Excalibur and Lorito Mamey Sapote Cultivars.

[Tropicalgrower89]

Does anybody know the specs about the Mamey Sapote cultivars Lorito and Excalibur?

For example, precocity, tree growth habit (tall, upright, low, spreading, growth rate etc..), fruit quality.


Thank you,

[johnb51]

And please comment on Pace, as well.

[Tropicalgrower89]

And please comment on Pace, as well.

I'll help you out on that one. According to what I've read and heard, Pace is very precocious, which means that it begins to bear fruit at an early age.  In fact, my young 3.5-4 ft tall pace mamey has small fruits developing on the trunk.  The tree does have some sort of cold tolerance and has a tall growth habit. The flesh is salmon-colored and the fruit has a tear drop shape to it. Some people say that it's one of the best tasting, if not the best tasting mamey out there.

Here's a picture:





I'll take some pics of my pace mamey trees tomorrow.

[Cookie Monster]

From what I was told, the big draw of the Lorito is the red flesh color. It bears in summer. Can't remember if it is precocious. I believe it's from the yucatan.

Regarding the Excalibur, when I asked one of the more knowledgeable workers about it (I think his name was Wilson), he said that it was an 'OK' cultivar.

Jeff

[bsbullie]

Wilson has been long gone.  Even though he had knowledge he also was known for giving info that was not 100% accurate/correct.  I will see what I can find out tomorrow.

Why would the red flesh color be a drawback ?

[murahilin]

Wilson has been long gone.  Even though he had knowledge he also was known for giving info that was not 100% accurate/correct.  I will see what I can find out tomorrow.

Why would the red flesh color be a drawback ?

The big 'draw' not drawback.

Also, who is 100% accurate/correct. Even I am at 99%. For the few years that I worked that at Excalibur, Wilson was probably the most accurate person there. If he did not know something he readily said so and when he knew something he said it. That does not mean that everyone would like the same tasting mamey. It may have been okay to him but wonderful to others. I think that goes for everything. I do not think accuracy/correctness apply to his comment, I think it was more one of his opinion of the fruit, which he is entitled.

[Tropicalgrower89]

Thanks for your help!^  I'm planning on selling my kent mango which has been in the ground since May of last year. It's on a small mound so it should be easy to dig without hurting the roots. After selling the kent, I would like to plant another mamey cultivar in it's place. I'm also planning to do the same thing with the glenn mango and plant another mamey cultivar in its place also. Depending on the extra info Bsbullie gives me on the Excalibur or lorito, I might go with either one or get a magana if both aren't precocious.  I'll also email Lara Farms to see if they are selling the cultivar known as "Lara". Based on the UF chart, it has an Excellent* flavor, Cold* tolerance and the season is aug-sept even though the precocity is unknown along with growth habit. Pablo Lara would probably know since it's one of the varieties he made; pace being one of them.

[bsbullie]

Wilson has been long gone.  Even though he had knowledge he also was known for giving info that was not 100% accurate/correct.  I will see what I can find out tomorrow.

Why would the red flesh color be a drawback ?

The big 'draw' not drawback.

Also, who is 100% accurate/correct. Even I am at 99%. For the few years that I worked that at Excalibur, Wilson was probably the most accurate person there. If he did not know something he readily said so and when he knew something he said it. That does not mean that everyone would like the same tasting mamey. It may have been okay to him but wonderful to others. I think that goes for everything. I do not think accuracy/correctness apply to his comment, I think it was more one of his opinion of the fruit, which he is entitled.

Well, I know for fact and dealing with him as well as other customers comments, he gave information that was inaccurate.  I am not saying he always did but he did at times.  As I stated, I am not discounting he was knowledgeable but giving false information or steering somebody based on his thoughts when your thoughts are wrong make the information inaccurate/incorrect.  I would much rather somebody say I don't know, let me find out" than give a response based on a best guess or your thoughts.

[bsbullie]

Wilson has been long gone.  Even though he had knowledge he also was known for giving info that was not 100% accurate/correct.  I will see what I can find out tomorrow.

Why would the red flesh color be a drawback ?

The big 'draw' not drawback.

Also, who is 100% accurate/correct. Even I am at 99%. For the few years that I worked that at Excalibur, Wilson was probably the most accurate person there. If he did not know something he readily said so and when he knew something he said it. That does not mean that everyone would like the same tasting mamey. It may have been okay to him but wonderful to others. I think that goes for everything. I do not think accuracy/correctness apply to his comment, I think it was more one of his opinion of the fruit, which he is entitled.

my bad...

[Tropicalgrower89]

And please comment on Pace, as well.

Here are some pics of my pace mamey trees John.

[Tropicalgrower89]

Magana Mamey videos by Dr. Crane. 

http://trec.ifas.ufl.edu/fruitscapes/Fruitscapes-videos/mamey/playlist1/mamey_sapote_harvest.shtml

http://trec.ifas.ufl.edu/fruitscapes/Fruitscapes-videos/mamey/playlist2/mamey_sapote_care.shtml

[bsbullie]

The Excalibur Mamey produces a fruit of extreme quality.  It is longer and not as ovoid as a typical mamey (Pace, Pantin, etc.) with more scaling on the surface.  The flesh is very sweet, a dark reddish brick to burgundy color, very moist,  and completely fiberless.  The tree itself has no differing growth characteristic (not dwarf or any more compact) and is not particularly precocious but I was told the fruit well makes up for it.  On the other hand, the Lorito is more precocious but the fruit itself is of not of the same quality level.  From what Richard said, and he has both varieties to sell, the Excalibur is the hands down choice.  The origin is thought to be from Mexico.

Let me know if you have any other questions.

[Tropicalgrower89]

http://trec.ifas.ufl.edu/PDFs%20&%20Docs/FruitScapes%202011.pdf

Just in case anybody is interested, page 31 of the UF pdf link shows pictures of a whole and sliced Pace, Pantin, Magana, and a Mayapan mamey fruit. I've been looking to see if I could find a picture of a sliced pace mamey to see what the flesh looked like and I found this. 

[Tropicalgrower89]

The Excalibur Mamey produces a fruit of extreme quality.  It is longer and not as ovoid as a typical mamey (Pace, Pantin, etc.) with more scaling on the surface.  The flesh is very sweet, a dark reddish brick to burgundy color, very moist,  and completely fiberless.  The tree itself has no differing growth characteristic (not dwarf or any more compact) and is not particularly precocious but I was told the fruit well makes up for it.  On the other hand, the Lorito is more precocious but the fruit itself is of not of the same quality level.  From what Richard said, and he has both varieties to sell, the Excalibur is the hands down choice.  The origin is thought to be from Mexico.

Let me know if you have any other questions.

Thanks Rob! I really appreciate it.    I'll might buy a magana and an excalibur mamey sapote after selling the glenn and kent mango trees. I'll be enjoying mameys from my 2  precocious pace mameys and the magana, so the wait for the excalibur to fruit wont be so painful.   

[Cookie Monster]

I like Richard, but I don't think he would ever 'dis' a fruit named after his nursery :-). Going from experience on a mango tree with the same name, I would likely get a second opinion regarding the flavor before committing to a 7 year wait for fruit :-).

The #1 mamey breeder in the state has to be Lara Farms. They have decades worth of experience, acres worth of trees planted out, and 4 named selections. Pablo Lara is an icon in the mamey community. You'd do well to chat with Pablo if you're wanting to learn more about good mamey cultivars. He's usually around in the mornings.

I think the Viejo is supposed to be an excellent cultivar.

Jeff

[Tropicalgrower89]

I like Richard, but I don't think he would ever 'dis' a fruit named after his nursery :-). Going from experience on a mango tree with the same name, I would likely get a second opinion regarding the flavor before committing to a 7 year wait for fruit :-).

The #1 mamey breeder in the state has to be Lara Farms. They have decades worth of experience, acres worth of trees planted out, and 4 named selections. Pablo Lara is an icon in the mamey community. You'd do well to chat with Pablo if you're wanting to learn more about good mamey cultivars. He's usually around in the mornings.

I think the Viejo is supposed to be an excellent cultivar.

Jeff

I was just thinking about that Jeff.  I don't think he would talk bad about his nursery's cultivar. lol I'm planning on stopping by Lara Farms after selling one or both of my mango trees and buying a Magana and a Lara cultivar.  Viejo does have good ratings according to the UF chart. It is precocious and has cold tolerance, but it's not recommended for home planting. But, they didn't recommend fairchild #2 canistel for home planting either.    What affected my decision to get the Lara cultivar instead of viejo was the fruit size. Lara could get up to 40 ounces while viejo can get up to 20 ounces. Both have excellent taste ratings but Lara has the * symbol next to the word "excellent". Both Viejo and Lara also have cold tolerance. The precocity and growth habit are unknown for the Lara, but I'm pretty sure Pablo would know about it since its one of the cultivars he breaded including Pace, Piloto, and Florida.

Thanks for your help Jeff. 

[FloridaGreenMan]

Make sure you taste Magana before buying a tree. Flavor wise, I would rate it at the lower end of the Mamey spectrum. I have a big Pantin that produces lots of delicious fruits. Pace is nice also. Lara Farm is the place to go to for Mamey. They are the experts!
           

[bsbullie]

Make sure you taste Magana before buying a tree. Flavor wise, I would rate it at the lower end of the Mamey spectrum. I have a big Pantin that produces lots of delicious fruits. Pace is nice also. Lara Farm is the place to go to for Mamey. They are the experts!
         

Out of what I have tasted, I agree that Pantin is at the top.

[Tropicalgrower89]

Make sure you taste Magana before buying a tree. Flavor wise, I would rate it at the lower end of the Mamey spectrum. I have a big Pantin that produces lots of delicious fruits. Pace is nice also. Lara Farm is the place to go to for Mamey. They are the experts!
         

Usually, how large does a grafted Pantin grow before giving blooms and fruits?   

Thanks for your help Noel.

[Tropicalgrower89]

Out of what I have tasted, I agree that Pantin is at the top.

 I agree also. Now since you and Noel mentioned it, I remember tasting Pantin and Magana from the super market and the Pantin has a sweeter taste to it.

[natsgarden123]

I was going to add a Mamey;  is the wait really 7 years? I was under the impression that it was a lot shorter 
Thanks
Nat

[Cookie Monster]

Depends on cultivar. The precocious cultivars (eg, pace, magana) will bear sooner. The inverted root graft is said to induce precocity as well.

[bsbullie]

Would also depend on the size you purchase.  A 3 gal will take a while, go with a larger size and the wait will be less.  All depends on how much you are willing to spend.  A Fresh picked mamey is hard to beat in terms of quality and taste.

[natsgarden123]

I might spring for a larger size so that I wouldn't have to wait . What size would fruit within a year or two?

[bsbullie]

I might spring for a larger size so that I wouldn't have to wait . What size would fruit within a year or two?

Would depend on the individual specimen...possibly a 25 gal or 45 gal.