Author Topic: 1 acre subtropical food forest: what would you do?  (Read 15735 times)

huertasurbanas

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Re: 1 acre subtropical food forest: what would you do?
« Reply #25 on: June 17, 2013, 11:53:03 AM »
Wow, -9c in the sub-tropics? I dont think we get that very often in our 'alpine' regions here...
We had our coldest morning in 5 years today, with a chilly 4.4c, but by the time I left for work it was t-shirt weather...

Just twice a century (or a bit more) we had -9º C, but I had to mention this because a forest should live "forever" ;-)


Usually frosts are -4º C, or some years -7º C, but with a good grove of trees, water ponds, rocks and so, we should be able to keep the trees growing. Dont you think?

Today we had -1º C. Winter starts in 4 days


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I agree that Eleagnus is a very tough family. Start with Oscar's So-Shang, Taiwan Sweet Olive, Goumi and the regular Autumn Olive. Most need male and female, but I think all are very forgiving in their care, fertilization and water requirements and bear heavily.

Great, we dont have any of these trees, will have to get seeds

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I would also stick in a self-pollinating carob, Red Shahtoot Mulberry (its dwarf and non-weedy - must be grafted), maybe Japanese Raisin, Loquats, Nuts (Pecan, Chestnut) and for a long term project I would stick in a few Bunya nuts near a fence line.

Great for this non-weedy mulberry!: we have japanese raisin seeds, some loquat (here we call them níspero) trees too (near the forest garden), they will be fine; and there are some normal nuts and almonds, we have to get some non-grafted pecan, etc. Very nice this bunya (Araucaria bidwillii), I loved it :D

Tropicdude

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Re: 1 acre subtropical food forest: what would you do?
« Reply #26 on: June 17, 2013, 01:12:12 PM »
I agree, with your response to my previous post, every project and piece of land will have to be approached differently.  reclaiming cattle lands in a semi arid tropical desert will obviously have greater challenges than a tree lot.  swales wont be used on flat lands. and so on.

Permaculture the way I see it, mimics what nature does, but you are assisting it, and speeding up the process. in a way the humans can benefit.   an ounce of planning now, can save tons of labor later.   again, I think sharing your experiences will help many, as most other projects are in the tropics.

good luck

William
William
" The best time to plant a tree is 20 years ago.....The second best time, is now ! "

TriangleJohn

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Re: 1 acre subtropical food forest: what would you do?
« Reply #27 on: June 17, 2013, 01:37:15 PM »
I my area (just a tiny bit colder than the climate you are talking about) Loquat does well, but it rarely fruits. It is still worth growing because with its large canopy of evergreen leaves it forms a microclimate under and around it so less hardy plants survive. I have one planted up against the wall of the house thinking that the added protection might allow me to see fruits on a mild year but the added benefit is that it protects a large European Olive plants beside it. I believe it shelters it from hard frosts and that it sucks all the water out of the soil, and the olive likes things dryer.

With my large food garden - just about everyone is impressed with the basket of food I can harvest all year long, but very few people want to actually help me pick the berries or dig the roots. Even gardeners that visit me make comments about the amount of work I put into my crops - that to them it isn't worth it, they have too many other things to do, they don't want to work this hard. What I would give to have ten sets of hands helping me.

huertasurbanas

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Re: 1 acre subtropical food forest: what would you do?
« Reply #28 on: June 17, 2013, 02:18:23 PM »
I my area (just a tiny bit colder than the climate you are talking about) Loquat does well, but it rarely fruits. It is still worth growing because with its large canopy of evergreen leaves it forms a microclimate under and around it so less hardy plants survive. I have one planted up against the wall of the house thinking that the added protection might allow me to see fruits on a mild year but the added benefit is that it protects a large European Olive plants beside it. I believe it shelters it from hard frosts and that it sucks all the water out of the soil, and the olive likes things dryer.

Loquats do well here, this info you gave is very useful, we will use loquats in that way!

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With my large food garden - just about everyone is impressed with the basket of food I can harvest all year long, but very few people want to actually help me pick the berries or dig the roots. Even gardeners that visit me make comments about the amount of work I put into my crops - that to them it isn't worth it, they have too many other things to do, they don't want to work this hard. What I would give to have ten sets of hands helping me.

Where do u live?

Here we just could give away of sell the leftover...

TriangleJohn

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Re: 1 acre subtropical food forest: what would you do?
« Reply #29 on: June 17, 2013, 02:37:47 PM »
I live in Raleigh North Carolina - a nice mild climate with plenty of rain. Many people garden, but most city yards are small and trees grow so big here that very few people have land where there is a lot of sunshine. Raleigh is known as the city of oaks and in the older neighborhoods it is not uncommon to see large oak trees 65 - 85 - 100 feet tall. I am lucky in that I found a large lot on the edge of the city that has only a few oak trees and they are up near the house on the north side, so the rest of my yard/garden is in full sun shine.

I take my surplus to work and give it to my co-workers or I donate it to the local food bank. In the future (5-10 years from now) when I retire from work I will hopefully use my large garden to sell fruits and vegetables at the local farmers market which is right down the street from my house.

Because my garden is new, it takes a lot of work just setting things up. I'm still building my greenhouse and a chicken house. I like to build things myself, my friends are the type that pay someone else to do it for them.

fruitlovers

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Re: 1 acre subtropical food forest: what would you do?
« Reply #30 on: June 17, 2013, 04:27:23 PM »
As far as latitude usually it's broken down something like this:
0-10 degrees from equator: ultra tropical
10-20 degrees from equator: tropical
20-35 degrees from equator sub tropical
35 and higher latiudes: temperate
But many other things like elevation play a factor. So you can for example have sub tropical climates in high elevation tropics.
As far as latitude Junin being at 34.5 latitude you are right in margin between sub tropical and temperate. But from what you say you have too many freezes to be considered truly sub tropical in my opinion. Some plants considered sub tropical may grow fine in your area but others will not.
Oscar

huertasurbanas

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Re: 1 acre subtropical food forest: what would you do?
« Reply #31 on: June 17, 2013, 11:38:21 PM »
Yes Oscar, we are in the limit, but if Erythrina crista-galli (ceibo, la flor nacional) survives here we should grow almost anything.

at 21º F "It froze back to the ground and came back both times"

http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/go/38374/#ixzz2WXJplUGL
idem: http://www.uplandnursery.com/index.php?cPath=22_27

What happens to the Erythrina crista-galli in the winter frosts at Junin is that the leaves from the top are burnt, just that.

fruitlovers

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Re: 1 acre subtropical food forest: what would you do?
« Reply #32 on: June 17, 2013, 11:59:52 PM »
Yes Oscar, we are in the limit, but if Erythrina crista-galli (ceibo, la flor nacional) survives here we should grow almost anything.

at 21º F "It froze back to the ground and came back both times"

http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/go/38374/#ixzz2WXJplUGL
idem: http://www.uplandnursery.com/index.php?cPath=22_27

What happens to the Erythrina crista-galli in the winter frosts at Junin is that the leaves from the top are burnt, just that.

OK that is good to hear. BTW am growing some E. crista-galli here. Very pretty orange flowers.
Oscar

Jsvand5

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Re: 1 acre subtropical food forest: what would you do?
« Reply #33 on: June 18, 2013, 11:45:47 AM »
I'd try peaches. They grow like weeds and makes tons of fruit. I probably get 700-800 peaches a year from my two trees.

Tropicdude

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Re: 1 acre subtropical food forest: what would you do?
« Reply #34 on: June 18, 2013, 04:36:26 PM »
Today I had some fig newtons, and it reminded me of this thread,  Figs are another good fruit to have.  a few months ago I got really excited about honey berries ( Lonicera caerulea ) but was disappointing when I discovered they have only been known to grow as far south as central Florida.  there seems to be a good market for these in some countries. my understanding is they harvest at a different time than blueberries, so are an additional crop for growers to fill a gap.
William
" The best time to plant a tree is 20 years ago.....The second best time, is now ! "

huertasurbanas

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Re: 1 acre subtropical food forest: what would you do?
« Reply #35 on: June 18, 2013, 06:46:03 PM »
I'd try peaches. They grow like weeds and makes tons of fruit. I probably get 700-800 peaches a year from my two trees.

Yes, for sure! in fact, this is one of the main jobs of my friend.

Today I found on eMule network a video of Geoff Lawton translated into Spanish subs, "2008 Lawton-Establishing a Food Forest the Permaculture Way", is excellent, basically begins with legumes to fix nitrogen, will do that, I think.

PS: very thanks tropicdude!

huertasurbanas

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Re: 1 acre subtropical food forest: what would you do?
« Reply #36 on: June 21, 2013, 08:55:41 AM »
Already in the place there is a row of casuarinas protecting the environment of the southern wind (which here is chill wind), the Solar Trap is great, I imagine the Feijoas could be fine because they have glossy foliage and can grow as shrubs such as trees, right? .. nearby nursery sells cheap shrublets feijoa, which would have almost solved the issue of solar trap horseshoe shape.

I ask you something, would it make sense to raise the ground in a place where we want to plant a tropical tree? the idea was to lift but based on logs / wood and organic matter that will decompose, also to raise some heat, but I was wondering if being raised would help the icy wind did not damage delicate trees in that area? maybe we can plant a jaboticaba there :D

I guess the combination of sun trap, ground up, rocks near the trunk and puddles should achieve to reduce frost in certain places, and "forever"

TriangleJohn

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Re: 1 acre subtropical food forest: what would you do?
« Reply #37 on: June 21, 2013, 10:11:03 AM »
Using rotting logs and branches under a raised bed is called "hugelkultur". I don't know if it makes a difference heat-wise but it does seem to improve poor soils, it takes years to really show a major difference though. Most of the gardeners around here using it have only just installed their gardens, so it is hard to tell how much good it does.

In my yard, Honeyberries ripen about the same time as early blueberries (O'Neal being the earliest for me). They are pretty sour and need to be processed into juice with sugar or sweeteners added to make them tasty for most people. I think up in the far north they are the first berry to ripen so a very important crop, but this far south they are on the same schedule as early blues.

I would plant rows of natives or plants that you know do well there but leave room between the rows for experimental crops. Let the hardy stuff shield the not-so-hardy from winter.

I have seen gardeners plant evergreen bushes in tight clusters, leaving enough space in the middle of three or four bushes so that they can move a potted tropical into the sheltered spot. Most winters they can get away with it but every once in a while we have a really cold winter and it wipes them out. In my yard I have tropicals in pots that I know can take a tiny amount of cold weather so I leave them out longer and shelter the really tender stuff first - that way I'm not rushing around trying to move a bunch of plants the first sign of winter.

My fruit area is about an acre big and right now I can only harvest a small bowl of berries from it. Three weeks ago I could get a bucket full and next month I will probably be able to pick a bucket or two of blackberries. There's a lot of fruit out there but it isn't always ripe when you want it. Everything comes in waves. It helps to plant a bunch of different varieties, but still I have days where I can only pick a small bowl of fruit.