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Author Topic: Red Guillermo ilama  (Read 588 times)

Bananaizme

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Red Guillermo ilama
« on: August 12, 2017, 09:37:20 PM »
    Anyone here growing this red Guillermo ilama? I didn't see anything about it using the search box. I'm curious if it's maybe the same thing that I already have.  I have a grafted ilama that the nursery just called " red ilama ". I'm wondering if these two might be the same.

William

Guayaba

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Re: Red Guillermo ilama
« Reply #1 on: August 13, 2017, 11:21:43 AM »
Guillermo is suppose to be a pink fleshed variety.  If your "Red Ilama" is described properly, then it would probably not be Guillermo. Some of the red Ilamas that are being sold at California nurseries may be Genova Red....I am told. Unfortunately we won't know until they fruit. Where did you purchase your red ilama from?
Bob

Ethan

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Re: Red Guillermo ilama
« Reply #2 on: August 13, 2017, 01:03:25 PM »

bsbullie

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Re: Red Guillermo ilama
« Reply #3 on: August 13, 2017, 01:12:23 PM »
For the most part, I see ilamas being given generic names because of mixup and incorrect or unsure varieties being propagated and sold.  I would not be surprised uf the one you got named "red ilama" could be any of the named varieties of red/pink ilama.
- Rob

Bananaizme

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Re: Red Guillermo ilama
« Reply #4 on: August 13, 2017, 02:37:14 PM »
    Bob

Yes I kind of wondered if this " red ilama " purchased from Maddock nursery wasn't indeed Genova red. I just got a scion of Genova red from Frank and grafted it last weekend. There was a really difficult language barrier between myself and the nursery worker who assisted me with the tree selection.  They also sold a grafted " white ilama " too.

Ethan, I did see that pic that Pan Dulce posted of the Guillermo. I wonder if the flesh is pink or red ?  Maybe I could email Johnathan Crane and ask. That fruit in the picture is a really nice looking fruit.

Rob I totally agree with you. It seems like this mis labeling occurs all too often . When ever I graft I always slow down and follow some steps that I have setup for myself to ensure accuracy. But with this being said,sometimes  identification tags get lost. I can only imagine when you got a bunch of nurserymen grafting that there is going to be opportunities for mislabeling to happen.

Thank you to all who responded to my question about the red Guillermo. I still haven't heard a response from the seller. I guess either way,I can't have too many Ilamas

William

bsbullie

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Re: Red Guillermo ilama
« Reply #5 on: August 13, 2017, 06:20:19 PM »
    Bob

Yes I kind of wondered if this " red ilama " purchased from Maddock nursery wasn't indeed Genova red. I just got a scion of Genova red from Frank and grafted it last weekend. There was a really difficult language barrier between myself and the nursery worker who assisted me with the tree selection.  They also sold a grafted " white ilama " too.

Ethan, I did see that pic that Pan Dulce posted of the Guillermo. I wonder if the flesh is pink or red ?  Maybe I could email Johnathan Crane and ask. That fruit in the picture is a really nice looking fruit.

Rob I totally agree with you. It seems like this mis labeling occurs all too often . When ever I graft I always slow down and follow some steps that I have setup for myself to ensure accuracy. But with this being said,sometimes  identification tags get lost. I can only imagine when you got a bunch of nurserymen grafting that there is going to be opportunities for mislabeling to happen.

Thank you to all who responded to my question about the red Guillermo. I still haven't heard a response from the seller. I guess either way,I can't have too many Ilamas

William

I don't think this is a misnaming issue but more a lack of knowing by many to most nurserymen (its not really what I would call ignorance but just not knowing the specific traits/characteristics that allows for the proper IDing).   For teying to prkoperly ID, I would seek out Har's input.
- Rob

WGphil

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Re: Red Guillermo ilama
« Reply #6 on: August 14, 2017, 10:24:50 AM »
A pic of my red Genova




Bananaizme

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Re: Red Guillermo ilama
« Reply #7 on: August 14, 2017, 11:47:40 AM »
    WGPhil

 I just grafted this one from scions that Frank so graciously provided. I was looking at it last night and it shows signs of beginning to push. I'm getting excited. What is your opinion about it's flavor ?

William

bsbullie

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Re: Red Guillermo ilama
« Reply #8 on: August 14, 2017, 01:30:39 PM »
    WGPhil

 I just grafted this one from scions that Frank so graciously provided. I was looking at it last night and it shows signs of beginning to push. I'm getting excited. What is your opinion about it's flavor ?

William

Flavor is awesome!
- Rob

WGphil

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Re: Red Guillermo ilama
« Reply #9 on: August 14, 2017, 01:34:21 PM »
First year in the ground and first limbs to form

Be awhile before fruit

Bananaizme

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Re: Red Guillermo ilama
« Reply #10 on: August 14, 2017, 02:23:25 PM »
    Rob

Thanks . I am really looking forward to getting to try this one soon. I'm about half tempted to graft onto my mature in ground fino de jete in the hopes of speeding up production.

William

Guayaba

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Re: Red Guillermo ilama
« Reply #11 on: August 14, 2017, 04:39:46 PM »
    WGPhil

 I just grafted this one from scions that Frank so graciously provided. I was looking at it last night and it shows signs of beginning to push. I'm getting excited. What is your opinion about it's flavor ?

William
Just curious....what did you graft your Ilama scions onto? My grafts from spring of the Genova Red and Frank's Anona Rosada confinue to have a tough time when I grafted them onto my un-named Ilama "Twiggy".  They continue to struggle but are still alive.  My hope is that the new summer grafts I made directly onto Cherimoya stock will fair better.

Anona Rosada graft slowly growing new (red leaves) with Twiggy leaves in background.


Bob

bsbullie

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Re: Red Guillermo ilama
« Reply #12 on: August 14, 2017, 05:19:48 PM »
    WGPhil

 I just grafted this one from scions that Frank so graciously provided. I was looking at it last night and it shows signs of beginning to push. I'm getting excited. What is your opinion about it's flavor ?

William
Just curious....what did you graft your Ilama scions onto? My grafts from spring of the Genova Red and Frank's Anona Rosada confinue to have a tough time when I grafted them onto my un-named Ilama "Twiggy".  They continue to struggle but are still alive.  My hope is that the new summer grafts I made directly onto Cherimoya stock will fair better.

Anona Rosada graft slowly growing new (red leaves) with Twiggy leaves in background.



Ilama will not work (grafts will fail or struggle and fail) when grafted to itself.

Some pond apple works for ilama and some cherimoya (I have seen it fail on certain cherimoya).  When on Sugar Apple it usually flourishes, has trouble setting fruit/sets mo fruit and then seems to die out of nowhere.
- Rob

Bananaizme

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Re: Red Guillermo ilama
« Reply #13 on: August 14, 2017, 05:57:07 PM »
   Bob

I had a bunch of " Dr.White " seedlings and they were pushing new growth when I grafted Franks scions onto them. Infact after grafting I've noticed buds below the graft union are swelling and pushing so I know that the sap in flowing. I've been fertilizing them with a chicken waste fertilizer which has given good results. I'm going to try Frank's method of stripping leaves/ pruning back in February/March to see if I can get earlier flowers to pollinate. My fino flowers pretty much continuously.

William 

Guayaba

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Re: Red Guillermo ilama
« Reply #14 on: August 15, 2017, 12:03:23 AM »
    WGPhil

 I just grafted this one from scions that Frank so graciously provided. I was looking at it last night and it shows signs of beginning to push. I'm getting excited. What is your opinion about it's flavor ?

William
Just curious....what did you graft your Ilama scions onto? My grafts from spring of the Genova Red and Frank's Anona Rosada confinue to have a tough time when I grafted them onto my un-named Ilama "Twiggy".  They continue to struggle but are still alive.  My hope is that the new summer grafts I made directly onto Cherimoya stock will fair better.

Anona Rosada graft slowly growing new (red leaves) with Twiggy leaves in background.



Ilama will not work (grafts will fail or struggle and fail) when grafted to itself.

Some pond apple works for ilama and some cherimoya (I have seen it fail on certain cherimoya).  When on Sugar Apple it usually flourishes, has trouble setting fruit/sets mo fruit and then seems to die out of nowhere.
Rob-Thanks for the verification that Ilama grafted onto Ilama does not work well. Now I can use that excuse instead of my subpar grafting technique  ;D
Bob

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Re: Red Guillermo ilama
« Reply #15 on: August 15, 2017, 12:12:44 AM »
   Bob

I had a bunch of " Dr.White " seedlings and they were pushing new growth when I grafted Franks scions onto them. Infact after grafting I've noticed buds below the graft union are swelling and pushing so I know that the sap in flowing. I've been fertilizing them with a chicken waste fertilizer which has given good results. I'm going to try Frank's method of stripping leaves/ pruning back in February/March to see if I can get earlier flowers to pollinate. My fino flowers pretty much continuously.

William
William - that should work out well using Dr. White as root stock. I have some Dr. White seedling that I will be using next spring for grafting.  Keep us updated on your progress with your Ilama grafts.  I have noticed the grafts I have of Fino De Jete are very vigorous as well.  They seem to send out buds all the time!
Bob

Bananaizme

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Re: Red Guillermo ilama
« Reply #16 on: August 15, 2017, 12:13:57 AM »
    I did graft the cuban fiberless soursop onto a 5 gallon seedling tree that I picked up . Not sure if it will take but if not then I'll try again later. Frank says that it seems to be hardier than other soursops. In my case it will still be in a climate controlled greenhouse along with cashew and malay apple and some other tender stuff.

 William

Bananaizme

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Re: Red Guillermo ilama
« Reply #17 on: August 15, 2017, 12:16:26 AM »
    Bob I was a little unsure about grafting this time of year because it's so hot ( triple digits ) but I had to try and if it doesn't work then theres always spring right.

 William

Bob407

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Re: Red Guillermo ilama
« Reply #18 on: August 15, 2017, 01:39:07 PM »
    WGPhil

 I just grafted this one from scions that Frank so graciously provided. I was looking at it last night and it shows signs of beginning to push. I'm getting excited. What is your opinion about it's flavor ?

William
Just curious....what did you graft your Ilama scions onto? My grafts from spring of the Genova Red and Frank's Anona Rosada confinue to have a tough time when I grafted them onto my un-named Ilama "Twiggy".  They continue to struggle but are still alive.  My hope is that the new summer grafts I made directly onto Cherimoya stock will fair better.

Anona Rosada graft slowly growing new (red leaves) with Twiggy leaves in background.



Ilama will not work (grafts will fail or struggle and fail) when grafted to itself.

Some pond apple works for ilama and some cherimoya (I have seen it fail on certain cherimoya).  When on Sugar Apple it usually flourishes, has trouble setting fruit/sets mo fruit and then seems to die out of nowhere.

Incorrect, ilama will work
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Guanabanus

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Re: Red Guillermo ilama
« Reply #19 on: August 15, 2017, 02:03:37 PM »
Yes, ilama will work as root-stock to graft ilama onto,  especially if several good leaves are left on the rootstock to keep itself well fed.

The main difficulty is producing ilama root-stock--- the seeds are usually hard to germinate, and the freshly germinated seedlings are highly attractive to cut worms, mole crickets, loopers, and damping off fungus.
Har

Guanabanus

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Re: Red Guillermo ilama
« Reply #20 on: August 15, 2017, 02:36:33 PM »
I brought about 9 varieties if Ilama / Papauce from western Guatemala, on four trips, from 1985-1993, sent by Zill Nursery.  Most I did not get to taste there.  I accepted the recommendations of informants, in response to queries.  I would show pictures of ilamas, and I would say,"These we already have, but we are looking for better ones.  I will pay for information, and for small branches for grafting.  What is the best Papauce tree in your comunity, for reddest pulp, or best flavor, or highest productivity."   Only one person indicated his own tree;  that was the Pajapita.

Per pulp color:

Genova White
one other white one
and one very pale whitish pink one

very red flesh
Genova Red*
Roman  purplish
Nilito

very pink flesh
Guillermo*
Pajapita*
Gramajo

? probably light pink
'Efrain 200'  Selected for productivity--- Mr. Efrain said" I sold some 200 fruits from this tree this year."  I could see at least a hundred fruit stems still hanging in the tree.  But it never fruited here in Florida, so I never saw a fruit, only just the color of the new growth, which is a good indication of flesh color.

You can see more details in old issues of Tropical Fruit News, and in one issue of Tropical Fruit World, 1990.
« Last Edit: August 15, 2017, 04:13:12 PM by Guanabanus »
Har

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Re: Red Guillermo ilama
« Reply #21 on: August 15, 2017, 03:29:47 PM »
I brought about 9 varieties if Ilama / Papauce from western Guatemala, on four trips, from 1985-1993, sent by Zill Nursery.  Most I did not get to taste there.  I accepted the recommendations of informants, in response to queries.  I would show pictures of ilamas, and I would say,"These we already have, but we are looking for better ones.  I will pay for information, and for small branches for grafting.  What is the best Papauce tree in your comunity, for reddest pulp, or best flavor, or highest productivity."   Only one person indicated his own tree;  that was the Pajapita.

Per pulp color:

Genova White
one other white one
and one very pale whitish pink one

very red flesh
Genova Red*
Roman
Nilito

very pink flesh
Guillermo*
Pajapita*

? probably light pink
'Efrain 200'  Selected for productivity--- Mr. Efrain said" I sold some 200 fruits from this tree this year."  I could see at least a hundred fruit stems still hanging in the tree.  But it never fruited here in Florida, so I never saw a fruit, only just the color of the new growth, which is a good indication of flesh color.

You can see more details in old issues of Tropical Fruit News, and in one issue of Tropical Fruit World, 1990.
Thanks for the input Har!  I keep a copy of the Neglected Crops article from you that has really helped understand the variation in Ilama.  Does Roman have almost purple flesh.  Seems like a nice one to search for.....if it still exists  ;D .  It's a shame that more of these varieties aren't in circulation.
Bob

Guanabanus

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Re: Red Guillermo ilama
« Reply #22 on: August 15, 2017, 04:17:52 PM »
There is probably even greater variation of Ilama in Mexico, but I have only seen pictures.  Purportedly, that terrain is too dangerous from the drug cartels for gringos to visit.  However, my first two visits to Guatemala during their civil war was also ill advised--- I got lucky.
Har

Bush2Beach

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Re: Red Guillermo ilama
« Reply #23 on: August 16, 2017, 11:56:06 AM »
Har, I'm headed to Guatemala in the spring. Could you provide any guidance on good area's to visit for scion, or any sort of collections that may exist ?
I see that we need a fruit friend to visit that area outside Aculpoco, Mexico on an Annona reconnaissance but it will take a local guide and a sharp individual.

Guanabanus

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Re: Red Guillermo ilama
« Reply #24 on: August 16, 2017, 01:56:56 PM »
Southwestern Guatemala:  town of Genova, town of Retalhuleu, El Xab and Nilito communities, and town of Pajapita.  There's a nice rural motel outside town of Coatepeque;  if I remember, the name is Hotel Virginia.  Unfortunately, Pepe, the taxi driver who ablely assisted me each time, moved to California.
Har

 

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