Author Topic: Lemon zest on CA rootstocks  (Read 4132 times)

spaugh

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Lemon zest on CA rootstocks
« on: August 01, 2018, 06:23:27 PM »
Trees are sold.  Will have more trees later in the year or beginning next year.



« Last Edit: August 03, 2018, 07:50:30 PM by spaugh »
Brad Spaugh

philek9

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Re: Lemon zest on CA rootstocks
« Reply #1 on: August 01, 2018, 09:39:11 PM »
For sale 2 grafted lemon zest trees on CA rootstocks.  Simon did the grafting on these with scions from his trees and we used the most vigorous rootstocks of the lot.

100$ per tree.

Trees are in tall pots.   

I also have a few seedling (not grafted) lemon zest and sweet tarts for sale for 40$

What’s a CA rootstock?  And do you have any photos of the trees?

wslau

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Re: Lemon zest on CA rootstocks
« Reply #2 on: August 01, 2018, 10:56:02 PM »
When people say CA rootstock, they generally refer to Manila.  But we have also found Ataulfo to be just as good.  I personally am currently performing trials on Kent rootstock.
« Last Edit: August 02, 2018, 09:36:58 PM by wslau »
Warren

spaugh

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Re: Lemon zest on CA rootstocks
« Reply #3 on: August 02, 2018, 10:11:01 AM »
The LZ trees are on manilla and kent.  The rootstocks are a year old and grafts are a couple months old.  They are doing a second flush now. These are small trees, they are standing on their own and not completely potbound.  The tallpots give you a longer tap root. One tree is in a tall pot the other is in a 5gal regular pot. This is what you want to start with, not something thats staked up and been sitting in a nursery forever.

Im not shipping trees at this time and wont be delivering trees.  I don't have the bandwidth to answer a lot of questions so please serious inquiries only. 

LZ tree


Seedlings in tall pots.

Brad Spaugh

simon_grow

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Re: Lemon zest on CA rootstocks
« Reply #4 on: August 02, 2018, 11:33:10 AM »
There have been a lot of people asking me to graft trees for them over the last several years and I have declined because I have been too busy but we have a few extra trees that we are willing to let go of.

In case you weren’t aware, many of the grafted trees we have available in SoCal are on a rootstock that for some reason does not perform well when grown here in SoCal.
http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=15673.0
I have been experimenting with various rootstocks and found specific rootstocks that perform better here and started using them for our Grove trees. Some research on Mango rootstocks
http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=20816.0

For tips on growing Mangos here in SoCal, check out this thread which I need to update
http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=23124.0

I grafted a bunch of Lemon Zest trees because it is probably my number one favorite variety. Lemon Zest along with Sweet Tart are are the two Sweetest Mangos I’ve recorded from my refractometer with a Nrix reading of 32% or higher. At 32%, it is so sweet, it’s like candy. A normal very sweet mango is usually around 20% Brix.

Don’t let the name fool you, both Lemon Zest and Sweet Tart are sweet Mangos with an excellent subacid balance depending on when they are harvested and at what stage of ripening they are eaten at.

For novice mango growers or those people that want a large tree, I recommend growing seedlings from Polyembryonic varieties because seedlings lack florigenic hormones and will thus grow vegetatively for several years before flowering. This allows the seedling to put all its resources into growing nicely forming strong branches that are less droopy than grafted trees. Downside is that you are growing a seedling and there can be a chance of genetic variation or the chance that you pick the zygotic seedling. Good thing is that if you have at least two seedlings, chances are great that at least one seedling is a clone and the other may be zygotic.

Even in the case that there is only one seedling and it happens to be zygotic, you know that at least 50% of the genes are from the parent varieties and there is a good chance a Zygotic seedling will be selfed so it will have 100% of its genes from the parent variety although it will not be considered a clone because of rearrangement of genetic material.

Grafted trees will flower within the first year or two but it will produce fruit that is true to type. Because it will flower in the first year or two, it will grow slower than the seedling trees and I recommend removing all fruit from the tree until the tree reaches your desired size.

Simon


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Re: Lemon zest on CA rootstocks
« Reply #5 on: August 02, 2018, 09:01:41 PM »
Any pictures of the grafted LZ?

spaugh

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Re: Lemon zest on CA rootstocks
« Reply #6 on: August 02, 2018, 11:23:30 PM »
The LZ trees are in the 1st photo.  The tree on the left is sold.  The sweet tart seedlings are sold.
Brad Spaugh

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Re: Lemon zest on CA rootstocks
« Reply #7 on: August 02, 2018, 11:52:08 PM »
The last Lemon Zest is sold as well. The person who contacted Brad please finalize the sale since others are interested in the tree. Thanks to everyone that was interested.

These trees will thrive in our soil but you still have to use common sense when planting the trees. I’ll give a brief overview in this thread when I get a chance.

Simon

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Re: Lemon zest on CA rootstocks
« Reply #8 on: August 03, 2018, 02:29:25 AM »
When planting these trees, plant in a square shaped hole, not round. Loosen the soil to the same depth as the pot, you can loosen the soil deeper but the plant will settle more and may sink a bit over the years if you don’t compensate by planting higher.

If you have good to decent soil, there is no need to amend the soil, backfill with 100% native soil. If you want to give it a little extra love, you can add some organic tropical Fruit tree fertilizer and some beneficial soil microbes/mycorrhizal fungi. I also like to give my trees frequent dilute feedings of kelp emulsion during the establishment period.

You can top dress with a good compost and definitely mulch the tree with at least 3-4 inches of mulch. Mulch decomposes fast and needs to be replenished every 3-6 months.

If your soil is heavy clay, you should plant on a small to medium mound to allow for adequate drainage. Many new Mango growers make the mistake of adding too much organic amendments to the soil but this is a big mistake because the organic matter holds too much water and it will decompose so your tree will sink after a few years.

Think about it this way, if you add 30% organic amendments to your planting hole, the tree will likely sink by approximately 30% when that organic matter decomposes. In real life, the tree won’t sink exactly that much because the roots will grow out and anchor it a bit but it will sink a lot and can be extremely detrimental to your trees health.

I have heavy clay soil at my place and I plant on small mounds and backfill with about 50% native soil, 40% Pumice and about ten percent organic matter to get the tree going. To compensate for the loosening of the soil and for the incorporated organic matter, I plant my tree about 10% higher. It’s already on a mound but remember that the soil will settle.

For more detailed information, see this thread.

http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=23124.0

Some of my suggestions may have changed over the years as new information comes in. I have to go through the entire thread to make sure I have updated with the latest techniques that work best for growers in SoCal.
Simon

philek9

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Re: Lemon zest on CA rootstocks
« Reply #9 on: August 06, 2018, 05:28:13 PM »
Very helpful, Simon.  Thank you.

Do you guys have any recommendations on which brand(s) to use for an organic tropical fruit tree fertilizer, mycorrgizal fungi, kelp emulsion, and compost?  Or I can just look for some on Amazon and leverage their reviews.

ManVFruit

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Re: Lemon zest on CA rootstocks
« Reply #10 on: August 06, 2018, 07:06:37 PM »
.

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Re: Lemon zest on CA rootstocks
« Reply #11 on: August 06, 2018, 07:07:34 PM »
When planting these trees, plant in a square shaped hole, not round. Loosen the soil to the same depth as the pot, you can loosen the soil deeper but the plant will settle more and may sink a bit over the years if you don’t compensate by planting higher.

If you have good to decent soil, there is no need to amend the soil, backfill with 100% native soil. If you want to give it a little extra love, you can add some organic tropical Fruit tree fertilizer and some beneficial soil microbes/mycorrhizal fungi. I also like to give my trees frequent dilute feedings of kelp emulsion during the establishment period.

You can top dress with a good compost and definitely mulch the tree with at least 3-4 inches of mulch. Mulch decomposes fast and needs to be replenished every 3-6 months.

If your soil is heavy clay, you should plant on a small to medium mound to allow for adequate drainage. Many new Mango growers make the mistake of adding too much organic amendments to the soil but this is a big mistake because the organic matter holds too much water and it will decompose so your tree will sink after a few years.

Think about it this way, if you add 30% organic amendments to your planting hole, the tree will likely sink by approximately 30% when that organic matter decomposes. In real life, the tree won’t sink exactly that much because the roots will grow out and anchor it a bit but it will sink a lot and can be extremely detrimental to your trees health.

I have heavy clay soil at my place and I plant on small mounds and backfill with about 50% native soil, 40% Pumice and about ten percent organic matter to get the tree going. To compensate for the loosening of the soil and for the incorporated organic matter, I plant my tree about 10% higher. It’s already on a mound but remember that the soil will settle.

For more detailed information, see this thread.

http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=23124.0

Some of my suggestions may have changed over the years as new information comes in. I have to go through the entire thread to make sure I have updated with the latest techniques that work best for growers in SoCal.
Simon

This couldn't come at better time for me, I am glad you revived some of the old posts. I see you are also from SD, I have zero experience with Mangoes, in fact I just got few seeds of Nam Doc Mai germinated and I could not be happier with how healthy they look. What is your experience with this variety? my guess it will probably be happy until winter although where I live typically does not drop below 40F in winter.

 CA rootstock sounds like the way froward, I was wondering if anyone have suggestions on what would be best varieties for my area to graft on to CA rootstock in future. As space is limited and mainly taken up by other trees I would probably be able to handle 1-2 mango trees; with that in mind what are the absolute must have. I am not not a fan of the fibrous types and generally prefer sweet + sour fruits (not overally sweet) always on the look out for rare fruits!

zephian

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Re: Lemon zest on CA rootstocks
« Reply #12 on: August 06, 2018, 09:03:29 PM »
When planting these trees, plant in a square shaped hole, not round. Loosen the soil to the same depth as the pot, you can loosen the soil deeper but the plant will settle more and may sink a bit over the years if you don’t compensate by planting higher.

If you have good to decent soil, there is no need to amend the soil, backfill with 100% native soil. If you want to give it a little extra love, you can add some organic tropical Fruit tree fertilizer and some beneficial soil microbes/mycorrhizal fungi. I also like to give my trees frequent dilute feedings of kelp emulsion during the establishment period.

You can top dress with a good compost and definitely mulch the tree with at least 3-4 inches of mulch. Mulch decomposes fast and needs to be replenished every 3-6 months.

If your soil is heavy clay, you should plant on a small to medium mound to allow for adequate drainage. Many new Mango growers make the mistake of adding too much organic amendments to the soil but this is a big mistake because the organic matter holds too much water and it will decompose so your tree will sink after a few years.

Think about it this way, if you add 30% organic amendments to your planting hole, the tree will likely sink by approximately 30% when that organic matter decomposes. In real life, the tree won’t sink exactly that much because the roots will grow out and anchor it a bit but it will sink a lot and can be extremely detrimental to your trees health.

I have heavy clay soil at my place and I plant on small mounds and backfill with about 50% native soil, 40% Pumice and about ten percent organic matter to get the tree going. To compensate for the loosening of the soil and for the incorporated organic matter, I plant my tree about 10% higher. It’s already on a mound but remember that the soil will settle.

For more detailed information, see this thread.

http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=23124.0

Some of my suggestions may have changed over the years as new information comes in. I have to go through the entire thread to make sure I have updated with the latest techniques that work best for growers in SoCal.
Simon

This couldn't come at better time for me, I am glad you revived some of the old posts. I see you are also from SD, I have zero experience with Mangoes, in fact I just got few seeds of Nam Doc Mai germinated and I could not be happier with how healthy they look. What is your experience with this variety? my guess it will probably be happy until winter although where I live typically does not drop below 40F in winter.

 CA rootstock sounds like the way froward, I was wondering if anyone have suggestions on what would be best varieties for my area to graft on to CA rootstock in future. As space is limited and mainly taken up by other trees I would probably be able to handle 1-2 mango trees; with that in mind what are the absolute must have. I am not not a fan of the fibrous types and generally prefer sweet + sour fruits (not overally sweet) always on the look out for rare fruits!

Very helpful information Simon, thanks. I have some seedlings I'll be planting in this next year or two and this will be a big help.
ManVFruit did you get your seeds for nam doc Mai from nimfa/seedpirates? I did and they're doing very well considering USPS lost them for about two weeks... I have some manilla and tommy atkins doing fantastic too (Though I am on the other side of the state surrounded by fires currently. :( )
-Kris

ManVFruit

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Re: Lemon zest on CA rootstocks
« Reply #13 on: August 06, 2018, 09:53:38 PM »
When planting these trees, plant in a square shaped hole, not round. Loosen the soil to the same depth as the pot, you can loosen the soil deeper but the plant will settle more and may sink a bit over the years if you don’t compensate by planting higher.

If you have good to decent soil, there is no need to amend the soil, backfill with 100% native soil. If you want to give it a little extra love, you can add some organic tropical Fruit tree fertilizer and some beneficial soil microbes/mycorrhizal fungi. I also like to give my trees frequent dilute feedings of kelp emulsion during the establishment period.

You can top dress with a good compost and definitely mulch the tree with at least 3-4 inches of mulch. Mulch decomposes fast and needs to be replenished every 3-6 months.

If your soil is heavy clay, you should plant on a small to medium mound to allow for adequate drainage. Many new Mango growers make the mistake of adding too much organic amendments to the soil but this is a big mistake because the organic matter holds too much water and it will decompose so your tree will sink after a few years.

Think about it this way, if you add 30% organic amendments to your planting hole, the tree will likely sink by approximately 30% when that organic matter decomposes. In real life, the tree won’t sink exactly that much because the roots will grow out and anchor it a bit but it will sink a lot and can be extremely detrimental to your trees health.

I have heavy clay soil at my place and I plant on small mounds and backfill with about 50% native soil, 40% Pumice and about ten percent organic matter to get the tree going. To compensate for the loosening of the soil and for the incorporated organic matter, I plant my tree about 10% higher. It’s already on a mound but remember that the soil will settle.

For more detailed information, see this thread.

http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=23124.0

Some of my suggestions may have changed over the years as new information comes in. I have to go through the entire thread to make sure I have updated with the latest techniques that work best for growers in SoCal.
Simon

This couldn't come at better time for me, I am glad you revived some of the old posts. I see you are also from SD, I have zero experience with Mangoes, in fact I just got few seeds of Nam Doc Mai germinated and I could not be happier with how healthy they look. What is your experience with this variety? my guess it will probably be happy until winter although where I live typically does not drop below 40F in winter.

 CA rootstock sounds like the way froward, I was wondering if anyone have suggestions on what would be best varieties for my area to graft on to CA rootstock in future. As space is limited and mainly taken up by other trees I would probably be able to handle 1-2 mango trees; with that in mind what are the absolute must have. I am not not a fan of the fibrous types and generally prefer sweet + sour fruits (not overally sweet) always on the look out for rare fruits!

Very helpful information Simon, thanks. I have some seedlings I'll be planting in this next year or two and this will be a big help.
ManVFruit did you get your seeds for nam doc Mai from nimfa/seedpirates? I did and they're doing very well considering USPS lost them for about two weeks... I have some manilla and tommy atkins doing fantastic too (Though I am on the other side of the state surrounded by fires currently. :( )

Yes that's right, sorry to hear about the fires. Hope they have it under control?

zephian

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Re: Lemon zest on CA rootstocks
« Reply #14 on: August 06, 2018, 10:59:59 PM »
When planting these trees, plant in a square shaped hole, not round. Loosen the soil to the same depth as the pot, you can loosen the soil deeper but the plant will settle more and may sink a bit over the years if you don’t compensate by planting higher.

If you have good to decent soil, there is no need to amend the soil, backfill with 100% native soil. If you want to give it a little extra love, you can add some organic tropical Fruit tree fertilizer and some beneficial soil microbes/mycorrhizal fungi. I also like to give my trees frequent dilute feedings of kelp emulsion during the establishment period.

You can top dress with a good compost and definitely mulch the tree with at least 3-4 inches of mulch. Mulch decomposes fast and needs to be replenished every 3-6 months.

If your soil is heavy clay, you should plant on a small to medium mound to allow for adequate drainage. Many new Mango growers make the mistake of adding too much organic amendments to the soil but this is a big mistake because the organic matter holds too much water and it will decompose so your tree will sink after a few years.

Think about it this way, if you add 30% organic amendments to your planting hole, the tree will likely sink by approximately 30% when that organic matter decomposes. In real life, the tree won’t sink exactly that much because the roots will grow out and anchor it a bit but it will sink a lot and can be extremely detrimental to your trees health.

I have heavy clay soil at my place and I plant on small mounds and backfill with about 50% native soil, 40% Pumice and about ten percent organic matter to get the tree going. To compensate for the loosening of the soil and for the incorporated organic matter, I plant my tree about 10% higher. It’s already on a mound but remember that the soil will settle.

For more detailed information, see this thread.

http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=23124.0

Some of my suggestions may have changed over the years as new information comes in. I have to go through the entire thread to make sure I have updated with the latest techniques that work best for growers in SoCal.
Simon

This couldn't come at better time for me, I am glad you revived some of the old posts. I see you are also from SD, I have zero experience with Mangoes, in fact I just got few seeds of Nam Doc Mai germinated and I could not be happier with how healthy they look. What is your experience with this variety? my guess it will probably be happy until winter although where I live typically does not drop below 40F in winter.

 CA rootstock sounds like the way froward, I was wondering if anyone have suggestions on what would be best varieties for my area to graft on to CA rootstock in future. As space is limited and mainly taken up by other trees I would probably be able to handle 1-2 mango trees; with that in mind what are the absolute must have. I am not not a fan of the fibrous types and generally prefer sweet + sour fruits (not overally sweet) always on the look out for rare fruits!

Very helpful information Simon, thanks. I have some seedlings I'll be planting in this next year or two and this will be a big help.
ManVFruit did you get your seeds for nam doc Mai from nimfa/seedpirates? I did and they're doing very well considering USPS lost them for about two weeks... I have some manilla and tommy atkins doing fantastic too (Though I am on the other side of the state surrounded by fires currently. :( )

Yes that's right, sorry to hear about the fires. Hope they have it under control?
one near me just hit 2nd largest in california history... not looking good but far enough away from me all I get is the ash rain. I need to get some pictures of all my plants soon, we should compare! I'd love to see how they're growing vs similar plants from a few hundred miles south.
-Kris

spaugh

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Re: Lemon zest on CA rootstocks
« Reply #15 on: August 07, 2018, 01:55:30 AM »
Very helpful, Simon.  Thank you.

Do you guys have any recommendations on which brand(s) to use for an organic tropical fruit tree fertilizer, mycorrgizal fungi, kelp emulsion, and compost?  Or I can just look for some on Amazon and leverage their reviews.

Phil they have Dr Earth and Happy frog and some other organic stuff at the good nurseries.  You should have some kind of decent nursery nearby.  I think DR earth has a fruit tree mix in a blue bag that is 5-5-2.  That should be a good one to start with. 
Brad Spaugh

ManVFruit

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Re: Lemon zest on CA rootstocks
« Reply #16 on: August 07, 2018, 02:18:15 AM »
When planting these trees, plant in a square shaped hole, not round. Loosen the soil to the same depth as the pot, you can loosen the soil deeper but the plant will settle more and may sink a bit over the years if you don’t compensate by planting higher.

If you have good to decent soil, there is no need to amend the soil, backfill with 100% native soil. If you want to give it a little extra love, you can add some organic tropical Fruit tree fertilizer and some beneficial soil microbes/mycorrhizal fungi. I also like to give my trees frequent dilute feedings of kelp emulsion during the establishment period.

You can top dress with a good compost and definitely mulch the tree with at least 3-4 inches of mulch. Mulch decomposes fast and needs to be replenished every 3-6 months.

If your soil is heavy clay, you should plant on a small to medium mound to allow for adequate drainage. Many new Mango growers make the mistake of adding too much organic amendments to the soil but this is a big mistake because the organic matter holds too much water and it will decompose so your tree will sink after a few years.

Think about it this way, if you add 30% organic amendments to your planting hole, the tree will likely sink by approximately 30% when that organic matter decomposes. In real life, the tree won’t sink exactly that much because the roots will grow out and anchor it a bit but it will sink a lot and can be extremely detrimental to your trees health.

I have heavy clay soil at my place and I plant on small mounds and backfill with about 50% native soil, 40% Pumice and about ten percent organic matter to get the tree going. To compensate for the loosening of the soil and for the incorporated organic matter, I plant my tree about 10% higher. It’s already on a mound but remember that the soil will settle.

For more detailed information, see this thread.

http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=23124.0

Some of my suggestions may have changed over the years as new information comes in. I have to go through the entire thread to make sure I have updated with the latest techniques that work best for growers in SoCal.
Simon

This couldn't come at better time for me, I am glad you revived some of the old posts. I see you are also from SD, I have zero experience with Mangoes, in fact I just got few seeds of Nam Doc Mai germinated and I could not be happier with how healthy they look. What is your experience with this variety? my guess it will probably be happy until winter although where I live typically does not drop below 40F in winter.

 CA rootstock sounds like the way froward, I was wondering if anyone have suggestions on what would be best varieties for my area to graft on to CA rootstock in future. As space is limited and mainly taken up by other trees I would probably be able to handle 1-2 mango trees; with that in mind what are the absolute must have. I am not not a fan of the fibrous types and generally prefer sweet + sour fruits (not overally sweet) always on the look out for rare fruits!

Very helpful information Simon, thanks. I have some seedlings I'll be planting in this next year or two and this will be a big help.
ManVFruit did you get your seeds for nam doc Mai from nimfa/seedpirates? I did and they're doing very well considering USPS lost them for about two weeks... I have some manilla and tommy atkins doing fantastic too (Though I am on the other side of the state surrounded by fires currently. :( )

Yes that's right, sorry to hear about the fires. Hope they have it under control?
one near me just hit 2nd largest in california history... not looking good but far enough away from me all I get is the ash rain. I need to get some pictures of all my plants soon, we should compare! I'd love to see how they're growing vs similar plants from a few hundred miles south.

You will see on my profile couple of links to my FB group and FB page, feel free to join in. Some of our members including myself will occasionally do trades and sale etc ..

philek9

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Re: Lemon zest on CA rootstocks
« Reply #17 on: August 07, 2018, 12:43:18 PM »
Very helpful, Simon.  Thank you.

Do you guys have any recommendations on which brand(s) to use for an organic tropical fruit tree fertilizer, mycorrgizal fungi, kelp emulsion, and compost?  Or I can just look for some on Amazon and leverage their reviews.

Phil they have Dr Earth and Happy frog and some other organic stuff at the good nurseries.  You should have some kind of decent nursery nearby.  I think DR earth has a fruit tree mix in a blue bag that is 5-5-2.  That should be a good one to start with.

Thx Brad!