Author Topic: Boosting Fruit Tree Production With Honey Bees  (Read 8821 times)

Mr. Clean

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Boosting Fruit Tree Production With Honey Bees
« on: April 09, 2014, 12:15:47 PM »
Honey Bees are an important pollinator of fruit trees.  There will be a Honey Bee Symposium in Palm Beach County this "winter".  It is open to the public.  The State of Florida reserved exclusive jurisdiction to regulate honey bees, so inconsistent City, County and HOA rules are voided by the state law.   

http://www.palmbeachbeekeepers.com/page/2014-fsba-conference

You have to register the beehives with the state.  We have members with beehives in Boca Raton. 

Registered beekeepers can sell honey without any special testing or additional license under the cottage industry exception.

http://www.freshfromflorida.com/content/download/24010/486807/CottageFoodAdvisoryWithFormNumber.pdf
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bsbullie

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Re: Boosting Fruit Tree Production With Honey Bees
« Reply #1 on: April 09, 2014, 01:07:02 PM »
Despite what some may feel, honey bees are not a preferred pollinator of mangoes.

From Julia Morton  https://www.hort.purdue.edu/newcrop/morton/mango_ars.html#Blooming and Pollination

"Mango flowers are visited by fruit bats, flies, wasps, wild bees, butterflies, moths, beetles, ants and various bugs seeking the nectar and some transfer the pollen but a certain amount of self-pollination also occurs. Honeybees do not especially favor mango flowers and it has been found that effective pollination by honeybees would require 3 to 6 colonies per acre (6-12 per ha). Many of the unpollinated flowers are shed or fail to set fruit, or the fruit is set but is shed when very young. Heavy rains wash off pollen and thus prevent fruit setting. Some cultivars tend to produce a high percentage of small fruits without a fully developed seed because of unfavorable weather during the fruit-setting period."

https://bioweb.uwlax.edu/bio203/s2012/ruda_chel/reproduction.htm

You can also talk to Walter Zill about this.
- Rob

Mr. Clean

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Re: Boosting Fruit Tree Production With Honey Bees
« Reply #2 on: April 09, 2014, 02:29:15 PM »
DELETED
« Last Edit: April 16, 2014, 03:11:22 PM by Mr. Clean »
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jcaldeira

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Re: Boosting Fruit Tree Production With Honey Bees
« Reply #3 on: April 09, 2014, 02:47:54 PM »
I keep honey bees and have never seen a honey be on a mango blossom. 

I doubt that Richard Campbell's cutting of the nettles improves mango pollination from honey bees.  If anything, it's forcing other pollinators such as smaller wild bees to work the mango.
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demingcr

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Re: Boosting Fruit Tree Production With Honey Bees
« Reply #4 on: April 09, 2014, 02:51:29 PM »
Do people generally have issues with Mango pollination? Mine always seem to set far more than the tree can handle, self abort appropriately and usually have to prop up some branches that are overloaded.

Maybe on generally shy bearing varieties like Edward it may be an issue, but it seems like it may be more effective to just set out a garbage pail rather than worry about bees - flies seem to adore mango blooms.
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bangkok

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Re: Boosting Fruit Tree Production With Honey Bees
« Reply #5 on: April 09, 2014, 07:46:08 PM »
II have many bee's on my mangoflowers, they come early in the morning and around dawn. small bee's and i also have loads of other flying insects, beetles, birds, butterfly's.

zands

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Re: Boosting Fruit Tree Production With Honey Bees
« Reply #6 on: April 09, 2014, 08:10:59 PM »
If you have a beehive in your backyard like Mr Clean. I can't see how this will not lead to better mango pollination. Honey bees don't like mango blossoms too much but just by proximity you have to be getting better mango pollination than otherwise. Now that Mr Clean has posted about new beehive regulations I am for the first time going to look into a beehive. I kept bees in the past.

But mangoes are only one fruit. One must find out how good honey bees are at pollinating other tropical fruits and South Florida fruits. My guess is mangoes are the only ones they run shy of.

If you really wanted to mess with the bees put the hive on wheels and wheel it under an under performing mango tree. Then cage them in with nylon window screening. Or don't cage them in. Just be able to move it under different mango trees for a day or three and that tree just has to get a lot of good pollination
« Last Edit: April 09, 2014, 08:23:38 PM by zands »

bsbullie

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Re: Boosting Fruit Tree Production With Honey Bees
« Reply #7 on: April 09, 2014, 09:07:49 PM »
Zands - I think you need to learn a little about bee keeping.  I would not recommended do what you say above. 

Bangkok - are the bees you are seeing, are they honey bees/European honey bees or wild bees?

I guess the experts are wrong and the amatuers are right.  Again, talk to Walter.  His hives are amongst his mango trees and the bees will ignore the mango flowers to feed on clover and wild flowers.

Yes, bees do pollinate certain things and I never said they didnt, I was just commenting on mangoes.
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gunnar429

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Re: Boosting Fruit Tree Production With Honey Bees
« Reply #8 on: April 09, 2014, 09:20:20 PM »
Zands, I took a beekeeping class at fairchild farm a few weeks back.  They stressed several times that one chooses hive location carefully because once selected, the bees will continue to return to the exact same spot.  Noris was saying that they had to move the hive location for different reasons (including putting the hives in the netted mango breeding areas...(for the sake of this argument, let's pretend they were apple breeding enclosures, b/c i am no expert).  When they move the hives, she said richard has to take them home to his house (3 miles away) so that when they bring them back, the bees "forget" the old spot and come back to the hive. 

I do not wish to argue whether or not bees pollinate mangoes, and don't claim that this information is perfect, but it was what they passed along to us, from Noris and Richard's experience--bees will not be happy if their hive location is moved, unless taking them more than 3 miles away for a day or two.

I do agree with Rob that Walter knows more on the subject than I, or anyone else here in FL.  If you have other trees, however, it seems like a moot point...put the garbage can out there for mangoes (or don't if they set plenty of fruit), raise the bees for honey, and get better pollination on other fruit trees, and veggies in your yard.
~Jeff

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Re: Boosting Fruit Tree Production With Honey Bees
« Reply #9 on: April 09, 2014, 10:40:52 PM »
If you really wanted to mess with the bees put the hive on wheels and wheel it under an under performing mango tree. Then cage them in with nylon window screening. Or don't cage them in. Just be able to move it under different mango trees for a day or three and that tree just has to get a lot of good pollination

Move the hives at night, when the bees are in the hive.  If you partially block the entrance with leaves, they bees will do an orientation flight, so they can find their way back home.

I saw honey bees working my Glenn mango flowers.  Squam also saw some honey bees on his mango flowers.  I'm not saying honey bees are the "primary" pollinator of mangos, but they help.
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Mr. Clean

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Re: Boosting Fruit Tree Production With Honey Bees
« Reply #10 on: April 09, 2014, 10:44:08 PM »
I guess the experts are wrong and the amatuers are right.  Again, talk to Walter.  His hives are amongst his mango trees and the bees will ignore the mango flowers to feed on clover and wild flowers.

Bees will prioritize high nectar yielding flowers (clover) over low nectar yielding flowers (mango).  This doesn't mean bees will not pollenate low nectar flowers, just those flowers are a lower priority.
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jcaldeira

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Re: Boosting Fruit Tree Production With Honey Bees
« Reply #11 on: April 09, 2014, 11:59:23 PM »
There are many flowers that honey bees will not work for nectar or pollen.  Some flowers are shaped such that the bees' tongue can't reach the nectar.  Others don't produce a sweet enough nectar to attract them.   I don't know of any red colored flower that honey bees will work.

Regarding moving bee hives, the old saying is "three feet or three miles', meaning either move the hive less than 3 feet each day or more than 3 miles, because if the hive is moved less than 3 miles many of the field bees will go back to their old location.

Pollination of mango should not be a problem unless there are so many trees all blooming at the same time that the natural pollinators can't keep up.  In that case, I think something like Richard Campbell is doing makes sense:  The wild bee colonies (not honey bees) will 'build up' on flowers blooming before the mango, so there are abundant pollinators when mango comes into bloom.
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Coconut

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Re: Boosting Fruit Tree Production With Honey Bees
« Reply #12 on: April 10, 2014, 12:27:53 AM »
I have a nice mason bees apartment I build out of cypress wood & notice my Mason bees do visit the Mango tree, but the only tree I see the honey bee visiting are my citrus, carambola, papaya & coconut tree.  In fact with my coconut breeding program, I had to cover them from honeybee activities.  & my coconut is next to my nam doc.

So these honey bee if they are starving, cant get to a close pollinating ground, they probably hit Mango tree like starving people who will change diet to survive like The Naked & Afraid TV show???   ;D
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jc

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Re: Boosting Fruit Tree Production With Honey Bees
« Reply #13 on: April 10, 2014, 06:31:34 AM »
My yard is full of honey bees pretty much all year long. They pollinate palms, jasmine, avocados, wild flowers and clover in he lawn, mamey, carambola, etc.  so many honey bees that you can usually hear a the buzz on calm days. Between my yard and the neighbor's yard there are about 30 or so mango trees.  I look at my trees daily, especially during bloom looking for fungus, and I do occasionally observe honey bees investigating some mango trees, Neelam especially this year.  However, the honey bees' interests in the mango flowers seems to wane very fast and they tend to move on to other non mango flowers. They seem curious but get disinterested relatively quickly.

Avocado flowers are an entirely different story.  I've watched honey bees work the hell out of avocado flowers and even pry open closed flower buds. 

Based on my observations, it looks like if given options, the honey bee's interest in mango  flowers is pretty low on the list.
JC

CTMIAMI

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Re: Boosting Fruit Tree Production With Honey Bees
« Reply #14 on: April 10, 2014, 10:24:12 AM »
http://www.myavocadotrees.com/avocado-flower-type-indicator.html

In this page you will find a chapter of a book titled Avocado Flowering and pollination by Gary S. Bender. towards the end page 43 and 44 he talks about The role of bees in pollination.   
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Mark in Texas

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Re: Boosting Fruit Tree Production With Honey Bees
« Reply #15 on: April 10, 2014, 10:35:53 AM »
I have wild honey bees on my mangoes but I also have all kinds of pollinators including those mentioned.  In spite of being a very young tree I have hundreds of small fruit.....so someone is doing the dirty deed. One batch of flowers is the size of a basketball - unbelievable!

gunnar429

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Re: Boosting Fruit Tree Production With Honey Bees
« Reply #16 on: April 10, 2014, 10:41:40 AM »
I am thinking about making a home in my yard for the solitary bees.  I know at Fairchild, they use blocks of wood with holes drilled in.  Are there any other tricks to attract them beside making the structure for them?  Thanks!
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savemejebus

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Re: Boosting Fruit Tree Production With Honey Bees
« Reply #17 on: April 10, 2014, 10:58:20 AM »
I am thinking about making a home in my yard for the solitary bees.  I know at Fairchild, they use blocks of wood with holes drilled in.  Are there any other tricks to attract them beside making the structure for them?  Thanks!

I can't promise you this will work, but it might. You could dress up as a honey bee and perform a tap dance on your patio. Make sure you video it and post the results here.

zands

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Re: Boosting Fruit Tree Production With Honey Bees
« Reply #18 on: April 10, 2014, 11:05:19 AM »
http://www.bushfarms.com/beesmoving.htm
moving beehives a short distance.....not a big deal
you just trick them a bit

I agree with Mr Clean....... You have beehives right next to mango trees and they are going to help them. Even though they prefer other blossoms by a wide margin. If I had hives I would test this. On a small property (Mr Clean size) this must work. Farichild and Walter Zill have much larger properties that give the honeybees too many other choices
« Last Edit: April 10, 2014, 11:20:19 AM by zands »

bsbullie

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Re: Boosting Fruit Tree Production With Honey Bees
« Reply #19 on: April 10, 2014, 11:30:37 AM »
 ::)
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MangoFang

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Re: Boosting Fruit Tree Production With Honey Bees
« Reply #20 on: April 10, 2014, 01:29:24 PM »
...and does anyone notice the stinkier the particular variety of mango flower is
the more visits it gets....?

Wild bees (and other flying creatures) seem to really enjoy those mango trees.
But of course being out in the desert, I'm thinking maybe every pollinator here has limited
nectar choices.....but what do I know.....


Gary

bsbullie

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Re: Boosting Fruit Tree Production With Honey Bees
« Reply #21 on: April 10, 2014, 01:50:28 PM »
There is a difference between "wild bees" and "honey bees".
« Last Edit: April 10, 2014, 02:01:28 PM by bsbullie »
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snhabegger

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Re: Boosting Fruit Tree Production With Honey Bees
« Reply #23 on: April 10, 2014, 06:02:47 PM »
Just thought I'd chime in --

 
Zands - I think you need to learn a little about bee keeping.  I would not recommended do what you say above. 

Bangkok - are the bees you are seeing, are they honey bees/European honey bees or wild bees?

I guess the experts are wrong and the amatuers are right.  Again, talk to Walter.  His hives are amongst his mango trees and the bees will ignore the mango flowers to feed on clover and wild flowers.

Yes, bees do pollinate certain things and I never said they didnt, I was just commenting on mangoes.

I have two bee nests in my orchard in Thailand that started themselves -- they are some small local bee called 'nim' (don't know the English or Latin), not honey bees.  I don't know if they visit mangoes or not, they've chosen a lynchee and a jujube to build on (picture attached, can't tell if it came through or not).


« Last Edit: April 10, 2014, 06:06:06 PM by snhabegger »

zands

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Re: Boosting Fruit Tree Production With Honey Bees
« Reply #24 on: April 10, 2014, 07:44:13 PM »
http://www.australianphotography.com/23A82060-6448-11E2-9AE0005056A302E5



Bee on mango blossom says hello to bsbullie

same for these--- hi bsbullie!

http://swfbees.com/honeyplants.html
« Last Edit: April 10, 2014, 07:47:47 PM by zands »