Shocking! Watch for yourself

[simon_grow]

http://www.facebook.com/seen.everything/videos/1012726032165267/?hc_ref=ART7HC2oppWTc1VWyTLwXOXklt_RmlCQWB9cjbeM6TDsvlLfSq2_Id_EaREe2lQqcEg

Oscar, thanks for sharing that video, it's hilarious!

Simon

[Bush2Beach]

 

[palmcity]

I'm a 7 year vegan.......... There is no money to be made in being healthy and there is no money to be made in  death.All the money, and there is a lot, is made in sick care. I don't call it health care because there is no cure being made, only symptoms being treated.  Only the body can heal itself and it has a remarkably ability to do so. You just have to feed it properly to do so.  I chose to be vegan to avoid chronic illness. These really are just detox symptoms of the body that has become inflamed and lymph clogged with mucus. This population should be healthier than average due to high fruit consumption. 

As Follows...Wayyy too many FALSE STATEMENTS being made to ignore:
1.There is no money to be made in being healthy = False. Vitamins, supplements, exercise machines, etc. plenty of ways to make money by helping people be healthy.
2. There is no money to be made in death = False. Plenty of money in probate to be made, ask any attorney, funeral buriels, creamations, reselling assets homes furniture etc. Reselling body parts at brain death stage but also common at cessation of birth.
3. All the money, and there is a lot, is made in sick care. =F. Obviously other ways to make money.
4. I don't call it health care because there is no cure being made, only symptoms being treated = F. There are many cures for diseases and infections. Some examples: Smallpox.
Rinderpest.Poliomyelitis (polio)Dracunculiasis.Yaws.Malaria.Hookworm.Lymphatic filariasis............Many antibiotics are used to kill bacteria infections.
5. Only the body can heal itself and it has a remarkably ability to do so. You just have to feed it properly to do so. =F. Often the body can NOT heal itself and needs supplemental antibiotics, antivirals, etc. to kill or lower the quantity of invading organisms to rid itself of the infection; without which,many would be dead quicker than normal lifespan tables.
6. You just have to feed it properly to do so.  = F. No amount of special feeding will enable the body to win the battle with some invading bacteria (ex. flesh eating) and viruses (rabies)
7.  I chose to be vegan to avoid chronic illness.  = False. Vegans have been proven to get sick and chronic diseases and illness just as regular humans and we all have a limited lifespan.
8. These really are just detox symptoms of the body that has become inflamed and lymph clogged with mucus. = F. Viral and bacterial infections are not just symptoms.... They are real and can often kill a fragile human body without assistance of antibiotics and antivirals.
9.  This population should be healthier than average due to high fruit consumption. = Unknown, unproven, perhaps yes or no....

Regardless of being a vegan or not.... We all begin with living gametes combination as living but also the new organism (humans) has a set lifespan and as such is dying as well as living.
Being a vegan or not will not change this. With luck, exercise, controlled environment, controlled intake of food, water, antibiotics, minerals, etc. you may live a little longer than another but your genes the gametes brought will also influence that.

As a side note, most people opposed to eating animal meat list the health consequences of cholesterol being found in atherosclerosis lining the blood vessels.....  But what is cholesterol used for and do we need it? Would it still be deposited there if eating no animal fats? Is this also a genetic tendency and do environment factors like stress change your odds of developing this? Is high levels of ldl and total cholesterol a guarantee of you developing this?

http://www.health.harvard.edu/heart-health/how-its-made-cholesterol-production-in-your-body
"But to fully explain cholesterol, you need to realize that it's also vital to your health and well-being. Although we measure cholesterol production in the blood, it's found in every cell in the body. The Harvard Special Health Report Managing Your Cholesterol explains cholesterol as a waxy, whitish-yellow fat and a crucial building block in cell membranes. It's also used to make vitamin D, hormones (including testosterone and estrogen), and fat-dissolving bile acids. In fact, cholesterol production is so important that your liver and intestines make about 80% of the cholesterol you need to stay healthy. Only about 20% comes from the foods you eat"...............about 20% from foods......... (think genes and check your cholesterol levels)

[PurpleAlligator]

As Follows...Wayyy too many FALSE STATEMENTS (in your opinion) being made to ignore:
1.There is no money to be made in being healthy = False. Vitamins, supplements, exercise machines, etc. plenty of ways to make money by helping people be healthy.

I only take a B12 supplement.  Most vitamins and supplements are pretty much a waste of money and are eliminated.  Lots of gullible people want a magic pill to lose weight.  But take into account the money spent on unnecessary supplements of around $20b per year vs $325b (2015) spent on prescriptions in the US (doesn't count doctor administered meds which would make the figure much higher) there's much more money being made in drugs.  Which companies are bigger and more valuable?  Those making vitamins or those making prescription drugs. 

And when I say "no money to be made" as you can see, I refer to where the big money is being made.

2. There is no money to be made in death = False. Plenty of money in probate to be made, ask any attorney, funeral buriels, creamations, reselling assets homes furniture etc. Reselling body parts at brain death stage but also common at cessation of birth.

Of course there is a death industry, but I'm referring to the "sick care" industry in this discussion.  They make no money when someone dies.  Getting them on multiple lifetime prescriptions is a lucrative business.

3. All the money, and there is a lot, is made in sick care. =F. Obviously other ways to make money.

Addressed above, get somebody on insulin, blood pressure meds, blood thinning meds, cholesterol meds, and god know what else and there is a lot of money on the table as long as they survive and stay in an impaired condition.  Do you really think that the big players in this business want everybody adopting healthy eating and lifestyle habits?

4. I don't call it health care because there is no cure being made, only symptoms being treated = F. There are many cures for diseases and infections. Some examples: Smallpox.
Rinderpest.Poliomyelitis (polio)Dracunculiasis.Yaws.Malaria.Hookworm.Lymphatic filariasis............Many antibiotics are used to kill bacteria infections.

Many of the successes being credited to these vaccines do not mention the impact that modern indoor plumbing and sewage disposal has had on the elimination of contagious disease.  If we still defecated in the streets in US cities we'd have major disease outbreaks.

Modern medicine is not curing and reversing heart disease, cancer, or diabetes.  Medications control symptoms.  Even cancer goes into "remission".  Diet can reverse each of these major killers of people.  Changing diet has gotten people off of insulin and cholesterol drugs.  Someone can be put in jail for making claims that they can cure these diseases via diet so you won't hear it happening.  Only medical professionals are allowed to give medical advise and they must give advice and treatment per approved practices, of which diet isn't one and probably will never be. 

5. Only the body can heal itself and it has a remarkably ability to do so. You just have to feed it properly to do so. =F. Often the body can NOT heal itself and needs supplemental antibiotics, antivirals, etc. to kill or lower the quantity of invading organisms to rid itself of the infection; without which,many would be dead quicker than normal lifespan tables.

I'm not going to say that antibiotics and emergency medicine are not good or necessary.  Medical professionals generally want the best for their patients.  What I'm saying is that if you feed the body correctly, it will remove inflammation, eliminate toxins, and regenerate healthy tissue as cells in our body are rebuilt at an amazingly fast rate.

6. You just have to feed it properly to do so.  = F. No amount of special feeding will enable the body to win the battle with some invading bacteria (ex. flesh eating) and viruses (rabies). 

There are extreme outliers for every situation and if I had a flesh eating virus or rabies, I'd go see a doctor and get treated.  I'm talking about the chronic diseases that are killing most people and consuming the majority health care dollars.

7.  I chose to be vegan to avoid chronic illness.  = False. Vegans have been proven to get sick and chronic diseases and illness just as regular humans and we all have a limited lifespan.

So far it's working good for me.  Feel free to eat your cheeseburgers and french fries.  Everyone should do what they feel works best for them.  Of course we have a finite life span and I'm not claiming otherwise.  Also, a deep fried french fry or other such food is technically vegan and unfortunately a large segment of growth in the vegan community is in junk vegan food.  A vegan doughnut is still a doughnut in my opinion.  Vegans who eat high fat and deep fried foods will likely still have inflammatory conditions occurring in their bodies leading to disease.  You have your strong opinions and i'm not sure what they are based on.  I' posted 2 books to read and a video to watch.  It only scratches the surface of what I've read and experienced over the last seven years. 

8. These really are just detox symptoms of the body that has become inflamed and lymph clogged with mucus. = F. Viral and bacterial infections are not just symptoms.... They are real and can often kill a fragile human body without assistance of antibiotics and antivirals.

They won't impact a healthy human body.  Of course a weak human body could succumb to attacks.  A well functioning and mucus free lymph system is key to keeping you body healthy.  Someone on a standard american diet will have a compromised lymph system.  A cold or flu is the body eliminating mucus from the body and lymph system. 

9.  This population should be healthier than average due to high fruit consumption. = Unknown, unproven, perhaps yes or no....

Eat standard american diet for a month and eat nothing but fruit for a month and tell me which diet made you feel better.

Regardless of being a vegan or not.... We all begin with living gametes combination as living but also the new organism (humans) has a set lifespan and as such is dying as well as living.

My opinion is that eating habits are inherited in the household and community you are raised (along with some genetic benefits or the opposite) but the eating habits have a much more profound impact on your health than the genetics.


Being a vegan or not will not change this.

What can I say other than I disagree

With luck, exercise, controlled environment, controlled intake of food, water, antibiotics, minerals, etc. you may live a little longer than another but your genes the gametes brought will also influence that.

On average you will live longer and on top of that the quality of life you enjoy will be superior.

Diet is one factor, but there are many others such as exercise, happiness, family etc that can be factors as well.  Read The Blue Zones for more on this.

[kmwilli6]

buddyguygreen & PurpleAlligator - congrats on being vegan, I know it is no easy undertaking. I have been vegetarian (mostly plant-based) for 1 year and I feel great, better than ever and plan to go fully vegan one day.

PurpleAlligator - I think you made excellent points in your post, especially about the healthcare industry and the Blue Zones; I agree with you 100%.

JoeP450 - as for your question about vegans being devoid of chronic illness, vegan is a broad term. You can certainly be an unhealthy vegan (oreos and potato chips are vegan!). A better word for someone eating healthily as a vegan would probably be plant-based. Try researching on youtube some videos by Dr. Michael Greger, he has some videos that I think are very informative. Vegans can certainly have chronic illness, but someone who is plant-based and making sure they are getting sufficient B12, Omega 3's and consciously looking out for their health would likely be at a very reduced risk for chronic illness.

Palmcity, you link to a site describing which supplements vegans "need" (I only agree a vegan NEEDS B12 in supplement form). In fact, regardless of being a meat eater or a vegan, many people today are not getting sufficient vitamins and minerals, so this is not just a vegan problem. Also, PurpleAlligator makes very good points in his post. If you look at the leading causes of death in the USA, heart disease and cancer are leading the way. Your chances of getting cancer or having heart disease can be greatly reduced through one's eating habits. And while you are correct in saying that there is money to be made in health and death, it surely cannot be close to how much money pharmaceutical companies are making off of sick people (diabetes medicine for tens of years, hundreds of thousands of dollars on cancer treatment etc.). Hence, if we ate healthily and didn't have as much cancer and heart disease as a population, pharmaceutical companies would not make as much money, which is the point PurpleAlligator made already.

Another point I would like to touch on is the thinking that someone is going vegan or vegetarian to live longer. Surely this is not the case (it has never been for me anyways). I would recommend for someone to go vegan/vegetarian/plant-based to feel better on a daily basis and reduce one's chance of developing a crippling disease. A meat eater and vegan may live to be the same age, but how did they feel in their everyday life? And that is only the health aspect of going vegan, there are a few other major reasons...

As for the film, I enjoyed it. As with any documentary, they are trying to prove a point and are generally presenting their argument with no counter argument. It is up to the viewer to take the information and determine whether the information is relevant, or even factual. I think the film does a good job or raising awareness, as was stated earlier, and makes some great points.

There are many other great documentaries on Netflix that touch on vegan diets and or the evils (generally speaking) of animal agriculture. Forks Over Knives, Cowspiricy, and Food Inc. to name a few. I would gladly go into all the other reasons to eat less meat and/or go vegan/plant-based, but I don't want to get too off topic!

Thanks Simon for posting about this, I think it is very important.

Kevin

[fruitlovers]

http://www.facebook.com/seen.everything/videos/1012726032165267/?hc_ref=ART7HC2oppWTc1VWyTLwXOXklt_RmlCQWB9cjbeM6TDsvlLfSq2_Id_EaREe2lQqcEg

Oscar, thanks for sharing that video, it's hilarious!

Simon

Yeah, i thought it was pretty funny! It's good to laugh at yourself. I think too often people turn their diet, or their lifestyle, into almost a religious fervor. Diet is definitely important, but there is an easy tendency to get too obsessed with it.

[TheDom]

It is important to point out that the absolute risk of colon cancer that this stupid movie is making a big deal over takes one from an approximate 5% lifetime risk to 6%. The actual numbers are a 17% or so increased risk with a serving of processed meat daily. In my book that's not much to freak out about, especially given that colon cancer is a very treatable disease, but of course risk assessment is a very personal thing.

Contrast that with smoking and lung cancer in which you see a 2300% increased risk of lung cancer, which goes from an absolute risk of about 1.3% to about 17.2%.

That this movie consistently harps on the two being in the same category without briefly explaining the difference is flat out misleading.

[fruitlovers]

It would be good to have controlled studies comparing the health of people following different diets under controlled conditions. The fact that such studies are almost non existent is a sad commentary on the health of our population. I don't think anyone would argue that there is not a severe problem occuring, especially in USA, with out of control obesity, terminal diseases, and generally bad diets by most of the population.

[buddyguygreen]

All the videos on being vegan and health videos or propaganda are made as if the population had the intellect of a 10 year old, If you guys want a better idea on how the human body functions and the knowledge of what actually makes us age i would suggest everyone read man the unknown by alexis carrel, Thats a great book from one of the masters of science.

[fruitlovers]

All the videos on being vegan and health videos or propaganda are made as if the population had the intellect of a 10 year old, If you guys want a better idea on how the human body functions and the knowledge of what actually makes us age i would suggest everyone read man the unknown by alexis carrel, Thats a great book from one of the masters of science.

The general level of knowledge on this topic is very low. So it's not surprising that most of information is geared for people that know almost nothing about it. Also there is lots of conflicting infomation, and misinformation is rampant, especially on the part of companies that stand to benefit by putting out false or misleading information.
Thanks for the book recommendation, never heard of it.

[palmcity]

These really are just detox symptoms of the body that has become inflamed and lymph clogged with mucus. = False. Viral and bacterial infections are not just symptoms.... They are real and can often kill a fragile human body without assistance of antibiotics and antivirals.

They won't impact a healthy human body.  Of course a weak human body could succumb to attacks.  A well functioning and mucus free lymph system is key to keeping you body healthy.  Someone on a standard american diet will have a compromised lymph system.  A cold or flu is the body eliminating mucus from the body and lymph system. 

I see you still don't get it.......Virus and bacteria can and often do affect healthy human bodies. None are superman and all are susceptible to virus and bacteria infections. Your odds of infection from the attacks will be lower if you have a healthy immune system; However, ALL are susceptible and can become infected.....Regardless if a Vegan, Omnivore, etc.

There are groups in Europe resistant to HIV infection. This is NOT because of their diet. This is because of Heredity and the gamete union and their genes affected their immune system. If you on your vegan diet was exposed to HIV and they on a usual omnivore diet to HIV; put your money on the European resistant HIV group to live longer without medicine intervention.

Also tell your views to the healthy American Indians living off the land when the Europeans arrived at North America......They were almost eliminated by a virus...Smallpox.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Native_American_disease_and_epidemics

"Protein builds muscle and a strong immune system"   http://hivinsite.ucsf.edu/insite?page=pb-daily-diet

[JoeP450]

Fruit lovers brings up a real point about how we don't have studies on this sort of thing. Some answers include time and money but also that human biology is incredibly complex. Say we were to compare the incidence of Alzheimer's in vegans vs omnivorous diet? The results would take decades to read out and millions and millions of dollars to fund and in the end the data may show a non significant difference! It would have to be a huge study with many people to avoid such anecdotes as hey I'm a vegan and I'm in great shape... most professional athletes are likely omnivores, maybe a wild guess.

I am under the opinion that we are living better off through technology, over time our quality of life and life expectancy has grown from those 100 years ago, and those before them ect. Some of the health issues we face today are result of previous problems solved and are now efficient, but life is so efficient now you don't even have to get off the couch, the sedentary lifestyle and breeds obesity/metabolic syndrome. Foods are jam packed with calories (Big Mac, large fries, and coke) very few people are actually starving in US vs 3rd world countries, it is very easy to overindulge. Look at the Starbucks rainbow pixie drink like why, why on earth is that even tolerated? I have been fortunate to go to Europe the past two years on vacation and one blatant observation is that the fattest people in Italy, Spain, Greece...are the Americans on vacation. It's sad but we are so unaware because obesity is so common place here in America. People think about obesity as the fat person on tv who can't get out of bed, but may be a bit surprised to calculate their own ideal body weight.

For 7.5 years I was a pharmacist at a grocery store and can tell you that near 70% of disease is treatable with generic medicines on the wallmart 4$/10$ list this is an incredible efficiency. So efficient it is abused. Had a patient once, 36 yo female on amlodipine, metoprolol, hydrochlorothiazide, birth control, alprazolam. I would see her grocery cart, see the shit she would eat: candy, frozen foods, deli fried chicken...(Truth be told your healthcare provider is human and does judge you). But overtime she started buying Whole Foods, juicing vegetables, eating lean meat, and took up hot yoga. She was able to lose the weight, her resting blood pressure dropped and she was able to stop her blood pressure medication and overtime she would only come in to talk and pick up her monthly birth control and occasional alprazolam. She didn't just stop her medication in two weeks because a mirical diet, she busted her ass doing hot yoga and ate less calories with a nutritious balanced diet. This is a success story, this is what makes those involved in healthcare happy, sadly it is few and far between.

When people worry about this causes cancer that causes cancer for crying out loud the sun causes cancer. Some real simple recommendations for improving health, watch your your salt intake, walk 30 minutes a day, 5 days a week, and don't over indulge. Be educated on target A1c, Blood pressure, body weight, and chlolestorl. And remember that what determines a poison is the dose.

-joep450

[fruitlovers]

"one blatant observation is that the fattest people in Italy, Spain, Greece...are the Americans on vacation."
Think of the gourmet food these countries are most famous for. Now think of the most famous American food? Cheeseburger? KFC? Unfortunately it seems the USA has been a lot more succesful in exporting fast food, junk food, overseas than those countries have been exporting their fine foods over here. I think obesity is a growing problem (pun unintended) even in Europe, South America, Asia, due to American fast food chains, and the supermarket concept spawned in America.

[buddyguygreen]

Anyone who truly wants to learn about health and not just talk about it because it was brought to their attention through netflix or a forum should study Aryurveda medicine or a simpler form of that (in my opinion) Chinese medicine to really understand health and its aspects, if you want to go deeper the ancient health teachings from ancient Egypt and ancient Greece are great as well. Also David Wolfe Longevity Now program is a new age way of healing that some think is ridiculous but if you actually learn what he is talking about and not assume an opinion of what you don't understand it opens a new perspective on the incomplete knowledge of the basics of health, I mean Cacao beans, How can you go wrong, Basics.

[Tropicdude]

Every human is unique genetically,  we do not all process foods the same way,  nor medicines for that fact.   a Vegan diet might be perfect for some individuals,  but very unhealthy for others.  for example individuals with Homozygous mutation in MTHFR  will have  poor methylation cycle,  and have lower than normal b12,  and folic acid,  among many other problems. ( domino effect ).

there is NO VEGAN source of vitamin B12,   yes they can say algae this or Algae that,  but in reality the B12 is made by living bacteria.  humans have lost the ability to make their own B12.  100s of thousands of years ago.   being Vegan is NOT NATURAL .

As I mentioned,  a person can live a healthy life, as a vegan, and might even be healthier.   but what is ridiculous and dangerous,  is to say that all people will be healthier on a vegan diet. 

I agree with many that have mentioned the un-natural substances in our foods, enviroment,  and sugars,   low nutrient foods,  lack of sufficient minerals.   its not just one cause,  and these will effect each person in a different way depending on their individual epigenome.

The future of diet recommendations and medicine will be individualized,  based on each persons unique genetic makeup. 

I frankly do not care what people choose to do with their own bodies,  but when they try to create policy,  or attack others for following a "normal" diet.  that is a problem,  and there are a few that have a delusional goal,  of making the world Vegan.  which is not even logistically possible.  it is so naive for someone in a 1st world country spending a lot of money on imported fruits and veggies all year long,  specialty foods,   many of these vegans spend more in one day than some make in a month.  people that live in arid countries have goats that live off the plants that can grow in those areas.  you are not going to grow kale in the freaking Moroccan dessert.

lets take a look at the longest lived and healthiest people on the planet.  they  have some things in common,  none of which is being vegan.  Okinawa Japan.  for example,  mineral rich waters,  fish,  low pollution,  low stress.   etc.  not going to get into all the details.   too much of anything is bad of course.  of course,  eating 16oz BBQ grilled steak is not going to be good for your health.  but eliminating all meat is not the solution.

[buddyguygreen]

The longest living person on record Li Ching-Yuen died at 256 ate nothing but herbs and rice wine.

[stuartdaly88]

The longest living person on record Li Ching-Yuen died at 256 ate nothing but herbs and rice wine.

Li Ching-Yuen also stated that he ate deer venison(a very healthy source of protein) and goji berries amoung other things, no one could survive on just herbs and wine lol.

It is also believed that while the man did live to an incredible age the Chinese government inflated that age as properganda to improve national pride etc etc

[Mike T]

No one has lived beyond 130 years and people making it beyond 100 is probably a modern phenomenon. Longevity is prone to exaggeration.

[PurpleAlligator]

On vitamin B12, vegans need to supplement. But even omnivores should get a test to see if they are deficient. As B12 originates from bacteria in the soil, it must be ingested by animals who are grass fed and with the proliferation of factory farms livestock are not ingesting B12 and it is not in the resulting meat and dairy products.  B12 deficiency is a very serious matter and can cause irreversible nerve damage.  If growing your own vegetables in rich organic soil it's likely that vegans in the past ingested diet with vegetables getting B12. Eating store bought triple washed greens it won't happen.

[Mike T]

Realistically we are not meant to be vegans and while it is more practical in modern society there are other important nutrients besides B12 that vegetable products alone don't easily supply. Omega 3,animal iron, sulphur,vitamin D3,some amino acids and dipeptides and there is other stuff. A vegan diet that includes some seafood, poultry, eggs and some red meat might be the best if being nutritionally perfect is what is being pursued. We are omnivores and the real question is the proportion of animal based foods that is ideal.

[fruitlovers]

On vitamin B12, vegans need to supplement. But even omnivores should get a test to see if they are deficient. As B12 originates from bacteria in the soil, it must be ingested by animals who are grass fed and with the proliferation of factory farms livestock are not ingesting B12 and it is not in the resulting meat and dairy products.  B12 deficiency is a very serious matter and can cause irreversible nerve damage.  If growing your own vegetables in rich organic soil it's likely that vegans in the past ingested diet with vegetables getting B12. Eating store bought triple washed greens it won't happen.

The whole B12 issue is way overblown. A lot of soy milk, rice milk products, that many vegans drink, if you look at them carefully have B12 supplements already in them. My guess is that most vegans have an over abundance of B12 in their systems. If you look into it carefully the body needs very little B12 and is also able to store it for a long time. Also the cases of B12 deficiencies are extremely rare.

[Clay]

As a long-time vegetarian/vegan, I thought the documentary highlighted some very good points.  For example, I think many people really don't know what protein is, or where it comes from. They think it comes from meat. While it is true that flesh has a lot of protein, that cow didn't just magically manifest that protein out of thin air and sunshine. It got the amino acids (basic protein building blocks) from the plants that it consumed. The plants on the other hand, DO magically manifest protein out of thin air and sunshine (with the help of some microbes in the soil). That process is called photosynthesis and it is the process by which we capture energy coming from the sun, and turn it into a form that can be utilized by all creatures living on the planet. Animals do have some capability of reassembling amino acids from one type to another, to meet their needs. But ultimately, the protein was all created by the plants. If you look at all the plant protein that the cow CONSUMED in its short life, and compare that to the amount of protein that it yields as food/meat, you will find a net loss of protein by running the protein through the cow before eating it.

I liked the way the documentary made the connections between food and our long-term health. Other documentaries also show the correlation between meat production and environmental destruction/pollution. It really does mess things up a bit.

What I didn't like about the documentary was the implication that you can magically get off all your medications after just two weeks on a healthy diet. Stopping your meds because  you are feeling "better" sounds very risky and should be done gradually with the assistance of your physician. While a veg diet may allow us to repair a lot of internal damage over time, it is not a magic bullet that can instantly wipe out years of dietary abuses. These things take time and need to be monitored.

Thanks for sharing. Have fun. Be well. Be happy.

[ricshaw]

The longest living person on record Li Ching-Yuen died at 256 ate nothing but herbs and rice wine.

http://www.snopes.com/inboxer/trivia/ching-yuen.asp

[palmcity]

While a veg diet may allow us to repair a lot of internal damage over time, it is not a magic bullet that can instantly wipe out years of dietary abuses. These things take time and need to be monitored

IMO an omnivore diet may allow us to repair a lot of internal damage over time, it is not a magic bullet that can instantly wipe out years of dietary abuses.  Hahaha I can say the same things for an OMNIVORE DIET IMO.

However MAY does not give a percent of success and is side stepping. Ex. reducing your omnivore diet can decrease the amount of insulin needed by the body. However, eating excessive omnivore or vegan diet of high calorie fructose as in mangos etc. will spike your blood sugar and require more insulin (if you are at that stage of diabetes.

This is just silly.........Vegan diets are not a cure all and there is no "These things take time" for most diseases, infirmities, etc......any odds of something going away on its own would be almost identical for either Vegan or Omnivore........of course it would "need to be monitored" as failure would be imminent if you eat too many mangos too fast and a diabetic and expect the vegan fruit to save you curing your disease ....stop diabetes(NOT).... and reverse juvenile onset diabetes (Not)....

Yes on an omnivore reduction diet or vegan reduction of carbs sugars fructose etc. you may be able to get off your oral hypoglycemic medications with physician approval and monitoring.... Exercise will even increase your odds...

But do not put up hope of preventing infections of virus/bacteria/protozoans etc. on a vegan diet. Same with putting up hope of reversing aging, making you as fertile at age 70 as a 20 yr old, 

Your last sentence is "These things take time" = False.... These things just don't cure diseases, don't guarantee a longer life, and IMO do not make you any healthier than being an Omnivore and exercising/ eating in moderation and living a healthy lifestyle.

If you just say, I'm a Vegan and IMO I feel better being a Vegan...... GREAT....More power to you.... Just don't add on the BS.....

[Caesar]

As a long-time vegetarian/vegan, I thought the documentary highlighted some very good points.  For example, I think many people really don't know what protein is, or where it comes from. They think it comes from meat. While it is true that flesh has a lot of protein, that cow didn't just magically manifest that protein out of thin air and sunshine. It got the amino acids (basic protein building blocks) from the plants that it consumed. The plants on the other hand, DO magically manifest protein out of thin air and sunshine (with the help of some microbes in the soil). That process is called photosynthesis and it is the process by which we capture energy coming from the sun, and turn it into a form that can be utilized by all creatures living on the planet. Animals do have some capability of reassembling amino acids from one type to another, to meet their needs. But ultimately, the protein was all created by the plants. If you look at all the plant protein that the cow CONSUMED in its short life, and compare that to the amount of protein that it yields as food/meat, you will find a net loss of protein by running the protein through the cow before eating it.

I liked the way the documentary made the connections between food and our long-term health. Other documentaries also show the correlation between meat production and environmental destruction/pollution. It really does mess things up a bit.

What I didn't like about the documentary was the implication that you can magically get off all your medications after just two weeks on a healthy diet. Stopping your meds because  you are feeling "better" sounds very risky and should be done gradually with the assistance of your physician. While a veg diet may allow us to repair a lot of internal damage over time, it is not a magic bullet that can instantly wipe out years of dietary abuses. These things take time and need to be monitored.

Thanks for sharing. Have fun. Be well. Be happy.

Photosynthesis doesn't generate Protein or Amino Acids. It generates carbohydrates, fuel. Amino acids are generated via a different mechanism (I think the same one that requires Nitrogen fertilization for plants).

Humans are capable of assembling eleven amino acids in our own bodies: 5 no matter our condition (ADNES), 6 depending on the pathophysiological circumstances of the body (RCGQPY). 9 amino acids (FVTWMLIKH) are essential; the body is incapable of assembling them (despite requiring them), and they must be supplied via the diet. This condition is specific to humans; grazing animals are metabolically capable of reassembling amino acids on their own, from incomplete protein sources.

There are precious few complete plant proteins. Even with high-protein crops, most are deficient in some of the essential amino acids (it's at this point where vegans would recommend combining crops to form a complete protein... fair point). But one thing is clear: the vast majority of plant species (including those consumed by grazers) are low in essential amino acids (though they may have higher amounts of the other types). This is why we eat meat (even if we're better at finding plant protein these days). Grazers may be able to reassemble amino acids to suit their needs, but humans cannot; what we get is what we use. A net loss of protein (if it's true) is a moot point; if the plants we eat are lacking in the types we need, it wouldn't matter how much protein we're ingesting. It's not just quantity, quality matters.


With greater knowledge of plant sources of protein and how to combine them, I think it's safe to say that most of us can be very healthy with a properly managed vegan diet. I also think it's true that most of us can be healthy with a properly managed omnivore diet (which is not as common as it should be in modern society). And as the link in my first post explained, some of us can be very healthy even with a fully carnivorous diet (completely lacking in plant matter). I think the safest option is for each of us to simply go with one's gut (so to speak); eat what you like in terms of healthy food, and you will be healthy. The mistake here is declaring that the presence or absence of meat will inherently impact the health of an individual (that depends on the quality of meat being ingested - healthy cuts, from healthy well-raised stock -, and on the individual's particular tolerance to meat... genetics, basically).

IMO an omnivore diet may allow us to repair a lot of internal damage over time, it is not a magic bullet that can instantly wipe out years of dietary abuses.  Hahaha I can say the same things for an OMNIVORE DIET IMO.

However MAY does not give a percent of success and is side stepping. Ex. reducing your omnivore diet can decrease the amount of insulin needed by the body. However, eating excessive omnivore or vegan diet of high calorie fructose as in mangos etc. will spike your blood sugar and require more insulin (if you are at that stage of diabetes.

This is just silly.........Vegan diets are not a cure all and there is no "These things take time" for most diseases, infirmities, etc......any odds of something going away on its own would be almost identical for either Vegan or Omnivore........of course it would "need to be monitored" as failure would be imminent if you eat too many mangos too fast and a diabetic and expect the vegan fruit to save you curing your disease ....stop diabetes(NOT).... and reverse juvenile onset diabetes (Not)....

Yes on an omnivore reduction diet or vegan reduction of carbs sugars fructose etc. you may be able to get off your oral hypoglycemic medications with physician approval and monitoring.... Exercise will even increase your odds...

But do not put up hope of preventing infections of virus/bacteria/protozoans etc. on a vegan diet. Same with putting up hope of reversing aging, making you as fertile at age 70 as a 20 yr old, 

Your last sentence is "These things take time" = False.... These things just don't cure diseases, don't guarantee a longer life, and IMO do not make you any healthier than being an Omnivore and exercising/ eating in moderation and living a healthy lifestyle.

If you just say, I'm a Vegan and IMO I feel better being a Vegan...... GREAT....More power to you.... Just don't add on the BS.....

With serenity, Palm. 

Veganism was always a trigger for me (though I had no one to argue with). Most of what I was exposed to was the self-righteous declarations of animal rights activists (the dark side of ethical veganism). Then came a fateful day at college where I met an ethical vegan in person (of approximately that same type), and I relished the opportunity to... Sit down for a nice chat. I left my vitriol out of the equation and proceeded to talk it out. You'll find that cold reasoning dialectic is far more effective than debate in getting your point understood, and understanding the opposition in the process. Neither one convinced the other, but we shared a mutual respect. I got some perspective, as well as a healthy dose of empathy for my ideological opposites. On a visceral level (despite my lack of vitriol), I did get the satisfaction of systematically employing every counterargument I could find that is usually ignored by omnivores. For all their pride on reason, many online omnivores can be quite lacking in systematic analysis (which might be why so many of the more vitriolic debates end up won by vegans). If one takes one's opponent seriously rather than attacking or ridiculing, you'll be able to see what their argument is about, and (if your conviction remains firm) you'll know exactly what to counter, how to counter it, and what to concede. You'll also gain well-needed peace, and (hopefully) mutual respect.

These days, I don't much mind veganism. I can see the appeal, though I don't particularly care to irrevocably eliminate animal products from my diet. Give me an argument, however, and you may get a rousing two hour dialectic (like my college friend). Whatever your views, keep it civil, and keep it classy.