Author Topic: Grafting of Multiple Condo Mango to Manila?  (Read 1945 times)

Pnguyen

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Grafting of Multiple Condo Mango to Manila?
« on: March 10, 2020, 02:00:50 PM »
I am new to Tropical Forum.  I am interested in mango tree and have read many threads.  All of the threads were so valuable to the point that I wish that I have read all of the threads before my purchased of NDM and Mallika.

I am hoping that our Mango experts can shared your experience in planting Mango in SoCal.  I have a small yard but like to have varieties mango fruits.  I am thinking of grafting multiple Condo Mango onto a Manila root stock from Home Depot.  Would this be feasible? Will Manila became Condo Mango or remained as a vigorous large tree?  What are chances of successful grafting multiple cultivars of Condo Mango Scion to Manila?

simon_grow

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Re: Grafting of Multiple Condo Mango to Manila?
« Reply #1 on: March 10, 2020, 07:23:19 PM »
That is a good plan. Plant the Manilla mango into the ground and just let it grow for a while. The smaller and younger you graft the tree, the more it will be dwarfed/stunted. I would recommend letting it grow for 2-3 years before grafting but it’s really about getting it to a specific size. The size of your tree prior to grafting is dependent on how big you ultimately want your tree and how fast you want to get your tree to that size.

You can easily multigraft it with several different varieties but I would recommend keeping the number of varieties to around 2-3 or else it becomes easy to lose track of which branch is what variety and some weaker varieties or varieties grafted onto lower weaker branches may died off.

Simon

Pnguyen

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Re: Grafting of Multiple Condo Mango to Manila?
« Reply #2 on: March 10, 2020, 08:41:12 PM »
Simon, I have read your threads nightly for the last few days and learn a lot.  Your feedback of on Mango on various threads gave me the reason to pickup a Lavern Manila from Home Depot on today lunch break.  I want to make sure the Manila is available for graft if the NDM and/or Mallika did not survive.

The Manila has two stocks splinted off from main stock about 6 inches from the soil.  The secondary stock about 1/2 the size of the dominant.  The dominant stock also taller,~3 ft vs 2.5 ft. 

Should I top off the dominant to give the secondary one a chance to get bigger?
If yes, how much should I top off?
When should I top them off to have more branches for future graft? 

Thank you for quick in getting back to my first ever post.

simon_grow

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Re: Grafting of Multiple Condo Mango to Manila?
« Reply #3 on: March 10, 2020, 09:51:23 PM »
Do you have a picture of your tree? If the angle of the crotch where your branches are bifurcated is very accute, you may want to completely remove it.

Generally with Mangos grown in SoCal, I will now tell people not to mess with it much because the vegetative growth is so slow. Removing branches from a small tree growing this marginal climate where we get significantly fewer heat units than Asia and Southern Florida can stunt the tree. In some cases however, if the branches aren’t significant, it may be easier to remove when it’s younger so the tree can focus its energy on the Branch you’re going to keep.

Your Mallika and NDM will be good for taking scions from. If you can find it, try to get a hold of some NDM seeds. Maybe post a thread on the buy/sell forum when Mangos are ripening in Florida. NDM is Polyembryonic and I’ve found them to be excellent growers in SoCal. Sweet Tart and CAC are two other great tasting and excellent growers in SoCal that are also Polyembryonic.

When you plant these Polyembryonic seeds and if you’re lucky enough to get multiple sprouts from a seed with individual root systems, there is a good chance that at least one of the seedlings is a clone if you grow out at least two of the seedlings.

The benefit of growing trees from these Polyembryonic seeds is that you will not need to graft them if you are lucky enough to get a clone. Because the tree will not require grafting, it will continue to grow vegetatively until it reaches sexual maturity, however long that may be. In SoCal, you often don’t have to wait any longer than about 3-6 years.

I don’t believe I have ever mentioned this before but trees that are Not grafted at a young age( in SoCal) tend to have much better structural form because small grafted trees will often flower precociously causing a droopy structure.

If you plant a seedling and let it grow for several years, this will allow the scaffold branches to form and once you get the basic structure of the tree formed, you can begin to top work the scaffold branches.

Planting Polyembryonic seeds can help to avoid many of these issues but then Polyembryonic seeds have issues of their own that needs to be addressed.

Acquiring the seeds can be difficult and when planted, some will only have a single sprout so you won’t know if it’s a clone or the zygotic seedling. If you do get multiple sprouts with individual root systems, you still won’t know definitively which seedling/s are the clone so your best bet is to separate them and plant them both, or all ten!

I used to recommend that you just plant the seeds as is and keep two of the seedlings but I have since changed my thinking on this matter because as the two trees grow, they tend to push each other apart if not separated. Although this works, it may not give the grower the most structurally sound tree.

Simon

Pnguyen

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Re: Grafting of Multiple Condo Mango to Manila?
« Reply #4 on: March 11, 2020, 01:47:41 PM »






The difference between is not much as I have imagine.  The branching might have been a result of tipping? Home Depot has a dozen of Manila.  This is the only one with two branches.  Should I prune them back to promote more branches?  That is what the growers in Florida have on their Youtube.

simon_grow

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Re: Grafting of Multiple Condo Mango to Manila?
« Reply #5 on: March 12, 2020, 12:55:33 AM »
The angle is pretty sharp. I would remove the thinner weaker growth. Don’t worry if the thicker branch is slightly curved.

Mangos grow very differently here than compared to Florida. I would not recommend trying to get a small tree to become bushy at such a young age. Lateral growth from a bushy structure will encourage precocity which we don’t want here in SoCal.

Simon

Pnguyen

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Re: Grafting of Multiple Condo Mango to Manila?
« Reply #6 on: March 12, 2020, 01:05:11 PM »
Thank you Simon for your guides. 

I am thinking of getting the 3 in 1 or 2 in 1 grafting tool.  They can do V, U and Omega graft. I am hoping this tool will be useful for my inexperience in grafting. Does any use this tool? Can you please share your experience?

Thanks!

simon_grow

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Re: Grafting of Multiple Condo Mango to Manila?
« Reply #7 on: March 13, 2020, 11:28:25 AM »
Most the grafting tools out there are pretty horrible. I would recommend practicing with a grafting knife on and plants you have available with a similar type of wood as mango.

If you must buy a grafting tool, the Scionon tool is one of the best that I’ve personally tested. The cheaper grafting tools are pretty worthless.

Simon

Pnguyen

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Re: Grafting of Multiple Condo Mango to Manila?
« Reply #8 on: March 13, 2020, 01:57:28 PM »
Thank you!

hawkfish007

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Re: Grafting of Multiple Condo Mango to Manila?
« Reply #9 on: March 13, 2020, 02:17:56 PM »
Thank you Simon for your guides. 

I am thinking of getting the 3 in 1 or 2 in 1 grafting tool.  They can do V, U and Omega graft. I am hoping this tool will be useful for my inexperience in grafting. Does any use this tool? Can you please share your experience?

Thanks!

When I first started grafting early last year, I used this https://www.amazon.com/Hymnorq-Professional-Grafting-Rootstock-Success/dp/B082MC5NSQ/ref=sr_1_14?keywords=grafting+tool&qid=1584122877&sr=8-14 . But now I use Scionon as Simon mentioned and x-acto #2 (https://www.amazon.com/X-ACTO-Knife-Safety-Cap-Pack/dp/B071RMSV63/ref=sr_1_11?keywords=x-acto+%232+knife&qid=1584122972&sr=8-11). But the tool is still very handy for stone fruit grafting.

Here is the result from using the grafting tool for V-cut grafts. Sweet Tart and Dwarf Hawaiian grafted on Corriente rootstock. Scions are from Alex @ tropicalacresfarms , and grafted early May 2019. Scions were wrapped with buddy tape from Behl.






simon_grow

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Re: Grafting of Multiple Condo Mango to Manila?
« Reply #10 on: March 14, 2020, 02:44:34 PM »
I just also want to mention that the health and vigor of the rootstock is one of the most important factors for successful grafts. Another very important factor is timing of your grafting so that it coincides with a growth period in your rootstock and warm weather in Summer or slightly before and after.

Simon

Pnguyen

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Re: Grafting of Multiple Condo Mango to Manila?
« Reply #11 on: March 17, 2020, 07:06:01 PM »
I just also want to mention that the health and vigor of the rootstock is one of the most important factors for successful grafts. Another very important factor is timing of your grafting so that it coincides with a growth period in your rootstock and warm weather in Summer or slightly before and after.

Simon

When is the best time for grafting in Socal?  How old of the tree should it be.  Thanks.

Pnguyen

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Re: Grafting of Multiple Condo Mango to Manila?
« Reply #12 on: March 17, 2020, 07:14:44 PM »
Thank you Simon for your guides. 

I am thinking of getting the 3 in 1 or 2 in 1 grafting tool.  They can do V, U and Omega graft. I am hoping this tool will be useful for my inexperience in grafting. Does any use this tool? Can you please share your experience?

Thanks!

When I first started grafting early last year, I used this https://www.amazon.com/Hymnorq-Professional-Grafting-Rootstock-Success/dp/B082MC5NSQ/ref=sr_1_14?keywords=grafting+tool&qid=1584122877&sr=8-14 . But now I use Scionon as Simon mentioned and x-acto #2 (https://www.amazon.com/X-ACTO-Knife-Safety-Cap-Pack/dp/B071RMSV63/ref=sr_1_11?keywords=x-acto+%232+knife&qid=1584122972&sr=8-11). But the tool is still very handy for stone fruit grafting.

Here is the result from using the grafting tool for V-cut grafts. Sweet Tart and Dwarf Hawaiian grafted on Corriente rootstock. Scions are from Alex @ tropicalacresfarms , and grafted early May 2019. Scions were wrapped with buddy tape from Behl.






I think this tool reasonable for safety before I can improve my skill set in knifing. Thanks

simon_grow

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Re: Grafting of Multiple Condo Mango to Manila?
« Reply #13 on: March 17, 2020, 10:58:41 PM »
Best time to graft is when the weather warms up and nightly lows(average) is above 62F. This will give you higher chance that the scion will have a vegetative growth and not blooms. I like to graft around May- August for my microclimate.

The age of the tree should not be used as a gauge on when to graft because a stunted five year old tree may still not be large enough to graft whereas a vigorous 3 year old tree may be ready for grafting.

As mentioned before, the size of the tree, when ready to graft depends on how big and how fast you ultimately want your tree to reach the desired size. Once a tree is topworked with mature scions, it will significantly slow down the vegetative growth of the tree because the tree will try to bloom and set fruit for much of the year.

The larger the tree is when you graft it, the larger the tree will become if you compare it to the same rootstock and scion combination that is grafted as a whip.

Simon

Seanny

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Re: Grafting of Multiple Condo Mango to Manila?
« Reply #14 on: March 29, 2020, 06:58:00 PM »
To sum it up, most mango will be condo mango here in SoCal.