Author Topic: Advice for an Orlando Beginner  (Read 6768 times)

Yook

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Advice for an Orlando Beginner
« on: November 01, 2018, 09:02:53 PM »
Just bought a house in SE Orlando 9b and hope to get into fruit tree tending but am stuck in analysis paralysis. I have scanned these forums and nursery websites for the past month but have had trouble finding trends in people's success.

I keep flip flopping between wanting to try tropicals like mangoes and being worried about losing them in a frost/ not wanting to sign up for the effort of protecting them.

My current plans are:
Definitely:
-2 types of pomegranate (looking like girkanets and al-sirin-nar will be good bets. Planting 2 because I really want one to work out)
-2 avocadoes: Here I am really stumped. Reports on what produces here and what tastes good contradict and vary widely. Don't know if I can trust nursery advertisements. MarkfromTexas has scared me off of texas cados like Joey and Fantastic. Contemplating brogdon, monroe, hall, day, winter mexican, lula, lila, etc. Hopefully 2 with a wide maturation period.
-An everbearing mulberry(hard to find info on cultivars)
Potentials:
Mango-Carrie or Pickering in a pot maybe
Muscadine
Loquat- never tried one, worried they may be too sweet
Carambola
Lychee
Peaches-UFl varieties: Have heard these can be tough to grow

Hoping to plant at least one tree which will provide fruit in a reasonably short time to get my spirits up. Looks like loquats may fit that bill.

Please critique at will. I will be eternally grateful. If you have ideas for good references to learn as well I would appreciate any advice.


Triphal

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Re: Advice for an Orlando Beginner
« Reply #1 on: November 01, 2018, 09:37:29 PM »
If you know your USDA zone, average temp.lows and highs and humidity factors in each month it will help you what NOT TO PLANT in zone 9b! Also becoming a member of the Local Fruit Club will help you what you should plant and where to obtain your grafted trees from local nurseries. Good luck. Triphal

sunworshiper

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Re: Advice for an Orlando Beginner
« Reply #2 on: November 01, 2018, 10:06:10 PM »
The tropical fruit club that meets at Leu Gardens is a nice place to meet local fruit enthusiasts. You can search for my posts in this forum, I'm in the Orlando area too.  The best thing I did when planning was look up size information on plants I was considering and plot out where they would fit on my property, being realistic about how many plants I had room for, especially large trees. And deciding how dedicated you are to caring for them is another important factor. Growing mango and lychee is perfectly possible here, but cold protection is required as we are "zone pushing" a bit. If you want a low commitment plant that gives you a taste for tropicals, try a banana. They look neat, grow fast, and are easy to dig up and move (or get rid of) if you change your mind. I'd be happy to give you offsets from my plants. If I was going to choose one tree, it would be a lychee. Very hard to get fresh ones here if you don't grow your own, and aside from needing cold protecting it is a low care plant. Other fruit like mango, avocado and peaches are easy to get without growing your own, so it is worth considering how much you enjoy growing fruit vs just eating fruit. Have fun choosing!

Vernmented

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Re: Advice for an Orlando Beginner
« Reply #3 on: November 01, 2018, 10:29:29 PM »
If you know your USDA zone, average temp.lows and highs and humidity factors in each month it will help you what NOT TO PLANT in zone 9b! Also becoming a member of the Local Fruit Club will help you what you should plant and where to obtain your grafted trees from local nurseries. Good luck. Triphal

This is great advice.

Welcome to the forum!

Pomegranates aren't a great crop for Florida in my opinion.

Peaches are absolutely delicious but there can be issues with fruit fly worm, gumosis and they should be kept up with pruning.

Pickering is more dwarf than Carrie. It is a great mango. It is probably better for pot culture. I hate growing stuff in pots personally.

The early avocados will be West Indian and have less cold tolerance. Brogdon is a nice fruit. Make sure to plant on the biggest mound you can make. Lots of mulch. No flooding.

Everbearing mulberry is super easy and will fruit fast but I consider it bird food. It is just ok.

Carambola is nice. One tree would be enough. They are easy to manage as multigrafts. Keep in a sheltered area. The less wind the better.

Muscadines are nice. You need a trellis and bird netting. They also take training and pruning.

Loquats are pretty easy. They don't like standing water/flooding.

Lychee may be cold sensitive. They are tougher to keep small.

White Sapote is cold tolerant and an excellent fruit. Make sure to plant it on a mound away from standing water. These trees get horribly rootbound in conventional pots. Buy a young tree and try to untangle it's roots the best you can.

Jaboticaba and Sapodilla are also great fruits with a little cold tolerance.

Zill Dark Surinam Cherry are also nice.

I really like to plant on fertile mounds with heavy mulch.

The very best tip I can give someone planting out trees for the first time is to really inspect the roots and open up rootbound plants. Buy smaller trees. Three gallons are great and get the ones that haven't been sitting in that pot too long.

I have ripped out and replaced tons of stuff. If something doesn't work out it isn't the end of the world. Experience is the best teacher. If this is something you are going to stick with I highly recommend learning how to graft at some point. You can then direct sow seeds and graft or grow your own in root pruning pots.

Good luck!
« Last Edit: November 01, 2018, 10:31:09 PM by Vernmented »
-Josh

WGphil

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Re: Advice for an Orlando Beginner
« Reply #4 on: November 02, 2018, 10:24:50 AM »
Brogdon wlll take the cold and they ripened at the same time they were selling Hass at Publix for a buck and quarter each

Jaboticabo will take some cold also and is great looking plant and fruit is great

Mango are less hardy but a must have

One star fruit is good advice but they will freeze back but grow so fast,..

The worst cold comes out of the nothwest so the opposite side of you home is more protected

Have fun





« Last Edit: November 02, 2018, 10:26:37 AM by WGphil »

igrowmangos

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Re: Advice for an Orlando Beginner
« Reply #5 on: November 02, 2018, 11:10:22 AM »
Bad time of year to be planting anything tropical in 9B. I got mango trees going in East CFL near Bithlo. Been growing and experimenting with the zone. Here is my advice from experience so far.. Look around and you will find mango trees abound. You just have to pay attention because they are usually in backyards. Unlike tropical south fl they grow them in front of the homes so mango trees may not be visible but they're around. Do not grow them to sell them because that will be a loss for you. I have a mix bag of container mango and ground planted mango. Pickering, great choice if not the best choice for productivity in a container. Get a large container and leave it there for it's lifetime. Lychees especially sweetheart/sweet sensation doing excellent and actually like the cooler nights. Bananas love Orlando, look around. Ice Cream Bananas and some FHIA 3 Sweetheart and others (love me some bananas from backyard and plantains). Avocado Brodgen and Lula, just fine (hard to establish at first though). Citrus anykind not recommended because of the ACP/ Citrus Greening (research that). Star Fruit a thumbs up. Papayas thumbs up they grow fast. I suggest if you want to go mango go with an aggressive type that will grow quick and establish quick like a Valencia Pride but make sure you know how to prune that thing because it can quickly grow to 10ft a year. My VP was completely bald after a freeze in Feb 2018 and now 9 months later it has fully recovered with tons of new growth and im looking forward for mangos in 2019. Just give it a shot! gives you more reasons to plant and experiment. Good luck neighbor!   
“When life gives you lemons, throw it back & say, “I said I wanted a MANGO!”

sunworshiper

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Re: Advice for an Orlando Beginner
« Reply #6 on: November 02, 2018, 08:05:53 PM »
I've taken the opposite approach to mangos, choosing the smallest varieties (tree wise) so I can keep them at 6' high for easy frost protection via covering. I don't recommend a vigorous variety, they do grow fast, but they rarely fruit here. Several people nearby have 20' tall mango trees. They were knocked down to around 3' tall in the really hard freezes in 2009 and have gradually rebounded. We usually get at least one freeze each winter here that will knock back a foot or two of growth off an unprotected tree. While it doesn't kill the tree it often prevents fruiting. Observing my neighbors' unprotected trees, they will fruit maybe every 3 to 4 years due to poorly timed frost. On the other hand, I've had mangos every year for the past 5 - since my trees reached fruiting size I've had fruit every year. So frost protection does make a difference in productivity. Neither approach is "right" what is right for you is an amount of fruit you are happy with for the work involved in caring for the tree.

Yook

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Re: Advice for an Orlando Beginner
« Reply #7 on: November 02, 2018, 08:59:09 PM »
If you know your USDA zone, average temp.lows and highs and humidity factors in each month it will help you what NOT TO PLANT in zone 9b! Also becoming a member of the Local Fruit Club will help you what you should plant and where to obtain your grafted trees from local nurseries. Good luck. Triphal

This is great advice.

Welcome to the forum!

Pomegranates aren't a great crop for Florida in my opinion.

Peaches are absolutely delicious but there can be issues with fruit fly worm, gumosis and they should be kept up with pruning.

Pickering is more dwarf than Carrie. It is a great mango. It is probably better for pot culture. I hate growing stuff in pots personally.

The early avocados will be West Indian and have less cold tolerance. Brogdon is a nice fruit. Make sure to plant on the biggest mound you can make. Lots of mulch. No flooding.

Everbearing mulberry is super easy and will fruit fast but I consider it bird food. It is just ok.

Carambola is nice. One tree would be enough. They are easy to manage as multigrafts. Keep in a sheltered area. The less wind the better.

Muscadines are nice. You need a trellis and bird netting. They also take training and pruning.

Loquats are pretty easy. They don't like standing water/flooding.

Lychee may be cold sensitive. They are tougher to keep small.

White Sapote is cold tolerant and an excellent fruit. Make sure to plant it on a mound away from standing water. These trees get horribly rootbound in conventional pots. Buy a young tree and try to untangle it's roots the best you can.

Jaboticaba and Sapodilla are also great fruits with a little cold tolerance.

Zill Dark Surinam Cherry are also nice.

I really like to plant on fertile mounds with heavy mulch.

The very best tip I can give someone planting out trees for the first time is to really inspect the roots and open up rootbound plants. Buy smaller trees. Three gallons are great and get the ones that haven't been sitting in that pot too long.

I have ripped out and replaced tons of stuff. If something doesn't work out it isn't the end of the world. Experience is the best teacher. If this is something you are going to stick with I highly recommend learning how to graft at some point. You can then direct sow seeds and graft or grow your own in root pruning pots.

Good luck!

Thanks so much for the advice everyone, this helps a ton. Just curious, what makes pomegranates do poorly around here? And while the idea of tropicals like sapote is appealing, I am worried about spending some of my small yard on a fruit I haven't tried eating yet. I will definitely take a look at the roots for any trees I see.

Bad time of year to be planting anything tropical in 9B. I got mango trees going in East CFL near Bithlo. Been growing and experimenting with the zone. Here is my advice from experience so far.. Look around and you will find mango trees abound. You just have to pay attention because they are usually in backyards. Unlike tropical south fl they grow them in front of the homes so mango trees may not be visible but they're around. Do not grow them to sell them because that will be a loss for you. I have a mix bag of container mango and ground planted mango. Pickering, great choice if not the best choice for productivity in a container. Get a large container and leave it there for it's lifetime. Lychees especially sweetheart/sweet sensation doing excellent and actually like the cooler nights. Bananas love Orlando, look around. Ice Cream Bananas and some FHIA 3 Sweetheart and others (love me some bananas from backyard and plantains). Avocado Brodgen and Lula, just fine (hard to establish at first though). Citrus anykind not recommended because of the ACP/ Citrus Greening (research that). Star Fruit a thumbs up. Papayas thumbs up they grow fast. I suggest if you want to go mango go with an aggressive type that will grow quick and establish quick like a Valencia Pride but make sure you know how to prune that thing because it can quickly grow to 10ft a year. My VP was completely bald after a freeze in Feb 2018 and now 9 months later it has fully recovered with tons of new growth and im looking forward for mangos in 2019. Just give it a shot! gives you more reasons to plant and experiment. Good luck neighbor!   

I have heard lychee can take quite a while before fruiting. Is that the case? I had stayed away from bananas originally because I would get a crop all at once and have to eat it within a week or two right? I'm heeding everyone's caution to steer clear of citrus for sure. Appreciate the help. And don't worry, I'll eat everything I grow! No selling for me, at least for the near future.

Brogdon wlll take the cold and they ripened at the same time they were selling Hass at Publix for a buck and quarter each

Jaboticabo will take some cold also and is great looking plant and fruit is great

Mango are less hardy but a must have

One star fruit is good advice but they will freeze back but grow so fast,..

The worst cold comes out of the nothwest so the opposite side of you home is more protected

Have fun




Only issues I have seen with Brogdon are thin skins and lower production. Do people usually end up with a good number in a healthy 3+ yr old tree? Jaboticabo could probably replace muscadine right? Pretty similar taste and less work in about the same fruiting time? My S.O. wasn't too thrilled at first with the appearance of the fruit on the trunk but I might could convince her otherwise! Bummer that my SE corner of the house gets the most shade so I'm not sure it would balance out as a net positive for a tree.


I've taken the opposite approach to mangos, choosing the smallest varieties (tree wise) so I can keep them at 6' high for easy frost protection via covering. I don't recommend a vigorous variety, they do grow fast, but they rarely fruit here. Several people nearby have 20' tall mango trees. They were knocked down to around 3' tall in the really hard freezes in 2009 and have gradually rebounded. We usually get at least one freeze each winter here that will knock back a foot or two of growth off an unprotected tree. While it doesn't kill the tree it often prevents fruiting. Observing my neighbors' unprotected trees, they will fruit maybe every 3 to 4 years due to poorly timed frost. On the other hand, I've had mangos every year for the past 5 - since my trees reached fruiting size I've had fruit every year. So frost protection does make a difference in productivity. Neither approach is "right" what is right for you is an amount of fruit you are happy with for the work involved in caring for the tree.

How much effort is it to protect a tree of 6'? I have to say it's been tough to give up on the idea of having huge trees with more fruit than I could dream of and an awesome canopy, but I can definitely see the merits of smaller trees and will likely try to achieve this. What small varieties have you had luck with?

 

Yook

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Re: Advice for an Orlando Beginner
« Reply #8 on: November 02, 2018, 09:02:08 PM »
How do guava do in the area? I see them listed as zones 8-11.

pineislander

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Re: Advice for an Orlando Beginner
« Reply #9 on: November 03, 2018, 06:49:56 AM »
Along with considering size on a small lot also consider how trees will grow under different amounts of light. Plant a tree close to the house, fence or wall it will grow outwards. If the neighbor has a large tree that casts shade your tree will grow away seeking light. Remember winter sun lies to the south and casts a long shadow to the north of any tall object or tree. In a small space you can squeeze in productivity by planting shade tolerant stuff in spaces other trees will grow away from. Remember as your trees grow taller if not pruned they will close in the canopy, lower branches will die back, fruit will only be in the treetop and trees will accelerate straight up. In other words on a small space you can either plant trees farther apart or prune more carefully to keep things under control.

WGphil

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Re: Advice for an Orlando Beginner
« Reply #10 on: November 03, 2018, 08:28:54 AM »
Guavas, peaches and loquat grow well but fruit flies are major problem so I haven’t grown them in some times as I don’t use pesticides

Just bought a peach and guava and giving another shot as they are tasty

I have 20 mango trees and they are easier than those

You will be better off planting a Fairchild Mango as they are a smaller tree and it will grow witout having to spray for mildews

You can tame it for your yard easily also

Great starter tree until you learn how to grow the more difficult

igrowmangos

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Re: Advice for an Orlando Beginner
« Reply #11 on: November 03, 2018, 08:48:53 AM »
How do you like the taste of the Fairchild Mango? Is it productive for you? Thanks.
“When life gives you lemons, throw it back & say, “I said I wanted a MANGO!”

sunworshiper

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Re: Advice for an Orlando Beginner
« Reply #12 on: November 03, 2018, 08:53:26 AM »
Kudos for putting thought into what will suit you best! It is so hard to choose when you have limited space. Given your space constraints, I would skip banana, they are large plants and demand space. And yes, they do ripen all at once. That is actually true for a lot of kinds of fruit - most individual trees will have ripe fruit for 2-4 weeks of each year. Some trees have better "hang time" ability than others where ripe fruit left on the tree stays good & doesn't spoil.  Here's what I'm growing
Mangos - Manilita, Pickering, Maha Chanok, Fairchild
Emperor Lychee
Low chill peach - would need to consult my records to remember the variety
Gefner Atemoya
Citrus - Meyer Lemon, sugarbelle & ponkan

Emperor Lychee is nice since you can keep it dwarfed, the other varieties of lychee are not easy to size constrain. Lychees do grow slowly, so considering your patience level is important. The tradeoff is that slow growing varieties, once they reach maturity can be easier to maintain because less pruning is required to keep them small. Keeping my trees at 6' involves 1 hard pruning a year after fruit harvest, and for the mangos pinching the tips on new growth to encourage branching - usually 1 or 2 times a year. Keeping a tree small is a lot easier than trying to reduce the size of one that has grown too large.

If you can get power to all you fruit trees via extension cord, that greatly simplifies frost protection. Now that my trees are mature, frost protection is pretty easy, I string up old fashioned c9 christmas lights in November and leave them up until March. In years where we only have light frost (like the last 3), I just turn them on for nights below 35 degrees, and that's it. If a hard freeze (28 or below) is predicted, then I put up full hoop houses. I use PVC pipe to construct a frame around the tree, anchored by rebar chunks driven into the ground. Then I put a plastic cover over the frame (frame has to be big enough that the plastic doesn't touch the tree), and put a heat source (I use car trouble lights) inside the shelter, and then tie down the shelter with guy lines to keep them from blowing off. Setting up shelters for all my trees except the peach (which doesn't need it), takes the better part of a day. So it is a significant amount of work.  Microclimates also matter a lot. If you can plant your frost sensitive trees next to the wall of your house (south wall is best) or under the canopy of a large tree like an oak, you can get several extra degrees of frost shelter from those little microclimates. One thing that could be fun and help you feel less antsy over the winter is to look for a sale on frost sensitive landscaping plants - oyster plants or crotons or the like. Buy a few and plant them now anyplace you think you might want to put a frost sensitive tree next spring. Give them no frost protection at all and see which are not killed off by frost over the winter. If some get killed by frost and others don't, the ones that don't show you where your microclimates are. On my property, I use oyster plants as borders in my planting beds, and it is really interesting to see which are killled by frost and which are not, the pattern on my property is consistent year to year and coorelates to which trees need most protection during cold.

If you really want a large canopied exotic, you could consider a macadamia. I'm not growing them because they can't be kept small. But my understanding is that on hard freeze years they will get knocked back a bit, but otherwise, they do fine with light frost and they are large and pretty evergreen trees.

Peach can also be larger, but I consider it the least rewarding tree and if you are space constrained I wouldn't plant one. It takes a lot of pruning, fertilizing & disease maintenance for low payoff. The fruit is incredible (which is why I keep it), but I've had only 2 good crops in 10 years. It sets fruit every year, we do get enough cold for that. Trouble is, only the years that have really cold winters (hard freezes) knock back the fruit fly population enough to allow the fruit to ripen. For last 3 years running, the entire crop has been ruined by fruit flies attacking the fruit just before they ripen. I've tried lots of ways to mitigate - none that I've found work. But I keep it because on years when my tropicals do take a hit from frost and are not going to fruit, then I will have peaches to look forward to. 

WGphil

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Re: Advice for an Orlando Beginner
« Reply #13 on: November 03, 2018, 09:27:51 AM »


The Fairchild was my first and will always remain one of my favorites for taste

Besides the Brogdon I also have lula, wurtz and day but they are new plantings

I have had heavy crops on the Brogdon and it’s about thirty ft tall with a more upright growth pattern

IndigoEmu

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Re: Advice for an Orlando Beginner
« Reply #14 on: November 03, 2018, 10:01:56 AM »
How do guava do in the area? I see them listed as zones 8-11.

I got 70 pounds of guava off a three year old tree last year. Fruit flies were definitely a problem, I lost all the fruit in year 2 to them. This time I protected the fruit using mesh bags; fairly easy since guavas hang with some clearance from the tree once they get a little size. I still have a lot of jelly leftover! I was away for the freeze early this year and the tree died to the ground.

sunworshiper

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Re: Advice for an Orlando Beginner
« Reply #15 on: November 03, 2018, 10:10:21 PM »
What kind of mesh bags do you use that protect from fruit flies indigo emu? Would it work for peaches do you think?

astronics1

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Re: Advice for an Orlando Beginner
« Reply #16 on: November 04, 2018, 12:47:07 AM »






sunworshiper

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Re: Advice for an Orlando Beginner
« Reply #17 on: November 04, 2018, 08:11:33 PM »
Those mesh bags look great! Where did you get them and what brand or mesh size are they?

edzone9

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Re: Advice for an Orlando Beginner
« Reply #18 on: November 04, 2018, 08:35:11 PM »
Go got it Push the Zone!
Zone 10

astronics1

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Re: Advice for an Orlando Beginner
« Reply #19 on: November 04, 2018, 08:48:37 PM »
Garden Plant Fruit Protect on eBay all different sizes . I bough few different sizes some of my Atemoya fruit is big may be over 3 lb. 

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Re: Advice for an Orlando Beginner
« Reply #20 on: November 06, 2018, 08:42:41 PM »
Thanks!

Yook

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Re: Advice for an Orlando Beginner
« Reply #21 on: November 08, 2018, 12:48:10 PM »
@vernmented

What’s the best way to go about building mounds for trees? I had heard it best not to amend soil too much for trees so they’ll spread roots further but it sounds like mound theory proposes the opposite. My backyard is up against a pond, should I expect this will make my soil soggy?


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Re: Advice for an Orlando Beginner
« Reply #22 on: November 09, 2018, 11:53:18 AM »
If you got a pond,  bananas work along with jaboticabo

The drawrf types like the nam wah  work best in small yards

Lemons and limes do well. Key lime come true from seed so you can do it yourself

Meyer lemon is a cross with orange and great fresh or cooking

For true lemon taste I recommend the  Bearss a lemon originating in Florida

Tropical cherries do well also


Surinam cherry
Barbados cherry
Grumachama
Cherry if the Rio Grand
Pitomba
Pitangatuba

There is a large list of tasty plants you can grow here

Yook

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Re: Advice for an Orlando Beginner
« Reply #23 on: November 09, 2018, 02:10:27 PM »
Thanks Phil. Can you explain further what the pond does to my microclimate or soil?

Which of those cherries would you call the most forgiving for our region? Are any of them young bearers?

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Re: Advice for an Orlando Beginner
« Reply #24 on: November 09, 2018, 04:34:40 PM »
Usually land slopes toward a pond giving plants more rain water

The water table is high around ponds so s good place for your thirsty plants
 
Zill Dark Surinam
Cherry of rio grand
Barbados cherry

Are the easiest to grow with best flavor