill mangoes -- The monoembryonic vs polyembryonic breakdown
« Reply #37 on: August 15, 2014, 02:03:03 PM »
...and Future - what about the smaller pina colada seed?
Poly?


G

Future

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Re: New Zill mangoes -- The monoembryonic vs polyembryonic breakdown
« Reply #38 on: August 15, 2014, 04:36:43 PM »
...and Future - what about the smaller pina colada seed?
Poly?


G

That is less clear in the photo but I know it is poly as I have several I planted recently.

alexO

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Re: New Zill mangoes -- The monoembryonic vs polyembryonic breakdown
« Reply #39 on: August 15, 2014, 04:43:07 PM »
This is a seed from my one Coconut Cream mango is it poly?







simon_grow

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Re: New Zill mangoes -- The monoembryonic vs polyembryonic breakdown
« Reply #40 on: August 15, 2014, 07:27:42 PM »
Each sexually-produced embryo is a new variety, including in the characteristic of mono versus poly, but this won't be expressed until that plant becomes an adult and produces seeds of its own.   One wouldn't expect any observable effect of changing from mono to poly or vice versa in the seed that the embryo was formed in, as the pollen grain that fertilized the ovule would not be expected to affect any adjoining clonal embryos.

So I'm with BSBullie, not imagining how one tree could produce some poly seeds and some mono seeds.

Hey Guanabanna,

Is it possible or common for a mango to have two sexually produced embryos in the same seed or can I assume there is a good likelihood that one of my Lemon Zest seedlings is a clone. My Lemon Zest seed has two sprouts coming out of the seed and each seedling appears to be attached to each half of the seed.

Simon

MangoFang

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Re: New Zill mangoes -- The monoembryonic vs polyembryonic breakdown
« Reply #41 on: August 15, 2014, 08:06:42 PM »
Hey Alexo - yeah, I think that's what all those sections are -
a true poly-anna of the mango kingdom....

gary

bsbullie

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Re: New Zill mangoes -- The monoembryonic vs polyembryonic breakdown
« Reply #42 on: August 15, 2014, 08:45:38 PM »
Read back through, not sure where I posted but I have seen coconut cream be poly.
- Rob

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Re: New Zill mangoes -- The monoembryonic vs polyembryonic breakdown
« Reply #43 on: August 15, 2014, 11:14:18 PM »
It is perhaps possible that an embryo could be accidentally split into identical twins.  Maybe some other possibility?
Har

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Re: New Zill mangoes -- The monoembryonic vs polyembryonic breakdown
« Reply #44 on: August 16, 2014, 08:02:14 PM »
Pina Colada appears to be poly as well.

edit, just saw mention above.

Future

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Re: New Zill mangoes -- The monoembryonic vs polyembryonic breakdown
« Reply #45 on: September 13, 2014, 08:26:24 PM »
Taralay appears to be mono although I have a seedling with 5 sprouts close inspection shows them all from the same base, single root....perhaps poly but separated too late?
« Last Edit: September 13, 2014, 08:29:49 PM by Future »

simon_grow

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Re: New Zill mangoes -- The monoembryonic vs polyembryonic breakdown
« Reply #46 on: July 22, 2016, 03:06:07 AM »
Sweet Tart, Lemon Zest and Coconut Cream appear to be poly from what I have seen.

Just wondering if anyone has planted out any seeds from a Zill poly mango and gotten any fruit yet?

Simon

simon_grow

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Re: New Zill mangoes -- The monoembryonic vs polyembryonic breakdown
« Reply #47 on: July 22, 2016, 05:08:37 PM »
Sweet Tart

Lemon Zest


Coconut Cream



simon_grow

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Re: New Zill mangoes -- The monoembryonic vs polyembryonic breakdown
« Reply #48 on: July 22, 2016, 06:30:01 PM »
For those living in colder climates or where access to seeds is the only source of plant material, poly seeds may be the way to go.

I recommend planting your poly seeds and keeping all sprouts and raising your tree as a multi trunked tree growing in close proximity. If they twist around each other and autograft, let them be. By keeping all sprouts, we avoid the entire confusing issue of which sprout is the clone. Stakeholders on both sides of the arguements have presented conflicting information and I have come to the conclusion that genetic markers are probably the only reliable 100% guaranteed way of determining which is the actual clone.

For the backyard grower, anything less than 100% accuracy is a waste of time in my opinion if you are after an actual clone of the original tree as you don't want to waste time if you selected the wrong seedling. With the technique of keeping all clones, you must ensure that you have at least two sprouts coming from different segments of the seed.

If two or more sprouts come out of the same section of seed, there is a possibility they are simply multiple shoots from the same seed.

In colder climates, planting poly seedlings may have the added advantage that it will not likely flower in the first couple years. This is a huge benefit for those of us wanting a larger tree that is more established before it begins to flower and fruit.

I currently have projects going for LZ, Sweet Tart and Coconut Cream. I prefer these ultra sweet varieties because I feel that even if they are not grown in ideal condition such as not full sun, poor nutrition, etc..., even if they do not reach their full potential of 25%Brix or higher, I would still be happy with their flavor at 20% Brix.

Simon

Future

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Re: New Zill mangoes -- The monoembryonic vs polyembryonic breakdown
« Reply #49 on: July 22, 2016, 07:16:57 PM »
It is not of true Zill origin but I noticed some segmentation this month on the Guava mango.  But not the usual poly look.  Any one else? 

Speaking to guanabanas he said look for the one shoot with different traits than all others.  It could be leaf shape, pattern, color etc.

 

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