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Tropical Fruit => Tropical Fruit Discussion => Topic started by: ScottR on May 04, 2018, 11:28:46 AM

Title: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: ScottR on May 04, 2018, 11:28:46 AM
Looks like Kilauea went off with new eruption an evacuating Pahoa where Oscar @ fruitlovers.com lives! I think it's away from were he's at but hope Oscar an family are fine.
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: sytanta on May 04, 2018, 11:58:19 AM
That's disastrous! Hope Oscar and everyone are safe!
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: barath on May 04, 2018, 12:47:53 PM
Looks like Kilauea went off with new eruption an evacuating Pahoa where Oscar @ fruitlovers.com lives! I think it's away from were he's at but hope Oscar an family are fine.

Looking at the map, I think it's actually not that far from him (maybe 2 miles?) -- I think he's outside of the "rift" zone but in the potential lava flow area (though I guess technically all of that side of Hawaii is in a potential lava flow area).  Hope things are ok, Oscar!
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: Luisport on May 04, 2018, 02:56:03 PM
a 3rd fissure has now started erupting nearby to the second fissure which started overnight.

 
   ohnoes112  04/05/2018 at 17:54
Now confirmed by HVO –> https://volcanoes.usgs.gov/volcanoes/kilauea/status.html (https://volcanoes.usgs.gov/volcanoes/kilauea/status.html)

 
   ohnoes112  04/05/2018 at 18:31
https://www.facebook.com/milekalincoln.hnn/videos/1770528166339403/?t=0 (https://www.facebook.com/milekalincoln.hnn/videos/1770528166339403/?t=0)
http://www.volcanocafe.org/the-majestic-volcanoes-of-kyushu-japan-part-i-sakurajima-and-kirishima/comment-page-1/#comment-24060 (http://www.volcanocafe.org/the-majestic-volcanoes-of-kyushu-japan-part-i-sakurajima-and-kirishima/comment-page-1/#comment-24060)
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: HIfarm on May 04, 2018, 03:09:53 PM
Hopefully Oscar is ok.  It sounds like there have been no casualties or homes lost so far.  Pahoa town has not been evacuated, in fact, people are being evacuated to Pahoa.  I think sometimes "Pahoa" is used generically to refer to the region and can be misleading.

Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: Luisport on May 04, 2018, 03:16:26 PM
Hopefully Oscar is ok.  It sounds like there have been no casualties or homes lost so far.  Pahoa town has not been evacuated, in fact, people are being evacuated to Pahoa.  I think sometimes "Pahoa" is used generically to refer to the region and can be misleading.
here they say two houses burning...

BREAKING  LeilaniEstatesEruption: First look at the two homes that caught fire after a third eruption broke out at Kaupili Street and Leilani Avenue in the #LeilaniEstates evacuation zone.

https://www.facebook.com/milekalincoln.hnn/videos/1770528166339403/?t=0 (https://www.facebook.com/milekalincoln.hnn/videos/1770528166339403/?t=0)
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: HIfarm on May 04, 2018, 03:21:19 PM
Ok, well that is new since I checked earlier this am.  Looks like the social media is quicker on this than news outlets.


here they say two houses burning...

BREAKING  LeilaniEstatesEruption: First look at the two homes that caught fire after a third eruption broke out at Kaupili Street and Leilani Avenue in the #LeilaniEstates evacuation zone.

https://www.facebook.com/milekalincoln.hnn/videos/1770528166339403/?t=0 (https://www.facebook.com/milekalincoln.hnn/videos/1770528166339403/?t=0)
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: Luisport on May 04, 2018, 05:13:46 PM
4th eruption reported now!

 http://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/category/198303/livestream (http://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/category/198303/livestream)
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: KarenRei on May 04, 2018, 05:14:45 PM
OMG, it didn't even occur to me until this moment that Oscar's place might be at risk! That would be tragic   :(

Even the gas alone... after we had an extremely high SO2 eruption at Holuhraun from Barðarbunga a few years ago, it did terrible damage to plants, even a long way away from the eruption.  It does both short term to the foliage, and acidifies the soil.  The stuff is nasty, it'd form these blue fogs; you'd feel fine when not exerting yourself, but you'd get exhausted quickly when you exerted yourself, and you'd feel bad for a good while afterwards. And metal rusted really fast in them.  We had a really high rate of sheep deaths after the eruption, too, although the exact cause is still uncertain.
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: Luisport on May 04, 2018, 05:47:12 PM
[USGS]
M5.6
May-04 21:36:46 UTC,
18km SW of Leilani Estates, Hawaii, Depth:1.0km,
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: Luisport on May 04, 2018, 05:50:38 PM
2018-05-04   21:38:23.5
06min ago
19.36    N     155.02    W     0   4.2    ISLAND OF HAWAII, HAWAII
F
 
2018-05-04   21:32:47.6
12min ago
19.49    N     155.41    W     21   5.2    ISLAND OF HAWAII, HAWAII
https://www.emsc-csem.org/#2 (https://www.emsc-csem.org/#2)
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: Luisport on May 04, 2018, 05:56:49 PM
Quake swarm starting it seams... two more quakes.

2018-05-04 21:43:53.8
06min ago
19.37 N 155.02 W 0   3.7 ISLAND OF HAWAII, HAWAII
2018-05-04 21:41:53.9
08min ago
19.32 N 154.95 W 3   3.6 HAWAII REGION, HAWAII
 
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: Luisport on May 04, 2018, 06:01:39 PM

The Leilani quakes seemed to have stopped and now Kapaaha is shaking.
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: Luisport on May 04, 2018, 06:09:02 PM
Looks like fresh output (vent) just outside the geothermal plant behind the green building on pg cam
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: nullzero on May 04, 2018, 08:01:01 PM
Good photo update of the lava flow here

https://weather.com/news/news/hawaii-lava-flow-update-pahoa-20141030

You can see a nursery burning down with the lava flow in the pictures. I hope Oscar's place is not impacted, he may not be to far from the fissures opening up  :-[
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: PahoaJo on May 04, 2018, 08:18:40 PM
Pretty sure that nursery is old footage from the 2014 flow.  As of this moment (and that could change literally at anytime), the lava is only in Leilani subdivision.  Plenty of shaking going on though. I had to run outside for the 6.9.  That was scary.
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: nullzero on May 04, 2018, 08:31:30 PM
Pretty sure that nursery is old footage from the 2014 flow.  As of this moment (and that could change literally at anytime), the lava is only in Leilani subdivision.  Plenty of shaking going on though. I had to run outside for the 6.9.  That was scary.

Picture 30, someones fruit farm in direct path of the lava flow   :'(.
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: PahoaJo on May 04, 2018, 08:38:37 PM
Yeah, that was from the 2014 flow that did almost take out Pahoa.
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: KarenRei on May 04, 2018, 08:52:18 PM
I'll never be able to mentally comprehend the Hawaiian attitude of "let the lava flow where it may".  Back in 2014 when a guy actually defended his home and everyone got mad at him for doing so.  Saying that he made the lava worse for his neighbors by directing it around his house.... but they could have all done the same thing and directed it around the whole neighborhood into unpopulated areas (there was a really obvious route for it), and it would have been more time-efficient to protect everyone en masse.  Instead they had this fatalistic, "Pele-will-take-what-she-will", "resistance-is-futile" attitude to the flow. And always seems to, in a way that I never see in any other volcanically active area.  Despite the fact that while Kilauea's eruptions are long, they're rather low flow rate, which makes things easier.

If Hawaii were like Iceland, a large chunk of the state would have been converging on Kilauea with every last industrial-scale water pump and every last piece of earthmoving equipment they can get their hands on (and importing whatever they can't, with as fast shipping as possible, regardless of the price).  Back when Eldfell erupted on Heimaey in the 1970s (in the middle of a Cod War with the UK), while the country opened up its homes to the fleeing residents, a huge number of people went in the opposite direction, out to the lava front. Icelanders were out there walking on the lava before it even cooled, directing a nonstop stream of seawater against the flow.  The eruption was right near town, and while they did lose a fair chunk of the town, not only did they manage to save part, but they more importantly stopped the flow from filling in the harbour (which would have in large part led to an abandonment of the island... no harbour, no fishing fleet, no economy, no Heimaey). 

I sometimes see people make excuses for the lack of countermeasures, like "we made tiny efforts a couple times nearly a century ago and it didn't work, therefore there's no point" attitude, despite the fact that many countries have had good success, particularly in the modern era, with much more effective techniques, modern equipment, and computer modeling of flows.  I just have trouble internalizing this fatalism.
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: palmcity on May 04, 2018, 09:06:08 PM
"resistance-is-futile" attitude

If Hawaii were like Iceland, a large chunk of the state would have been converging on Kilauea with every last industrial-scale water pump and every last piece of earthmoving equipment they can get their hands on (and importing whatever they can't, with as fast shipping as possible, regardless of the price).  Back when Eldfell erupted on Heimaey in the 1970s (in the middle of a Cod War with the UK), while the country opened up its homes to the fleeing residents, a huge number of people went in the opposite direction, out to the lava front. Icelanders were out there walking on the lava before it even cooled, directing a nonstop stream of seawater against the flow.  The eruption was right near town, and while they did lose a fair chunk of the town, not only did they manage to save part, but they more importantly stopped the flow from filling in the harbour (which would have in large part led to an abandonment of the island... no harbour, no fishing fleet, no economy, no Heimaey). 

Karen, this is a site with over 20 pictures of the 1973 Eldfell Eruption and pictures of the town/people/ & lava flow.
https://www.theatlantic.com/photo/2017/01/the-eldfell-eruption-of-1973/514394/ (https://www.theatlantic.com/photo/2017/01/the-eldfell-eruption-of-1973/514394/)
I would love to see the seawater hitting the lava on youtube but I guess no luck for 1973 events...
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: KarenRei on May 04, 2018, 09:27:13 PM
Karen, this is a site with over 20 pictures of the 1973 Eldfell Eruption and pictures of the town/people/ & lava flow.
https://www.theatlantic.com/photo/2017/01/the-eldfell-eruption-of-1973/514394/ (https://www.theatlantic.com/photo/2017/01/the-eldfell-eruption-of-1973/514394/)
I would love to see the seawater hitting the lava on youtube but I guess no luck for 1973 events...

If you ever make it out to Iceland, I definitely recommend checking out the volcano museum on Heimaey; it's excellent.  They built it around an "archaeological dig" into the lava flow /tephra fall where it had been overflowing houses, so it's like this 1970s version of Pompei - and as you walk around, the audio guide system walks you through the events of the night of the eruption and the days that followed, in relation to the environment that you're standing in.  While only one person died (an old man, (likely wrongly) accused of being a looter), the fear was palpable - because the volcano was supposed to be extinct, and there was no warning whatsoever (the only quakes were too small to be felt, and didn't look to seismologists like an eruption precursor).  People just went to sleep one night next to an "extinct" volcano in the middle of their normal lives, and then suddenly there were 150-meter-high fountains of lava right next to them.  And they were stuck, because the harbour was the only way out, there were thousands of people, and there was no evacuation plan.  Fishing boats - both from the island and from elsewhere in the country - were packed full of people, infants to the sick to the elderly, to get them out.

There's all sorts of little "slice of life" things scattered across the island, since the eruption changed things so utterly.  One of my favorite examples is just a little marker on a lava field.  A sign talks about the history of swimming on Heimaey - how they'd been on this many-decades-long struggle to get a proper public swimming pool, and each attempt never went anywhere for one reason or another.  And then they finally, *finally* managed to get the money for it, and built it, one of the nicest pools in Iceland.

And then the next day, Eldfell erupted.  The lava under the marker is over a dozen meters thick.

BTW, the picture in your link, of an arch with a cross sticking out of the tephra?  It says "I Live, And You Will Live"
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: simon_grow on May 04, 2018, 09:29:04 PM
Oscar, I hope you stay safe and your property gets spared. This must be an extremely frightening event for all on the island.

Simon
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: Jessg333 on May 04, 2018, 09:29:35 PM
I hope Oscar and all you guys near the flow area are safe and your property untouched 🙏 sad to see such devestation in Kauai with the floods and now you guys on Big Island 😢
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: palmcity on May 04, 2018, 09:37:59 PM
I hope Oscar & All are safe too on the Island.

There are many videos after all of the 1973 spraying of seawater on the lava in Eldfell eruption. This BBC video is the clearest and has the 1973 events along with current events:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=blDXgde1Tpg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=blDXgde1Tpg)

I really liked this Video showing zoomed in closeup lava flow & describing what is in the flow & remaining rocks etc.
Fantastic Icelandic volcano footage from David Attenborough's documentary on Iceland's volcanoes. Filmed at Eldfell Heimaey, during an eruption that started on January 23rd 1973. He also gives some nice information. Worth watching
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PRD4YZx3g2k (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PRD4YZx3g2k)

This video has the best compilation of old and new events with different plate movements etc. & talking of air traffic & sulfur gas  emissions/ash/etc. and it is more current with best picture quality from BBC
Iceland scenic views &World discussion of volcanic activity/future events etc. BBC
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=blDXgde1Tpg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=blDXgde1Tpg)
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: KarenRei on May 04, 2018, 11:16:26 PM
Funny, the second video is blocked in Iceland, of all places. I'm watching the first video and keep cringing at the bad pronunciation, mixing up of place names and other such things  ;)

Are there any sites that are mapping where the lava flows in Hawaii have reached?
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: PahoaJo on May 05, 2018, 12:26:57 AM
Funny, the second video is blocked in Iceland, of all places. I'm watching the first video and keep cringing at the bad pronunciation, mixing up of place names and other such things  ;)

Are there any sites that are mapping where the lava flows in Hawaii have reached?

There are many Puna/Lava related groups on Facebook.  Those groups, along with a website called Punaweb have the most updated sources of information.
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: Luisport on May 05, 2018, 03:01:01 PM
Fissures got a lot bigger overnight. Way more lava erupting.
https://www.facebook.com/travis.sanders.35/videos/1914908885195696/ (https://www.facebook.com/travis.sanders.35/videos/1914908885195696/)
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: Luisport on May 05, 2018, 03:32:39 PM
BREAKING: Happening Now!

7th eruption in Leilani Estates.

The 7th and possibly longest/largest fissure has opened up in Leilani Estates.

Reported By USGS: “Likely going to be a long duration event.”
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: HIfarm on May 05, 2018, 03:45:33 PM
According to the news this am, we are now up to 8 fissures in Leilani.
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: Luisport on May 05, 2018, 03:50:52 PM
LEILANI ESTATES, Hawaii - Hawaii Fire Department reports extremely dangerous conditions due to high levels of Sulfur Dioxide gas in the evacuation area.

full article:
http://www.bigislandvideonews.com/2018/05/04/10-am-eruption-update-dangerous-levels-of-sulfur-dioxide-gas-reported/ (http://www.bigislandvideonews.com/2018/05/04/10-am-eruption-update-dangerous-levels-of-sulfur-dioxide-gas-reported/)
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: ScottR on May 05, 2018, 07:26:58 PM
Luis, thank you for the continued up dates, we haven't heard from Oscar yet but i think the worst for him might be the gases if the wind blows his way! He's outside of Pahoa  so unless fissures grow more which they can an more open up his way he should be fine.
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: HIfarm on May 05, 2018, 09:04:09 PM
I don't know for sure but I suspect Oscar may be traveling -- his site is closed at present.  Even if it is not right in his neighborhood, the SO2 can really do a number on plants -- hopefully his will be ok.  There are at least 2 or 3 collections of rare palms in the Leilani subdivision and I suspect this eruption might be quite a blow to palm enthusiasts.
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: Luisport on May 06, 2018, 03:43:39 AM
PM Breaking News
@PMBreakingNews
Hawaii Volcano Eruptions:
-  8 eruptive fissures in Leilani Estates
- At least five homes destroyed due to lava
- 8 earthquakes magnitude 4.5 or over hit the island in the last 48 hours
- USGS: "We see no slow down in activity"



Allyson Blair

@AllysonBlairTV
Sulfur Dioxide Exposure Update: Just heard from Dr. Bronstein, from the DOH, he says masks bought from the store, even the N-95's will do little to protect from SO2. W/ levels as high as they are in Puna- staying indoors may not be enough either. Should leave area. #Kilauea

04:27 - 6 de mai de 2018
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: fruitlovers on May 06, 2018, 06:31:03 AM
Hello folks, i am fine, my family is fine, my trees are fine, there are no gases. Scariest have been all the constant small tremors. Yesterday there were 2 big quakes, one 5.6 and another 6.9. Missed both of those shakers as flew to Kauai on that day for vacation. My place is about 3 miles from active zone, maybe about 2.5 as the crow flies. Am not downhill from active zone, so am fine for now unless there are new fissures opening right above our place. Lava is like any liquid subtance, and flows downhill. So unless the breakout is right above us will not be affected.
Really most troubling of all, not brought up by any of you, is possibility of lava flowing over roads that lead to our farm. If that happens we are locked out. Roads are long things, so probability of lava flowing over them is way greater than it flowing over particular house or farm. If you can't access your place, then it's almost as bad as losing it. Unless you rent a helicopter.
There is a lot of misinformation and dramatization in the news, like the one about Pahoa belng evacuated. The best source of news right now is the USGS website. Good place to start https://volcanoes.usgs.gov/volcanoes/kilauea/multimedia_chronology.html
About Karen's point of stopping lava, i wish she were right, but she isn't. If she thinks she can do it i welcome her to fly over and try it. It has been attempted here several times before and always failed. It's sort of like people that think they can stop a hurricane or an earthquake. Well maybe some future century, but not possible yet.
Thanks for everyone's concern. Keep in mind that the greatest danger here is to property, land, roads, trees, wild animals, and not life and limb. This is a shield volcano, not like Mt. St. Helens. Lava here is usually very slow moving, there is plenty of time to get out of harm's way. Harder to move a house or a farm.
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: simon_grow on May 06, 2018, 08:18:23 AM
Glad to see you, your family and your trees are fine Oscar. Hopefully the lava doesn’t flow over your access roads. Stay safe Everyone.

Simon
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: roblack on May 06, 2018, 08:34:28 AM
Happy to hear you and your home are okay Oscar. Wishing you and all your family, friends, and neighbors well and that this tragedy soon comes to an end.
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: Mark in Texas on May 06, 2018, 08:38:41 AM
Good news Oscar.  I witnessed the progression of lava across the road, the explosion of trees, etc. in a flow down your way in the 80's.  It is scary but also fascinating.   Good luck!
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: Luisport on May 06, 2018, 10:41:40 AM
One pregnant hiker kiled on Hawaii!
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: ScottR on May 06, 2018, 11:00:42 AM
Good to hear from you Oscar an glad all is good so far, yeah road access that would be terrible to be lock out as you say from property.
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: sytanta on May 06, 2018, 11:04:11 AM
Great to hear from you and to know that you're safe Oscar!
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: AnnonaMangoLord45 on May 06, 2018, 11:31:19 AM
Thank God your safe Oscar
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: KarenRei on May 06, 2018, 11:38:18 AM
So great to hear that you're okay and the gas isn't too bad - that was my biggest concern!  Hope the lights are staying on.  Up here we don't normally have to deal with the "isolated people getting cut off" problem; volcanoes frequently take out major roads via jökulhlaup (huge volcanic outburst floods which can be several times bigger than the flood stage of the amazon river), but you can get past them by going the other way around the island.  Huge inconvenience, but there is a workaround.

As for me controlling your lava, I don't think I can fit that into my schedule at the moment  ;)  But if the residents of Leilani Estates wanted to contract with the government of Iceland, I'm sure they'd be glad to send a team.  I imagine we'd be competing for the contract with Sicily,  who has twice successfully redirected lava flows from Mount Etna.  Of course, even this was decades old tech (before we even had computer modeling), let alone the century-old tech last attempted on Hawaii  :)  I suppose we could also argue that lava redirection doesn't work because the 1669 attempt by villagers of Catania using pickaxes didn't work  ;)

$3m barrier by the tourist complex on Mount Etna.  Estimated to have prevented up to $25m in damage.

(http://volcano.oregonstate.edu/vwdocs/volc_images/europe_west_asia/J21.jpg)

(http://volcano.oregonstate.edu/vwdocs/volc_images/europe_west_asia/J19.jpg)

The other barrier, to protect populated areas. One minor breach, but a small secondary barrier contained it.

(http://volcano.oregonstate.edu/vwdocs/volc_images/europe_west_asia/J20.jpg)

I do understand (although I have trouble internalizing it) the cultural resistance on Hawaii to interfering with volcanism.  Sort of like how you have such resistance to geothermal energy projects, while we love them up here (we actually have one plant producing power directly from a magma chamber).  To an outsider, the notion of deferring to the volcano it just comes across like casting ohelo berries into the crater once did. The vikings here did have a volcano "god", the giant Surtr, but he was more like a demon / devil, not one to be respected. If you had a problem with Surtr misbehaving, you'd appeal to the Æsir to stop him.  ;)

Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: palmcity on May 06, 2018, 01:02:01 PM
Am not downhill from active zone, so am fine for now unless there are new fissures opening right above our place. Lava is like any liquid subtance, and flows downhill. So unless the breakout is right above us will not be affected.

The best source of news right now is the USGS website. Good place to start https://volcanoes.usgs.gov/volcanoes/kilauea/multimedia_chronology.html (https://volcanoes.usgs.gov/volcanoes/kilauea/multimedia_chronology.html)

About Karen's point of stopping lava, i wish she were right, but she isn't. If she thinks she can do it i welcome her to fly over and try it. It has been attempted here several times before and always failed. It's sort of like people that think they can stop a hurricane or an earthquake. Well maybe some future century, but not possible yet.
Lava here is usually very slow moving, there is plenty of time to get out of harm's way. Harder to move a house or a farm.
I am glad your ok & hope all survive for another day.

http://volcano.oregonstate.edu/hawaiian (http://volcano.oregonstate.edu/hawaiian)
http://volcano.oregonstate.edu/flow-rates (http://volcano.oregonstate.edu/flow-rates)

Both locations have similar areas of fissures and both have volcanic activity frequently vs. much less in continental U.S. However Iceland is Latitude about 64.9631 North vs. Hawaii Big Island 19.5429 degrees North. Average sea temperature in Iceland is about 46 F vs. Big Island about 80 F. Air temperature ex. Reykjavik about 26F - 55F  vs. Big Island about 75 -90 F winter to summer.

It has already been proven that lava can be diverted if hot moving lava is cooled enough to form a significant enough blob to divert the hotter moving stream.

As you can tell, the Big Island is at a worst starting point to try to cool the hot mass with available cooler resources and the resources are not as cool as what is present in Iceland. So a much larger supply of warmer water would be needed to cool a slow moving mass of lava as you described presently for the Big Island.

I personally think it would be possible to divert the flow from some areas onto other areas if enough water were used. I think it would be unlikely to succeed in diverting a fast moving flow with a lot of volume being pushed up from a fissure (like a 60 mph stream of lava as has been reported after large volcano eruptions) unless a trench area had previously been dug.

In the U.S. the military risks lives on U.S. soil and abroad to save liberty & our freedom.

In the U.S. anyone else sending another into harms way with unacceptable risks is open to lawsuits. A building can be rebuilt and a tree replaced. It is unlikely that you will ever see the same attempt made in Iceland... repeated in any part of the Big Island.
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: zands on May 06, 2018, 01:06:41 PM
I do understand (although I have trouble internalizing it) the cultural resistance on Hawaii to interfering with volcanism.  Sort of like how you have such resistance to geothermal energy projects, while we love them up here (we actually have one plant producing power directly from a magma chamber).  To an outsider, the notion of deferring to the volcano it just comes across like casting ohelo berries into the crater once did. The vikings here did have a volcano "god", the giant Surtr, but he was more like a demon / devil, not one to be respected. If you had a problem with Surtr misbehaving, you'd appeal to the Æsir to stop him.  ;)

Hosing down the lava flow in 1973...... spraying of seawater on the lava in Eldfell eruption in Iceland to stop it from filling in a harbor full of fishing boats. In the video go to 33 minutes in. The villagers were able to stop the lava
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=blDXgde1Tpg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=blDXgde1Tpg)    use freeVPN  option on the Opera browser to see blocked youtube videos

Video Was posted above by Mr PalmCity
Oscar --glad everthing is OK and hope it stays this way.
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: Luisport on May 06, 2018, 01:13:38 PM
One pregnant hiker kiled on Hawaii!
Sorry, this death wasn't related with volcanic activity...
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: KarenRei on May 06, 2018, 02:55:47 PM
Sea temperature is pretty much irrelevant.  Basaltic lava erupts at around 1100°.  So if you're spraying freezing seawater (0°), there's a temperature difference of  1100°C.  If you're spraying hot 30° seawater, you have a temperature difference of 1070°C.  Not a really meaningful difference!  :)  Even if you assume the water never reaches anywhere near the temperature of the lava, most of the energy water takes away from spraying it on lava comes from the state change to boiling regardless - 2087J/g, while changing the temperature of water is only 4,184J/g-°C.  The phase change energy is equivalent to nearly 500°C of temperature change, compared to around a maximum possible seawater temperature difference of 30°C.  So even if you assume a worst-case difference of 30° and assume that the steam never gets higher than 100° (despite touching a substance that can be up to 1100°C), it would only be a 5% difference in energy.

Water spraying is of course only one way.  With Mount Etna, the successful means used were just building berms.  Indeed, the guy who saved his house in Hawaii in 2014 did it by building berms.  It's very cost effective.  The least effective technique, historically, has been the one overwhelmingly used in Hawaii (bombing).   But even with that, that was a really primitive method, using outdated, small, unguided bombs haphazardly deployed without regard to impact modeling or flow simulation. Even just knowing what materials you're hitting makes a huge difference in bomb penetration.

There's also new techniques that haven't even had a chance to be tested yet (remember, the successful redirects were all in the 1970s and early 1980s, there hasn't been need for new attempts since then... that's ages as far as tech goes).  One, for example, is chemical deflection; you dump carbonate rock (such as limestone) in front of the flow, which reacts with the flow to cool it and reduce its viscosity (ability to flow).  Works well in testing, but there's never been a chance to actually try it out in the real world.
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: KarenRei on May 06, 2018, 03:30:35 PM
These sort of people... this is something that I understand, on a conscious level... but have trouble internalizing:

https://youtu.be/_1gFhY6iq8I?t=124

So the neighbors are left to try to defend everything their own with comparable tiny resources compared to an organized effort  :(  Like the guy out there with a garden house, which is a totally meaningless amount of water compared to what an industrial pump can deliver.
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: palmcity on May 06, 2018, 03:36:23 PM
Sea temperature is pretty much irrelevant.  Basaltic lava erupts at around 1100°.  So if you're spraying freezing seawater (0°), there's a temperature difference of  1100°C.  If you're spraying hot 30° seawater, you have a temperature difference of 1070°C.  Not a really meaningful difference!  :)  Even if you assume the water never reaches anywhere near the temperature of the lava, most of the energy water takes away from spraying it on lava comes from the state change to boiling regardless - 2087J/g, while changing the temperature of water is only 4,184J/g-°C.  The phase change energy is equivalent to nearly 500°C of temperature change, compared to around a maximum possible seawater temperature difference of 30°C.  So even if you assume a worst-case difference of 30° and assume that the steam never gets higher than 100° (despite touching a substance that can be up to 1100°C), it would only be a 15% difference in energy.
...I would say huge disagree as the cooling substance is water...........
...The colder water temperature is very significant for cooling............
You are forgetting quite a bit...  ;) Water boils at sea level pressure at 100 C.... Thus the cooling occurs only from the current water temperature up to 100 C. unless under more pressure. (They did not put your lava flow in a pressure cooker to allow the water to stay in liquid form above 100 C. did they Karen  ;) )

Thus a few degrees C. cooler is very significant as approximately 100 C is the max. for heat transfer of cooling lava at sea level pressure....    ;)



Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: KarenRei on May 06, 2018, 03:42:05 PM
Sea temperature is pretty much irrelevant.  Basaltic lava erupts at around 1100°.  So if you're spraying freezing seawater (0°), there's a temperature difference of  1100°C.  If you're spraying hot 30° seawater, you have a temperature difference of 1070°C.  Not a really meaningful difference!  :)  Even if you assume the water never reaches anywhere near the temperature of the lava, most of the energy water takes away from spraying it on lava comes from the state change to boiling regardless - 2087J/g, while changing the temperature of water is only 4,184J/g-°C.  The phase change energy is equivalent to nearly 500°C of temperature change, compared to around a maximum possible seawater temperature difference of 30°C.  So even if you assume a worst-case difference of 30° and assume that the steam never gets higher than 100° (despite touching a substance that can be up to 1100°C), it would only be a 15% difference in energy.
...I would say huge disagree as the cooling substance is water...........
...The colder water temperature is very significant for cooling............
You are forgetting quite a bit...  ;) Water boils at sea level pressure at 100 C.... Thus the cooling occurs only from the current water temperature up to 100 C. unless under more pressure. (They did not put your lava flow in a pressure cooker to allow the water to stay in liquid form above 100 C. did they Karen  ;) )

Thus a few degrees C. cooler is very significant as approximately 100 C is the max. for heat transfer of cooling lava at sea level pressure....    ;)

Please re-read my post.  You're forgetting that the energy required to convert water at just under the boiling point, to steam, is much more than the energy required to raise water from just above freezing to the boiling point. 

To put it in an easier way to envision: put a pot of water on the stove and turn it on high.  How long does it take to reach boiling?  A couple minutes maybe?  Now how long does it take the pot to boil dry?  Much longer, right?  That's because it takes far more energy to convert water to steam than it does to bring it up to the boiling point.

And beyond that, you are incorrectly assuming that steam is never hotter than 100°C.  Around here, for example, the steam we use for geothermal power plants is around 250°C.  The exact temperature steam will reach depends on the situation, but it does not stop at 100°C.  But that's more of a side point; the primary issue is that most of the energy in boiling water lies in the phase change, not bringing the water temperature up to 100°C.
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: palmcity on May 06, 2018, 03:46:00 PM
Sea temperature is pretty much irrelevant.  Basaltic lava erupts at around 1100°.  So if you're spraying freezing seawater (0°), there's a temperature difference of  1100°C.  If you're spraying hot 30° seawater, you have a temperature difference of 1070°C.  Not a really meaningful difference!  :)  Even if you assume the water never reaches anywhere near the temperature of the lava, most of the energy water takes away from spraying it on lava comes from the state change to boiling regardless - 2087J/g, while changing the temperature of water is only 4,184J/g-°C.  The phase change energy is equivalent to nearly 500°C of temperature change, compared to around a maximum possible seawater temperature difference of 30°C.  So even if you assume a worst-case difference of 30° and assume that the steam never gets higher than 100° (despite touching a substance that can be up to 1100°C), it would only be a 15% difference in energy.
...I would say huge disagree as the cooling substance is water...........
...The colder water temperature is very significant for cooling............
You are forgetting quite a bit...  ;) Water boils at sea level pressure at 100 C.... Thus the cooling occurs only from the current water temperature up to 100 C. unless under more pressure. (They did not put your lava flow in a pressure cooker to allow the water to stay in liquid form above 100 C. did they Karen  ;) )

Thus a few degrees C. cooler is very significant as approximately 100 C is the max. for heat transfer of cooling lava at sea level pressure....    ;)

Please re-read my post.  You're forgetting that the energy required to convert water at just under the boiling point, to steam, is far more than the energy required to raise water from just above freezing to the boiling point. 

To put it in an easier way to envision: put a pot of water on the stove and turn it on high.  How long does it take to reach boiling?  A couple minutes maybe?  Now how long does it take the pot to boil dry?  Many times longer, right?  That's because it takes far more energy to convert water to steam than it does to bring it up to the boiling point.

And beyond that, you are incorrectly assuming that steam is never hotter than 100°C.  Around here, for example, the steam we use for geothermal power plants is around 250°C.  The exact temperature steam will reach depends on the situation, but it does not stop at 100°C.  But that's more of a side point; the primary issue is that most of the energy in boiling water lies in the phase change, not bringing the water temperature up to 100°C.
The geothermal plants are using pressure to increase the steam temperature. ... You must mention pressure to increase steam temperature...
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: KarenRei on May 06, 2018, 03:48:59 PM
No. Pressure (which is natural, not added) is what allows it to stay liquid at high temperatures.  When you let the pressure off, you have 250°C steam. Gas phase.  Steam is just like any other gas, and can reach any temperature (between its boiling point and the point where it decomposes to hydrogen and oxygen at thousands of degrees).  There's nothing magical about steam that constrains it to a single temperature.

But this is beside the point... the point is that it takes many times more energy to convert 100° water into 100° steam than it takes to convert 0° water to 100° water.  Put a pot of water on the stove and see for yourself.

And *that* is beside the point, in that water spraying is just one way of many to stop lava.  And that lava diversion attempts in the 1970s and 1980s were in general very successful (and cost effective), and that's with four-decade-old tech.  And that Hawaii seems to be the only place in the world that has this anti-diversion, "let Pele take what she will" attitude.  Where even the guy who builds a berm around his own house feels the need to throw offerings to Pele into the lava to apologize for his insolence.  And of all the places... Kilauea is a really low flow rate volcano, a couple cubic meters per second.  It makes their task so much easier than almost any other volcanoes in the world that threaten people with lava. For comparison, when Bárðarbunga erupted here, the eruption peaked at 10000 cubic meters per second, and was in the thousands of cubic meters per second for much of a year.  Eldfell's flow rate was low by Icelandic standards, starting at "only" 100 cubic meters per second.
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: fruitlovers on May 06, 2018, 04:09:46 PM
Thanks everyone for your good wishes. Just to be clear, i am not at all against attempts to divert lava. What you have to understand is that circumstances here are a LOT different than in Iceland. Attempts to stop love were done here in in the 1970's and 1980's (is that a century ago?) using bulldozers and other heavy equipment to create trenches, also explosives to divert flow from vents. Both failed miserably. Water also does not stop lava, even a whole ocean full of water. As flagrant proof of this consider that this whole island chain came up from bottom of ocean, 5 miles up of lava creating these islands in deep ocean. It's not like trying to put out a forest fire. Lava also goes through any barrier, because it can melt even strongest metals. Only temporary diversions are possible, and then there is the problem that you are diverting the lava and making it somebody else's problem, and you are liable for problems you cause them. This is not a vast uninhabited expanse like Iceland! All the considerations that you talk about resistance is from some Hawaiian people here, but they are a very tiny minority of the population. Also keep in mind that they don't (currently) run the government. If a way was possible it would definitely be considered, has been considered, and has been rejected. Anyway i don't want to get into these discussions too much, too many other things on my mind, as you might imagine?
The lava has been flowing continuously here for over 35 years. It's the longest non stop volcanic eruption on the planet. It's only in the news again because it currently is flowing in a small area that is residential.That area has about 1000 residents. All the other times you don't hear about the lava eruptions, even when the eruptions are a lot more giant, because houses are not in danger. But we are dealing with lava every day, not just this one week when it's in the news.
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: palmcity on May 06, 2018, 04:15:28 PM
No. Pressure (which is natural, not added) is what allows it to stay liquid at high temperatures.  When you let the pressure off, you have 250°C steam. Gas phase.  Steam is just like any other gas, and can reach any temperature (between its boiling point and the point where it decomposes to hydrogen and oxygen at thousands of degrees).  There's nothing magical about steam that constrains it to a single temperature.
Under natural pressure under the ground water is still under pressure and can be a liquid at higher than 100 C. and it will vary with the pressure (natural or not). The same goes for steam under pressure and the time it converts back to water will vary with the temperature and pressure... And yes it will cool once out at sea level pressure at about 100 C convert back to water & no it's not magical.

Water sprayed on lava at sea level pressure will leave the lava at 100 C (and I did not mention salts as yes it will be a little higher temperature with the bonds but salt water is both at Iceland & Hawaii..).

And the point is yes the lower temperature water will give a lower temperature to the lava and yes it takes a lot lot lot of small amounts to lower the high lava temperature which is obvious..(also obvious is that the evaporation process is part of the lowering of temperature).. The water temperature is not insignificant when multiplied by volume.
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: KarenRei on May 06, 2018, 04:39:34 PM
Picture time.

I fill a glass measuring cup with half a cup of tapwater and set it in a microwave for 30 minutes.  The microwave will deliver energy to the water at a constant rate

(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/973/41891893412_859c9e5876_k.jpg)

A minute and a half in (stopped the microwave a bit late), and the water is at a nice healthy rolling boil.  The temperature has risen from tapwater temperature to boiling.

(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/911/41036723095_73c92461ac_k.jpg)

6 minutes in: the water level has reduced to 1/3rd cup

(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/979/41891901422_033bcce128_k.jpg)

15 minutes in and the cup finally runs dry:

(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/906/28064998068_50246a9a90_k.jpg)

Note: 1 1/2 minutes to raise the water to 100°.  Another 13 1/2 minutes to actually boil it off. What does this tell you about how much energy is required to raise the temperature to 100°, vs. convert the 100° water to steam?  And given this ratio, what does that tell you about how meaningful the starting temperature is?
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: fruitlovers on May 06, 2018, 04:53:33 PM
Forgot to add, diversion of lava is only attemptable when lava is flowing and you can attempt to redirect it into a channel. Right now the lava is not flowing, it is coming straight up out of the s,,from new magma intrrusion out of 9 fissures (huge gound cracks). So what do you propose, injecting ocean water straight into the ground? There is no piped water in that area.  Where do you get all this water and how do you pump it? The ocean is several miles from current event. And soon all roads to ocean may be blocked by lava. All very nice hypotheticals that ain't gonna happen here.
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: KarenRei on May 06, 2018, 05:13:41 PM
Attempts to stop love were done here in in the 1970's and 1980's (is that a century ago?) using bulldozers and other heavy equipment to create trenches, also explosives to divert flow from vents

What attempts in the 1980s are you talking about?  The only that I'm aware of in the 1970s was an experimental bombing run.   I'm aware of a berm attempt in the 1960s, but it was laughably undersized, 1,5-3 meters tall (I can *see over* a 1,5 meter berm  :Þ)  If there were some others, I would be interested in them.

Quote
Water also does not stop lava, even a whole ocean full of water

So when a lava flow hits the ocean, it just keeps going?  Of course not , it hardens instantly.  Yes, over millions of eruptions over geological timeperiods it builds up islands. But that's not what we're talking about.

Here's a lava flow with 1000 times the flow volume of Kilauea:

(http://ice2015.no/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/Bardarbunga-Lava-Flow.jpg)

Here it is flowing into the Jökulsár á Fjöllum:

(http://carnetdelumiere.com/data/img/img5419a5238aad2f.jpg)

Monstrous lava flow meets water:

(http://carnetdelumiere.com/data/img/img541af4154ea99f.JPG)

Surely the lava's going to win, right? 

... nope.

(http://carnetdelumiere.com/data/img/img5419a52ab2856f.jpg)

It shifted the riverbank a bit east, but in general, the river still flows in its original path, and it acted as a wall to stop the flow from going further east.

This was an eruption with three orders of magnitude higher flow rate than Kilauea.  And it reached the river right near the start of the event.  This thing was so massive that it didn't even start forming lava tubes for months - it just flowed on the surface like a molten river for dozens of kilometers, so far away that you couldn't even see the eruption - just the glowing river of lava:

(https://www.extremeiceland.is/media/6771/iceland-volcano.jpg)

But a shallow highlands river beat it. Yes, pack on a million eruptions in a row, and of course you'd build over the river, damming into a lake or whatnot. But that's not the issue at hand.  Lava does not "go through any barrier".  Indeed, it makes its own barriers to itself in the process of erupting.  Barriers that it can't melt, because it is... well, itself.  A lava flow has never melted its way through a basalt berm, whether natural or artificial; it's never happened, and can't happen.  Overtopped, if it's too low?  Sure.  But melted?  No.

(And for the record, artificial materials have even higher melting points.  A hot basaltic eruption may be 1100°C, but steel melts at over 1600°C)

Quote
and then there is the problem that you are diverting the lava and making it somebody else's problem, and you are liable for problems you cause them

The same could be said about floodwater, but that doesn't stop people from doing flood control.  You divert floodwaters from where they'll do the most damage to where they'll do the least.  And you have plans already in place for where you would divert them in a flood scenario, and discourage people from building in the path. 

Quote
This is not a vast uninhabited expanse like Iceland!

Heimaey was (and is) far more densely populated than Pahoa and Leilani Estates.  And Mount Etna, which was successfully diverted twice, is pretty much the opposite of an uninhabited expanse.

(https://mustseeplaces.eu/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/mount-etna-italy.jpg)

Quote
All the considerations that you talk about resistance is from some Hawaiian people here, but they are a very tiny minority of the population. Also keep in mind that they don't (currently) run the government. If a way was possible it would definitely be considered, has been considered, and has been rejected. Anyway i don't want to get into these discussions too much, too many other things on my mind, as you might imagine?

No, no, I get it... I should let it drop. I'm sorry.  It's just painful to see people lose everything because their government - with public support - has no interest in trying to help them.  I don't mean to be adding stress to you when you're in the middle of this.  :(  Volcanic disasters hit home for me because they're always a threat here too.  The whole south side of the Reykjavík metro area is built on relatively young lava, and the volcano that made it still very much has an active magma chamber.
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: palmcity on May 06, 2018, 05:44:10 PM
I fill a glass measuring cup with half a cup of tapwater and set it in a microwave for 30 minutes.  The microwave will deliver energy to the water at a constant rate

(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/973/41891893412_859c9e5876_k.jpg)

A minute and a half in (stopped the microwave a bit late), and the water is at a nice healthy rolling boil.  The temperature has risen from tapwater temperature to boiling.
If insignificant:::: Put your hand in the microwave for the first minute and a half...   ::)
...Please don't....Please don't...Please don't...

...Also tell everyone that heats their water up less than 100 C in their home, they should call their supplier & pay nothing for that part of the electric/gas bill as it is really insignificant ...
Please don't.... Please don't....Please don't
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: Bush2Beach on May 06, 2018, 07:03:33 PM
You did not really run your microwave for half an hour, Must be snowing or really boring In Iceland today. Proving that harnessed magma translates to cheap power.
Either way I hope everyone and crops in Puna are safe from sulfer and lava alike. so many earthquakes and being told there is a missile headed your way in a short period of time sounds stressful.
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: sahai1 on May 06, 2018, 08:13:44 PM
Karenrei, like in the video of the Pahoa city council (I think that was the meeting structure) some people believe that Pele is alive.  Pele I guess is not just the volcano, but also the lava is an extension of that spirit.  That spirit must be respected, respect being don't do anything to it.   This could have something to do with the demigod Maui.
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: KarenRei on May 06, 2018, 08:47:44 PM
You did not really run your microwave for half an hour, Must be snowing or really boring In Iceland today. Proving that harnessed magma translates to cheap power.
Either way I hope everyone and crops in Puna are safe from sulfer and lava alike. so many earthquakes and being told there is a missile headed your way in a short period of time sounds stressful.

15 minutes; I stopped it when the cup ran dry.  And yeah, it was actually snowing today  ;)  Blame Canada.  No oil burned in the generation of that power, don't worry  :)  We're 100% renewable.

Oh geez, I forgot about that false missile alert several months back... Hawaii just can't catch a break  :Þ
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: FrankDrebinOfFruits on May 07, 2018, 02:41:34 AM
Of course, even this was decades old tech (before we even had computer modeling), let alone the century-old tech last attempted on Hawaii  :)

Modelling. HA! Our DMV is still tracking cars with 3x5 cards and a typewriter. I wish I was joking. You know how DMV is sometimes slow, well wait until the nice aunty gets the typewriter unjammed.
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: Future on May 07, 2018, 08:42:07 PM
Oscar - we are glad to hear all is well with you, family, property. 

Karen - fascinating info.
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: barath on May 10, 2018, 09:18:38 AM
Read this morning that there are new vents that opened up very close to Highway 130, which is really bad news -- that's the main highway going through that area and has the potential to really cut off those communities like Oscar said.
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: Bush2Beach on May 10, 2018, 02:25:25 PM
Cut off? I don't think so. Just a longer drive. It would make it about 45 minutes to Pahoa instead of 20 for the area Oscar is in.
A fluid situation so who knows what will happen.

Read this morning that there are new vents that opened up very close to Highway 130, which is really bad news -- that's the main highway going through that area and has the potential to really cut off those communities like Oscar said.
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: HIfarm on May 10, 2018, 02:27:32 PM
Oops, Bush2Beach beat me to it ...
Read this morning that there are new vents that opened up very close to Highway 130, which is really bad news -- that's the main highway going through that area and has the potential to really cut off those communities like Oscar said.

I think, at present, it will not cut off anyone but the alternate route (Rt 132 to 137) is smaller and circuitous and will be a real pain in the rump for anyone living down that way.  (It is my understanding that an alternate short cut, Pohoiki Rd., has already been cut.)  However, in another month, that roundabout route may also cease to exist.  Let's hope that Pele gets it out of her system soon & things calm down again.
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: barath on May 10, 2018, 06:41:21 PM
Oh, good.  I didn't realize there was a backup route!
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: fruitlovers on May 10, 2018, 09:31:48 PM
Oops, Bush2Beach beat me to it ...
Read this morning that there are new vents that opened up very close to Highway 130, which is really bad news -- that's the main highway going through that area and has the potential to really cut off those communities like Oscar said.

I think, at present, it will not cut off anyone but the alternate route (Rt 132 to 137) is smaller and circuitous and will be a real pain in the rump for anyone living down that way.  (It is my understanding that an alternate short cut, Pohoiki Rd., has already been cut.)  However, in another month, that roundabout route may also cease to exist.  Let's hope that Pele gets it out of her system soon & things calm down again.
Takes me 40 minutes to drive to Pahoa instead of usual 20. Now i have to go scenic coastal road. I don't mind except it eats up a lot more gas and time.
There is no alternate route in Pohilki being cut. What is happening is that they want to pave alternate road through Red road (137) in Waa Waa into HPP subdivision. But that will take months i guess. The roundabout is in zero danger John, Pahoa is in zero danger. The 61g flow that went into Pahoa in 2014 is now totally dead. The vent that supplied that flow fro Puu O'o vent does not exist any more. Floor of Puu O'o collapsed after the big 6.9 quake.
The steaming cracks above Hwy 130 (on Alaili Dr.) are not directly above me. If lava started flowing there it would go across Hwy. 130 around the 14 mile marker. That would close that highway, but that highway is closed to traffic already because of cracks and gas. Bigger problem if highway 130 gets flowed on is that it would cut electrical power to our area. But we have solar and a back up generator. If power gets cut i would probably lose internet connection. So you may not hear from me for quite a while if that happens.
My biggest worry is that Leilani flow will start up again. Right now Pele is taking a "lunch break" and flow on all fissures is totally dead. If the lava starts flowing in big quantity again there in Leilani the flow would go towards Pohiki coastal road and cut off only existing way out, road 137, known here as Red Road. Seems like Pele is not finished because there was a huge intrusion of lava from lava lake in Halemaumau. The floor of the lake sank there 700 feet. All that lava went somewhere obviously. But where is not clear. I can't believe they can't map it using satellite imagery or infrared? I guess it might be down to deep for the instruments to sense it? Either that or they just don't want to panic us? I don't know. The best scenario would be if it popped up from bottom of ocean, which is possible because lots of quakes under the ocean.
On totally different topic:
Been noticing some interesting damage to fruit tree leaves from sulphur dioxide gases. A few trees have leaves browning. Worst hit was my tropical walnut (Juglans neotropica). All the leaves are fried. But that tree is deciduous, so i think it will be ok. Santol also dropping browned leaves. Most other fruit trees are ok with little or zero sign of damage. Some ornamentals damaged, like hibiscus and angel's trumpet. Ferns very hard hit, crisped. Right now it is raining and that helps a lot as sulphur dioxide is water soluble. If trade winds pick up that would also help a lot to disperse gases. Fortunately have not had to use respirator at all so far.
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: fruitlovers on May 10, 2018, 09:44:39 PM
Please be advised there is a whole lot of fake news going on.
Just saw this headline from Fox News:
Is Hawaii's Kilauea volcano going to explode? What Mount St. Helens and other eruptions have taught us.
Kilauea is very different type of volcano from Mt. St. Helens. There is possibility of ground water intrusion into Halemaumau crater due to lava level drop. That would cause rocks and ash to go flying. Some towns may be dusted with ash, like Volcano village and Pahala. But that has zero danger of life loss. National park is already closed so don't think any visitor will be hurt either.
That headline is totally alarmist and fake. For real news, if you want it, you can go to USGS or Hawaii Civil Defense websites. There is also plenty of fake news on social media websites. So don't believe everything you read there.
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: ScottR on May 10, 2018, 10:12:34 PM
Oscar, thanks for link to USGS site I make a point of looking at it a couple times a day it has great updates every day! Bummer that you have a longer drive an I hope Pele takes a break so all you folks can relax ! Hope the trade winds pick up so you get a break from gas too.Hope your plants recover OK and you don't loose power, hang in there hope Pele is done for now!
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: HIfarm on May 10, 2018, 10:22:11 PM

Takes me 40 minutes to drive to Pahoa instead of usual 20. Now i have to go scenic coastal road. I don't mind except it eats up a lot more gas and time.
There is no alternate route in Pohilki being cut.  I thought I read something about Pohoiki Rd being cut -- I think I have the right name, it is the one that dumps you out right by Isaac Hale Beach.  That is a small road but at least it would prevent having to make the big loop around.

What is happening is that they want to pave alternate road through Red road (137) in Waa Waa into HPP subdivision. But that will take months i guess. The roundabout is in zero danger John, Pahoa is in zero danger.   I realize that there is nothing threatening Pahoa at this point.  I had not heard anything abou the other road being threatened  yet but I had heard somewhere that this was more or less following the east rift.  If so & if it continues on that course, it seems it would eventually endanger the roundabout road (Rt 137).The 61g flow that went into Pahoa in 2014 is now totally dead. The vent that supplied that flow fro Puu O'o vent does not exist any more. Floor of Puu O'o collapsed after the big 6.9 quake.
The steaming cracks above Hwy 130 (on Alaili Dr.) are not directly above me. If lava started flowing there it would go across Hwy. 130 around the 14 mile marker. That would close that highway, but that highway is closed to traffic already because of cracks and gas. Bigger problem if highway 130 gets flowed on is that it would cut electrical power to our area. But we have solar and a back up generator. If power gets cut i would probably lose internet connection. So you may not hear from me for quite a while if that happens.
My biggest worry is that Leilani flow will start up again. Right now Pele is taking a "lunch break" and flow on all fissures is totally dead. If the lava starts flowing in big quantity again there in Leilani the flow would go towards Pohiki coastal road and cut off only existing way out, road 137, known here as Red Road. Seems like Pele is not finished because there was a huge intrusion of lava from lava lake in Halemaumau. The floor of the lake sank there 700 feet. All that lava went somewhere obviously. But where is not clear. I can't believe they can't map it using satellite imagery or infrared? I guess it might be down to deep for the instruments to sense it? Either that or they just don't want to panic us? I don't know. The best scenario would be if it popped up from bottom of ocean, which is possible because lots of quakes under the ocean.
On totally different topic:
Been noticing some interesting damage to fruit tree leaves from sulphur dioxide gases. A few trees have leaves browning. Worst hit was my tropical walnut (Juglans neotropica). All the leaves are fried. But that tree is deciduous, so i think it will be ok. Santol also dropping browned leaves. Most other fruit trees are ok with little or zero sign of damage. Some ornamentals damaged, like hibiscus and angel's trumpet. Ferns very hard hit, crisped. Right now it is raining and that helps a lot as sulphur dioxide is water soluble. If trade winds pick up that would also help a lot to disperse gases. Fortunately have not had to use respirator at all so far.  I hope Pele has had her say and will now keep quiet for a while.  I hope that most of your collection has no lasting damage.
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: fruitlovers on May 11, 2018, 02:08:20 AM
Latest earthquakes indicate lava has moved furthered down the rift zone to area below intersection of Hwy 132 and Noni Farms road. Hope it does not come up close to 132 as that would block our exit out. And would block everyone's exit that lives on the coastal Red road. I think they are going to have to open 130 back up if that happens. All they need to do is throw some metal plates over existing 4 inch cracks in pavement. There is no steam coming out of those cracks, at least not yet.
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: KarenRei on May 11, 2018, 09:36:05 AM
Quote
Is Hawaii's Kilauea volcano going to explode? What Mount St. Helens and other eruptions have taught us.

***facepalm***  The stupid, it burns...

Does Hawaii maintain stockpiled construction equipment and roadbuilding / bridgebuilding supplies for rapid response to volcanic events (e.g. for road rerouting) like we do here? I guess you have more of a challenge with needing to clear vegetation (also, I don't know if your ground is predominantly pahoehoe or a'a; we're mostly a'a here, and it's a real pain to work with).
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: behlgarden on May 11, 2018, 10:19:58 AM
Latest earthquakes indicate lava has moved furthered down the rift zone to area below intersection of Hwy 132 and Noni Farms road. Hope it does not come up close to 132 as that would block our exit out. And would block everyone's exit that lives on the coastal Red road. I think they are going to have to open 130 back up if that happens. All they need to do is throw some metal plates over existing 4 inch cracks in pavement. There is no steam coming out of those cracks, at least not yet.

Be safe Oscar, like everything else this shall pass too.
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: fruitlovers on May 11, 2018, 06:23:42 PM
Quote
Is Hawaii's Kilauea volcano going to explode? What Mount St. Helens and other eruptions have taught us.

***facepalm***  The stupid, it burns...

Does Hawaii maintain stockpiled construction equipment and roadbuilding / bridgebuilding supplies for rapid response to volcanic events (e.g. for road rerouting) like we do here? I guess you have more of a challenge with needing to clear vegetation (also, I don't know if your ground is predominantly pahoehoe or a'a; we're mostly a'a here, and it's a real pain to work with).
Most of the lava in rift zone is a'a lava. Yes ofcourse the state and county have lots of construction equipment. The national guard is also on the scene and they also have lots of equipment also. But nothing here happens fast, and once an event ends everyone forgets that another could soon happen. For example, in 2014 there was an event where lava almost flowed into Pahoa and came close to flowing over our one and only road into the area, highway 130. During that time the government worked on opening up two alternate roads, one along the coast and one inside Volcano Naitonal park. The road established in the park got since flowed over, and was never reopened or bypassed. The road along the coast the improvements were soon abandoned, and forgotten. I think that was really reckless. We need those roads right now! I hope this wakes up government a little bit? But not holding my breath.
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: Luisport on May 12, 2018, 04:02:31 AM
Latest earthquakes indicate lava has moved furthered down the rift zone to area below intersection of Hwy 132 and Noni Farms road. Hope it does not come up close to 132 as that would block our exit out. And would block everyone's exit that lives on the coastal Red road. I think they are going to have to open 130 back up if that happens. All they need to do is throw some metal plates over existing 4 inch cracks in pavement. There is no steam coming out of those cracks, at least not yet.
Victoria neeson​  highway 132 has started to crack... some big cracks and land deformation
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: fruitlovers on May 12, 2018, 05:09:36 AM
Latest earthquakes indicate lava has moved furthered down the rift zone to area below intersection of Hwy 132 and Noni Farms road. Hope it does not come up close to 132 as that would block our exit out. And would block everyone's exit that lives on the coastal Red road. I think they are going to have to open 130 back up if that happens. All they need to do is throw some metal plates over existing 4 inch cracks in pavement. There is no steam coming out of those cracks, at least not yet.
Victoria neeson​  highway 132 has started to crack... some big cracks and land deformation
Where did you get that information? It is not correct, at least not yet. The road that had big cracks on it is the Pohiki Rd, which branches off from highway 132.
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: Luisport on May 12, 2018, 08:45:02 AM
Latest earthquakes indicate lava has moved furthered down the rift zone to area below intersection of Hwy 132 and Noni Farms road. Hope it does not come up close to 132 as that would block our exit out. And would block everyone's exit that lives on the coastal Red road. I think they are going to have to open 130 back up if that happens. All they need to do is throw some metal plates over existing 4 inch cracks in pavement. There is no steam coming out of those cracks, at least not yet.
Victoria neeson​  highway 132 has started to crack... some big cracks and land deformation
Where did you get that information? It is not correct, at least not yet. The road that had big cracks on it is the Pohiki Rd, which branches off from highway 132.
I saw it on live stream from people on place. But as i see it's true
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: KarenRei on May 12, 2018, 10:49:19 AM
Quote
The road along the coast the improvements were soon abandoned, and forgotten. I think that was really reckless. We need those roads right now! I hope this wakes up government a little bit? But not holding my breath.

No kidding!  If they think building and maintaining roads is expensive, wait until they see the economic losses from prolongued, needless evacuations of an area where several thousand people live.  :Þ
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: Luisport on May 12, 2018, 02:59:00 PM
lavapix.com
@lavapixcom
New fissure east and downhill of PGV. Several vents building up.
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: fruitlovers on May 12, 2018, 06:40:57 PM
Latest earthquakes indicate lava has moved furthered down the rift zone to area below intersection of Hwy 132 and Noni Farms road. Hope it does not come up close to 132 as that would block our exit out. And would block everyone's exit that lives on the coastal Red road. I think they are going to have to open 130 back up if that happens. All they need to do is throw some metal plates over existing 4 inch cracks in pavement. There is no steam coming out of those cracks, at least not yet.
Victoria neeson​  highway 132 has started to crack... some big cracks and land deformation
Where did you get that information? It is not correct, at least not yet. The road that had big cracks on it is the Pohiki Rd, which branches off from highway 132.
I saw it on live stream from people on place. But as i see it's true
No it's not true. No cracks on highway 132, and it's still open. But newest fissure just opened this morning about 1 mile away from highway 132.
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: fruitlovers on May 12, 2018, 06:43:37 PM
lavapix.com
@lavapixcom
New fissure east and downhill of PGV. Several vents building up.
There is only one crack right now, with minor splattering, but yes it's expected more will open in that area because there were a lot of quakes right there.
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: fruitlovers on May 12, 2018, 06:46:47 PM
Quote
The road along the coast the improvements were soon abandoned, and forgotten. I think that was really reckless. We need those roads right now! I hope this wakes up government a little bit? But not holding my breath.

No kidding!  If they think building and maintaining roads is expensive, wait until they see the economic losses from prolongued, needless evacuations of an area where several thousand people live.  :Þ
I wish i was kidding. The government here acts like most people do in day to day life, they leave everything for last moment and only do something when dire need is right in their face. Probably now they will wait until they get emergency money for federal government to improve and make alternate routes.
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: fruitlovers on May 12, 2018, 08:24:48 PM
This is a pretty good article in NY Times explaining in lay men's terms what is going on.
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/05/12/us/kilauea-volcano-lava-leilani-estates-hawaii.html (https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/05/12/us/kilauea-volcano-lava-leilani-estates-hawaii.html)
They only forget to mention important fact that area of possible projectiles from explosion are all inside the national park, which has been closed for a couple of days.
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: EvilFruit on May 13, 2018, 11:11:23 AM
It is good to see you Oscar, I hope you, your family and everyone in the island is safe.
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: Luisport on May 13, 2018, 02:30:45 PM
COH Civil Defense
@CivilDefenseHI
Public Works/Police have verified reports of a new fissure, no. 18, on Halekamahina Loop Road to the west, or Kalapana side of Highway 132.
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: Luisport on May 13, 2018, 04:37:32 PM
lavapix.com
@lavapixcom
Location of 17-18-19 based on video. Someone tell Civil Beat its only 3-4 miles to the ocean.
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: fruitlovers on May 13, 2018, 05:43:07 PM
It is good to see you Oscar, I hope you, your family and everyone in the island is safe.
Everybody here safe so far. Nobody has even had the tiniest injury, despite all those houses burning up.
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: fruitlovers on May 13, 2018, 05:48:56 PM
COH Civil Defense
@CivilDefenseHI
Public Works/Police have verified reports of a new fissure, no. 18, on Halekamahina Loop Road to the west, or Kalapana side of Highway 132.
That road 132 is still open, but only for local residents. And it looks like it may be closed soon as the road has a big dip in it where lava could pool. There will still be one way out via coastal road, but will be even a bigger detour.
Turns out you were right about the cracks on the road, but pretty small ones with no steaming, not fissures fortunately.
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: Luisport on May 14, 2018, 05:40:02 AM
Mileka Lincoln
Mileka Lincoln
@MilekaLincoln
#BREAKING #LeilaniEstatesEruption #HappeningNow: Incredible new video of fissure 18, which opened up near Halekamahina Loop Road between fissure 16 and 17 to the west, or Kalapana side, of Highway 132 just before 7 PM;
https://twitter.com/MilekaLincoln/status/995939531911188480
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: Luisport on May 14, 2018, 02:49:02 PM
Mileka Lincoln
@MilekaLincoln
·
56 min
#LeilaniEstatesEruption UPDATE: New aerial footage from USGS shows just how active & large fissure 17 off Halekamahina Lp Rd has become as @CivilDefenseHI confirms 19th fissure broke out in Lanipuna Gardens near Hinalo Rd (link: https://instagram.com/p/BixCtgLA-74/) instagram.com/p/BixCtgLA-74/ @HawaiiNewsNow #HINews #HawaiiNews
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: Bush2Beach on May 14, 2018, 03:52:27 PM
Ring the ALARM Luisport!
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: fruitlovers on May 14, 2018, 06:38:56 PM
Fissure 17 is 1400 feet long, but not the biggest. I think fissure 8 was bigger. Most amazing thing about 17 is loud explosions. We can hear them here, several miles away. Sounds like thunder, or giant sledge hammer. This is the only fissure that had done that.
Good news is that the lava is moving away from us and towards the ocean. If it empties into ocean then it stops doing property damage and endangering any life.
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: Luisport on May 15, 2018, 02:18:12 PM
Mileka Lincoln
@MilekaLincoln
·
1 h
#LeilaniEstatesEruption UPDATE: Following overnight reports from residents, @CivilDefenseHI can now confirm a 20th fissure has broken out in Lanipuna Gardens subdivision northeast of fissure 19
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: Luisport on May 15, 2018, 02:19:02 PM
Hawaii EMA
@Hawaii_EMA
·
44 min
Please be advised Highway 130 in the vicinity of Leilani Estates WILL NOT be opening to local traffic this morning as previously announced. New cracks have developed overnight.
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: fruitlovers on May 16, 2018, 01:48:38 AM
Hawaii EMA
@Hawaii_EMA
·
44 min
Please be advised Highway 130 in the vicinity of Leilani Estates WILL NOT be opening to local traffic this morning as previously announced. New cracks have developed overnight.

They did open 130, but not till 1 pm. I just drove over all the metal plates on the road. The one plate that is steaming had sunk a few inches. Who knows how long it will remain open? That is the real question.
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: KarenRei on May 16, 2018, 10:40:35 AM
*Sigh*, hate watching this as a spectator.  I know how to cut and weld steel; I could make something a lot more durable than just some loose sheet steel across the road....

Of course, in the end it depends on what the volcano does.  I've seen some rifts opened up by tectonics from Bárðarbunga that are veritable canyons.  If it wants a rift there, it's going to make one.
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: fruitlovers on May 16, 2018, 06:43:17 PM
*Sigh*, hate watching this as a spectator.  I know how to cut and weld steel; I could make something a lot more durable than just some loose sheet steel across the road....

Of course, in the end it depends on what the volcano does.  I've seen some rifts opened up by tectonics from Bárðarbunga that are veritable canyons.  If it wants a rift there, it's going to make one.
Not regular sheet metal. Supposed to be high temperature resistant plates.
BTW, this episode shows how dumb it is to build a geothermal plant right on an active volcano, and especially dumb right into a residential zone. The plant is being shut down right now. I've seen them hauling the equipment they can salvage away in large trucks. The whole plant will be kaput. And if lava goes over the 3 remaining pressurized vents there will be giant uncontrollable and long lasting explosions. (This already happened once in 1990). They are trying to cool them down with water now, depressurize them, and cap and kill the vents. But this could all take weeks. And the lava is extremely close by.
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: Luisport on May 17, 2018, 03:21:44 PM
Just saw this:

Hawaii
Breaking NATIONAL GUARD JUST ORDERED A MASSIVE EVAC

BREAKING ON FOX NEWS

Evacuation affects about 1000 people on the island
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: Luisport on May 17, 2018, 05:24:01 PM
Just saw this:

Hawaii
Breaking NATIONAL GUARD JUST ORDERED A MASSIVE EVAC

BREAKING ON FOX NEWS

Evacuation affects about 1000 people on the island

This is not yet on place, authorities are on preparations to it due the danger of ashes, stronger explosive eruptions and big quantities of gas in the air.
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: Luisport on May 17, 2018, 05:32:37 PM
​for the locals: Free masks will be distributed today 1pm - 7pm @ Cooper Ctr, Pahala Comm Ctr,Naalehu Comm Ctr, Shipman Park Pavilion.
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: KarenRei on May 17, 2018, 05:47:18 PM
Yeay, ash falls  :Þ  Well, at least they let out the pressure faster....  :Þ

Keep those plants hosed off as long as you're not forced out and as long as you have water...  :(   Ugh.....
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: fruitlovers on May 17, 2018, 06:46:15 PM
Just saw this:

Hawaii
Breaking NATIONAL GUARD JUST ORDERED A MASSIVE EVAC

BREAKING ON FOX NEWS

Evacuation affects about 1000 people on the island

This is not yet on place, authorities are on preparations to it due the danger of ashes, stronger explosive eruptions and big quantities of gas in the air.
This is all totally false. Fox News is the KING of fake news!
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: fruitlovers on May 17, 2018, 06:49:55 PM
Yeay, ash falls  :Þ  Well, at least they let out the pressure faster....  :Þ

Keep those plants hosed off as long as you're not forced out and as long as you have water...  :(   Ugh.....
Bad advice. Hosing plants off makes things worse. SO2 dissolves in water and turns into sulphuric acid which damages leaves. Plenty of SO2 about now. Best is to blow off the dust with a leaf blower. BTW, had zero ash fall here, but today is really bad SO2. Schools in the area all closed.
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: ScottR on May 17, 2018, 07:09:17 PM
Stay safe Oscar, keep your masks close are you down to only coastal road now ?
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: KarenRei on May 17, 2018, 10:27:39 PM
Yeay, ash falls  :Þ  Well, at least they let out the pressure faster....  :Þ

Keep those plants hosed off as long as you're not forced out and as long as you have water...  :(   Ugh.....
Bad advice. Hosing plants off makes things worse. SO2 dissolves in water and turns into sulphuric acid which damages leaves. Plenty of SO2 about now. Best is to blow off the dust with a leaf blower. BTW, had zero ash fall here, but today is really bad SO2. Schools in the area all closed.

Not according to the NZ government;

https://www.mpi.govt.nz/dmsdocument/137-volcanic-eruption-impacts-and-hazard-mitigation-for-new-zealands-primary-production-industries (https://www.mpi.govt.nz/dmsdocument/137-volcanic-eruption-impacts-and-hazard-mitigation-for-new-zealands-primary-production-industries)

But if you can get it off with air blowers, then great too  :)   

(H2O+SO3 = H2SO4, not H2O+SO2; SO2 has to oxidize first  :)  )
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: fruitlovers on May 17, 2018, 11:04:34 PM
Stay safe Oscar, keep your masks close are you down to only coastal road now ?
There are 2 ways out again, because they fixed the road close to my place, highway 130. But that seems like a very temporary fix to allow people to get their stuff out, metal plates over vents cannot support heavy trucks or equipment. The other road, the coastal road 137 is still open, but the lava is only 1 mile away and headed straight for it.
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: fruitlovers on May 17, 2018, 11:19:25 PM
Yeay, ash falls  :Þ  Well, at least they let out the pressure faster....  :Þ

Keep those plants hosed off as long as you're not forced out and as long as you have water...  :(   Ugh.....
Bad advice. Hosing plants off makes things worse. SO2 dissolves in water and turns into sulphuric acid which damages leaves. Plenty of SO2 about now. Best is to blow off the dust with a leaf blower. BTW, had zero ash fall here, but today is really bad SO2. Schools in the area all closed.

Not according to the NZ government;

https://www.mpi.govt.nz/dmsdocument/137-volcanic-eruption-impacts-and-hazard-mitigation-for-new-zealands-primary-production-industries (https://www.mpi.govt.nz/dmsdocument/137-volcanic-eruption-impacts-and-hazard-mitigation-for-new-zealands-primary-production-industries)

But if you can get it off with air blowers, then great too  :)   

(H2O+SO3 = H2SO4, not H2O+SO2; SO2 has to oxidize first  :)  )
What i said about blowing ash off is the recommendation of Japanese government. So i guess it depends on which government you want to believe?
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: KarenRei on May 18, 2018, 04:06:20 AM
Yeay, ash falls  :Þ  Well, at least they let out the pressure faster....  :Þ

Keep those plants hosed off as long as you're not forced out and as long as you have water...  :(   Ugh.....
Bad advice. Hosing plants off makes things worse. SO2 dissolves in water and turns into sulphuric acid which damages leaves. Plenty of SO2 about now. Best is to blow off the dust with a leaf blower. BTW, had zero ash fall here, but today is really bad SO2. Schools in the area all closed.

Not according to the NZ government;

https://www.mpi.govt.nz/dmsdocument/137-volcanic-eruption-impacts-and-hazard-mitigation-for-new-zealands-primary-production-industries (https://www.mpi.govt.nz/dmsdocument/137-volcanic-eruption-impacts-and-hazard-mitigation-for-new-zealands-primary-production-industries)

But if you can get it off with air blowers, then great too  :)   

(H2O+SO3 = H2SO4, not H2O+SO2; SO2 has to oxidize first  :)  )
What i said about blowing ash off is the recommendation of Japanese government. So i guess it depends on which government you want to believe?

At least it's not like Mount Saint Helens when the US government itself was giving out contradictory advise to residents, depending on who was talking  ;)
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: fruitlovers on May 18, 2018, 07:27:55 AM
Here are some photos i took today of some lava fountains.

(https://s7.postimg.cc/a67e7ugav/P1080219.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/a67e7ugav/)

(https://s7.postimg.cc/e2kq3yblz/P1080207.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/e2kq3yblz/)

(https://s7.postimg.cc/kt17dg3xj/P1080224.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/kt17dg3xj/)

(https://s7.postimg.cc/69u2c7q9z/P1080236.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/69u2c7q9z/)

You can see a video of that lava fountain here: https://www.facebook.com/oscarfruitlovers/videos/10216273800507817/ (https://www.facebook.com/oscarfruitlovers/videos/10216273800507817/)
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: Luisport on May 18, 2018, 08:53:46 AM
HVO has reported new fissure 21 down rift of Makamae St. in Leilani Estates. Several fissures reactivated. HVO reports pahoehoe lava flows. All Leilani residents be aware of new activity, downed power lines, higher levels of fumes.
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: Luisport on May 18, 2018, 08:54:53 AM
Just saw this:

Hawaii
Breaking NATIONAL GUARD JUST ORDERED A MASSIVE EVAC

BREAKING ON FOX NEWS

Evacuation affects about 1000 people on the island

This is not yet on place, authorities are on preparations to it due the danger of ashes, stronger explosive eruptions and big quantities of gas in the air.
This is all totally false. Fox News is the KING of fake news!
Well i'm sorry. I try to find relevant info to post just to usefull.
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: Luisport on May 18, 2018, 12:38:49 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cAZKIDok3gg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cAZKIDok3gg)
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: fruitlovers on May 18, 2018, 07:40:27 PM
Just saw this:

Hawaii
Breaking NATIONAL GUARD JUST ORDERED A MASSIVE EVAC

BREAKING ON FOX NEWS

Evacuation affects about 1000 people on the island

This is not yet on place, authorities are on preparations to it due the danger of ashes, stronger explosive eruptions and big quantities of gas in the air.
This is all totally false. Fox News is the KING of fake news!
Well i'm sorry. I try to find relevant info to post just to usefull.
Thanks, i know you mean well. But the people here in Hawaii are already very well informed. The civil defense department here puts out notices by email and on radio every few hours. A lot of the news outlets outside of Hawaii are putting out either completely false or alarmist news which is not helpful at all, except to themselves to get higher ratings.
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: Orkine on May 18, 2018, 10:33:08 PM

At least it's not like Mount Saint Helens when the US government itself was giving out contradictory advise to residents, depending on who was talking  ;)
You know some might call that customized guidance, advice tailored to your needs and conditions.  Not some canned response to fit all situations.   :)
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: Luisport on May 20, 2018, 09:32:45 AM
Civil Defense message put out about 4 hours ago:


"This is a Civil Defense Message for Saturday, May 19 at 11:00 in the evening.

Hawaiian Volcano Observatory continues to monitor active flows. Flow front #1 has crossed Highway 137 at the 13-mile marker and has entered the ocean. Flow front #2 is approximately 400 M from Highway 137. Highway 137 is closed between Kamaili Road and Pohoiki Road. Kamaili Road is closed between Highway 130 and Highway 137. All persons are asked to stay out of the area.

The lava has entered the ocean. Be aware of the laze hazard and stay away from any ocean plume...."
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: Luisport on May 20, 2018, 02:57:43 PM
@APWestRegion
17m17 minutes ago
More
Hawaii's erupting volcano has produced a new danger for residents: A cloud of glass particles and hydrochloric acid as lava flows into the ocean.
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: KarenRei on May 20, 2018, 03:03:06 PM
Thanks, i know you mean well. But the people here in Hawaii are already very well informed. The civil defense department here puts out notices by email and on radio every few hours. A lot of the news outlets outside of Hawaii are putting out either completely false or alarmist news which is not helpful at all, except to themselves to get higher ratings.

We understand. Just take it as "people here care about you and the people near you, and are wishing you all the best"  :)  That's the reason we're doing our best to keep up with the news, even though it doesn't affect us personally.
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: zands on May 20, 2018, 05:51:11 PM
You have twenty fissures but it seems not much lava flow from them. Not the kind of flow that swallows up thirty- one hundered houses in a day. It is best that the whole situation blows of dramatically to relive pressure. Then road repairs and home repairs etc. can be made and life can get back to normal.

I am going to take a better look at the geography ----  But off the top of my head, when the lava starts flowing into the ocean then the situation is getting serious
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: fruitlovers on May 20, 2018, 08:14:45 PM
Thanks, i know you mean well. But the people here in Hawaii are already very well informed. The civil defense department here puts out notices by email and on radio every few hours. A lot of the news outlets outside of Hawaii are putting out either completely false or alarmist news which is not helpful at all, except to themselves to get higher ratings.

We understand. Just take it as "people here care about you and the people near you, and are wishing you all the best"  :)  That's the reason we're doing our best to keep up with the news, even though it doesn't affect us personally.
Thanks for the concern. What i was trying to tell Luis is that i already get all these alerts from Civil Defense, and i get them before he does. Also i think i am the only one in this group in the lava area?
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: fruitlovers on May 20, 2018, 08:25:01 PM
You have twenty fissures but it seems not much lava flow from them. Not the kind of flow that swallows up thirty- one hundered houses in a day. It is best that the whole situation blows of dramatically to relive pressure. Then road repairs and home repairs etc. can be made and life can get back to normal.

I am going to take a better look at the geography ----  But off the top of my head, when the lava starts flowing into the ocean then the situation is getting serious
Hi Zands, there are currently 22 fissures, but not all active, i believe right now only 7 are active. About 3 of them are producing huge amounts of lava right now. 3 big rivers of lava headed for the ocean, and 2 of those lava rivers have already crossed the coastal road 137 and dumping lava into the ocean as of last night.Flowing into the ocean is not serious because that area there are no homes in its path. Also large volumes of magma coming out release pressure inside the piping system and make it less explosive and less dangerous. My place is on Kamaili road, which is now closed to all through traffic, including residents. I think they only allow residents out, but not back in. Hope they relax this policy in near future cause otherwise we are locked in for time being. Greatest danger right now is of over protective officials closing off all the roads. We are not in any current danger here except for high levels of SO2 gas, and that has been occuring for over a week, and we're well prepared for it.
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: fruitlovers on May 20, 2018, 08:30:41 PM
Photo of glow in sky at night through almost completely defoliated santol tree. It is one of the more sensitive ones to the SO2.

(https://s7.postimg.cc/mon49i29z/P1080245.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/mon49i29z/)
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: KarenRei on May 20, 2018, 08:38:32 PM
Photo of glow in sky at night through almost completely defoliated santol tree. It is one of the more sensitive ones to the SO2.

(https://s7.postimg.cc/mon49i29z/P1080245.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/mon49i29z/)

*Looks at the santols on my counter*
*Looks at that poor tree*
*Sad face  :(  *

Hope the fissures closest to you are the ones that decide to close up first.  Weak fissures never last very long, but I don't know which of the ones in this eruption are the weakest.
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: fruitlovers on May 20, 2018, 08:45:28 PM
Photo of glow in sky at night through almost completely defoliated santol tree. It is one of the more sensitive ones to the SO2.

(https://s7.postimg.cc/mon49i29z/P1080245.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/mon49i29z/)

*Looks at the santols on my counter*
*Looks at that poor tree*
*Sad face  :(  *

Hope the fissures closest to you are the ones that decide to close up first.  Weak fissures never last very long, but I don't know which of the ones in this eruption are the weakest.
Fissures closest to me, about 2 miles, are not active, and are downslope from me.
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: ScottR on May 20, 2018, 10:18:06 PM
WOW, stay safe Oscar an hope with all the lava flowing that the pressure calms an hopefully Pele rest's. Sounds like your trapped but I'm sure your prepared for the long haul wishing you the best in a scary situation for sure.
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: fruitlovers on May 20, 2018, 11:34:44 PM
WOW, stay safe Oscar an hope with all the lava flowing that the pressure calms an hopefully Pele rest's. Sounds like your trapped but I'm sure your prepared for the long haul wishing you the best in a scary situation for sure.
Good news is that they opened back up the road we are on, so we are not trapped right now.
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: ScottR on May 21, 2018, 10:32:32 AM
Good new's indeed Oscar, you be loosing sleep for sure with gas blast's an fissure sounds hopefully you getting sleep!
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: fruitlovers on May 21, 2018, 06:46:58 PM
Good new's indeed Oscar, you be loosing sleep for sure with gas blast's an fissure sounds hopefully you getting sleep!
Sleeping: no problems. Blasts are very far away, barely hear them.
Breathing: problems some times. Air quality can get really bad sometimes. It brings new meaning to the expression "i need to take a breather". Going to the ocean today (far from lava flow) to get some fresh air. I'm tired of holding my breath!
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: KarenRei on May 21, 2018, 09:52:09 PM
If the air is like it was here after Bárðarbunga, the amount it affects you is relative to how physically active you are.  Also, the weather conditions have a huge effect on it.  The biggest one, obviously, being which direction the wind is blowing and how hard.  With the pollution maps we had, the plume was like a narrow cone emitted from the fissure, aimed at whatever direction the winds were on that day.

Are you getting a "blue haze"?  That was the key characteristic here.  When you're looking at distant mountains it often made them look like they were floating in the air.  The period of time in Iceland's history after Laki went off were known as "Móðuharðindin", or "The Mist Hardships"; 20% of the population and 75% of the livestock died, and Denmark considered evacuating the whole island.
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: Paquicuba on May 21, 2018, 11:16:02 PM
Just saw this:

Hawaii
Breaking NATIONAL GUARD JUST ORDERED A MASSIVE EVAC

BREAKING ON FOX NEWS

Evacuation affects about 1000 people on the island

This is not yet on place, authorities are on preparations to it due the danger of ashes, stronger explosive eruptions and big quantities of gas in the air.
This is all totally false. Fox News is the KING of fake news!



(https://s31.postimg.cc/aw0oc8dqv/Capture.png) (https://postimg.cc/image/aw0oc8dqv/)

Hmm, the fake news only seem to be happening on this site – interesting.
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: Bush2Beach on May 21, 2018, 11:36:57 PM
Enhh? What do you mean?


Just saw this:

Hawaii
Breaking NATIONAL GUARD JUST ORDERED A MASSIVE EVAC

BREAKING ON FOX NEWS

Evacuation affects about 1000 people on the island

This is not yet on place, authorities are on preparations to it due the danger of ashes, stronger explosive eruptions and big quantities of gas in the air.
This is all totally false. Fox News is the KING of fake news!



(https://s31.postimg.cc/aw0oc8dqv/Capture.png) (https://postimg.cc/image/aw0oc8dqv/)

Hmm, the fake news only seem to be happening on this site – interesting.
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: Paquicuba on May 21, 2018, 11:57:43 PM
Enhh? What do you mean?


Just saw this:

Hawaii
Breaking NATIONAL GUARD JUST ORDERED A MASSIVE EVAC

BREAKING ON FOX NEWS

Evacuation affects about 1000 people on the island

This is not yet on place, authorities are on preparations to it due the danger of ashes, stronger explosive eruptions and big quantities of gas in the air.
This is all totally false. Fox News is the KING of fake news!



(https://s31.postimg.cc/aw0oc8dqv/Capture.png) (https://postimg.cc/image/aw0oc8dqv/)

Hmm, the fake news only seem to be happening on this site – interesting.

What I mean is that when I google the following "news" posted by a member on this forum [Evacuation affects about 1000 people on the island] I only get this site as the only site that has ever published such statement. anyway, I'm happy to be in Florida with my lovely hurricanes and my prayers are with those in Hawaii.
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: fruitlovers on May 22, 2018, 04:10:53 AM
If the air is like it was here after Bárðarbunga, the amount it affects you is relative to how physically active you are.  Also, the weather conditions have a huge effect on it.  The biggest one, obviously, being which direction the wind is blowing and how hard.  With the pollution maps we had, the plume was like a narrow cone emitted from the fissure, aimed at whatever direction the winds were on that day.

Are you getting a "blue haze"?  That was the key characteristic here.  When you're looking at distant mountains it often made them look like they were floating in the air.  The period of time in Iceland's history after Laki went off were known as "Móðuharðindin", or "The Mist Hardships"; 20% of the population and 75% of the livestock died, and Denmark considered evacuating the whole island.
No blue haze here. Measurements of SO2 close to fissures at over 100 ppm, which is extremely high. I'm guessing when it's really bad at my place it is over 5 ppm, but don't know for sure as don't have a meter.
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: fruitlovers on May 22, 2018, 04:15:21 AM
See fake news on many different sites, and almost all media outside of Hawaii hypes what is happening here so much that truth becomes distorted. Only local Hawaii news channels are usually good, and even there sometimes there is some hype.
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: Luisport on May 22, 2018, 04:41:18 AM
I posted news about the volcanic eruption here because i was worried with Hawaii people of this forum! I already say sorry for posting this only news that prove to be false. But acuse me to spread false news on porpose is too much! I belong to this forum for some years and never had any problem!

 >:(
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: KarenRei on May 22, 2018, 05:03:37 AM
If the air is like it was here after Bárðarbunga, the amount it affects you is relative to how physically active you are.  Also, the weather conditions have a huge effect on it.  The biggest one, obviously, being which direction the wind is blowing and how hard.  With the pollution maps we had, the plume was like a narrow cone emitted from the fissure, aimed at whatever direction the winds were on that day.

Are you getting a "blue haze"?  That was the key characteristic here.  When you're looking at distant mountains it often made them look like they were floating in the air.  The period of time in Iceland's history after Laki went off were known as "Móðuharðindin", or "The Mist Hardships"; 20% of the population and 75% of the livestock died, and Denmark considered evacuating the whole island.
No blue haze here. Measurements of SO2 close to fissures at over 100 ppm, which is extremely high. I'm guessing when it's really bad at my place it is over 5 ppm, but don't know for sure as don't have a meter.

Ugh, 100 can kill you without a gas mask  :Þ.  Hope nobody is breathing anything close to that.  Now, when Bárðarbunga went off there was so much gas that even a gas mask wouldn't save you near the main crater - the CO2 was so high and the O2 so low that you had to breathe from oxygen tanks near it. But we were lucky that the fissure was so far from cities; yours is basically right next door by comparison, so you're very likely getting well higher levels than we did.  You're close enough that it's probably mostly still SO2 and hasn't oxidized to SO3 / H2SO4 yet, which would explain the lack of a vog haze (since that's tiny droplets of H2SO4, since SO3 is so hygroscopic that it sucks moisture right out of the air until it dilutes to a certain H2SO4 droplet size).  Of course, both SO2 and SO3/H2SO4 are bad for both humans and plants, so that's not necessarily an improvement  :Þ
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: KarenRei on May 22, 2018, 08:15:12 AM
Hmm, first good image I've seen so far:

(http://www.bigislandvideonews.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/2018-05-21-usgs-MAP.jpg)

That really helps contextualize it. Looks like all of the Leilani fissures are dead or dying, and they're further southeast than I was picturing.  Good.  So long as the eastern part of the flow doesn't get too adventurous, further damage should be mainly limited to roads, gas, etc and the occasional home or business in the countryside.

I've seen lots of articles freaking out about the lava going into the sea, but really, it  has to go somewhere, and that's the best spot for it. Laze is a small price to pay.  Bet the people on the eastern end of Pohoiki Road are particularly happy about the turn to the sea.  I just hope those flows to the north of them are as dead as they appear. 
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: zands on May 22, 2018, 08:55:36 AM
As I said before..... These 20+ fissures have not spewed out much lava near homes otherwise we would have a lot more video of homes having lava rolling over them. You can see molten hot lava dancing out of fissures which just means pressure blowing off. I hope pray this volcanic event ends soon and blows off soon so that road repair can be done and lives can return to normal.

As far as lava hitting the ocean with lots of bubbling and steam, this is worth a helicopter ride to see it. But you have to live there and I don't.
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: fruitlovers on May 22, 2018, 10:21:13 PM
As I said before..... These 20+ fissures have not spewed out much lava near homes otherwise we would have a lot more video of homes having lava rolling over them. You can see molten hot lava dancing out of fissures which just means pressure blowing off. I hope pray this volcanic event ends soon and blows off soon so that road repair can be done and lives can return to normal.

As far as lava hitting the ocean with lots of bubbling and steam, this is worth a helicopter ride to see it. But you have to live there and I don't.
The area in Leilani are all homes on one acre or larger lots, otherwise a lot more homes would indeed been destroyed.
All flights within 5 miles of active lava flow are prohibited, except for special permission like USGS and Civid Defense. I did go on a lava boat trip and it was spectacular! They went very close to area where lava is entering the ocean. That large plume is visible from my house. There was zero laze and zero SO2. In fact it was the first time i could breathe freely in a very long time. Now back home and air is miraculously clean, at least for now.
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: Bush2Beach on May 22, 2018, 10:32:34 PM
Wow! surprised they're allowing boat tours. That sounds amazingly spectacular! got pics? ;)
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: fruitlovers on May 22, 2018, 10:35:29 PM
Hmm, first good image I've seen so far:


That really helps contextualize it. Looks like all of the Leilani fissures are dead or dying, and they're further southeast than I was picturing.  Good.  So long as the eastern part of the flow doesn't get too adventurous, further damage should be mainly limited to roads, gas, etc and the occasional home or business in the countryside.

I've seen lots of articles freaking out about the lava going into the sea, but really, it  has to go somewhere, and that's the best spot for it. Laze is a small price to pay.  Bet the people on the eastern end of Pohoiki Road are particularly happy about the turn to the sea.  I just hope those flows to the north of them are as dead as they appear.
The fissures in Leilani are not dead. They are just not active right now. Fissures all along the rift zone can go on and off at any time, and several already have. Hopefully most of the intrusion of magma has moved down rift, but there is no guarantee of this. Seismic activity and deflation are good signs that this is the case, and keeping fingers crossed that this is the case, but extremely difficult, if not impossible, to say what this volcano will do next.
Fissure 6 came back on and is currently threatening to flow over the geothermal plant. There is a possibility of a blow out of a well. They are trying to do everything they can to cap and plug them in time. A blow out of geothermal well would mean possible release of very toxic hydrogen sulfide gases and other chemicals. A well blow out already happened once in 1991, and maybe will help to explatin to you why geothermal plant is not so popular here? That also together with the fact that the plant is smack in the middle of a residential area? It should have never been permitted.
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: fruitlovers on May 22, 2018, 10:40:34 PM
Wow! surprised they're allowing boat tours. That sounds amazingly spectacular! got pics? ;)
The tours are only for boats with special permits that have operated in previous events when lava was entering ocean. Boats without special permits have to remain minimum 300 yards away from area. Our boat was only one there, except for Coast Guard ship monitoring situation. Very difficult to reach as need to use Hilo harbor now that Pohoiki boat ramp is closed. Ocean quite rough in this area and one way was 75 minutes to reach area. Yes have photos, and even videos, and will try to post some later.
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: Bush2Beach on May 22, 2018, 10:49:56 PM
Cool, Thanks Oscar. I was wondering if the Beach Park was still open or not.Thats a much less desireable boat ride from Hilo, especially with white caps.
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: fruitlovers on May 22, 2018, 10:53:33 PM
Cool, Thanks Oscar. I was wondering if the Beach Park was still open or not.Thats a much less desireable boat ride from Hilo, especially with white caps.
What do you mean by the beach park?
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: Bush2Beach on May 22, 2018, 11:04:09 PM
Isaac Hale Park.
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: fruitlovers on May 23, 2018, 12:56:51 AM
Isaac Hale Park.
All the parks along the Puna coast are closed, including that one. Would not do you any good if the parks were open as all the roads that lead to them are either closed by lava, or closed to through traffic, except residents. ID required showing you live there to get in.
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: fruitlovers on May 24, 2018, 09:26:42 PM
I posted some photos and videos on facebook of the lava boat tour:
https://www.facebook.com/oscarfruitlovers (https://www.facebook.com/oscarfruitlovers)

Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: Mark in Texas on May 25, 2018, 08:06:15 AM
I posted some photos and videos on facebook of the lava boat tour:
https://www.facebook.com/oscarfruitlovers (https://www.facebook.com/oscarfruitlovers)

Nice timeline, thanks for sharing.  Been up to the summit a few times.    "Lake Waiau located at 3,970 m above sea level on Mauna Kea", where is that?
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: fruitlovers on May 25, 2018, 07:31:19 PM
I posted some photos and videos on facebook of the lava boat tour:
https://www.facebook.com/oscarfruitlovers (https://www.facebook.com/oscarfruitlovers)

Nice timeline, thanks for sharing.  Been up to the summit a few times.    "Lake Waiau located at 3,970 m above sea level on Mauna Kea", where is that?
Lake Waiau is just a short hike from the summit, end of road. Most people don't see the trail head. It's a short walk, maybe 1/2 mile, but a little hard due to low oxygen levels.
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: Mark in Texas on May 26, 2018, 07:38:09 AM
Lake Waiau is just a short hike from the summit, end of road. Most people don't see the trail head. It's a short walk, maybe 1/2 mile, but a little hard due to low oxygen levels.

Interesting, who'd thought it.  Oxygen?  We got taken in by an astronomer working in the first Keck observatory.   I was so winded I couldn't remember my name when he was introducing us to his friends sitting there at the monitors.  Truly magical.  The pix I took every 5 minutes during sunset are breathtaking.  I've never seen so much space junk and stuff float by in my life.

Good luck with Pele!   ???
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: fruitlovers on May 26, 2018, 06:55:33 PM
Lake Waiau is just a short hike from the summit, end of road. Most people don't see the trail head. It's a short walk, maybe 1/2 mile, but a little hard due to low oxygen levels.

Interesting, who'd thought it.  Oxygen?  We got taken in by an astronomer working in the first Keck observatory.   I was so winded I couldn't remember my name when he was introducing us to his friends sitting there at the monitors.  Truly magical.  The pix I took every 5 minutes during sunset are breathtaking.  I've never seen so much space junk and stuff float by in my life.

Good luck with Pele!   ???
Pele made that summit of Mauna Kea many millions of years ago. Yes it's strange to have a lake at the very top of a volcano. Nobody knows what the source of the water in that lake is. Totally baffling. There is water in it year round, and it's a very low rainfall area, and the water is not run off from anywhere. Now Pele is doing a bit of sculpturing in our area. It's looking around here like the dawn of creation.
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: KarenRei on May 26, 2018, 08:40:19 PM
Lake Waiau is just a short hike from the summit, end of road. Most people don't see the trail head. It's a short walk, maybe 1/2 mile, but a little hard due to low oxygen levels.

Interesting, who'd thought it.  Oxygen?  We got taken in by an astronomer working in the first Keck observatory.   I was so winded I couldn't remember my name when he was introducing us to his friends sitting there at the monitors.  Truly magical.  The pix I took every 5 minutes during sunset are breathtaking.  I've never seen so much space junk and stuff float by in my life.

Good luck with Pele!   ???
Pele made that summit of Mauna Kea many millions of years ago. Yes it's strange to have a lake at the very top of a volcano. Nobody knows what the source of the water in that lake is. Totally baffling. There is water in it year round, and it's a very low rainfall area, and the water is not run off from anywhere. Now Pele is doing a bit of sculpturing in our area. It's looking around here like the dawn of creation.

Isn't it amazing seeing an area altered by a volcano?  After the Holuhraun eruption here it was like a totally different place.  "Wait, there wasn't a mountain here before..."  ;)  I think most people who've never been around active volcanism underestimate how *thick* lava flows can get (particularly a'a, which is our main type here).  And how how far from the source they can lay down these giant walls of lava.
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: fruitlovers on May 27, 2018, 03:23:39 AM
Lava has covered some 2700 acres so far, and it seems like it's just started. Lots of magma in this intrusion and the lava is starting to back up the rift and flowing out of previously inactive fissures. Many more houses in Leilani destroyed and others now in danger. Current fissures can't handle to volume currently going through or there is a plug somewhere in the pipe system causing the backup.
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: KarenRei on May 27, 2018, 01:34:37 PM
I had thought surely those were going to die, since the eastern fissures appeared so much more dominant, but clearly not.  Now PGV looks to be back under threat. :Þ

(https://volcanoes.usgs.gov/observatories/hvo/maps_uploads/image-447.jpg)
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: nullzero on May 27, 2018, 01:36:29 PM
(https://s33.postimg.cc/51i7jybbj/volcano1.jpg)
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: zands on May 27, 2018, 02:41:48 PM
(https://s33.postimg.cc/51i7jybbj/volcano1.jpg)

The geothermal plant...must be
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: KarenRei on May 27, 2018, 05:23:09 PM
I know what Icelanders would be thinking there  ;)  "Oooh, energy - and right next to an existing plant!  Quick, get us pipefitters and all the high-temperature steel pipe you can get your hands on!"  ;)
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: fruitlovers on May 27, 2018, 05:30:46 PM
That geothermal plant is gonners. Even if it is not completely covered by lava it will never be brought back into operation. Good riddens, it's not something the people here inside a residential area ever wanted. The company that ran it had a terrible trakc record of accidents and lying to the public, and fines from the government.
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: KarenRei on May 27, 2018, 05:40:17 PM
Indeed, looks like it'd take pretty heroic efforts to save it at this point.  From what I've seen in the news, they sound pretty resigned to it being lost - having already removed the working fluid for the plant, cooled all the wells, and filling in one that they couldn't cool sufficiently with drilling mud.  It is kind of weird that they built it right next to a residential area in the first place - even we don't do that.  :Þ
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: fruitlovers on May 27, 2018, 05:45:52 PM
Indeed, looks like it'd take pretty heroic efforts to save it at this point.  From what I've seen in the news, they sound pretty resigned to it being lost - having already removed the working fluid for the plant, cooled all the wells, and filling in one that they couldn't cool sufficiently with drilling mud.  It is kind of weird that they built it right next to a residential area in the first place - even we don't do that.  :Þ
Working fluid = 60,000 gallons of very flammable liquids. Guess what happens when molten lava hits that?  :o :o :o
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: KarenRei on May 27, 2018, 06:27:35 PM
Pentane is barely even a liquid; it boils off with almost any heat.  Which I would think would make it all the more dangerous (aka, easier to burn all at once).

Thankfully there's no obvious source of heat or ignition nearby.   Hmm, wait a minute...   ;)
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: fruitlovers on May 27, 2018, 08:04:48 PM
Pentane is barely even a liquid; it boils off with almost any heat.  Which I would think would make it all the more dangerous (aka, easier to burn all at once).

Thankfully there's no obvious source of heat or ignition nearby.   Hmm, wait a minute...   ;)
Rumor i heard, don't know if it's true, is that they have just as much pentane already inside the wells which could not be removed.
Took them 3 days to remove the stored 60,000 gallons of pentane. Great that they even had the time to do it before being flowed on.
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: FrankDrebinOfFruits on May 28, 2018, 12:58:34 AM
I heard that plant supplied one quarter of the big island's energy needs. What was the alternative source that they switched to?
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: KarenRei on May 28, 2018, 03:53:47 AM
I heard that plant supplied one quarter of the big island's energy needs. What was the alternative source that they switched to?

All grids have backup power in case major plants go down; you cannot have "just enough" generation capacity and still have a stable grid.  Of course, it means more oil imports and less reserve against downtime, and higher generating costs.

If they wanted new generation capacity fast, you can't beat solar. Also, providing grid stability can also be done fast with grid-scale batteries (see the 129MW Tesla Australia project for an example).  You can even do it without using any land - again see Tesla/Australia with their under-development 250MW "virtual power plant", where they provide home-scale batteries and solar roofs at no cost to 50k homes, but the utility owns the power (for their effort, consumers are to get a ~30% discount).  But whatever their plan is, they should have already been working toward this from the moment they decided that they needed to evacuate the plant.
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: fruitlovers on May 28, 2018, 05:18:22 AM
Existing plants will import more fossil fuels to make up the difference in loss of geothermal plant. Solar panel installations would be nice, but there is no immediate plan for that, and they could certainly not produce overnight 25 percent of the slack lost.
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: nullzero on May 28, 2018, 01:02:46 PM
Great video of the lava eruption in Hawaii.

https://vimeo.com/272041704
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: Daintree on May 28, 2018, 04:22:46 PM
Wow. Impressive video.  Mama Earth is truly a living, breathing creature.
Just wish she weren't breathing on houses right now...
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: KarenRei on May 28, 2018, 06:16:32 PM
Wow. Impressive video.  Mama Earth is truly a living, breathing creature.
Just wish she weren't breathing on houses right now...

That swimming pool shot is brilliant. It's like the old "boiling water over an open flame in a paper cup" trick - the water keeps the paper below the temperature where it could potentially catch fire.  There's a couple breaches, but overall it held its shape (and its water!) brilliantly. And even those breaches might be more from pressure than temperature.

Significant flow rates from this eruption.  I didn't realize that it was going all the way to the ocean in open air rather than in lava tubes.  That basalt is really moving.
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: fruitlovers on May 28, 2018, 07:22:47 PM
Wow. Impressive video.  Mama Earth is truly a living, breathing creature.
Just wish she weren't breathing on houses right now...
Swallowed another dozen homes last night.  :'( What's not often mentioned is that the property lots are turned into solid rock, all the plants incinerated. You don't just lose your house, you lose your whole property. Very hard to reclaim a property like that. But people here do it. It's been done in Kalapana, but takes many years and lots of energy.
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: KarenRei on May 29, 2018, 03:55:33 AM
Not good.

(https://volcanoes.usgs.gov/observatories/hvo/maps_uploads/image-449.jpg)

Quote
You don't just lose your house, you lose your whole property. Very hard to reclaim a property like that. But people here do it.

What's the typical pioneer species?  I imagine ingas would work if you wanted something with fruiting potential.

At least it'll mean you're less in the firing line the next time, as your house could be as much as a couple dozen meters higher elevation, depending on the flow thickness...
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: fruitlovers on May 29, 2018, 05:26:38 AM
Old lava flows more likely to be flowed over again. Elevation does not matter much if the lava is all layed down flat.
Typical pioneer species depend on type of lava. On a'a it is ohia, but they are very slow growing and are going through a lot of disease problems lately. Pahoehoe lava is extremely hard stuff, and takes very long time to  re establish plants on that.
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: Finca La Isla on May 29, 2018, 09:01:24 AM
A long time ago, while on the big island, a real estate guy tried to convince me that the softer lave could simply be crushed down by heavy equipment and then you would bring in top soil.  Would something like that be practical?
We work with soil challenges here in CR, but not like that.
Also, we have plenty of active volcanoes but little production of lava.  Ash is the big issue here.  Lots of the best coffee growing areas and vegetable production is highly exposed to ash.
Suerte,
Peter
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: KarenRei on May 29, 2018, 12:55:26 PM
Old lava flows more likely to be flowed over again. Elevation does not matter much if the lava is all layed down flat.
Typical pioneer species depend on type of lava. On a'a it is ohia, but they are very slow growing and are going through a lot of disease problems lately. Pahoehoe lava is extremely hard stuff, and takes very long time to  re establish plants on that.

My experience with lava flows here is that lava flows in bands; each flow creates a wall that directs subsequent flows to its side.  Only when it's directed a large enough  amount of lava through side paths (to the point where they're interfering with its ability to move downhill) does it then get the ability to flow over the original, more central paths.  But I suppose it depends on your lava properties and topography.  We tend to get really thick a'a flows here, dozens of meters near the edges and potentially hundreds near the craters (that said, pahoehoe happens - I've even got some old "fossilized" pahoehoe on my land - but is much rarer).

It's harder for me to make colonization comparisons because up here, the first thing to colonize - everywhere - is moss  ;)  Big thick blankets like pillows.  It doesn't care whether it's pahoehoe or aa.

Quote from: Finca La Isla
a real estate guy tried to convince me that the softer lave could simply be crushed down by heavy equipment and then you would bring in top soil.  Would something like that be practical?

Ehhhh..... technically possible, but I'd think that would cost a fortune.  I mean, that's how they build roads through it here, but they're not cheap. A'a is nasty stuff - hard to flatten, but very irregular so it's hard to fill too. Sometimes it's worse than others - I once walked on one flow front that would best be described as walking on a mix of broken vases and razor blades.  It wears down with time, though - but it's always this chunky, hard, bouldery mess.

Quote
Also, we have plenty of active volcanoes but little production of lava.  Ash is the big issue here.

Ironically we get that too here  ;)  Volcanoes that erupt through glaciers make ash even though they're basaltic, as the water makes it explosive. Our lava is also sometimes abnormally gassy (read about the Laki eruption for a really bad example. And while we're overwhelmingly basaltic, we have a small proportion of our volcanoes that are predominantly andesitic / rhyolitic (the most famous being Hekla and Askja), so they're explosive ashy things similar to what you're used to. It takes some interesting geology to get that in the middle of an ocean; it's secondary rhyolite, caused by basaltic magma separating out over time into an mafic fraction and a felsic fraction  :)  Hekla was thought in Europe in the Middle Ages to be a gate to Hell, and was often drawn in terrifying fashion on old maps; it had on several occasions created eruptions so ashy that they dusted the mainland.
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: FrankDrebinOfFruits on May 29, 2018, 01:26:28 PM
I wish I had more rock at my place. I found maybe a few dozen 1 foot diameter rocks. They have tons of rock on the west side of Kauai.  I would love to make some retaining walls, walking paths, privacy fences, landscaping etc. I have gone so far to lava rock concrete stamps (almost cheaper to get cement than buy and truck rock).  Then I think about the extreme opposite (i.e. all rock and no dirt), and it is scary if you are trying to grow stuff. Not sure which problem is worse, paying for rock or paying for dirt. I think I would rather pay for rock, then every time I dig I hit rock.  I was visiting someone in Kona and had to bare root the trees, and they were so excited to have the soil from the pots. I had this look  :o being from Kauai, there is so much dirt.

This thread has been an eye opener, especially the last few posts about the different types of flows. Thanks!
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: KarenRei on May 29, 2018, 01:43:30 PM
I wish I had more rock at my place

Haha, you're free to come take some of mine!  Just leave whatever jasper/calcite/opal/quartz/zeolites you find in the process behind  ;)

Quote
Then I think about the extreme opposite (i.e. all rock and no dirt), and it is scary if you are trying to grow stuff.

You have to work at it, that's for sure.  I'm really sore right now because for the past several days I've been spreading phosphate, and I'm only just getting started. On the less-steep ravine/canyon walls I have to climb up and down with buckets of fertilizer to get to the areas I can't throw to from the top.  And you can't spread it all at once either, because sandy/rocky soil doesn't hang onto minerals well. On the upside, it's *super* aerated!  ;)  Excepting near the underground streams and the iron bogs that is.  BTW, if you've never seen an iron bog, they're really curious things.  For the first couple years of owning my land I honestly thought I had a couple oil slicks where someone had just dumped their motor oil.  Basically it means that uphill from me, pyrite is breaking down to form sulfuric acid, which dissolves (ferric) iron from the basalt, and then when it gets to air, special bacteria oxidize it, leaving these black, iridescent slicks on the surface (goethite, if I remember right) and brown iron muck (limonite + decomposed bacteria) on the bottom.

And wow have I ever gotten sidetracked from the conversation here....

Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: FrankDrebinOfFruits on May 29, 2018, 01:49:08 PM
BTW, if you've never seen an iron bog, they're really curious things.  For the first couple years of owning my land I honestly thought I had a couple oil slicks where someone had just dumped their motor oil.  Basically it means that uphill from me, pyrite is breaking down to form sulfuric acid, which dissolves (ferric) iron from the basalt, and then when it gets to air, special bacteria oxidize it, leaving these black, iridescent slicks on the surface (goethite, if I remember right) and brown iron muck (limonite + decomposed bacteria) on the bottom.

And wow have I ever gotten sidetracked from the conversation here....
Does this "iron bog" have an awful foul smell? I came across something like this recently, and I was very curious to the cause.  It happens near a swamp area of mine.
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: KarenRei on May 29, 2018, 03:49:21 PM
No smell I've ever noticed, no.  Also, while the sheen looks superficially similar to oil, when you touch it you'll notice that it's actually bacterial "film", rather than a liquid layer. It sticks together and you can move it around; it doesn't swirl or anything like a liquid.
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: Finca La Isla on May 29, 2018, 04:31:55 PM
It’s possible to find small iron chunks in such a bog.  That is how early iron was 'mined'.
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: fruitlovers on May 29, 2018, 04:43:03 PM
A long time ago, while on the big island, a real estate guy tried to convince me that the softer lave could simply be crushed down by heavy equipment and then you would bring in top soil.  Would something like that be practical?
We work with soil challenges here in CR, but not like that.
Also, we have plenty of active volcanoes but little production of lava.  Ash is the big issue here.  Lots of the best coffee growing areas and vegetable production is highly exposed to ash.
Suerte,
Peter
Softer lava = a'a lava. Yes what you describe is what i've been doing for the last quarter century. But it involves a lot of time and expense = Easier said than done. On the harder pahoeoe lava it is also possible, but even more expense and 10x more time, and plants never do as well on it.
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: fruitlovers on May 29, 2018, 04:48:13 PM
I wish I had more rock at my place. I found maybe a few dozen 1 foot diameter rocks. They have tons of rock on the west side of Kauai.  I would love to make some retaining walls, walking paths, privacy fences, landscaping etc. I have gone so far to lava rock concrete stamps (almost cheaper to get cement than buy and truck rock).  Then I think about the extreme opposite (i.e. all rock and no dirt), and it is scary if you are trying to grow stuff. Not sure which problem is worse, paying for rock or paying for dirt. I think I would rather pay for rock, then every time I dig I hit rock.  I was visiting someone in Kona and had to bare root the trees, and they were so excited to have the soil from the pots. I had this look  :o being from Kauai, there is so much dirt.

This thread has been an eye opener, especially the last few posts about the different types of flows. Thanks!
Kauai has a lot of soil because it is the oldest of the Hawaiian islands (except for little Niihau). All that soil is what caused the flooding in Hanalei area, so it has a little bit of a downside also. We never have flooding here. But yes that soil, even though red soil, and very slippery clay soil, is nice.
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: fruitlovers on May 29, 2018, 04:53:36 PM
Old lava flows more likely to be flowed over again. Elevation does not matter much if the lava is all layed down flat.
Typical pioneer species depend on type of lava. On a'a it is ohia, but they are very slow growing and are going through a lot of disease problems lately. Pahoehoe lava is extremely hard stuff, and takes very long time to  re establish plants on that.

My experience with lava flows here is that lava flows in bands; each flow creates a wall that directs subsequent flows to its side.  Only when it's directed a large enough  amount of lava through side paths (to the point where they're interfering with its ability to move downhill) does it then get the ability to flow over the original, more central paths.  But I suppose it depends on your lava properties and topography.  We tend to get really thick a'a flows here, dozens of meters near the edges and potentially hundreds near the craters (that said, pahoehoe happens - I've even got some old "fossilized" pahoehoe on my land - but is much rarer).

It's harder for me to make colonization comparisons because up here, the first thing to colonize - everywhere - is moss  ;)  Big thick blankets like pillows.  It doesn't care whether it's pahoehoe or aa.

Quote from: Finca La Isla
a real estate guy tried to convince me that the softer lave could simply be crushed down by heavy equipment and then you would bring in top soil.  Would something like that be practical?

Ehhhh..... technically possible, but I'd think that would cost a fortune.  I mean, that's how they build roads through it here, but they're not cheap. A'a is nasty stuff - hard to flatten, but very irregular so it's hard to fill too. Sometimes it's worse than others - I once walked on one flow front that would best be described as walking on a mix of broken vases and razor blades.  It wears down with time, though - but it's always this chunky, hard, bouldery mess.

Quote
Also, we have plenty of active volcanoes but little production of lava.  Ash is the big issue here.

Ironically we get that too here  ;)  Volcanoes that erupt through glaciers make ash even though they're basaltic, as the water makes it explosive. Our lava is also sometimes abnormally gassy (read about the Laki eruption for a really bad example. And while we're overwhelmingly basaltic, we have a small proportion of our volcanoes that are predominantly andesitic / rhyolitic (the most famous being Hekla and Askja), so they're explosive ashy things similar to what you're used to. It takes some interesting geology to get that in the middle of an ocean; it's secondary rhyolite, caused by basaltic magma separating out over time into an mafic fraction and a felsic fraction  :)  Hekla was thought in Europe in the Middle Ages to be a gate to Hell, and was often drawn in terrifying fashion on old maps; it had on several occasions created eruptions so ashy that they dusted the mainland.
If you look at maps you can see that the current lava fllow is in large part following the same path as 1955 flow. Magma from deep below comes up old cracks, and they really don't care much about a few extra feet of elevation to push through after coming up through miles of rock.
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: KarenRei on May 30, 2018, 03:44:02 PM
In terms of where it emerges, I fully agree.  Once it's on the surface, however, it flows like a river - until it hardens.  Then that hardened flow becomes a barrier to subsequent flows - until it's built such significant barriers everywhere that the easiest path is back over the original flow.

In terms of where it's going to emerge, though, that can be bloody anywhere.  The sort of dikes that feed these fissure eruptions are far more massive than most people realize.   Most most times when there's magma movement all it does is make a dike, it never even  breaks the surface.  It's like the magma chamber is erupting into the ground itself.  There's a great animated map of how the lava in the Bárðarbunga eruption moved from the magma chamber (lower left) dozens of kilometers underground, simply by plotting the earthquakes that occurred as the rock broke in its path:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3PTEDxrIRoM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3PTEDxrIRoM)

It ripped a channel up to a dozen meters wide, several kilometers tall, and dozens of kilometers long.  It could have broken through to the surface at any time, or never.  But obviously, once it does, that becomes an easier path to move rather than breaking more rock (so long as the rift is big enough for the flow rate), and it flows downhill from that point.

Oh great, now I'm going through all the old videos from the eruptions... I forgot about the fire tornadoes it made!
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: fruitlovers on May 31, 2018, 07:32:16 PM
Now have chunks of cinder rock falling out of the sky all over my place. At first we thought it was a rat walking around on our roof, then realized it was rocks landing on it and rolling into our rain gutter. It is from fissure 8 which had heights of over 200 feet and the wind carried the particles here.

(https://s15.postimg.cc/i8tporfuf/Cinder_from_the_Sky.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/i8tporfuf/)

Our internet is also intermittent. The infrastructure here is rapidly going down as more roads get flowed over. Just lucky our road is holding up so far. The govt. finally kicked into gear and is rapidly working on alternate routes as possible evacuation roads.
.
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: KarenRei on May 31, 2018, 07:50:38 PM
Now have chunks of cinder rock falling out of the sky all over my place. At first we thought it was a rat walking around on our roof, then realized it was rocks landing on it and rolling into our rain gutter. It is from fissure 8 which had heights of over 200 feet and the wind carried the particles here.

(https://s15.postimg.cc/i8tporfuf/Cinder_from_the_Sky.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/i8tporfuf/)

Our internet is also intermittent. The infrastructure here is rapidly going down as more roads get flowed over. Just lucky our road is holding up so far. The govt. finally kicked into gear and is rapidly working on alternate routes as possible evacuation roads.
.

Ouch.  :(

Wish she would just calm down and stay focused on flowing into the sea...  :Þ

(https://volcanoes.usgs.gov/observatories/hvo/maps_uploads/image-456.jpg)

Are you getting any Pele's hair?  If you've got that much height and wind, that sounds like conditions for generating it.
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: HIfarm on May 31, 2018, 07:56:43 PM
Yikes!  Are you on a PV system?  I can't imagine that raining rocks would do the panels much good.

Glad to hear that alternate routes are in the works.  Pele is really making a mess of access roads down there.

Now have chunks of cinder rock falling out of the sky all over my place. At first we thought it was a rat walking around on our roof, then realized it was rocks landing on it and rolling into our rain gutter. It is from fissure 8 which had heights of over 200 feet and the wind carried the particles here.

(https://s15.postimg.cc/i8tporfuf/Cinder_from_the_Sky.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/i8tporfuf/)

Our internet is also intermittent. The infrastructure here is rapidly going down as more roads get flowed over. Just lucky our road is holding up so far. The govt. finally kicked into gear and is rapidly working on alternate routes as possible evacuation roads.
.
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: fruitlovers on May 31, 2018, 07:57:27 PM
Yes some Pele's hair (which is long golden colored needle like glass) fell in Pahoa, but not much. None here where i live, and i'm a lot closer to it.
The flows are indeed going toward the ocean. Now Vacationland, Kapoho,  areas are in dire danger. I think a large chunk of the coastline is going to be flowed over. There are very  large volumes coming out of fissure 8 right now. All those areas are being evacuated. The roads there are getting cut off and people that stay will be trapped in. Coaslines are particularly dangerous places to be because ofcourse all the lave flows down to them. And worse yet, due to flat topography at the coast the lava will form large lakes there and cover very large areas.
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: fruitlovers on May 31, 2018, 08:06:48 PM
Yikes!  Are you on a PV system?  I can't imagine that raining rocks would do the panels much good.

Glad to hear that alternate routes are in the works.  Pele is really making a mess of access roads down there.

Now have chunks of cinder rock falling out of the sky all over my place. At first we thought it was a rat walking around on our roof, then realized it was rocks landing on it and rolling into our rain gutter. It is from fissure 8 which had heights of over 200 feet and the wind carried the particles here.

(https://s15.postimg.cc/i8tporfuf/Cinder_from_the_Sky.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/i8tporfuf/)

Our internet is also intermittent. The infrastructure here is rapidly going down as more roads get flowed over. Just lucky our road is holding up so far. The govt. finally kicked into gear and is rapidly working on alternate routes as possible evacuation roads.
.
As you might imagin, in order to be carried coupe of miles in the wind the rocks are very light and fluffy. Yes i'm on solar. No they don't hurt the panels at all. Real problem affecting solar is that the plume from the fissures is blocking out most of the sunlight. It's dark here a lot of the time. So solar is pretty useless right now.
Chunks of rock also a problem for our water catchment. Imagine if sharp rock gets into our water pump?  No piped in water here. Just disconnected our catchment from the roof. Water getting acidified from SO2. It's at pH 5 right now. Dumping in some baking soda to try to neutralize it.
The dozers are finally working on Chain of Craters road through Volcano Nationa park. That will give us an emergency route out if necessary. They only need to flatten .7 miles that were flowed over. Sanford's trucking also created a detour through their property that allows us to bypass all the steel plates on highway 130 if necessary. They did it in just one day...bless their souls!
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: HIfarm on May 31, 2018, 08:13:10 PM
Sounds like you are making the best of a bad situation, Oscar.  Good luck!

From the latest map from the county, it looks like the lava is screaming (by Hawaii standards) towards Kapoho.
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: KarenRei on May 31, 2018, 08:41:49 PM
Water getting acidified from SO2. It's at pH 5 right now. Dumping in some baking soda to try to neutralize it.

Geez, that's crazy low for rainwater....
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: fruitlovers on May 31, 2018, 08:52:17 PM
Water getting acidified from SO2. It's at pH 5 right now. Dumping in some baking soda to try to neutralize it.

Geez, that's crazy low for rainwater....
i think closer to the lava flow water catchments are at 4 pH.
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: fruitlovers on May 31, 2018, 09:35:03 PM
My new very high heat resistant plants. We test them all on site right before we sell them. Here is one of my demonstarions. See it on my FB timeline:
https://www.facebook.com/oscarfruitlovers (https://www.facebook.com/oscarfruitlovers)
 


Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: KarenRei on June 02, 2018, 05:25:03 AM
Water getting acidified from SO2. It's at pH 5 right now. Dumping in some baking soda to try to neutralize it.

Geez, that's crazy low for rainwater....
i think closer to the lava flow water catchments are at 4 pH.

Maybe it's time to take up growing rooibos?  ;)

Meanwhile...

(https://volcanoes.usgs.gov/observatories/hvo/maps_uploads/image-461.jpg)

Have they evacuated Kapoho?  Because it's almost cut off now, if not already.  :(

I don't know the local topography, but if the 1960 flow raised the local elevation under it then I'd expect the current flow to go south and/or north of it.  But I sure hope that it can just go over it...

Also not liking the expansion on the north side of the flow near Leilani.  If the flow keeps walling off the path to the north and this lasts long enough it could eventually push into Nanawale, unless the local topography is unsupportive.  And of course if the current flows get too restricted a new flow could break out in Leilani itself.  ... sigh...

ED: I see the USGS image has updated. They show the flow front tracking south of the 1960 flow, like I was afraid of  :(  I'm also looking at a topo map now and it indeed looks like the 1960 flow is a bit higher... and that Kapoho itself would be the easiest route to the sea  :(
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: Bush2Beach on June 02, 2018, 10:53:28 AM
Looks like not much left of the Geothermal plant property. Headed towards a big neighborhood and the "Champagne Ponds". Evacuation of Kapoho must be well under way. I hope everyone stays safe.
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: KarenRei on June 02, 2018, 11:27:23 AM
Looks like not much left of the Geothermal plant property. Headed towards a big neighborhood and the "Champagne Ponds". Evacuation of Kapoho must be well under way. I hope everyone stays safe.

Saw an article yesterday about PGV that said that so far they'd only lost two wells, a warehouse with a drilling rig, and an electrical substation - but not the expensive stuff (the turbine houses, etc). Apparently they're not ready to write it off yet (they're refusing to lay off employees).  Of course, given how hemmed in it is, pretty much any lava moment would wipe out what remains of the site.  And there's a lot of skepticism that they'd ever be able to reopen even if the remaining buildings survive.

(http://www.thinkgeoenergy.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/Lava_flows_Puna_Map1-1024x679.png)

As of yesterday morning they were still able to get in from the east. Obviously nobody's getting in anymore without a helicopter.

ED: Wow, the live map where that image came from is great:

https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/viewer?mid=11tCiLa42FId7GMtg-4UkEoAI9QozTVFD&hl=en_US&ll=19.491261657256736%2C-154.84304180370987&z=15 (https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/viewer?mid=11tCiLa42FId7GMtg-4UkEoAI9QozTVFD&hl=en_US&ll=19.491261657256736%2C-154.84304180370987&z=15)
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: HIfarm on June 02, 2018, 01:47:00 PM
It looks very bad for Kapoho with anything short of a miracle.  It is also troubling that there are flows very near the descent line heading down towards Nanawale Bay.  If things do not stop soon, it is probably going to chomp off another piece of island, making more areas inaccessible.  It would be nice if Pele could just settle on one area & cover it in lava rather than claiming more and more of the island.

John
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: KarenRei on June 02, 2018, 02:08:30 PM
It looks very bad for Kapoho with anything short of a miracle.  It is also troubling that there are flows very near the descent line heading down towards Nanawale Bay.  If things do not stop soon, it is probably going to chomp off another piece of island, making more areas inaccessible.  It would be nice if Pele could just settle on one area & cover it in lava rather than claiming more and more of the island.

John

She's been erupting into two separate drainage basins, which is more than a little annoying. 

Too soon to say for Nanawale, but I certainly wouldn't be sleeping easy if I lived there  :(   More immediately, there's a fair number of homes and businesses on the north side of  the 1960 flow directly in the firing line.

Such a bloody mess  :(
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: fruitlovers on June 03, 2018, 01:27:28 AM
It looks very bad for Kapoho with anything short of a miracle.  It is also troubling that there are flows very near the descent line heading down towards Nanawale Bay.  If things do not stop soon, it is probably going to chomp off another piece of island, making more areas inaccessible.  It would be nice if Pele could just settle on one area & cover it in lava rather than claiming more and more of the island.

John
Pele can shut off just as mysteriously as she comes on. Look for example at the 2014 flow. It went 14 miles and then shut off only 400 ft. from Pahoa town. Is that a miracle? Look also at 1955 flow, headed straight towards Vacationland and then shut off less than 1/2 mile from the coast. Is that a miracle? Whatever you want to call it i hope it happens again because Kapoho Beach lots is really a beautiful and special area. It is the very first area i lived in when i first got here. Right now it sure doesn't look good.
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: fruitlovers on June 03, 2018, 01:37:08 AM
It looks very bad for Kapoho with anything short of a miracle.  It is also troubling that there are flows very near the descent line heading down towards Nanawale Bay.  If things do not stop soon, it is probably going to chomp off another piece of island, making more areas inaccessible.  It would be nice if Pele could just settle on one area & cover it in lava rather than claiming more and more of the island.

John

She's been erupting into two separate drainage basins, which is more than a little annoying. 

Too soon to say for Nanawale, but I certainly wouldn't be sleeping easy if I lived there  :(   More immediately, there's a fair number of homes and businesses on the north side of  the 1960 flow directly in the firing line.

Such a bloody mess  :(
Nanawale is in zero danger right now, unless a new fissure system opens up, which is also highly unlikely. The existing fissure system cannot flow towards Nanawale. it will move just east of Nanawale and possibly enter the coast just east of Hawaiian Beaches. If it does that it would cut off another vital road, Beach Government road, which was just paved last week so it could be used as an evacuation route.
The biggest problem right now is not homes destroyed, but access roads destroyed. There will be more homes that are isolated than homes that are destroyed. The Kapoho and Vacationaland area have over 500 homes and all that area is evacuated and the homes are completely unreachable, except by helicopter or boat. Unfortunately there is no dock in that area and reaching anything by boat is extremely dangerous.
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: fruitlovers on June 03, 2018, 01:41:07 AM
Looks like not much left of the Geothermal plant property. Headed towards a big neighborhood and the "Champagne Ponds". Evacuation of Kapoho must be well under way. I hope everyone stays safe.
Most of the plant is still there. Only 2 wells were flowed over, but the main access road into the plant is flowed over. Also all the other wells were killed in preparation for the lava flow. All the connecting power lines, posts,, and infrastructure are destroyed. The main road leading to the plant, highway 132, is destroyed. This plant is deader than dead.
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: Mike T on June 03, 2018, 01:43:55 AM
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-06-03/hawaii-volcano-final-evacuations-as-lava-cuts-off-roads/9829600 (http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-06-03/hawaii-volcano-final-evacuations-as-lava-cuts-off-roads/9829600)

This is a story about it in the Australian news. I hope there isn't too many casualties Oscar even if it suddenly stops now I guess there will be a fair period of recuperation.
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: fruitlovers on June 03, 2018, 03:21:12 AM
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-06-03/hawaii-volcano-final-evacuations-as-lava-cuts-off-roads/9829600 (http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-06-03/hawaii-volcano-final-evacuations-as-lava-cuts-off-roads/9829600)

This is a story about it in the Australian news. I hope there isn't too many casualties Oscar even if it suddenly stops now I guess there will be a fair period of recuperation.
If by casualties you mean deaths, there have been zero deaths after a whole month of this going on. It's not a threat to lives, it's much more of a threat to livelihoods, houses, properties, possesions, infrastructure. The folks in charge have done a great job of keeping everyone out of harm's way. Only one person so far was hurt by a freak lava rock ejected from a lava fountain. Recently a person commited suicide. But that was due to separation from spouse as well as their losing their house at same time. So yes the psychological tolls add up. There is a lot of stress. But overall the community is handling it remarkably well. There will be a very long period of rebuilding and readjustment also when this eruption cycle ends.
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: Mike T on June 03, 2018, 03:42:55 AM
I meant trees, businesses and property not humans. Being an ongoing 'disaster', the stress must be terrible as there is no relief because it hasn't finished. The authorities often cop heat during natural disasters and it is great if the community is cohesive and together with dealing with it. 
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: fruitlovers on June 03, 2018, 05:15:12 AM
I meant trees, businesses and property not humans. Being an ongoing 'disaster', the stress must be terrible as there is no relief because it hasn't finished. The authorities often cop heat during natural disasters and it is great if the community is cohesive and together with dealing with it.
It hasn't finished, and worse yet, nobody knows. or has any educated guesses, of when it will finish. That is also a big part of the stress. The number 88 days is thrown around a lot, just because that is how long the 1955 flow, to which this is compared, lasted. But there is really no reason to believe the number of days duration will be similar.
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: KarenRei on June 03, 2018, 11:03:12 AM
It looks very bad for Kapoho with anything short of a miracle.  It is also troubling that there are flows very near the descent line heading down towards Nanawale Bay.  If things do not stop soon, it is probably going to chomp off another piece of island, making more areas inaccessible.  It would be nice if Pele could just settle on one area & cover it in lava rather than claiming more and more of the island.

John
Pele can shut off just as mysteriously as she comes on. Look for example at the 2014 flow. It went 14 miles and then shut off only 400 ft. from Pahoa town. Is that a miracle? Look also at 1955 flow, headed straight towards Vacationland and then shut off less than 1/2 mile from the coast. Is that a miracle? Whatever you want to call it i hope it happens again because Kapoho Beach lots is really a beautiful and special area. It is the very first area i lived in when i first got here. Right now it sure doesn't look good.

Said miracle will need to happen today or tomorrow if it's going to happen in time.

(https://volcanoes.usgs.gov/observatories/hvo/maps_uploads/image-462.jpg)
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: KarenRei on June 03, 2018, 06:30:56 PM
The miracle did not come  :(

(https://volcanoes.usgs.gov/observatories/hvo/maps_uploads/image-465.jpg)

This is heartbreaking...  :(

(http://www.bigislandvideonews.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/2018-06-03-lava-UPDATE.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/Y8JXB5h.jpg)
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: fruitlovers on June 03, 2018, 06:49:55 PM
Now that it has reached the coast the flow is an will cotinue widen considerably due to flat land. Looks like it will take out that whole coastline, including about 500 homes there. The media cycle seems to be behind the curve on this one, as it is the most destructive part of the eruption, and they haven't picked up on it yet?
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: KarenRei on June 03, 2018, 07:39:51 PM
You can see in the picture how much lava is still flowing into this flow, so it doesn't look like it'll be choking off anytime soon....     :(
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: shot on June 03, 2018, 07:55:36 PM
green lake gone next the tide pools sad!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: KarenRei on June 03, 2018, 08:18:15 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=crWlt8UgUWk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=crWlt8UgUWk)
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: simon_grow on June 04, 2018, 03:52:37 PM
Hey Oscar, how are you doing? Any plans to evacuate? I hope you stay safe out there.

Simon
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: fruitlovers on June 04, 2018, 04:58:48 PM
Hey Oscar, how are you doing? Any plans to evacuate? I hope you stay safe out there.

Simon
Hi Simon, i'm fine. No plans to evacuate as yet. We are safe, just a bit stressed out....as you might imagine. Last few days have been raining rocks here from fissure 8, the one doing most of the damage now. That fissure is only 2 miles away, but fortunately downhill from us.
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: ScottR on June 04, 2018, 06:23:02 PM
Hey Oscar, how are you doing? Any plans to evacuate? I hope you stay safe out there.

Simon
Hi Simon, i'm fine. No plans to evacuate as yet. We are safe, just a bit stressed out....as you might imagine. Last few days have been raining rocks here from fissure 8, the one doing most of the damage now. That fissure is only 2 miles away, but fortunately downhill from us.
That sounds like a sucky situation Oscar, hang in there hope you don't have to evacuate! ::)
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: KarenRei on June 04, 2018, 06:35:26 PM
Lava's now flowing into Kapoho Bay.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7t0EmqU1DcU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7t0EmqU1DcU)

No surprises, but....   :(
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: KarenRei on June 05, 2018, 03:48:45 AM
New, vigorous (hot on IR) flow on the south side of the Kapoho flow:

(https://volcanoes.usgs.gov/observatories/hvo/maps_uploads/image-467.jpg)

On the upside, it'll rob the original flow of vigor; it won't die instantly but it should eventually peter out.  On the downside, the new flow is headed right for Vacationland in its own right, and doesn't have all that far to go  :Þ  They're basically going to re-merge.
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: behlgarden on June 05, 2018, 12:19:34 PM
Oscar, its a very sad and grave situation out there and my heart goes out to all affected.

I studied geology and am a civil/environmental engineer. what worries me the most is pressure built up. normally fissures dont open if main volcano crater can take all that pressure and blow lava into the air. When pressure underground increases, lava will escape weak points first. Is lava flowing out of main crater? I am not sure about that. Eventually if pressure continues to rise, you may see a new crater form at any fissures after it blows off the top OR main crater blows the top off. Hope that does not happen and riftzone relieves that pressure from mounting beyond control. Something to remember, be safe.
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: KarenRei on June 05, 2018, 12:44:51 PM
It's been a while since any new eruptive fissures opened, despite all of the rift's threatening to move west. The eastern vents have closed, which you wouldn't expect if there was some extreme overpressure. Looks - at least as it stands - like the current vents are dealing with the flow rate.

Fissures are not unusual when it comes to basaltic volcanism, and you don't have to have the main crater erupting at the same time, by any stretch.  More often than not, the magma will even basically "erupt into the ground" - splitting a dike but with the magma never reaching the surface - to those on the surface, it comes across as nothing more than a propagating quake swarm. An eruptive fissure is a surface expression of a dike.

Oscar would be more familiar with the ratio of fissure to crater eruptions in Hawaii and their typical behavior, but where I am, most eruptions are fissure eruptions***.  It's usually the thicker, more explosive andesitic / rhyolitic lavas  (e.g. characteristic of volcanoes in the Ring of Fire) that are reluctant to stray far from their main crater.

*** One big difference is that we're a spreading centre while Hawaii isn't.  So for example, we don't get "3 decade-long very low flow rate eruptions" like they do; we tend more toward massive lava eruptions, 3 months to a couple years long.
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: KarenRei on June 05, 2018, 06:08:48 PM
Kapoho Bay is gone.
Vacationland is gone.

(https://volcanoes.usgs.gov/observatories/hvo/maps_uploads/image-469.jpg)

500 homes destroyed last night.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yg1WsDihjro (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yg1WsDihjro)

Lava fountaining height reduced at fissure 8.  Good. Assuming this is representative of a sustained reduced influx rate, this will reduce the distance flows can reach from the fissure before they die off.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oPtHJw0xRZs (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oPtHJw0xRZs)
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: shot on June 05, 2018, 06:26:30 PM
One of the most beautiful spots in puna hawaii makes me so sad.
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: fruitlovers on June 06, 2018, 05:45:52 PM
Oscar, its a very sad and grave situation out there and my heart goes out to all affected.

I studied geology and am a civil/environmental engineer. what worries me the most is pressure built up. normally fissures dont open if main volcano crater can take all that pressure and blow lava into the air. When pressure underground increases, lava will escape weak points first. Is lava flowing out of main crater? I am not sure about that. Eventually if pressure continues to rise, you may see a new crater form at any fissures after it blows off the top OR main crater blows the top off. Hope that does not happen and riftzone relieves that pressure from mounting beyond control. Something to remember, be safe.
No there is no lava flow out of main crater (Halemaumau), only explosions of ash. The heightened pressure was caused by the bottom dropping out of that crater, and of another feeder crater (PuuO'o). Both these craters had large lava lakes and when their bottoms dropped out all that lava in those lakes was injected into the lower east rift zone. It seems that the pressure is going down now as there are a lot less active fissures, only one very active one, and the lava fountain on that one is getting smaller every day.
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: fruitlovers on June 06, 2018, 05:54:48 PM
It's been a while since any new eruptive fissures opened, despite all of the rift's threatening to move west. The eastern vents have closed, which you wouldn't expect if there was some extreme overpressure. Looks - at least as it stands - like the current vents are dealing with the flow rate.

Fissures are not unusual when it comes to basaltic volcanism, and you don't have to have the main crater erupting at the same time, by any stretch.  More often than not, the magma will even basically "erupt into the ground" - splitting a dike but with the magma never reaching the surface - to those on the surface, it comes across as nothing more than a propagating quake swarm. An eruptive fissure is a surface expression of a dike.

Oscar would be more familiar with the ratio of fissure to crater eruptions in Hawaii and their typical behavior, but where I am, most eruptions are fissure eruptions***.  It's usually the thicker, more explosive andesitic / rhyolitic lavas  (e.g. characteristic of volcanoes in the Ring of Fire) that are reluctant to stray far from their main crater.

*** One big difference is that we're a spreading centre while Hawaii isn't.  So for example, we don't get "3 decade-long very low flow rate eruptions" like they do; we tend more toward massive lava eruptions, 3 months to a couple years long.
The continuous eruption here since 1983 has all been out of a feeder crater called Puu O'O, not the main crater. Puu O'o has caused flows downstream for those 35 years downstream mostly through surface and lava tubes. There has not been lava flows from fissures here since 1960 and 1955. All those spectacular fountains of lava have not occured previousy for 58-63 years. Now that Puu O'o has finished nobody knows what is in store for future. Will another crater below main crater start flowing, or will the flow continue for a long time through a fissure creating a new crater?
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: fruitlovers on June 06, 2018, 06:02:18 PM
Kapoho Bay is gone.
Vacationland is gone.

500 homes destroyed last night.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yg1WsDihjro (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yg1WsDihjro)

Lava fountaining height reduced at fissure 8.  Good. Assuming this is representative of a sustained reduced influx rate, this will reduce the distance flows can reach from the fissure before they die off.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oPtHJw0xRZs (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oPtHJw0xRZs)
The total house destruction in that area right now is estimated at 300, not 500.
A section of northern Kapoho is still there. I lived in a house on Kapoho Beach lots that is one of the few still standing. I guess there are about 35-40 houses still standing in northern Kapoho Beach lots. But ofcourse all those houses are isolated due to no road access. It will be a very big problem now to find housing for all the displaced people. Very many of those houses were vacation rentals, but there were people that lived there year round. There is not enough housing here for the hundreds displaced. I think a lot of them will have to move back to the mainland. It will take many years to recover from all this destruction. I wonder how long it will be even before the roads are repaired? Probably many months or years.
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: ReneeFLL on June 06, 2018, 06:36:01 PM
That is all so scary. Glad you are ok.
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: KarenRei on June 06, 2018, 06:50:05 PM
Kapoho Bay is gone.
Vacationland is gone.

500 homes destroyed last night.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yg1WsDihjro (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yg1WsDihjro)

Lava fountaining height reduced at fissure 8.  Good. Assuming this is representative of a sustained reduced influx rate, this will reduce the distance flows can reach from the fissure before they die off.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oPtHJw0xRZs (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oPtHJw0xRZs)
The total house destruction in that area right now is estimated at 300, not 500.
A section of northern Kapoho is still there. I lived in a house on Kapoho Beach lots that is one of the few still standing. I guess there are about 35-40 houses still standing in northern Kapoho Beach lots. But ofcourse all those houses are isolated due to no road access.

Just quoting KHON (linked), based on the info that was available of the time of the report.

As expected, the flow continues to expand. No signs of any alternative flows forming elsewhere that might cut off this one.

(https://volcanoes.usgs.gov/observatories/hvo/maps_uploads/image-471.jpg)

Though the bay is gone, I hope that the home you lived in makes it. I know the area will never be the same, but....

Quote
It will be a very big problem now to find housing for all the displaced people. Very many of those houses were vacation rentals, but there were people that lived there year round. There is not enough housing here for the hundreds displaced. I think a lot of them will have to move back to the mainland. It will take many years to recover from all this destruction. I wonder how long it will be even before the roads are repaired? Probably many months or years.

Are people not opening up their homes for them?

Is there just not enough housing period for them, or is it a problem of there being no money to house them? I mean, surely with all of the vacation housing in Hawaii there's enough rooms available, isn't there? Is it a money thing? 
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: fruitlovers on June 06, 2018, 07:58:58 PM
The estimate you quote is not an official estimate, but based on a guess of total number of homes in area. BTW, many of the structures were greenhouses, sheds, storage, and other structures that are not counted in all these official estimates.
Many AirBnb's have opened up their homes for free to refugees. None of the hotels have done so, as far as i know. This is all on a voluntary basis, and obviously is not a permanent solution. Some of the churches are helping with housing. The local government is starting to place tiny houses on church grounds, and waiving some of their usual codes and rules. Now that over 100 homes were destroyed FEMA will start to help. Yes FEMA has a minimum in order to help?!?! I think most people are staying with friends and relatives or have already left long time ago. The shelters are almost all at capacity right now, and those are also temporary. As usual it is the poorer people that suffer the most. Most in that area were middle class, but there were also retirees, and many poorer long time residents.
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: nullzero on June 06, 2018, 08:56:59 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zAW1kAUN4qw&feature=youtu.be (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zAW1kAUN4qw&feature=youtu.be)
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: KarenRei on June 07, 2018, 04:22:37 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zAW1kAUN4qw&feature=youtu.be (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zAW1kAUN4qw&feature=youtu.be)

Irony alert: when I went to watch this video, the ad YouTube decided to show was of a giant volcano erupting in the movie Jurassic World.  :Þ

First time I heard some actual flow rate figures.  I know these figures are impressive by Hawaiian standards, although they're really low from what I'm used to (6-9m cubic metres per day; 9m/day = 100 cubic metres per second... when Bárðarbunga started erupting she was at 1000 cubic metres per second, and spent months in the several-hundred range, and nearly a year over 100).  It's just the location that's terrible with this one.  Actually reminds me a lot of Eldfell / Heimaey... similar onset, similar flow rate, similarly terrible location.

Impressive pictures of the crater's ongoing collapse.  We actually don't get to see most of our craters directly, as they're covered in thick glaciers; instead we get ice cauldrons (https://www.google.is/search?biw=1745&bih=937&tbm=isch&sa=1&ei=j-0YW7KZOJDRwALjk53oAg&q=sigketill&oq=sigketill&gs_l=img.3...0.0.0.50070.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0..0.0....0...1c..64.img..0.0.0....0.r6GpmrijY1E), which actually look surprisingly similar, except out of ice.

Thanks for the link!

Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: fruitlovers on June 07, 2018, 04:25:59 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zAW1kAUN4qw&feature=youtu.be (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zAW1kAUN4qw&feature=youtu.be)

Irony alert: when I went to watch this video, the ad YouTube decided to show was of a giant volcano erupting in the movie Jurassic World.  :Þ
Bigger irony, some of the scenes for Jurassic World were shot here in Kalapana.
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: fruitlovers on June 07, 2018, 04:49:35 AM
In this video nurseryman explains huge loss to potted plant and orchid industry due to loss of Kapoho. Both he and his wife ran nurseries, had several properties, and are now homeless.
http://www.bigislandvideonews.com/2018/06/06/video-residents-mourn-sudden-loss-of-kapoho/ (http://www.bigislandvideonews.com/2018/06/06/video-residents-mourn-sudden-loss-of-kapoho/)
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: KarenRei on June 07, 2018, 06:41:16 AM
Whenever I'm scrolling around the area on Google Maps - which puts icons on businesses  - I kept seeing nursery after nursery in the path that the lava took.

Now I keep seeing videos popping up on YouTube now - very few views, just posted by random people, not professional "YouTubers" - of the place they used to live before it got wiped out, wanting people to see how beautiful it once was.  And one thing that stands out is all of the care that went into the plants, even from people who weren't running nurseries. On one, filmed just after the eruption started, you could see a couple little saplings, still staked down, having clearly been planted recently.  Surrounded by mature, well-cared-for growth. You can't just "rebuild" that environment like you can rebuild a house....  :(
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: fruitlovers on June 07, 2018, 06:13:39 PM
Whenever I'm scrolling around the area on Google Maps - which puts icons on businesses  - I kept seeing nursery after nursery in the path that the lava took.

Now I keep seeing videos popping up on YouTube now - very few views, just posted by random people, not professional "YouTubers" - of the place they used to live before it got wiped out, wanting people to see how beautiful it once was.  And one thing that stands out is all of the care that went into the plants, even from people who weren't running nurseries. On one, filmed just after the eruption started, you could see a couple little saplings, still staked down, having clearly been planted recently.  Surrounded by mature, well-cared-for growth. You can't just "rebuild" that environment like you can rebuild a house....  :(
Yes there were lots of nurseries in Kapoho, Leilani, and in Pohoiki. Also very many beautiful gardens created by people trying to carve out their own version of paradise. There were also some world class collection of plants. For example, in Leilani there was the palm collection of the president of International Palm Society. Not sure if that property was flowed over or not. I hope not as it was one of a kind palm collection, a real gem.
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: Finca La Isla on June 07, 2018, 08:44:57 PM
So this tragedy has us focusing on a rather small area of the Big island and some of the many things that were going on there.  I realize that Kona has a very different climate, not appropriate for many of the projects that have been lost with this event.  But what about the other side of Hilo?  Are there lots of projects over there, and if not, why?
Interested,
Peter
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: nullzero on June 07, 2018, 09:07:13 PM
So this tragedy has us focusing on a rather small area of the Big island and some of the many things that were going on there.  I realize that Kona has a very different climate, not appropriate for many of the projects that have been lost with this event.  But what about the other side of Hilo?  Are there lots of projects over there, and if not, why?
Interested,
Peter

Cost of land mainly, its much cheaper per acre down in Puna then in Hilo and north of Hilo.
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: fruitlovers on June 08, 2018, 01:41:24 AM
So this tragedy has us focusing on a rather small area of the Big island and some of the many things that were going on there.  I realize that Kona has a very different climate, not appropriate for many of the projects that have been lost with this event.  But what about the other side of Hilo?  Are there lots of projects over there, and if not, why?
Interested,
Peter
North of Hilo is called the Hamakua coast. I have an orchard there myself. And yes there are nurseries there also. North of Hilo is geologically a lot older area, so there is real soil there, not just lava rock. So it's actually a lot more ideal for growing plants. But as someone just posted, the land is very costly, and also the lots are very large, as in 25 acres or larger.
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: KarenRei on June 08, 2018, 08:03:38 PM
Latest map.  Just a slow expansion across a broad front.

(https://volcanoes.usgs.gov/observatories/hvo/maps_uploads/image-473.jpg)
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: fruitlovers on June 09, 2018, 12:20:28 AM
What you probably don't realize from that map is that the "slow" expansion has added more than 1.3 miles to the coast line. In other words, the property lots that used to be adjacent to the ocean are now 1.3 miles from the ocean. There is a huge lava delta that has formed.
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: Seanny on June 09, 2018, 12:25:26 AM
Do the owners get to extend property line to new expansion?
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: KarenRei on June 09, 2018, 07:26:19 AM
What you probably don't realize from that map is that the "slow" expansion has added more than 1.3 miles to the coast line. In other words, the property lots that used to be adjacent to the ocean are now 1.3 miles from the ocean. There is a huge lava delta that has formed.

Not at all playing down the magnitude of what's happened overall - not by any stretch.  Just talking about how much less it's expanded in the past few days than in previous days.  Deeper water, broader front, lower flow rate out of fissure 8.

At some point in the future, the flow rate will drop to the point where it can no longer sustain this long of a flow path, and expansion in the "bay" will cease - potentially replaced by another, shorter flow elsewhere.  It'd be pretty remarkable if the current flow could expand further east than Cape Kumukahi, but I really doubt that's going to happen.
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: Luisport on June 09, 2018, 10:27:08 AM
One member from Forum Bananas were i post lost everythind he and his family have...
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: Luisport on June 09, 2018, 10:38:24 AM
One member from Forum Bananas were i post lost everythind he and his family have...
If you can make a donation thru Alva's wife Paypal Account which is Mommyinthegarden@gmail.com
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: fruitlovers on June 09, 2018, 06:23:05 PM
One member from Forum Bananas were i post lost everythind he and his family have...
If you can make a donation thru Alva's wife Paypal Account which is Mommyinthegarden@gmail.com
Nice young couple. Very sad to see them lose the new house they had just built, and all the plants they had put in.
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: HIfarm on June 09, 2018, 06:24:16 PM
One member from Forum Bananas were i post lost everythind he and his family have...
I believe that Alva was also active on this forum from time to time as "chupa king".
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: fruitlovers on June 09, 2018, 06:25:34 PM
Do the owners get to extend property line to new expansion?
No they retain their original boundaries. If what you suggest happened than their property would increase 100x or more.
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: fruitlovers on June 09, 2018, 06:26:42 PM
One member from Forum Bananas were i post lost everythind he and his family have...
I believe that Alva was also active on this forum from time to time as "chupa king".
Not sure, but i will ask him.
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: fruitlovers on June 09, 2018, 06:32:09 PM
What you probably don't realize from that map is that the "slow" expansion has added more than 1.3 miles to the coast line. In other words, the property lots that used to be adjacent to the ocean are now 1.3 miles from the ocean. There is a huge lava delta that has formed.

Not at all playing down the magnitude of what's happened overall - not by any stretch.  Just talking about how much less it's expanded in the past few days than in previous days.  Deeper water, broader front, lower flow rate out of fissure 8.

At some point in the future, the flow rate will drop to the point where it can no longer sustain this long of a flow path, and expansion in the "bay" will cease - potentially replaced by another, shorter flow elsewhere.  It'd be pretty remarkable if the current flow could expand further east than Cape Kumukahi, but I really doubt that's going to happen.
I wish your guess would be true, but there is no good reason to believe so. We're only one month in, and the '55 flow lasted 3 months. Fissure 8 is still putting out lava fountains over 200 feet tall. It could go on for a much longer time, or it could all stop tomorrow. Nobody has the slightest inklling of knowledge on this.
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: Mike T on June 09, 2018, 07:00:57 PM
In most places the government owns extra land created.http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-06-08/hawaii-volcano-eruption-now-its-worst-on-record/9849540 (http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-06-08/hawaii-volcano-eruption-now-its-worst-on-record/9849540)

Oscar, are you going to wait for all the disruptions to ease and take stock of things before getting the business back running at capacity like before?
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: KarenRei on June 09, 2018, 07:03:09 PM
Do the owners get to extend property line to new expansion?
No they retain their original boundaries. If what you suggest happened than their property would increase 100x or more.

That's unfortunate.  Here I'm pretty sure that property owners land actually gets extended (not just from lava flows, but also jökulhlaup, which are volcanic glacial outburst floods carrying massive amounts of sediment... sort of like "temporarily add a flood-stage Amazon River to the country").

New map - even smaller changes (although they're just showing one day of flows this time, not two). Also, the increasing depth of the water could be distorting how much material is actually being laid down.

(https://volcanoes.usgs.gov/observatories/hvo/maps_uploads/image-475.jpg)
 
They've now added in a dashed line for the former coastline, which is helpful.

Hopefully she'll lay down a lot of material just below the waves.  Some new shallows that can be recolonized over time.  Fresh nutrients and unoccupied habitats for life. New formations for divers to see.

Yeah, I'm trying to see the positives here, I really am  ;)
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: fruitlovers on June 09, 2018, 11:56:42 PM
Do the owners get to extend property line to new expansion?
No they retain their original boundaries. If what you suggest happened than their property would increase 100x or more.

That's unfortunate.  Here I'm pretty sure that property owners land actually gets extended (not just from lava flows, but also jökulhlaup, which are volcanic glacial outburst floods carrying massive amounts of sediment... sort of like "temporarily add a flood-stage Amazon River to the country").

New map - even smaller changes (although they're just showing one day of flows this time, not two). Also, the increasing depth of the water could be distorting how much material is actually being laid down.


 
They've now added in a dashed line for the former coastline, which is helpful.

Hopefully she'll lay down a lot of material just below the waves.  Some new shallows that can be recolonized over time.  Fresh nutrients and unoccupied habitats for life. New formations for divers to see.

Yeah, I'm trying to see the positives here, I really am  ;)

The amount of material being laid down is still massive. Forget how many millions of cubic yards per day was quoted. Yes a lot of the material is going into very deep water so doesn't show up on that map.
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: fruitlovers on June 10, 2018, 12:04:44 AM
In most places the government owns extra land created.http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-06-08/hawaii-volcano-eruption-now-its-worst-on-record/9849540 (http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-06-08/hawaii-volcano-eruption-now-its-worst-on-record/9849540)

Oscar, are you going to wait for all the disruptions to ease and take stock of things before getting the business back running at capacity like before?
Not sure yet. For a long time everything was so unstable. I wasn't even sure that i could drive to post office to mail things off. Or even that my area would be evacuated while i was at the post offcie. Right now i'm feeling a lot better because a couple of alternative roads have been opened up. So at least don't think i will be trapped in here. They're even talking of putting in large portable generators should the flow take out the power lines to our area. I will try to resume service as soon as possible. Today i spent the whole day mowing. Had not done that for about 6 weeks. I also lost my employees as they are not allowed to drive into this area. My road is closed to all through traffic, only residents with proof or residence, are allowed in.
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: KarenRei on June 10, 2018, 07:26:47 PM
New map.  Small amount of movement in Leilani, for the first time in over a week.  :Þ

(https://volcanoes.usgs.gov/observatories/hvo/maps_uploads/image-477.jpg)

If it does start significantly flowing there, I'm not sure what path it would take.  There's a bit of a ridge at Lava Tree, and it's blocked off on the downhill (eastern) end by the northern lobe of the current flow.  I'm not sure if any new lava would  flow over the ridge and/or the northern lobe, or go around the ridge to the north, closer to Nanawale.

The northern lobe points to the slope of the ground in that direction - northeast.  At Nanawale the slope is aligned with the roads, generally north-northeast.
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: fruitlovers on June 10, 2018, 08:03:31 PM
That very small amount of lateral movement in Leiani is in a different area from the area feared levee could break, which is close to intersection of 132 and Pohoiki road. If  levee broke it could flood the area known as Lava Tree park, which is on 132. Nanawale is not in any danger. Look at lines of steepest descent (blue lines on map). Any flow there would take the lava just east of Nanawale and cross Government Beach road on the coast. Problem with that is that such a fllow would block escape route to 2 more different communities, Papaya Farm Road and Waa Waa.
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: KarenRei on June 10, 2018, 08:37:15 PM
That very small amount of lateral movement in Leiani is in a different area from the area feared levee could break, which is close to intersection of 132 and Pohoiki road. If  levee broke it could flood the area known as Lava Tree park, which is on 132. Nanawale is not in any danger. Look at lines of steepest descent (blue lines on map). Any flow there would take the lava just east of Nanawale and cross Government Beach road on the coast. Problem with that is that such a fllow would block escape route to 2 more different communities, Papaya Farm Road and Waa Waa.

So do you think it would flow over the ridge at Lava Tree, or over the north lobe?  Because both of those present somewhat of a barrier to flow.

https://www.google.is/maps/@19.4851424,-154.900583,15.21z/data= (https://www.google.is/maps/@19.4851424,-154.900583,15.21z/data=)!5m1!1e4

If you turn on satellite and see that farm and those white-roofed buildings southeast of Lava Tree Inn - the farm and all but one of those buildings has been flowed over by the north lobe.  It reaches all the way to that ridge on the north side of Lava Tree.  So do you think that the lava would flow over the ridge, or over the north lobe?  I'm not so sure that's the easy way downhill.  Might be, but it's not clear to me that it is.

If it can't get through there, then the easiest flow path is north.  Which is closer to Nanawale than is comfortable.

Regardless of what it does, I'm not so sure it could make it all the way to Government Beach Road.  That's a pretty long flow, and this isn't a new eruption anymore.

Anyway, hoping that this hypothetical becomes irrelevant and that the current ocean entries continue to be the main flow path...

Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: fruitlovers on June 11, 2018, 02:08:13 AM
Yes, it's all hypothetical because levee has not broken and there's not really any reason to think it will break, just something they're watching carefully.
If the flow were to go into parts of Lava Tree park, then the flow would proceed just east of Nanawale. Don't look at google maps. Look at a topo maps and you can get much better idea of actual topography, for example: https://ngmdb.usgs.gov/img4/ht_icons/Browse/HI/HI_Pahoa%20South_349642_1994_24000.jpg
As for your idea that this is not a new flow and it can't reach Government Beach road, what do you base that on? All the geologists are saying there is no sign of letup. It's pumping just as much material now as it was before. The only thing that has changed is that there are less fissures erupting. All the flow is concentrated in fissure 8. But that one is still maintaining fountains of 200 feet. It's just getting a lot less attention by media now because it's all going into the ocean and no houses are being destroyed.
The big danger is not for Nanawale, but for the rest of Leilani. Fissures 9 and 10, which are uprift of current flow have been gassing and there has been some incandesence, and they could go off again. I hope that does not happen because if that happened a much larger part of Leilani residential area would be destroyed.
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: KarenRei on June 11, 2018, 04:14:04 AM
Yes, it's all hypothetical because levee has not broken and there's not really any reason to think it will break, just something they're watching carefully.
If the flow were to go into parts of Lava Tree park, then the flow would proceed just east of Nanawale. Don't look at google maps. Look at a topo maps and you can get much better idea of actual topography, for example: https://ngmdb.usgs.gov/img4/ht_icons/Browse/HI/HI_Pahoa%20South_349642_1994_24000.jpg

That's an excellent topo map, thanks for that. But it also shows the ridge north of Lava Tree.  Since this is a US map, I'll assume that these are feet; it shows that the ridge is 40-60 feet high.  Do you think it would go to flow over a 40-60 foot ridge?  Or over the lava flow that's met up with the ridge on its eastern end?  I'm just trying to understand what you're picturing.  I can see that as a possibility, but it's not to me obvious that that's the easiest path downhill, for lava starting in Leilani at the height of the ridge line.  It certainly would be if the north lobe hadn't already butted up against the ridge...

A big unknown, at least for me, is the thickness of the flow in the north lobe at that point. If it's not that thick, then it's not much of a barrier.

And yes, I'm glad that this is all hypothetical at this point  :)

Quote
All the geologists are saying there is no sign of letup.

They've noted a reduction in flow rates, as indicated by fountain heights, at several points in time.  It's been mentioned in some of the USGS videos.  As of 3 days ago, they were talking about it varying from 130 to 230 feet.  It used to be a sustained 250 feet.  So long as flow rates keep declining, that will reduce it's ability to flow such long distances away from the fissure.  Of course, I have no ability to say whether it will continue declining as such, only to note that that's the general trend of volcanic eruptions.

Quote
The big danger is not for Nanawale, but for the rest of Leilani. Fissures 9 and 10, which are uprift of current flow have been gassing and there has been some incandesence, and they could go off again. I hope that does not happen because if that happened a much larger part of Leilani residential area would be destroyed.

Not at all to downplay the danger to the rest of Leilani. I certainly have no ability to say what's going to happen underground.  All I can say about the lava is, whenever it's on the surface, it will move downhill - up to the point that it cuts off its own path to move downhill, or something else does.  Wherein it'll emerge "somewhere else" and flow downhill from there. That's just what lava does  :)

Even if 9 and 10 don't reactivate, there's a serious risk of new flow lobes at some point in the future within Leilani, walled off by previous lobes from taking the easiest route to the coast.
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: KarenRei on June 11, 2018, 08:02:52 AM
New IR maps out.

Old: https://volcanoes.usgs.gov/observatories/hvo/maps_uploads/image-476.jpg
New: https://volcanoes.usgs.gov/observatories/hvo/maps_uploads/image-478.jpg

The Kapoho flow just doesn't look as vigorous, although part of that could be contrast, and you never know what's in deeper lava tubes. But the noteworthy change is near Leilani; there's definitely multiple new flows spilling out to the sides of the main channel. In many places, almost like the flow is either getting stopped up (outflow) or accelerating (inflow), forcing the lava level in the channel to rise.  You can even see what looks like some "islands" in the flow going under.

Looks like the potential for even a lobe or two towards PGV.

It's especially dramatic when you zoom in on the images.
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: fruitlovers on June 11, 2018, 05:46:37 PM
New IR maps out.

Old: https://volcanoes.usgs.gov/observatories/hvo/maps_uploads/image-476.jpg (https://volcanoes.usgs.gov/observatories/hvo/maps_uploads/image-476.jpg)
New: https://volcanoes.usgs.gov/observatories/hvo/maps_uploads/image-478.jpg (https://volcanoes.usgs.gov/observatories/hvo/maps_uploads/image-478.jpg)

The Kapoho flow just doesn't look as vigorous, although part of that could be contrast, and you never know what's in deeper lava tubes. But the noteworthy change is near Leilani; there's definitely multiple new flows spilling out to the sides of the main channel. In many places, almost like the flow is either getting stopped up (outflow) or accelerating (inflow), forcing the lava level in the channel to rise.  You can even see what looks like some "islands" in the flow going under.

Looks like the potential for even a lobe or two towards PGV.

It's especially dramatic when you zoom in on the images.
There are lots of things you don't know about or can't see from these maps without being here on ground. For example, in Leilani and on Noni Farms Rd. (132) there are huge cracks were massive amounts of lava has gone underground. At one point close to the coast there is also a crater that swallowed up a huge quantity of lava.
The diminishing height of the fountain does not mean lava flow is decreasing. There are currently 3 fountains blowing out of fissure 8, so just because the height of one of them is lower does not mean anything about total flow rate. In fact, the conclusion of geologists is the opposite of what you are making. They are saying that the flow could increase because gas emission from fissure 8 just doubled: 
"Yesterday's measurements show that gas emissions from the fissure system have nearly doubled, possibly indicating an increase in eruption rate from Fissure 8, scientists say."
http://www.bigislandvideonews.com/2018/06/10/6-pm-eruption-update-minor-spillover-of-fissure-8-lava-channels/ (http://www.bigislandvideonews.com/2018/06/10/6-pm-eruption-update-minor-spillover-of-fissure-8-lava-channels/)
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: fruitlovers on June 11, 2018, 05:54:55 PM
Yes, it's all hypothetical because levee has not broken and there's not really any reason to think it will break, just something they're watching carefully.
If the flow were to go into parts of Lava Tree park, then the flow would proceed just east of Nanawale. Don't look at google maps. Look at a topo maps and you can get much better idea of actual topography, for example: https://ngmdb.usgs.gov/img4/ht_icons/Browse/HI/HI_Pahoa%20South_349642_1994_24000.jpg

That's an excellent topo map, thanks for that. But it also shows the ridge north of Lava Tree.  Since this is a US map, I'll assume that these are feet; it shows that the ridge is 40-60 feet high.  Do you think it would go to flow over a 40-60 foot ridge?  Or over the lava flow that's met up with the ridge on its eastern end?  I'm just trying to understand what you're picturing.  I can see that as a possibility, but it's not to me obvious that that's the easiest path downhill, for lava starting in Leilani at the height of the ridge line.  It certainly would be if the north lobe hadn't already butted up against the ridge...

A big unknown, at least for me, is the thickness of the flow in the north lobe at that point. If it's not that thick, then it's not much of a barrier.

And yes, I'm glad that this is all hypothetical at this point  :)

Quote
All the geologists are saying there is no sign of letup.

They've noted a reduction in flow rates, as indicated by fountain heights, at several points in time.  It's been mentioned in some of the USGS videos.  As of 3 days ago, they were talking about it varying from 130 to 230 feet.  It used to be a sustained 250 feet.  So long as flow rates keep declining, that will reduce it's ability to flow such long distances away from the fissure.  Of course, I have no ability to say whether it will continue declining as such, only to note that that's the general trend of volcanic eruptions.

Quote
The big danger is not for Nanawale, but for the rest of Leilani. Fissures 9 and 10, which are uprift of current flow have been gassing and there has been some incandesence, and they could go off again. I hope that does not happen because if that happened a much larger part of Leilani residential area would be destroyed.

Not at all to downplay the danger to the rest of Leilani. I certainly have no ability to say what's going to happen underground.  All I can say about the lava is, whenever it's on the surface, it will move downhill - up to the point that it cuts off its own path to move downhill, or something else does.  Wherein it'll emerge "somewhere else" and flow downhill from there. That's just what lava does  :)

Even if 9 and 10 don't reactivate, there's a serious risk of new flow lobes at some point in the future within Leilani, walled off by previous lobes from taking the easiest route to the coast.
It's difficult to predict what the lava flow will do. When flows have continuous stops and starts then they can easily build up walls to 40-60 foot height. That's not very likely, but it is possible.
BTW, there is not a single scientist saying that the flow rate is not sufficient to reach Government Beach road. On the contrary plans are in the works to have an alternate road out of the area. The flow rate is sufficient to reach 8 miles from Leilani to Kapho, so i don't know why you would think it could not reach the coastline elsewhere? These fountains are flowing here 24/7 for weeks on end. I think you don't realize the massive amounts of lava flow that is occuring.
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: KarenRei on June 12, 2018, 05:11:02 AM
The diminishing height of the fountain does not mean lava flow is decreasing. There are currently 3 fountains blowing out of fissure 8, so just because the height of one of them is lower does not mean anything about total flow rate. In fact, the conclusion of geologists is the opposite of what you are making. They are saying that the flow could increase because gas emission from fissure 8 just doubled: 
"Yesterday's measurements show that gas emissions from the fissure system have nearly doubled, possibly indicating an increase in eruption rate from Fissure 8, scientists say."
http://www.bigislandvideonews.com/2018/06/10/6-pm-eruption-update-minor-spillover-of-fissure-8-lava-channels/ (http://www.bigislandvideonews.com/2018/06/10/6-pm-eruption-update-minor-spillover-of-fissure-8-lava-channels/)

Not at all in contradiction with "Of course, I have no ability to say whether it will continue declining as such, only to note that that's the general trend of volcanic eruptions", and in line with "almost like the flow is either getting stopped up (outflow) or accelerating (inflow), forcing the lava level in the channel to rise."  :)  Any eruption will fluctuate up and down in the short term. I just find it unlikely that by the time the current lobe would get cut off and a new lobe would form and traverse that much terrain, that the flow rate would still be high enough to sustain it - that's all.

But it's good that they're preparing for that possibility, however.

As for Leilani, from the latest map, it looks like the hypothetical situation isn't an issue, at least as of today:

(https://volcanoes.usgs.gov/observatories/hvo/maps_uploads/image-479.jpg)

Should be clearer once the next IR map comes out whether the lava levels have gone back down in the main flow channel.  That IR map really made it look like the lava had "overflowed", rather than the channel itself rupturing.
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: Luisport on June 12, 2018, 05:16:18 AM
 
@CivilDefenseHI
 5 hHá 5 horas
Mais
CD, Mon, 6/11, 6PM Gas emissions from the fissure eruption very high.  Trades pushing vog SW around the island to Kona area. Monitor latest air quality measurements http://mkwc.ifa.hawaii.edu/vmap/ (http://mkwc.ifa.hawaii.edu/vmap/) . Community meeting on volcanic ash & vog Thurs, 5:30 p.m. Ocean View Community Center.
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: KarenRei on June 13, 2018, 08:29:50 AM
IR maps out.

Old: https://volcanoes.usgs.gov/observatories/hvo/maps_uploads/image-478.jpg
New: https://volcanoes.usgs.gov/observatories/hvo/maps_uploads/image-480.jpg

Most notable news: fissure 18 has opened back up, although at a very low rate.  So either fissure 8 has started clogging, or there's renewed pressure underground.

The liquid height in the main fissure 8 flow appears to have gone back down. One noticeable difference: one of the branched paths halfway along the flow appears to have died off.  It's not clear when this happened; if this started blocking off a couple days ago then that could have been what raised the lava levels in the flow from fissure 8.  If it's new, however, it could lead to another increase in flow heights.
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: KarenRei on June 14, 2018, 06:48:56 PM
New map:

(https://volcanoes.usgs.gov/observatories/hvo/maps_uploads/image-482.jpg)

For the first time, there's no new expansion near the ocean entries - only underwater.  There's a couple new expansions closer to the fissure - hopefully they'll stop like the last one did.  No news about fissures 16 and 18, except that they are still erupting.

ED: IR out.

Old2: https://volcanoes.usgs.gov/observatories/hvo/maps_uploads/image-478.jpg
Old1: https://volcanoes.usgs.gov/observatories/hvo/maps_uploads/image-480.jpg
New: https://volcanoes.usgs.gov/observatories/hvo/maps_uploads/image-483.jpg

The flow path up to Kapoho appears to continue to lose side channels, and just in general looks less healthy.
Fissures 16 and 18 appear to be in decline once again.
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: fruitlovers on June 16, 2018, 05:13:10 AM
If you believe this eruption is slowing down, or that it can't reach the coast elsewhere, then watch this video:
https://www.facebook.com/milekalincoln.hnn/videos/1816004911791728/?hc_ref=ARSz4vyyzglJMG_PpV3Ba7tyTwN5NbhAPKgq1jktk5jiBUtDlfKRXVmjUR0OQWrftHM (https://www.facebook.com/milekalincoln.hnn/videos/1816004911791728/?hc_ref=ARSz4vyyzglJMG_PpV3Ba7tyTwN5NbhAPKgq1jktk5jiBUtDlfKRXVmjUR0OQWrftHM)
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: Mark in Texas on June 16, 2018, 09:20:25 AM
Good God that seems to be moving fast.  Is that for real?  I was in Puna years ago as flows were taking out houses, roads, etc.  The flow I was close to on a road was creeping, not moving hardly at all.
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: KarenRei on June 16, 2018, 10:25:56 AM
Those speeds seem reasonable for near the fissure.  That corresponds to a cross section of around 7 square meters.  Remember that when it emerges it's hot and has very low viscosity, so it prefers fast, thin flows.  The further away from the vent you get the cooler the lava, the higher the viscosity, and the more it deepens and spreads out.  Here's a video that has shots of what the flow looks like at the Kapoho entry:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U2ZL9tI4eGw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U2ZL9tI4eGw)

A week ago:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZ1bkxAuxTk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZ1bkxAuxTk)

The flow is only 100m³/s. Which is a lot by Hawaiian standards, but not global standards. Fountaining fluctuating, but in general 130-200 feet.

New map. Not much changed, although it's slowly filling in the gap between the Kapoho flow and the northern lobe (which may be due to the reduction in flow channels on the Kapoho flow, as per the IR image, causing some spillover).

(https://volcanoes.usgs.gov/observatories/hvo/maps_uploads/image-484.jpg)

It's not really blocked in there - beyond the small gap between the Kapoho flow and the northern lobe, one can expect the flow thickness near the gap to be significantly less than the thickness at the main channel from which the lava is pouring in.
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: fruitlovers on June 16, 2018, 06:12:35 PM
Good God that seems to be moving fast.  Is that for real?  I was in Puna years ago as flows were taking out houses, roads, etc.  The flow I was close to on a road was creeping, not moving hardly at all.
Yes it's for real. Was estimated to be of speed of 7 meters per second close to fountain and 1 meter per second at ocean entry. 7 meters per seconds was said to be 15 mph? That would mean that the 8 mile trajectory to ocean makes it there in about 1/2 an hour.
I'm guessing the flow you saw was the Kalapana flow? That was in 1990, when i first got here. That flow moved slow because it was totally different from current eruption. The Kalapana flow was lava overflowing from a lake inside of the  crater (Puu O.o). The current flow is from lava fountains. In other words, lava that is at very high pressure and highly liquid.
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: Mark in Texas on June 17, 2018, 07:53:56 AM
That's just plain crazy, and sad.   Looks to be faked, but I believe you.

1990 would be about right.
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: shpaz on June 17, 2018, 08:10:44 AM
oh wow that flow looks so fast. I am shocked!
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: KarenRei on June 17, 2018, 08:33:45 AM
New thermal image out.

Older: https://volcanoes.usgs.gov/observatories/hvo/maps_uploads/image-480.jpg
Old: https://volcanoes.usgs.gov/observatories/hvo/maps_uploads/image-483.jpg
New: https://volcanoes.usgs.gov/observatories/hvo/maps_uploads/image-485.jpg

Only obvious change is that the Kapoho entry point has moved from the northern end to the southern end - I guess she decided that there's some tidepool areas that she's yet to destroy  :Þ. The rest of the flow looks largely unchanged. Oh, and also they've stopped following F16 / F18, calling them just "small flows"
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: zands on June 17, 2018, 02:48:54 PM
If you believe this eruption is slowing down, or that it can't reach the coast elsewhere, then watch this video:
https://www.facebook.com/milekalincoln.hnn/videos/1816004911791728/?hc_ref=ARSz4vyyzglJMG_PpV3Ba7tyTwN5NbhAPKgq1jktk5jiBUtDlfKRXVmjUR0OQWrftHM (https://www.facebook.com/milekalincoln.hnn/videos/1816004911791728/?hc_ref=ARSz4vyyzglJMG_PpV3Ba7tyTwN5NbhAPKgq1jktk5jiBUtDlfKRXVmjUR0OQWrftHM)

More fast flow lava rivers at her twitter page. Mileka Lincoln. Check out her Instagram page https://www.instagram.com/milekalincoln/ (https://www.instagram.com/milekalincoln/)
I posted this elsewhere and people were amazed.
Good luck, stay safe Oscar!
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: fruitlovers on June 18, 2018, 03:09:12 AM
That's just plain crazy, and sad.   Looks to be faked, but I believe you.

1990 would be about right.
Definitely not fake. Went to see it last night. Looked just like in that video. Calculated the 7 meters per second rate and it came out to 33 mph. But now hear flow rate can vary at the fountain from 30 to 45 mph.
1990 flow was the one that took out the Kalapana subdivision and black sand beaches.
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: fruitlovers on June 18, 2018, 03:14:27 AM
New thermal image out.

Older: https://volcanoes.usgs.gov/observatories/hvo/maps_uploads/image-480.jpg
Old: https://volcanoes.usgs.gov/observatories/hvo/maps_uploads/image-483.jpg
New: https://volcanoes.usgs.gov/observatories/hvo/maps_uploads/image-485.jpg

Only obvious change is that the Kapoho entry point has moved from the northern end to the southern end - I guess she decided that there's some tidepool areas that she's yet to destroy  :Þ. The rest of the flow looks largely unchanged. Oh, and also they've stopped following F16 / F18, calling them just "small flows"
All the tide pools destroyed many days ago. That new area covered is over rocky coastline with no tidepools.
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: KarenRei on June 18, 2018, 07:50:55 AM
This is just rocky coastline?

https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/viewer?mid=11tCiLa42FId7GMtg-4UkEoAI9QozTVFD&hl=en_US&ll=19.483772072867744%2C-154.81905203394876&z=17 (https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/viewer?mid=11tCiLa42FId7GMtg-4UkEoAI9QozTVFD&hl=en_US&ll=19.483772072867744%2C-154.81905203394876&z=17)

Certainly looks shallow on all the maps I checked.
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: fruitlovers on June 18, 2018, 04:41:52 PM
This is just rocky coastline?

https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/viewer?mid=11tCiLa42FId7GMtg-4UkEoAI9QozTVFD&hl=en_US&ll=19.483772072867744%2C-154.81905203394876&z=17 (https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/viewer?mid=11tCiLa42FId7GMtg-4UkEoAI9QozTVFD&hl=en_US&ll=19.483772072867744%2C-154.81905203394876&z=17)

Certainly looks shallow on all the maps I checked.
The Waiopae tidepools were covered several days ago.
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: KarenRei on June 18, 2018, 05:09:55 PM
Is the lava map wrong, or are the things that look like tidepools and are labeled as tidepools wrong?

Regarless, moot point now with the latest map:

(https://volcanoes.usgs.gov/observatories/hvo/maps_uploads/image-486.jpg)
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: fruitlovers on June 18, 2018, 06:44:15 PM
I go by reports of people that actually live there. The area now being covered is well south of the tidepools. Also the maps tend to be a couple of days out of date by the time they publish them.
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: KarenRei on June 20, 2018, 10:16:55 AM
Latest map. Not too much on the map itself...

(https://volcanoes.usgs.gov/observatories/hvo/maps_uploads/image-487.jpg)

However, the IR is more interesting.

Old: https://volcanoes.usgs.gov/observatories/hvo/maps_uploads/image-485.jpg
New: https://volcanoes.usgs.gov/observatories/hvo/maps_uploads/image-488.jpg

There seems to be some overflow from the main channel during the first third of its travels. The cause looks to potentially be at the first fork: the northern channel looks to be half closed off. If that continues and that channel dies, it'll be the most alteration in flow patterns since the Kapoho flow began.  Guess we'll know tomorrow. It could still reestablish, but if it gets any more cutoff from how it is now, I'd expect its closure to be a self-perpetuating process.
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: KarenRei on June 22, 2018, 06:01:20 AM
New IR map:

https://volcanoes.usgs.gov/observatories/hvo/maps_uploads/image-488.jpg
https://volcanoes.usgs.gov/observatories/hvo/maps_uploads/image-490.jpg

The Kapoho entry point has moved even further south.  On one hand, it's great that the area it's flowing over doesn't have much there.  On the other hand, I don't like how resistant it's being to go straight to the sea, as if it's built up somewhat of a barrier for itself. Kind of worries me that if it builds up too much resistance on the southern front, it might choose to flow into the remaining houses on the north side of Kapoho  :Þ

No change - neither improvement or worsening - in the health of the flow at the northern branch of the first fork. The partial obstruction that first appeared in the last IR image is still visible.
Title: Re: Earthquake on big island Ha. made new eruption Pahoa evacuated !!
Post by: fruitlovers on June 23, 2018, 12:46:09 AM
New IR map:

https://volcanoes.usgs.gov/observatories/hvo/maps_uploads/image-488.jpg
https://volcanoes.usgs.gov/observatories/hvo/maps_uploads/image-490.jpg

The Kapoho entry point has moved even further south.  On one hand, it's great that the area it's flowing over doesn't have much there.  On the other hand, I don't like how resistant it's being to go straight to the sea, as if it's built up somewhat of a barrier for itself. Kind of worries me that if it builds up too much resistance on the southern front, it might choose to flow into the remaining houses on the north side of Kapoho  :Þ

No change - neither improvement or worsening - in the health of the flow at the northern branch of the first fork. The partial obstruction that first appeared in the last IR image is still visible.
Resistance in going into sea? What resistance is that? The vast majority of the lava is going into deep sea right now.