The Tropical Fruit Forum

HI Mike,
     Yeah, I got one.  It, and its sister LA Early, are my earliest ripening Satsumas.  Not necessarily the best flavored Satsuma.  Of my sweet citrus, only the Changsha tangerine can be enjoyed earlier.   
     Its hardiness is about the same as any Satsuma, around 18F during the extended freezes we can get in the Pacific Northwest; possibly lower for short duration freezes.

Jim   

Hi Peep,
     Based on my experience, the Sudachi and Yuzu are of comparable hardiness.  Both my large ten year old plants plants easily survived 8F (-13.3C) with only small twig damage, with other lows of 12F, 13F and 14F, during an extended freeze in January 2017 when the temperature stayed below freezing for over 110 hours.

Socal, judging by the pictures in your other thread, I suspect your plants succumbed because they were just too small.  I generally protect my plants from extreme cold for about three years, till the main trunk diameter is about the same diameter as my thumb (the 'rule of thumb' and they are relatively bushy.  The larger size, and the protective effects of the larger canopy, gives them the energy they need to survive future cold snaps, which are relatively infrequent in the Pacific Northwest of the USA.

Pagnr,  Yes, I was talking about fully ripe Kabosu.  I do know that both Sudachi and Kabosu used in Ponzu sauce are used green, the Yuzu being used ripe(?).  Based on my taste test, the Sudachi has better flavor when green.  The Kabosu, the difference between green and ripe is not so clearcut, possibly because the ripe Kabosu is sweeter than either Yuzu or Kabosu. 

Of the varieties I grow, because you normally harvest them green, as limes, my earliest harvested citrus is Sudachi in mid-October, followed by Thomasville Citrangequat a couple weeks later.  My earliest harvested ripe fruit is the Flying dragon (If you count that as a citrus) starting in mid-October, followed by Changsha tangerine in late October, then Kabosu and Yuzu in mid-November.   There are probably many other varieties that ripen as early (or earlier), which I don't grow.

Jim

I had no problem rooting Prague Citsuma cuttings about three years ago..  I took the cuttings in late July while they were still somewhat rubbery, cut a diagonal and dipped them in rooting hormone (Dip-N-Grow), inserted them in potting soil in a transparent pot, then put them in closed transparent containers to keep the humidity high.  About six weeks later roots could be seen at the bottom of the soil in the pots of half of the six.
 
Maybe beginner's luck?  Or maybe the rooting compound, or maybe the timing of when I took the cuttings, were factors.  I gave a couple away and planted the other in the ground, where it is slowly growing, next to another Prague Citsuma I grafted on FD rootstock.  Both are growing slowly.   

My last post on this particular thread.  The impending arrival of an Arctic front motivated me to pick the last of my Satsumas, which were LA Early, Xie Shan and Prague Citsuma.  I also snagged a couple of 'Wonderful' Peels from a Christmas party.  In terms of taste comparison, the results are:
     LA Early, good.  The quality seemed to have peaked in early December, and remained constant since.
     Xie Shan, very good.  The quality has improved greatly and is almost excellent.
     Prague Citsuma, excellent.  The quality has also improved greatly.  It also peels more easily   
     'Wonderful' Peels.  Verdict: poor.

I finished the last Changshas in early December, the flavor was becoming rather bland at that point and deteriorating.

No pictures of the fruit this time, since there is nothing new to see, but, going with the title of the thread, here's a picture of my Xie Shan tree from early December, nestled in its winter shelter:


 


For comparison, here's the LA Early:




And finally, three of the Satsumas after the snow arrived, after midnight Christmas night:




Temperatures won't be too bad with this stalled out front; highs in the low thirties, lows in the twenties, but it's possible to see a couple nights in the upper teens when the skies clear, at which point I'll turn on the thermostatically controlled C9 Christmas tree lights.  Temperatures should moderate back to cold rain in a week.  Temperatures are a few degrees colder up around Puget Sound, including Olympia and Seattle.

Hi Frank,
     The LA Early I bought from Stan Mackenzie and put in the ground 12 years ago; It bloomed and set fruit right away, though I picked the fruit off the first year.  The fruit quality seems to be improving with age.  It's on a Flying Dragon (FD) rootstock and is still quite small; I may post a picture in that Mandarin and fruit photo thread Kaz started.
     The Xie Shan I grafted onto an FD rootstock from its original Citrange rootstock and put in the ground 3 years ago; this is the first year I let it set fruit.  When on the Citrange rootstock, it produced rather sour fruit; the earlier ripening claimed for FD rootstock appears to have resulted in sweeter fruit. 
     The Changsha was one of 24 I grew from seed in December 2007; it is the sole survivor of a 10F (-12.2C) arctic event in 2009.  It subsequently survived an 8F (-13.3C) event in 2017 on an FD rootstock.  It first set about 6 lbs. of fruit last year, a bit over 12 years after it was started.  I discussed this hardy survivor on another thread last year; I'll probably update that in a week or so.
     The Prague Citsuma on unknown rootstock came from Mackenzie farms about five years ago.  It bloomed, but didn't fruit, until 3 years ago, when it set about 4 lbs., then bloomed but didn't set fruit last year, then set fruit again this year, again about 3-4 lbs., at a guess.  Each time it set fruit, about half a dozen were satsuma sized, the rest sub-golf ball sized.  Not what I would call a commercial fruit, but it is good for hours of entertainment.   Maybe with lotsa fertilizer and water it will do better.

Hi Kaz
     They're similar, but not identical.  Both developed in Louisiana a couple decades ago, they may be the earliest ripening Satsumas around; late August in Louisiana.  I actually have both, but I just grafted my Early St. Anne onto a dwarfing rootstock a couple years ago, so I'm not letting any fruit develop until it achieves a size to it.  In my opinion, the Early St Anne is somewhat later and has somewhat better flavor, but there's really not a lot of difference between the two, for all that.

Thanks Tedburn.  It was interesting to make the side by side comparisons.
My Keraji was a bit of a cheat; I'd grafted it last year on Flying Dragon rootstock and it was in a pot.  So, I brought it in in March and it bloomed about 4-5 weeks earlier than the mid-May normal bloom time for Citrus up here.  Next year, I'll have a better idea how it does under normal PNW growing conditions.  The flavor was interesting, though; it seemed to have a bit of lemon mixed in with the Satsuma.
     My Changsha bloomed last year for the first time, about 11 years after I started it.  It's flavor is best earlier in the ripening season, when it's quite good, actually; it becomes bland and insipid by mid-December, so has to be eaten quickly and early, while the peel is still half green.
     I haven't tried Miyagawa, but I do have a Miho, which is derived from it.  The Miho is generally somewhat sweeter and a bit better flavored than the rest of mine, but it only set one late fruit this year, so was not included in the comparison.
     Hi Kaz.  Actually, I've never tasted the Owari Satsuma that I know about, although some of the store Satsumas are likely to be Owari.  Owari doesn't attain full size or flavor in the short growing season up here, it's not early-season enough.  The golf ball sized fruit were terrible, so I eventually exposed it to the frost gods to see how hardy it was.  Only the earliest ripening Satsumas attain full size and reasonable sweetness and flavor. 
     Based on comparisons to store Satsumas.  I'd put LA Early in the middle of the range, when fully sweetened up, normally by late November.  This year seemed to be sweeter earlier, probably  due to that unusual record breaking 116F heat wave we had this year in late June.
     The Xie Shan, I'll just have to wait and see.  It is early enough to attain full size, so that's room for hope.   Fortunately, Satsumas seem to hang well on the tree for months.

I've never had a Satsuma survive extended periods below freezing with lows below 18F,  here in the occasionally frozen north, although they have survived very brief exposures to such lows.   The Brown's Select nearly made it, and I've never tried the new Arctic or Orange Frost varieties, and there may be some other hardier mandarins or Satsumas.  Changsha survives here down to extended periods below freezing with lows down to 8F.  I do have a Keraji, reputed to be hardy to 5F, but it hasn't been tested for hardiness yet in the extended freezes at my location.

Good God, that's a lot of fruit in one glob.

 Here's mine about a month later than the earlier photo.  About 50% larger, with about 2-3 weeks left until average night time temperatures drop into the 40's and the growing season ends.  Satsumas here in Vancouver Wa. don't even think about getting ripe until late October, with best sweetness about a month later,  and even then are generally a bit on the sour side, thanks to the low number of growing degree days here.

That is interesting.  Like Malhar, mine is a  regraft from the original Citrange rootstock to a FD rootstock, done mainly to dwarf the tree, since Satsumas here require robust winter protection some years, but also in hopes the FD rootstock would give somewhat earlier ripening, since the original rootstock produced fruit which were large and well colored, but quite sour.  It was done three years ago.  The first year I knocked the fruit off to enhance growth.  Last year one fruit, a bit sour.  This year half a dozen.

     But I also wonder about cultivar variance.  I have four producing early ripening Satsumas.  Xie Sahn, LA Early, Early St. Anne and Miho.   The LA Early and Early St. Anne have been in the ground for over a decade.  The first three are bumpy and thick skinned, with that stem end bulge, but Miho is smooth thin skinned.   FWIW, my Changsha, while not a Satsuma, is also smooth thin skinned and early ripening. 

Here's mine; A fairly young tree.  I did no thinning, but the 116F weather in June caused fruit drop on many of my citrus.  I haven't seen the 'grape-cluster' effect, but maybe as the tree gets older.