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Messages - jcaldeira

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426
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Orchad update 07.2013
« on: August 17, 2013, 03:32:17 PM »
Great job, Felipe, especially with the water challenges.   Where do you obtain most of your planting material (seeds, plants)? 

427
Karen, I'm amazed at the variety of tropical plants you are growing in Iceland.  Do you have any opportunity to use more natural sunlight? 

If you mail-order seeds, can you recommend which dealers you've had the most success with on viable seeds?

John

428
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Nut trees
« on: August 16, 2013, 04:16:56 PM »
The Tahitian Chestnut (Inocarpus fagifer) would be a great nut to grow if the climate is suitable.  It has a rather large kernel and is the most popular nut in Fiji.

It is very tasty when roasted, but rather bland when boiled.  It can be fried and salted to make a peanut-like snack.

http://www.agroforestry.net/tti/Inocarpus-Tahitianchestnut.pdf


429
A 'seedling' mango bearing fruit in only 3 years is pretty amazing.  Even if it was a year old when purchased, four years is pretty amazing.  I'd keep it just for that reason if the fruit is good.

430
Quote
Papayas aggravate me because I am dumb enough to try them over and over again

Haha, me too!  But it just *seems* like it should be delicious, and so many people like them.  So clearly I'm just remembering wrong, right?  ;)  Again and again.

I wonder if climate affects the quality of papaya.  Almost all papaya in Fiji tastes very good, and most people here would agree.  It's not that we have different varieties, either.  One key to eating a good papaya is not letting it get over-ripe.  If over-ripe, it becomes more bland and softer.  If perfectly ripe, sweeter and more texture.

In contrast, we can't grow a very sweet orange here in Fiji.  I think they need cold weather to sugar-up as well as get the traditional color people expect.   Our Valencia and navel oranges are okay, edible, but lack the sweetness.

My least favorite fruit: Pomegranate.  It's the seeds.

431
Actually, i don't think that the phrase "seed progeny" refers to each seed but each individual seedling from each seed.

What this would mean instead is that if there as 20 percent zygotes, each seed may have one zygotic sprout, and 4 clones. It would,t mean that of 100 seeds, 80 would produce purely clonal plants.

And in this case yes, the nucellar would be the clear winner, as there would be more clones than zygotes. However, if the zygotic seedling is the largest one, then it may, in the wild, outgrow the zygotes, allowing for the variation that is seen today instead of all the plants simply being clones.

And i agree, i would pick the middle seedling if possible. Or, keep all of them and plant them in one hole, let them fruit, and keep the clone that way, if you aren't growing for rootstock.

Right!

432
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Yard fruit haul 8/10/13
« on: August 11, 2013, 12:05:24 AM »
Impressive Abiu! 

433
. . . .
I found a couple articles that mention this.

http://hortsci.ashspublications.org/content/27/2/174.short

That article just mentions that there are zygotic seedlings that form, and mentioned some numbers. Here is the good article, though:

http://www.actahort.org/books/341/341_6.htm

That article specifically mentions zygotic seedlings, and states that zygotic seedlings tend to be "heavier," and that the heavy seedlings GERMINATE FIRST.

That would be interpreted as:

The first and largest seedling is most likely to be a zygotic off-type.

I think your book was being a bit vague, as i am sure that in many species, eg citrus, it is definitely a case of nucellar dominance. I think, though, that that is not so with the mango.

Interesting that the heaviest, zygotic embryos tended to sprout first, when they exist.  That does indeed contradict the earlier thinking.

However, it is equally important to note this sentence from the abstract of the Degani article:
"Based on this analysis, 22%, 20% and 13% of the seed progeny from open-pollinated '13–1' and 'Turpentine', and from 'Turpentine' caged with '13–1', respectively, contained zygotic embryos."

This implies that 78%, 80% and 87% of the polyembryonic seeds, respectively, had no zygotic embryos at all.  This suggests that 80% or so one's polyembryonic seedings will be nuclear and relatively true to type because there are not zygotic embryos present.  There's an 80% or so chance that the first sprout is NOT Zygotic.

The other article mentions "off-types" (presumably zygotic) of 0%, 4%, 24%, 36% and 64%, by variety, so here again the nuclear embryos seem to be the overall winner.

A gambler would routinely keep the second sprout to hedge her bets.   ;)

434
Well, studies from later have shown that the zygotic seedling will grow, and there is a lack in uniformity in many orchardsdue to variability, so i don'tknow how reliable that source is for that specific topic anymore.

The paragraph I quoted explicitly mentions the variability.  That doesn't mean the nuclear seedlings don't win most of the time.  In citrus, that is most certainly the case.  And not all seeds are polyembryonic.   Give us a source for the studies you mention, please.
 
Quote
I found this in one of my favorite fruit books, "The Propagation of Tropical Fruit Trees" by Garner, Chaudhri, et.al., 1976, regarding polyembryony in mango:

"It is generally believed that in most polyembryonic types the sexual embryo degenerates early in development, with the result that in some varieties all the seedlings are nuclear.  The possibility of the survival of the zygotic seedling cannot entirely be ruled out.  The presence of numerous local trees showing distinct and different characteristics from the main polyembryonic types supports this contention.   In the early stages of growth it is not possible to distinguish between the sexual and nuclear seedlings, but it is generally believed that the sexual seedling is relatively weak and stunted in growth." (cites articles in Punjab Fruit Journal, 1960)

435
Most people here in Fiji grow mango from seed, and I've never met a mango that I didn't like.  Sure, some have more fiber or less flesh than others.  The chance of growing a good mango from seed is excellent.

I've had good germination from Ataulfo and zero from Kent when growing from seeds stripped of their seed coat a week earlier.

In polyembryonic citrus, the first shoots to sprout are the clones.  Later, a pollinated shoot may appear.

John

I'm surprised that such a simple question hasn't been resolved experimentally.

It has. I read a study on it somewhere, will try to find it. I believe it stated that the largest shoot tended to be zygotic in most cultivars.

I found this in one of my favorite fruit books, "The Propagation of Tropical Fruit Trees" by Garner, Chaudhri, et.al., 1976, regarding polyembryony in mango:

"It is generally believed that in most polyembryonic types the sexual embryo degenerates early in development, with the result that in some varieties all the seedlings are nuclear.  The possibility of the survival of the zygotic seedling cannot entirely be ruled out.  The presence of numerous local trees showing distinct and different characteristics from the main polyembryonic types supports this contention.  In the early stages of growth it is not possible to distinguish between the sexual and nuclear seedlings, but it is generally believed that the sexual seedling is relatively weak and stunted in growth." (cites articles in Punjab Fruit Journal, 1960)

436
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Best Tropical Fruit Books
« on: August 10, 2013, 03:52:58 PM »
One of my favorite books on propagating tropical fruits is "The Propagation of Tropical Fruit Trees" by Garner, Chaudhri, et.al., 1976.  Although out of print, I noticed there are still a few used copies available on Amazon.

Here's the review I just wrote on Amazon.com: 

An excellent book on the propagation techniques for most popular tropical fruits.  Each chapter consists of a thorough compilation of related scientific literature up to 1976, organized well.  This book tends towards the scientific and is not for the casual gardener, but is surprising easy to read. 

The first section, titled "Materials and Methods," covers general nursery techniques, and then devotes approximately 150 pages on various methods of seed and vegetative propagation, including 50 well-illustrated pages on grafting.

The remaining 380 pages are devoted to the propagation of specific tree fruit. Chapter titles cover Cashew, Anonna, Breadfruit, Jackfruit, Carambola, Papaya, Star Apple, Durian, Rose Apple & relatives, Mangosteen, Langsat, Barbados Cherry, Mango, Sapodilla, Jaboticaba, Rambutan, Guava, and Indian Jujube.  Of the popular fruits, only Banana and Coconut seem to be missing.

Though a little dated, this is one of my favorite books because it focuses on propagation.  For more recent and general coverage of many of the same tree fruits, consider [[ASIN:1845936728 Tropical Fruits, Volume 1 (Crop Production Science in Horticulture)]] and [[ASIN:1845937899 Tropical Fruits, Volume II (Crop Production Science in Horticulture)]]

http://www.amazon.com/Propagation-Tropical-Fruit-Horticultural-Review/dp/0851983510/

John

437
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Fiji Farm Report - August 2013
« on: August 10, 2013, 12:15:55 AM »
Not bad percentages, out of how many grafts John?

We did 117 in-ground seedling grafts, mostly cleft but also some veneer grafts.  On a few seedlings we put on a couple of different varieties.  We also top-worked a couple of branches on one mature tree.  Here's the post where I described what we did: http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=5921.msg78937#msg78937

And, no, I don't know what I'm going to do with all the mangos in a few years.  :-\

438
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Fiji Farm Report - August 2013
« on: August 09, 2013, 07:32:36 PM »
Beautiful fruit Jcaldeira. :) I loved the Pics of your farm, especially that Gorgeous View!! 8)

Calamondin and Kumquat both peel easily. But a good way to tell it's a calamondin is that once you remove the peel you can easily pull apart the sections or wedges in the fruit. It looks and separates out just like you would separate a clementine or mandarin/satsuma. They also look like micro-clementine.

Kumquats are oval or round, don't separate into wedges, and usually do have a sweeter skin. But there is a tart variety too.

Anyway they are both wonderful and I hope this helps tell them apart.
Thanks for sharing your farms pics. :)

PS.. Did your mango grafts take?

I'm pretty sure mine are calamondins, now that I have criteria to compare. Thanks.

On mango grafts, we only achieved near 50-55%.  The Ag guys who helped me don't think it's important to shade the grafts (these were grafted in the field) but I disagree.  I saw condensation under the kitchen-wrap on some, and that can't be good.  We'll regraft in a month or so.

439
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: FGM: Sugar Apples & Cacao
« on: August 09, 2013, 12:52:25 AM »
Beautiful fruits!   

Does the Big Red grow reasonably true from seed?

440
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Best Tropical Fruit Books
« on: August 08, 2013, 07:46:31 PM »
Are there any good magazines or periodicals on tropical fruit culture?

441
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: What on earth is a baobab?
« on: August 07, 2013, 03:41:04 PM »
The only thing I know about Baobab is that it is a magnificent tree when mature, and that it thrives in a dry climate.  I took this photo in central Mozambique:



442
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Fiji Farm Report - August 2013
« on: August 07, 2013, 10:56:50 AM »
John here the pumpkin gets called orange/yellow Jap pumpkin and squash applies to tiny immature pumpkins and some marrows.The small citrus I would call calamondin as it is a cumquat cross.The S.torvums also pop up in my yard and some people here do graft regualr asian eggplant,european eggplant and tomatoes on to them.The black sugar is a common village type here also and there are red,green,stripey,yellow and purple village sugars around and some were sources from fiji.I also grow fijian duruka (Sacharum edule) which I guess you see all over the place.

Is there any sugar cane variety that has a reputation for being softer, easier to chew, than the black cane?  My black cane is pretty good and the best I can find locally.  If there's anything better I want to grow it.

443
A disadvantage of planting two in one hole is that they tend not to grow straight up as they would if they were alone.  Okay to leave two in a pot until the stronger one becomes obvious.

A better approach is to plant them singly but at a higher density, and cull later.  For instance, if you plan to grow them them 2 meters (6 feet) apart, plant them one meter apart and then cull out the males and less vigorous ones later.

444
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Fiji Farm Report - August 2013
« on: August 06, 2013, 03:45:57 PM »
John - try to remove the outer shell next time you get miracle fruit seeds.  I get 100% germination with the zip lock bag method with shells removed.

Thanks.  I'll try that in early October if I can fresh seeds in the U.S. at that time of year.


.... "the mo' sour the fruit, the mo' better the jam."

I'll have to remember that one!



445
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Fiji Farm Report - August 2013
« on: August 05, 2013, 11:18:50 PM »
Very, very nice start to your project.  You know, what you are calling kumquat looks a bit to me like calamondin.
Since you don't like root bound plants, what if you simply put them into larger pots while waiting for the next planting season.  I tend to think plants do better in the ground than in pots but, timing is everything....
Congratulations,
Peter
Maybe it is a calamondin.  I'm not sure how to tell the difference, but will look into it.  Its peel is thin, separates easily from the fruit and is edible.  The Ag station called it Kumquat.


446
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Fiji Farm Report - August 2013
« on: August 05, 2013, 11:15:03 PM »
Envious of that sunset picture, that view is amazing. Nice job on the fruits, what type of squash are you growing?

That's some kind of pumpkin.  No idea what variety it is, but it has a little firmer flesh than the typical U.S. pumpkin. Great cubed and roasted in the oven with a little olive oil and ground cumin.  I've been growing it each year from saved seed. 

447
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Fiji Farm Report - August 2013
« on: August 05, 2013, 07:21:13 PM »
Fiji Farm Report

Allow me to share some photos from my hobby farm with you.  The farm is only 2 years old, so most tree fruits haven't started bearing yet.  Here's some of what is in season now, which is our dry winter season. 




Last month I planted out some Longan, Purple Malay Apple and Ice Cream Bean grown from seed, and also 30 grafted Tahitian Lime and Meyer Lemon.  I don't like planting much in the dry season because it means more watering chores, but I dislike root-bound plants in bags even more. 

The shadehouse has seedlings of Blackberry Jam Fruit, Rolinia and Surinam Cherry growing.  For some reason, I'm having poor results germinating Miracle fruit seeds (2nd try).


Made some tasty and simple Kumquat marmalade, earning my kumquat tree a reprieve from the ax.  I don't like the sour flavor of the raw fruit but it makes a nice preserve.
 


On a whim, last month I grafted tomato onto a vigorous weed resembling eggplant.  I think it is Solanum Torvum.  Here's the weed and one month old flowering graft now:
 


Mango and cashew are flowering now.  I sprayed potassium nitrate (100 grams in 5 liters of water; roughly 2%) one the lower branches of two non-flowering mango trees last week and again yesterday to promote flowering.  No sign of flowering so far.

Figs are bearing, but the flavor is not as good as most figs.



First flowers on coffee!



The thing about papaya is that there's either too many or not enough of them.  My first papaya from Hawaiian seed are bearing fruit now.



Most days I enjoy just wandering around the farm to watch things grow.  Here's a sunset from the farm.


John


448
Most people here in Fiji grow mango from seed, and I've never met a mango that I didn't like.  Sure, some have more fiber or less flesh than others.  The chance of growing a good mango from seed is excellent. . . .

I think probably people in Fiji are a lot less picky in what they call a good mango than people in Florida where they have hundreds of cultivars to choose from.

True, but we also have mostly polyembryonic varieties that grow reasonably true to the parent fruit.  Many people have planted mango seeds from fruit they found especially tasty.

449
Most people here in Fiji grow mango from seed, and I've never met a mango that I didn't like.  Sure, some have more fiber or less flesh than others.  The chance of growing a good mango from seed is excellent.

I've had good germination from Ataulfo and zero from Kent when growing from seeds stripped of their seed coat a week earlier.

In polyembryonic citrus, the first shoots to sprout are the clones.  Later, a pollinated shoot may appear.

John

450
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Fruit Hunter's Book
« on: July 26, 2013, 02:09:38 AM »
I enjoyed reading the book, but found it a little disjointed.  Some of the historical information on fruit I found especially enlightening.  However, after reading one chapter, the next was often completely unrelated.  It might have benefited from at stronger coherent theme throughout the book.    Worth reading.  I'd rate it a 3.5 on Amazon's 5 point scale.

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