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Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Orchad update 07.2013
« on: August 17, 2013, 03:32:17 PM »
Great job, Felipe, especially with the water challenges. Where do you obtain most of your planting material (seeds, plants)?
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QuotePapayas aggravate me because I am dumb enough to try them over and over again
Haha, me too! But it just *seems* like it should be delicious, and so many people like them. So clearly I'm just remembering wrong, right? Again and again.
Actually, i don't think that the phrase "seed progeny" refers to each seed but each individual seedling from each seed.
What this would mean instead is that if there as 20 percent zygotes, each seed may have one zygotic sprout, and 4 clones. It would,t mean that of 100 seeds, 80 would produce purely clonal plants.
And in this case yes, the nucellar would be the clear winner, as there would be more clones than zygotes. However, if the zygotic seedling is the largest one, then it may, in the wild, outgrow the zygotes, allowing for the variation that is seen today instead of all the plants simply being clones.
And i agree, i would pick the middle seedling if possible. Or, keep all of them and plant them in one hole, let them fruit, and keep the clone that way, if you aren't growing for rootstock.
. . . .
I found a couple articles that mention this.
http://hortsci.ashspublications.org/content/27/2/174.short
That article just mentions that there are zygotic seedlings that form, and mentioned some numbers. Here is the good article, though:
http://www.actahort.org/books/341/341_6.htm
That article specifically mentions zygotic seedlings, and states that zygotic seedlings tend to be "heavier," and that the heavy seedlings GERMINATE FIRST.
That would be interpreted as:
The first and largest seedling is most likely to be a zygotic off-type.
I think your book was being a bit vague, as i am sure that in many species, eg citrus, it is definitely a case of nucellar dominance. I think, though, that that is not so with the mango.
Well, studies from later have shown that the zygotic seedling will grow, and there is a lack in uniformity in many orchardsdue to variability, so i don'tknow how reliable that source is for that specific topic anymore.
I found this in one of my favorite fruit books, "The Propagation of Tropical Fruit Trees" by Garner, Chaudhri, et.al., 1976, regarding polyembryony in mango:
"It is generally believed that in most polyembryonic types the sexual embryo degenerates early in development, with the result that in some varieties all the seedlings are nuclear. The possibility of the survival of the zygotic seedling cannot entirely be ruled out. The presence of numerous local trees showing distinct and different characteristics from the main polyembryonic types supports this contention. In the early stages of growth it is not possible to distinguish between the sexual and nuclear seedlings, but it is generally believed that the sexual seedling is relatively weak and stunted in growth." (cites articles in Punjab Fruit Journal, 1960)
Most people here in Fiji grow mango from seed, and I've never met a mango that I didn't like. Sure, some have more fiber or less flesh than others. The chance of growing a good mango from seed is excellent.
I've had good germination from Ataulfo and zero from Kent when growing from seeds stripped of their seed coat a week earlier.
In polyembryonic citrus, the first shoots to sprout are the clones. Later, a pollinated shoot may appear.
John
I'm surprised that such a simple question hasn't been resolved experimentally.
It has. I read a study on it somewhere, will try to find it. I believe it stated that the largest shoot tended to be zygotic in most cultivars.
Not bad percentages, out of how many grafts John?
Beautiful fruit Jcaldeira. I loved the Pics of your farm, especially that Gorgeous View!!
Calamondin and Kumquat both peel easily. But a good way to tell it's a calamondin is that once you remove the peel you can easily pull apart the sections or wedges in the fruit. It looks and separates out just like you would separate a clementine or mandarin/satsuma. They also look like micro-clementine.
Kumquats are oval or round, don't separate into wedges, and usually do have a sweeter skin. But there is a tart variety too.
Anyway they are both wonderful and I hope this helps tell them apart.
Thanks for sharing your farms pics.
PS.. Did your mango grafts take?
John here the pumpkin gets called orange/yellow Jap pumpkin and squash applies to tiny immature pumpkins and some marrows.The small citrus I would call calamondin as it is a cumquat cross.The S.torvums also pop up in my yard and some people here do graft regualr asian eggplant,european eggplant and tomatoes on to them.The black sugar is a common village type here also and there are red,green,stripey,yellow and purple village sugars around and some were sources from fiji.I also grow fijian duruka (Sacharum edule) which I guess you see all over the place.
John - try to remove the outer shell next time you get miracle fruit seeds. I get 100% germination with the zip lock bag method with shells removed.
.... "the mo' sour the fruit, the mo' better the jam."
Very, very nice start to your project. You know, what you are calling kumquat looks a bit to me like calamondin.Maybe it is a calamondin. I'm not sure how to tell the difference, but will look into it. Its peel is thin, separates easily from the fruit and is edible. The Ag station called it Kumquat.
Since you don't like root bound plants, what if you simply put them into larger pots while waiting for the next planting season. I tend to think plants do better in the ground than in pots but, timing is everything....
Congratulations,
Peter
Envious of that sunset picture, that view is amazing. Nice job on the fruits, what type of squash are you growing?
Most people here in Fiji grow mango from seed, and I've never met a mango that I didn't like. Sure, some have more fiber or less flesh than others. The chance of growing a good mango from seed is excellent. . . .
I think probably people in Fiji are a lot less picky in what they call a good mango than people in Florida where they have hundreds of cultivars to choose from.