Author Topic: New Zill mangoes -- The monoembryonic vs polyembryonic breakdown  (Read 66152 times)

Mark in Texas

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Re: New Zill mangoes -- The monoembryonic vs polyembryonic breakdown
« Reply #75 on: May 27, 2017, 02:36:07 PM »
Wow, interesting "stuff" and way over my head.

Am growing Sweet Tart on Coconut Cream.  The fella I got it from is trying different rootstocks to compare the influence.  I'll soon be grafting on Mallika and Turpie.

This was the newly grafted ST spring 2016.



Early May it's holding 8 nice fruit and growing up to be a big boy.



Tropicdude

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Re: New Zill mangoes -- The monoembryonic vs polyembryonic breakdown
« Reply #76 on: May 27, 2017, 04:41:38 PM »
The ST on CC sounds interesting.   here in the DR I use the local variety "Banilejo"  which is supposed to have some dwarfing effect, and is adapted to our local soils,  anything on turpentine has done terrible for me here.   keep us up to date on this experiment.
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Tropicdude

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Re: New Zill mangoes -- The monoembryonic vs polyembryonic breakdown
« Reply #77 on: May 27, 2017, 04:45:32 PM »
Re-posting this from previous page,  can anyone else confirm the unknown seeds types listed below?

Poly:
Sweet Tart
PPK
Coconut Cream
Lemon Zest
Cac
Orange Sherbet
Cotton Candy

Mono:
Kathy
Taralay
Edgar
Amy
Peach Cobbler

Have not found data for these  ( still reading through the posts ) , any input?
Honey Kiss ( In one of the reviews a picture of HK seed, looked like a poly can anyone confirm this ? )
Venus
Fruit Punch
Phoenix
Seacrest
Providence
Juicy Peach
Little Gem
Nancy


I will edit this when new information comes in.
William
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Mark in Texas

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Re: New Zill mangoes -- The monoembryonic vs polyembryonic breakdown
« Reply #78 on: May 28, 2017, 09:22:19 AM »
Re-posting this from previous page,  can anyone else confirm the unknown seeds types listed below?

Poly:
Sweet Tart
PPK
Coconut Cream
Lemon Zest
Cac
Orange Sherbet
Cotton Candy

Mono:
Kathy
Taralay
Edgar
Amy
Peach Cobbler

Interesting, why are the "elite" Zill productions poly?  You know that suggests to me that poly trumps mono.  :D

Yeah, you best choose the rootstock that is best for you soil profile and makes a good scion match.

shinzo

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Re: New Zill mangoes -- The monoembryonic vs polyembryonic breakdown
« Reply #79 on: May 28, 2017, 03:24:10 PM »
Wow, interesting "stuff" and way over my head.

Am growing Sweet Tart on Coconut Cream.  The fella I got it from is trying different rootstocks to compare the influence.  I'll soon be grafting on Mallika and Turpie.

This was the newly grafted ST spring 2016.



Early May it's holding 8 nice fruit and growing up to be a big boy.


Very interesting, how did you get it from this size a year ago to fruiting? do you have a pic of the whole tree?

simon_grow

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Re: New Zill mangoes -- The monoembryonic vs polyembryonic breakdown
« Reply #80 on: May 28, 2017, 07:03:10 PM »
Shinzo, see this thread. The Sweet Tart begins around reply #74.  http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=7511.50

Simon

Mark in Texas

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Re: New Zill mangoes -- The monoembryonic vs polyembryonic breakdown
« Reply #81 on: May 29, 2017, 07:47:09 AM »
Wow, interesting "stuff" and way over my head.

Am growing Sweet Tart on Coconut Cream.  The fella I got it from is trying different rootstocks to compare the influence.  I'll soon be grafting on Mallika and Turpie.

This was the newly grafted ST spring 2016.



Early May it's holding 8 nice fruit and growing up to be a big boy.


Very interesting, how did you get it from this size a year ago to fruiting? do you have a pic of the whole tree?

Against the practice of this group of mango growers I use a 12 mo. encapsulated food 18-4-9 with micros food, a high N food.  Water with rainwater, have a decent well aerated potting soil in a RootBuilder bottomless pot.

ST and a recently upcanned rollinia seedling to the right of it.



simon_grow

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Re: New Zill mangoes -- The monoembryonic vs polyembryonic breakdown
« Reply #82 on: June 03, 2017, 01:09:42 PM »
Cotton Candy is poly

Hey Future, did you happen to check the seed to see if the sprouts some from different segments of the seed? I read that Cotton Candy is from a Keitt x Gary, aren't they both mono? It's probably possible to get a poly fruit from two heterozygous monos but I was wondering if anyone can confirm that Cotton Candy is in fact polyembryonic.

Also, anyone else have new info on newer Zill varieties that are Poly? Thanks,

Simon

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Re: New Zill mangoes -- The monoembryonic vs polyembryonic breakdown
« Reply #83 on: June 03, 2017, 08:24:47 PM »
Cotton Candy is poly

Hey Future, did you happen to check the seed to see if the sprouts some from different segments of the seed? I read that Cotton Candy is from a Keitt x Gary, aren't they both mono? It's probably possible to get a poly fruit from two heterozygous monos but I was wondering if anyone can confirm that Cotton Candy is in fact polyembryonic.

Also, anyone else have new info on newer Zill varieties that are Poly? Thanks,

Simon

Don't recall...I am thinking Gary might be poly?

TnTrobbie

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Re: New Zill mangoes -- The monoembryonic vs polyembryonic breakdown
« Reply #84 on: June 03, 2017, 09:13:50 PM »
I have sprouted a few Garys. They were mono :). Juliette is mono as well- very slow growing and weak.
« Last Edit: June 03, 2017, 09:16:07 PM by TnTrobbie »
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Tropicdude

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Re: New Zill mangoes -- The monoembryonic vs polyembryonic breakdown
« Reply #85 on: July 28, 2017, 12:00:07 PM »
Recently watched a video on Truly Tropical channel on YouTube,  Chris says that the Pickering is Poly,  I have a tree, and never really bothered to check the seed, I always assumed it was Mono for some reason.
William
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simon_grow

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Re: New Zill mangoes -- The monoembryonic vs polyembryonic breakdown
« Reply #86 on: July 28, 2017, 02:12:26 PM »
Alex mentioned it was Mono. Maybe someone who knows Chris can clarify with her?

Simon

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Re: New Zill mangoes -- The monoembryonic vs polyembryonic breakdown
« Reply #87 on: July 28, 2017, 04:41:04 PM »
I am fairly certain it is mono.  I drop her a note and she said she would relook.

guadua

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Re: New Zill mangoes -- The monoembryonic vs polyembryonic breakdown
« Reply #88 on: August 04, 2017, 11:49:39 PM »
I planted a PPK seed and it came up as a large vigorous monoembryonic seedling. I noticed the list in this thread and truly tropical say its poly. I acquired the mango from truly tropical. Can a poly still have one dominant sprout come up and the other embryos fail? I did not see any evidence of other sprouts from the seed.   

zands

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Re: New Zill mangoes -- The monoembryonic vs polyembryonic breakdown
« Reply #89 on: August 05, 2017, 08:22:28 AM »
Recently watched a video on Truly Tropical channel on YouTube,  Chris says that the Pickering is Poly,  I have a tree, and never really bothered to check the seed, I always assumed it was Mono for some reason.

Pickering has been around a while so is almost an old school Florida mango. Thus should be mono. Chris deals w so many types mangoes she probably slipped up

simon_grow

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Re: New Zill mangoes -- The monoembryonic vs polyembryonic breakdown
« Reply #90 on: August 05, 2017, 10:48:13 AM »
I planted a PPK seed and it came up as a large vigorous monoembryonic seedling. I noticed the list in this thread and truly tropical say its poly. I acquired the mango from truly tropical. Can a poly still have one dominant sprout come up and the other embryos fail? I did not see any evidence of other sprouts from the seed.   

Polyembryonic mangos can have a seedling that is zygotic and not a clone. If you crush a leaf, does it have a citrusy smell to it or is it more like Turpentine like many other mono types?

Simon

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Re: New Zill mangoes -- The monoembryonic vs polyembryonic breakdown
« Reply #91 on: August 05, 2017, 08:01:40 PM »
I crushed a piece of leaf, but I didn't smell anything citrusy or turpentine like. It kinda just smelled like cut grass. I have a small PPK and tried a leaf from it too, but still didn't smell anything.

Photo of PPK seedling...



simon_grow

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Re: New Zill mangoes -- The monoembryonic vs polyembryonic breakdown
« Reply #92 on: August 06, 2017, 06:15:28 PM »
The majority of the Lemon Zest and Orange Sherbet seedlings have had a strong citrusy smell to it. In fact, I can't recall any of the seedlings in this family that didn't have a citrusy smell to it which leads me to believe that the majority of the seedlings are clones and the zygotic seedling died out.

Perhaps if you only get one seedling, it is one of those (rare?) cases where the Zygotic seedling won out and all the clones died off for some reason or another?

simon

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Re: New Zill mangoes -- The monoembryonic vs polyembryonic breakdown
« Reply #93 on: August 12, 2017, 11:55:17 AM »
I got a question for you guys. Given that shipping from USA can take up to 3 weeks and that Customs here is becoming more a more careful with vegetal stuff because of diseases like Xilella, purchasing scions is kind of a very risky bet for us. I've been said by another grower from Europe that rate of taking for imported scions from America is really low because of that. So I'm thinking now of another strategy to do it: Would be a safer, more successful way to get these new varieties, to bring fresh seeds of those that are poliembrionics? How long would a mango seed keep its germination capacity?

DurianLover

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Re: New Zill mangoes -- The monoembryonic vs polyembryonic breakdown
« Reply #94 on: August 12, 2017, 12:25:38 PM »
I got a question for you guys. Given that shipping from USA can take up to 3 weeks and that Customs here is becoming more a more careful with vegetal stuff because of diseases like Xilella, purchasing scions is kind of a very risky bet for us. I've been said by another grower from Europe that rate of taking for imported scions from America is really low because of that. So I'm thinking now of another strategy to do it: Would be a safer, more successful way to get these new varieties, to bring fresh seeds of those that are poliembrionics? How long would a mango seed keep its germination capacity?

Why don't you pay for EMS?  About $45. I shipped mango scions from Florida to Phillipines and it took 5 days only.

DurianLover

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Re: New Zill mangoes -- The monoembryonic vs polyembryonic breakdown
« Reply #95 on: August 12, 2017, 12:31:50 PM »
Short of unrelated questions in this thread. I sacrificed one of my Orange Sherbet to graft Sweet Tart on top. Didn't have rootstock around. Is there any way to extract propogatable material from the rootstock? As much as I like ST,  the better mango might be under.

Jose Spain

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Re: New Zill mangoes -- The monoembryonic vs polyembryonic breakdown
« Reply #96 on: August 12, 2017, 12:33:45 PM »
I got a question for you guys. Given that shipping from USA can take up to 3 weeks and that Customs here is becoming more a more careful with vegetal stuff because of diseases like Xilella, purchasing scions is kind of a very risky bet for us. I've been said by another grower from Europe that rate of taking for imported scions from America is really low because of that. So I'm thinking now of another strategy to do it: Would be a safer, more successful way to get these new varieties, to bring fresh seeds of those that are poliembrionics? How long would a mango seed keep its germination capacity?

Why don't you pay for EMS?  About $45. I shipped mango scions from Florida to Phillipines and it took 5 days only.

Because of Customs, from USA to Spain EMS is 65€, if Customs agents see a small, very light packet and 65$ for shipping, they will most likely stop it and open it. That's the problem with scions.

DurianLover

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Re: New Zill mangoes -- The monoembryonic vs polyembryonic breakdown
« Reply #97 on: August 12, 2017, 05:23:34 PM »
I got a question for you guys. Given that shipping from USA can take up to 3 weeks and that Customs here is becoming more a more careful with vegetal stuff because of diseases like Xilella, purchasing scions is kind of a very risky bet for us. I've been said by another grower from Europe that rate of taking for imported scions from America is really low because of that. So I'm thinking now of another strategy to do it: Would be a safer, more successful way to get these new varieties, to bring fresh seeds of those that are poliembrionics? How long would a mango seed keep its germination capacity?

Why don't you pay for EMS?  About $45. I shipped mango scions from Florida to Phillipines and it took 5 days only.

Because of Customs, from USA to Spain EMS is 65€, if Customs agents see a small, very light packet and 65$ for shipping, they will most likely stop it and open it. That's the problem with scions.

Nothing is allowed technically, but I had a lot of EMS traffic seeds to US, few from from US,  quite a bit within SE Asia and nothing ever got confiscated. Sometimes you just have to be bold and count your lucky stars.
You could also send first to one of the relaxed EU countries up north if you have friends there and than forward within EU.  Those countries with relaxed customs and don't care about tropical stuff, it presents zero danger to them.

zands

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Re: New Zill mangoes -- The monoembryonic vs polyembryonic breakdown
« Reply #98 on: August 12, 2017, 06:43:38 PM »
Short of unrelated questions in this thread. I sacrificed one of my Orange Sherbet to graft Sweet Tart on top. Didn't have rootstock around. Is there any way to extract propogatable material from the rootstock? As much as I like ST,  the better mango might be under.

You need to induce some branches to grow out at the root stock level. To induce you have to nick through the bark and cambium layers the right way and just a small amount. Hopefully someone can give you better details and personal experience.

https://www.bing.com/search?q=mango%20tree%20induce%20branching&qs=n&form=QBRE&sp=-1&pq=mango%20tree%20induce%20branching&sc=0-27&sk=&cvid=94AC71068C174201BFE29306E57A74C0

http://tinyurl.com/yc25kvl4


and check youtube for notching fruit trees and mango trees
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LXdexMgFobA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kq08NuQ_bfI
« Last Edit: August 12, 2017, 06:51:52 PM by zands »

DurianLover

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Re: New Zill mangoes -- The monoembryonic vs polyembryonic breakdown
« Reply #99 on: August 12, 2017, 08:22:41 PM »
Short of unrelated questions in this thread. I sacrificed one of my Orange Sherbet to graft Sweet Tart on top. Didn't have rootstock around. Is there any way to extract propogatable material from the rootstock? As much as I like ST,  the better mango might be under.

You need to induce some branches to grow out at the root stock level. To induce you have to nick through the bark and cambium layers the right way and just a small amount. Hopefully someone can give you better details and personal experience.

https://www.bing.com/search?q=mango%20tree%20induce%20branching&qs=n&form=QBRE&sp=-1&pq=mango%20tree%20induce%20branching&sc=0-27&sk=&cvid=94AC71068C174201BFE29306E57A74C0

http://tinyurl.com/yc25kvl4


and check youtube for notching fruit trees and mango trees
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LXdexMgFobA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kq08NuQ_bfI

Thank you Mr. Zands. Learned something new. Notching to promote a branch is a brand new concept to me.