Fruit ID - update, identified as Helicostylis pedunculata

[Colombo973]

Hi everybody,
Is someone here can help me to identify this fruit ?
I found it on the ground in primary forest, it was not easy to see from which tree it come but i finally succeeded to take pictures of hanging fruits and the leaves.
I'm thinking about an annonaceae but not sure.
The fruits i've collected was over ripe so i didn't try to taste them (lot of worms inside too) but there is a good pulp ratio and smell is pretty interesting.
Any advice is welcome !

[Tropicaliste]

Rollinia emarginata?

[FlyingFoxFruits]

no it looks like a close relative of osage orange..it could be in the same genus, Maclura...but definitely is Moraceae.

[HIfarm]

maybe Batocarpus sp?  Never seen one (fruit) so this is just a wild guess after Adam's Moraceae speculation ...

John

[fruitlovers]

If you post a close up photo of the seed can tell if it is annonaceae or something else.

[stuartdaly88]

Look of the fruit reminds me of a mulberry alot!

[micah]

Looks yummy
I'm guessing too
Helicostylis tomentosa, Helicostylis ?
If its right do I get seed? As my prize?

[FlyingFoxFruits]

If you post a close up photo of the seed can tell if it is annonaceae or something else.

it's not annonaceae, it's definitely moraceae

[Colombo973]

If you post a close up photo of the seed can tell if it is annonaceae or something else.

Here a seeds close up :



The seed shape and low number in fruits ( 3 to 6) does not tend in favor of annonaceae.
Micah seems to have hit good, as Helicostylis tomentosa seem very close of the fruit i've found.
I will try to find not worms full filled fruits and taste it. I hope to stay alive after 

[Viking Guy]

It looks like an over ripe Myrianthus arboreus to me.  Probably a giant yellow that matured too quickly.

[FlyingFoxFruits]

Looks yummy
I'm guessing too
Helicostylis tomentosa, Helicostylis ?
If its right do I get seed? As my prize?

this is the closest species I've seen so far.
http://postimg.cc/image/jjz0xcoj5/

[Viking Guy]

Looks yummy
I'm guessing too
Helicostylis tomentosa, Helicostylis ?
If its right do I get seed? As my prize?

this is the closest species I've seen so far.
http://postimg.cc/image/jjz0xcoj5/

Seeds don't look right for an HT

[Colombo973]

Looks yummy
I'm guessing too
Helicostylis tomentosa, Helicostylis ?
If its right do I get seed? As my prize?

this is the closest species I've seen so far.
http://postimg.cc/image/jjz0xcoj5/

Seeds don't look right for an HT

I found a pic of Helicostylis tomentosa seeds, it look really similar :

http://fm2.fieldmuseum.org/plantguides/view.asp?chkbox=22242

It looks like an over ripe Myrianthus arboreus to me.  Probably a giant yellow that matured too quickly.

Myrianthus is not present wild in the Guianas and from the seeds i've saw, they are very close to Pourouma cecropiifolia in appearance. It's not the case for this fruit.

Probability is high for an Helicostylis. I've read that H. tomentosa fruits are delicious http://tropical.theferns.info/viewtropical.php?id=Helicostylis+tomentosa
I can't wait to climb the tree to taste fresh fruits !

[Viking Guy]

That is not it--to me anyhow.  Those seeds still don't look similar.  They should have a 360 depression along the sides which bubbles and swells once soaked.

I'm sticking with my original assumption.

Also, HT fruit doesn't have stems as they bud right off the bark, nor is the fruit texture the same.  The MA fruit has stems just like the one in the OP photo.

Could be a similar variety, and even though it may or may not be a native variety doesn't mean it couldn't have been introduced.

[stuartdaly88]

If it is Helicostylis tomentosa I will literally sell my car to get some seeds. I don't think I have ever wanted a plant so badly in all my life.
Reportedly Delicious fruit and halcinogenic sap possibly canabanoids how outrageously interesting!!!!!! I collect fruiting plants and entheogens(not for use just for ethnobotanical interest mostly) so it's two for one special

[Colombo973]

That is not it--to me anyhow.  Those seeds still don't look similar.  They should have a 360 depression along the sides which bubbles and swells once soaked.

I'm sticking with my original assumption.

Also, HT fruit doesn't have stems as they bud right off the bark, nor is the fruit texture the same.  The MA fruit has stems just like the one in the OP photo.

Could be a similar variety, and even though it may or may not be a native variety doesn't mean it couldn't have been introduced.

You are right about fruit stem ! HT doesn't have it, so, it can not be HT.
But i think it can not be MA too, because MA have digitately compound leaves like others Cecropiaceae. The tree found have alternate leaves that are far away from MA ones. In my opinion, this must exclude a MA variety.

[Viking Guy]

Ok, I finally stopped trying to squint at my cellphone at this.  I know my Moraceaes.  So I am going to present what I think it is after zooming in on the big screen.

We are right in that we were all wrong.  lol

If you give me 15 minutes, I will also find the variety.  I need to review some of my notes from my travels.

Update:  This fruit is a Brosimum gaudichaudii trécul. Mama-cadela specifically.  It is a small breadnut variety.

[FlyingFoxFruits]

doesn't look like mama cadela...the habitat it grows in is unique, (the cerrado) which is like a savanna...not a primary forest, like the place the fruit in question was discovered.

Mama cadela fruits don't have segments as much...they look smoother (almost how a custard apple does, compared to a sugar apple)

the plant in question is definitely Moraceae...just hard to say which one...

Ok, I finally stopped trying to squint at my cellphone at this.  I know my Moraceaes.  So I am going to present what I think it is after zooming in on the big screen.

We are right in that we were all wrong.  lol

If you give me 15 minutes, I will also find the variety.  I need to review some of my notes from my travels.

Update:  This fruit is a Brosimum gaudichaudii trécul. Mama-cadela specifically.  It is a small breadnut variety.

[Viking Guy]

Any chance there is a photo of the whole tree?

Adam, look up the bgt variety specifically--view it closely.  Branching, leaf count (9e lats), bark, fruit, size/color/texture, seed shape/count, locality, etc are accurate to the displayed photos of the OP.

Only thing that'd help further clarify would be a full tree shot, but even the branch in one of his photos shows the true 9e lats.  I'm convinced. 

I want one!

Haha

[Tropicaliste]

Stuart: Sell your car and buy some from Vitor? Lol

[Colombo973]

Any chance there is a photo of the whole tree?

Adam, look up the bgt variety specifically--view it closely.  Branching, leaf count (9e lats), bark, fruit, size/color/texture, seed shape/count, locality, etc are accurate to the displayed photos of the OP.

Only thing that'd help further clarify would be a full tree shot, but even the branch in one of his photos shows the true 9e lats.  I'm convinced. 

I want one!

Haha

Here is a photo of the trunk :



And branchs holding fruits :



I have to agree with Adam, it doesn't look mama cadela. Get a look here : http://www.bananasraras.org/frutasrarasingles/brosimum.htm
Leaves, fruits, seeds are not the same.
Damn, i didn't expected that this fruit will be so hard to identify.

[stuartdaly88]

Stuart: Sell your car and buy some from Vitor? Lol

I just saw them now! and pmed him for a few. With the dollar as high as it is I might just get one seed for my car lol

[BMc]

If I just saw the fruit I'd be sure it was Maclura cochinchinensis, but on seeing the images of the tree, I'm not as sure. I'm used to it as a thorny scrambler, but I think the asian forms could also include thornless trees?

[Colombo973]

Hi everybody,

Finally, i 've collected a branch from the tree and i get advice from a botanical expert. We have checked from the IRD herbarium collection in Cayenne and fruit/leaves could come from Helicostylis pedunculata. Probability is near to 90%.
The only thing that disturb me is the fruit size. H. pedunculata should have fruit size up to 1 cm in diameter, and the ones i've collected are more bigger (all were 2 to 4 cm wide).
I managed to get ripe fruits with my shotgun, and i tasted them : They are delicious, hard to describe but pulp is sweet and the very thin skin is slightly acid. There are only 3 to 4 seeds in one fruit so there is a good amount of stuff to eat.
Unfortunately, there are a lot of worms in the fruits, far more than in a guava.
I'm really happy to have found this specie.
Many thanks for those who helped for this fruit identification.

[joaave]

Maclura cochinchinensis

[Coconut]

Hi everybody,

Finally, i 've collected a branch from the tree and i get advice from a botanical expert. We have checked from the IRD herbarium collection in Cayenne and fruit/leaves could come from Helicostylis pedunculata. Probability is near to 90%.
The only thing that disturb me is the fruit size. H. pedunculata should have fruit size up to 1 cm in diameter, and the ones i've collected are more bigger (all were 2 to 4 cm wide).
I managed to get ripe fruits with my shotgun, and i tasted them : They are delicious, hard to describe but pulp is sweet and the very thin skin is slightly acid. There are only 3 to 4 seeds in one fruit so there is a good amount of stuff to eat.
Unfortunately, there are a lot of worms in the fruits, far more than in a guava.
I'm really happy to have found this specie.
Many thanks for those who helped for this fruit identification.

So when can we get to poll and name your new discovery H. Pendunculata Richard?  My Platonia Insignis one has survived, the other froze to death; thankyou for the bacuri but they slow grower compare to Luc's garcinia. The surviving Bacuri putting out some new leaves finally!👍🏻Fruit hunting with a shotgun now that is something I can relate too but trying to get rid of those sashimi grade fruit worm caviars with buckshot that is excessive; I would add a little wasabi & pop in my mouth with little complaints!😋😜😝


Keep up the fruit safari; we need another Luc in the Guyana zone to tease our explorer craving!👀

[stuartdaly88]

Hi everybody,

Finally, i 've collected a branch from the tree and i get advice from a botanical expert. We have checked from the IRD herbarium collection in Cayenne and fruit/leaves could come from Helicostylis pedunculata. Probability is near to 90%.
The only thing that disturb me is the fruit size. H. pedunculata should have fruit size up to 1 cm in diameter, and the ones i've collected are more bigger (all were 2 to 4 cm wide).
I managed to get ripe fruits with my shotgun, and i tasted them : They are delicious, hard to describe but pulp is sweet and the very thin skin is slightly acid. There are only 3 to 4 seeds in one fruit so there is a good amount of stuff to eat.
Unfortunately, there are a lot of worms in the fruits, far more than in a guava.
I'm really happy to have found this specie.
Many thanks for those who helped for this fruit identification.

Brilliant investigation work! I'm so glad this thread introduced me to a whole new genus which is always a thrill beyond compare he he
That fruit and tree is lovely I hope you will be planting some seeds and if you are selling or trading I'm keen as heck and first in line I hope
I ordered some Helicostylis tomentosa from vitor a week or so back solely because of this thread and would be excited to have a cousin to it or even a non relation if the 10% chance of error turns out corrects
Please keep your eyes in the trees finds like these are beyond special!

[Colombo973]

So when can we get to poll and name your new discovery H. Pendunculata Richard?  My Platonia Insignis one has survived, the other froze to death; thankyou for the bacuri but they slow grower compare to Luc's garcinia. The surviving Bacuri putting out some new leaves finally!👍🏻Fruit hunting with a shotgun now that is something I can relate too but trying to get rid of those sashimi grade fruit worm caviars with buckshot that is excessive; I would add a little wasabi & pop in my mouth with little complaints!😋😜😝


Keep up the fruit safari; we need another Luc in the Guyana zone to tease our explorer craving!👀

Glad to heard that at least one Bacuri have survived. I think it's a real challenge to grow this specie outside of an equatorial climate. Also here they grow very slowly, it can take 3 years to reach one meter high.
The safari will go on, i have more time now for seeking the yummy fruits of the Guianas.

Brilliant investigation work! I'm so glad this thread introduced me to a whole new genus which is always a thrill beyond compare he he
That fruit and tree is lovely I hope you will be planting some seeds and if you are selling or trading I'm keen as heck and first in line I hope
I ordered some Helicostylis tomentosa from vitor a week or so back solely because of this thread and would be excited to have a cousin to it or even a non relation if the 10% chance of error turns out corrects
Please keep your eyes in the trees finds like these are beyond special!

I happy too that this fruit introduced me to the Helicostylis. It's a very interesting genus.
It would be funny to try the hallucinogenic properties of the sap.
Did you sold your car ? i have few seeds.
You can PM me if you want to trade.

[stuartdaly88]

So when can we get to poll and name your new discovery H. Pendunculata Richard?  My Platonia Insignis one has survived, the other froze to death; thankyou for the bacuri but they slow grower compare to Luc's garcinia. The surviving Bacuri putting out some new leaves finally!👍🏻Fruit hunting with a shotgun now that is something I can relate too but trying to get rid of those sashimi grade fruit worm caviars with buckshot that is excessive; I would add a little wasabi & pop in my mouth with little complaints!😋😜😝


Keep up the fruit safari; we need another Luc in the Guyana zone to tease our explorer craving!👀

No one wants my car:(
I just went on a fast for a week:p

Pm Sent:D

Glad to heard that at least one Bacuri have survived. I think it's a real challenge to grow this specie outside of an equatorial climate. Also here they grow very slowly, it can take 3 years to reach one meter high.
The safari will go on, i have more time now for seeking the yummy fruits of the Guianas.

Brilliant investigation work! I'm so glad this thread introduced me to a whole new genus which is always a thrill beyond compare he he
That fruit and tree is lovely I hope you will be planting some seeds and if you are selling or trading I'm keen as heck and first in line I hope
I ordered some Helicostylis tomentosa from vitor a week or so back solely because of this thread and would be excited to have a cousin to it or even a non relation if the 10% chance of error turns out corrects
Please keep your eyes in the trees finds like these are beyond special!

I happy too that this fruit introduced me to the Helicostylis. It's a very interesting genus.
It would be funny to try the hallucinogenic properties of the sap.
Did you sold your car ? i have few seeds.
You can PM me if you want to trade.

[stuartdaly88]

So when can we get to poll and name your new discovery H. Pendunculata Richard?  My Platonia Insignis one has survived, the other froze to death; thankyou for the bacuri but they slow grower compare to Luc's garcinia. The surviving Bacuri putting out some new leaves finally!👍🏻Fruit hunting with a shotgun now that is something I can relate too but trying to get rid of those sashimi grade fruit worm caviars with buckshot that is excessive; I would add a little wasabi & pop in my mouth with little complaints!😋😜😝


Keep up the fruit safari; we need another Luc in the Guyana zone to tease our explorer craving!👀

Glad to heard that at least one Bacuri have survived. I think it's a real challenge to grow this specie outside of an equatorial climate. Also here they grow very slowly, it can take 3 years to reach one meter high.
The safari will go on, i have more time now for seeking the yummy fruits of the Guianas.

Brilliant investigation work! I'm so glad this thread introduced me to a whole new genus which is always a thrill beyond compare he he
That fruit and tree is lovely I hope you will be planting some seeds and if you are selling or trading I'm keen as heck and first in line I hope
I ordered some Helicostylis tomentosa from vitor a week or so back solely because of this thread and would be excited to have a cousin to it or even a non relation if the 10% chance of error turns out corrects
Please keep your eyes in the trees finds like these are beyond special!

I happy too that this fruit introduced me to the Helicostylis. It's a very interesting genus.
It would be funny to try the hallucinogenic properties of the sap.
Did you sold your car ? i have few seeds.
You can PM me if you want to trade.

Oh I read it might have been a mistake due to common names and sap may just be poison lol so watch out!
Im still very interested in this Genus though

[Viking Guy]

Interesting.  Having the actual specimen is definitely more accurate than photo swags.  Although, I would think it too large to be that variety of Helic.  Maybe you have found an oddity or rarer variety?  Congrats either way, but moreso if so. 

[KarenRei]

Finally, i 've collected a branch from the tree and i get advice from a botanical expert.

Did you put your branch in water to try to root it, or are you going to try to grow one from seed? You could always bag the fruit to prevent infestation; good to know that it's tasty!

Hmm, interesting, apparently one of the properties of this tribe of Moraceae (Castilleae) is that they have "self-pruning branches". I wonder if that means that it sheds its lower branches like a pine?