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Temperate Fruit & Orchards => Temperate Fruit Discussion => Topic started by: SoCal2warm on October 21, 2016, 06:19:26 PM

Title: Karp's Sweet Quince, and other Quince for eating raw
Post by: SoCal2warm on October 21, 2016, 06:19:26 PM
Is anyone here growing 'Karp's Sweet' Quince? (It's supposedly the best variety for eating raw, but only when grown in warm climates like Southern California)

I have a tree but it has not produced fruits yet. And I haven't heard any updates from anyone else about this variety for several years.
Anyone growing it and can comment on the fruit?


By the way, if you're in a more northern climate, the best varieties are probably Krimskaya and Aromatnaya, the latter of which is a bit softer but not as good flavor.

Quince has an amazing aroma, for those of you who may not know, and the flavor of the raw fruit is unique. Of course, quince is usually dense, spongy, and most often too astringent to eat raw. It's important to point out though that some varieties are better than others in this regard, and the level of ripeness which the fruit attains can make a big difference. Trying to eat raw quince is not for everyone, but supposedly the variety Karp's Sweet could change all that. In Latin American countries quince is typically sliced very thin and served with a chili vinegar sauce with crushed peanuts. I also think the quinces grown in Latin American countries tend to be less astringent than the traditional normal American varieties, but that could just be the warmer climate. It's hard to know since quince in Latin America are very often heirloom varieties grown from seed.
Title: Re: Karp's Sweet Quince, and other Quince for eating raw
Post by: Solko on October 23, 2016, 02:21:05 PM
I don't grow any quince myself, but I have bought and eaten the ones you can eat raw on the market and I think they are good. but I like a lot of fruit  ;D

This year I have been cooking all quinces I bought into jelly, 'membrillo' and 'applebutter', which is my favorite so far for this fruit. So I am actually more inclined to look for the ones you can cook... I have never tried the thin slices with chili, but I'll definitely do that...

The quince jelly is so flavorful, though, that I would grow apples and pears for eating out of hand, and quinces for making jellies.
Title: Re: Karp's Sweet Quince, and other Quince for eating raw
Post by: SoCal2warm on October 24, 2016, 01:14:51 PM
While France is famed for its quince, I would not think you would find the quince that is suitable for eating raw there. From what I've heard, the softest least astringent varieties come from the area around the Black Sea (in Russia, and maybe to a lesser extent Turkey) and in Latin America (Mexico, Argentina, Uruguay, Venezuela, Peru). Climate also makes a big difference, quince ripens most fully in warm climates with long summer heat, that's when the quince will become its softest, most aromatic, least astringent, and sweetest. The south of France is certainly not a bad place to grow quince, but it's not as good as somewhere like Mexico.

Probably the best one out of the ordinary varieties for trying to eat raw, and the one I suspect you have eaten, is "Orange" quince. While it's not terrible for eating raw, it's not as palatable as Aromatnaya (Russian variety from the Black Sea). Karp's Sweet (which originated from the Majes valley in Peru) is supposed to be on a whole different level, very close to the level of a Granny Smith apple, when it's at its best (grown somewhere like Southern California or Mexico). 
Title: Re: Karp's Sweet Quince, and other Quince for eating raw
Post by: Solko on October 26, 2016, 05:01:36 AM
The idea of eating quince raw is new to the French, yes. The quinces from Serbia and around the Black Sea are supposed to be edible raw, but there is no verdict yet on their taste if they are grown in this region. The two varieties I know of that some people are growing in France are Miagkoplodnaja Wolgogradskaja and Aromatnaya, with the first one reportedly much better than the last...
Title: Re: Karp's Sweet Quince, and other Quince for eating raw
Post by: Caesar on October 26, 2016, 11:42:32 PM
What's the chill hour requirement? Can it be grown in a chill-free zone? I know that's the case with low-chill apples, pears and stonefruit, with an up to 200 hour requirement (the lower the better), but I'm not sure about Quince.
Title: Re: Karp's Sweet Quince, and other Quince for eating raw
Post by: SoCal2warm on October 27, 2016, 02:36:31 AM
What's the chill hour requirement? Can it be grown in a chill-free zone? I know that's the case with low-chill apples, pears and stonefruit, with an up to 200 hour requirement (the lower the better), but I'm not sure about Quince.
I believe quince can be grown in zone 10, although it's not as productive. It prefers zone 9. However, the quince in Mexico may be in an altogether different category, as it has adapted to some extent to local climatic conditions over the course of many generations of being grown there (very often being propagated by seed). Something peculiarly interesting, unlike other quince varieties, 'Karp's Sweet' does not appear to behave deciduously here, not losing its leaves in the winter.

Some people have noted that Karp's Sweet does not appear to be as productive, in terms of fruit, as other varieties, but that could just be because it is a hardier variety, so it could take more years until it becomes more productive. Fruit trees whose growth is stunted (e.g. by rootstock) tend to be more precocious, producing fruit at an earlier age. (of course the growth being stunted too much isn't a good thing either) The point is that Karp's Sweet appears to have adapted to the semi-tropical climate where its lineage existed for many generations, so maybe, I would speculate, there is less of a need for it to go through a cycle of dormancy in order for it to be productive. This would likely be true for many other Latin American quinces as well, though I do not have any experience with them.

One thing I will say is that quince stands up better to heat and dry conditions than apple, so it is particularly suitable to Southern California in that sense. A quince tree can also be fairly drought tolerant after it has had time to become established.

Conversely, quince is very prone to disease in climates with high heat combined with high humidity. All this is not surprising when you consider the part of the world where quince comes from. Quince can be grown as far north as Maine or Nova Scotia however.
Title: Re: Karp's Sweet Quince, and other Quince for eating raw
Post by: BrianL on October 27, 2016, 07:13:23 PM
I've had fruit set issues here with Karp's Sweet, but my Pineapple does get soft enough to eat fresh if you leae it on the tree.
Title: Re: Karp's Sweet Quince, and other Quince for eating raw
Post by: SoCal2warm on April 08, 2017, 08:08:57 PM
Here's my Karp's Sweet quince tree:

(https://s16.postimg.cc/vqrzf6u6p/karps1.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/vqrzf6u6p/)

(https://s16.postimg.cc/fd4otawgx/karps2.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/fd4otawgx/)

There are several blossoms on it. No fruit yet.

Apparently, at least for me in climate zone 10, Karp's Sweet does behave deciduously, but not absolutely entirely since there were 3 green leaves (albeit a little brown) left on it throughout the winter.
Title: Re: Karp's Sweet Quince, and other Quince for eating raw
Post by: SoCal2warm on May 16, 2017, 05:58:16 PM
From the research I've been reading, it seems like 'Crimea' and 'Kuganskaya' may be good varieties for eating raw. One source commented that Kuganskaya appeared to be inferior to Aromatnaya in every way (fruit size, aroma of the fruit, disease resistance) so they pulled the tree out of the ground. But another source I read commented that, while Aromatnaya was good for fresh eating, it didn't have as much flavor as Kuganskaya. It might be a personal preference thing, or maybe they should have waited longer to let their tree mature to see if the fruit quality improved. I'm sure these different Russian varieties are all very similar but there may be subtle good things to these particular cultivars.

So I got these two and put them in the ground. (They are at a different location, zone 8a. That should make things interesting, I can compare how much of an effect chill hours have on productivity.)
Will let you know after they produce fruit.

From the descriptions they sound very mild, sweeter and a bit softer than regular quince, and non-astringent. But I haven't actually got to personally taste them yet.
Title: Re: Karp's Sweet Quince, and other Quince for eating raw
Post by: SoCal2warm on May 17, 2017, 03:30:52 PM
Here's a picture that appeared in the LA Times of Peruvian Apple Quince taken at the Santa Monica farmer's market:


(https://s28.postimg.cc/80cn5wugp/valdivia-apple-quince.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/80cn5wugp/)


The particular fruit being sold at the stand was grown by Weiser Family Farms in Tehachapi, but this variety came from Edgar Valdivia, who was the first to grow it in the U.S. This same variety is also sometimes referred to as "Karp's Sweet", in no small part because Karp was the one who wrote the article and took this picture.

http://www.latimes.com/food/dailydish/lat-la-karp-1005-la0011679655-20121017-photo.html (http://www.latimes.com/food/dailydish/lat-la-karp-1005-la0011679655-20121017-photo.html)
Title: Re: Karp's Sweet Quince, and other Quince for eating raw
Post by: SoCal2warm on May 19, 2017, 02:55:09 PM
Karp's Sweet

(https://s10.postimg.cc/d9qmy0wzp/IMG_20170519_114729.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/d9qmy0wzp/)
Title: Re: Karp's Sweet Quince, and other Quince for eating raw
Post by: SoCal2warm on May 24, 2017, 06:06:54 PM
Crimea (I believe this is the same cultivar as 'Krimskaya')

(https://s8.postimg.cc/uldsqfsq9/IMG_20170524_121337.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/uldsqfsq9/) (https://s21.postimg.cc/wnw0o1yw3/IMG_20170524_121326.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/wnw0o1yw3/)


Kuganskaya

(https://s10.postimg.cc/pt0tn8o85/IMG_20170524_121419.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/pt0tn8o85/) (https://s1.postimg.cc/jwj3trc6j/IMG_20170524_121446.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/jwj3trc6j/)
Title: Re: Karp's Sweet Quince, and other Quince for eating raw
Post by: SoCal2warm on April 25, 2018, 06:52:01 PM
Kuganskaya blooming

(https://s18.postimg.cc/peijfbf45/20180425_154129.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/peijfbf45/)

I may be completely wrong about this, but I believe the fragrange of the blossoms smells a little different from those of Orange quince. It smells just a little bit in the direction of how pear blossoms smell (which don't really smell the best but it's a distinctive smell). This is complete conjecture here but this observation would support a theory that some of these Russian quinces may have been brought about through interspecies hybridization (maybe not the immediate prior generation but a few generations back).
Title: Re: Karp's Sweet Quince, and other Quince for eating raw
Post by: SoCal2warm on August 13, 2018, 11:21:14 AM
Fruits forming on Crimea

(https://s22.postimg.cc/qozlydhul/20180813_081038.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/qozlydhul/)

Kuganskaya has fruits too.

(https://s22.postimg.cc/67enmqswd/20180813_081137.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/67enmqswd/)
Title: Re: Karp's Sweet Quince, and other Quince for eating raw
Post by: SoCal2warm on September 26, 2018, 09:31:19 PM
Crimea fruit
(https://i.postimg.cc/mPWjSKc0/20180926_160137.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/mPWjSKc0)

Before cutting it open the outside has a faint fragrance of pear and vanilla. Aftering cutting it open there's an apple aroma. The texture inside of this quince is like a Granny Smith apple (that's very tender for an uncooked quince fruit). Just in terms of texture, I had absolutely no problem eating a slice of this quince. It didn't have to be thin sliced. There was some slight to moderate level of astringency though. Slightly less than half as astringent as a regular quince. I would say that overall, this rises to a level close to edibility raw.

After being cooked, it wasn't really all that amazing. Almost kind of potato-like.
It didn't turn pink during cooking at all, probably because of the lower level of tannins in this variety. Has a slightly lemon-like aspect to the flavor.


Kuganskaya fruit
(https://i.postimg.cc/0KmmM2Cr/20180926_160101.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/0KmmM2Cr)

I tasted an unripe Kuganskaya (still mostly green). This has surprisingly tender texture. If Crimea was like an underripe Granny Smith Apple, Kuganskaya is like a ripe Granny Smith that you would find in a supermarket.
The texture is not just tender it's also very smooth, almost "buttery". No fibrousness. If someone handed a slice of this to me and I closed my eyes, I almost wouldn't know it was a quince. Unfortunately it does have some astringency like a Hachiya persimmon.
I give this a 10 out of 10 for texture.

Before cutting open, the fruit exuded a slight caramel pear fragrance with vanilla. Kuganskaya definitely leans closer in the direction of pear flavor than Crimea. The cut fruits almost had a "cooling" pear smell to them (something I did not notice in cut Crimea fruit), although it was kind of subtle.
Title: Re: Karp's Sweet Quince, and other Quince for eating raw
Post by: SoCal2warm on October 02, 2018, 01:25:02 PM
Kuganskaya

(https://i.postimg.cc/QKT51JJ2/20181002_102126.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/QKT51JJ2)


The Crimea fruits on the tree are beginning to develop a more quince-like fragrance now.
Title: Re: Karp's Sweet Quince, and other Quince for eating raw
Post by: SoCal2warm on October 02, 2018, 01:43:24 PM
Crimea fruit

(https://i.postimg.cc/jD3M6tVP/20181002_103742.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/jD3M6tVP)

(https://i.postimg.cc/BXSWMSzV/20181002_103924.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/BXSWMSzV)

Texture not very much dissimilar to a Granny Smith apple.
Slightly astringent, but better than a bad Hachiya persimmon.
Title: Re: Karp's Sweet Quince, and other Quince for eating raw
Post by: SoCal2warm on October 02, 2018, 01:58:07 PM
Would I say these two are "edible"?
Well, sort of. Maybe on the border between "semi-edible" and "edible", definitely edible in a survival situation.
They're interesting, and quince has kind of an intriguing flavor, and I might feel like snacking on a little bit, but I don't think I'd feel inclined to eat a whole fruit in one sitting. Maybe about a fourth to a third of the fruit makes me feel like I've had enough (although the size is a little bigger than an apple).
Title: Re: Karp's Sweet Quince, and other Quince for eating raw
Post by: SoCal2warm on October 09, 2018, 04:03:02 PM
Kuganskaya, ripening up more now:
(https://i.postimg.cc/V0zxxgZN/20181009_124603.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/V0zxxgZN)


I bought a quince at the regular market and did a comparison between the Crimea and the market quince. It really made me realize how edible these special quinces were by comparison. For the market-bought quince, it was like biting into something very dense, and the first bite was like swallowing sawdust. For the Crimea, it was only a tad bit dry, and that was really more after the second slice. I'm not really sure you'd even notice any astringency if you only had one slice and it was thinly cut. The Crimea, you really have to eat two or three thick-cut slices before it really starts becoming unbearably astringent. The Crimea is absolutely edible in comparison.

I'm going to say the texture/flavor of Crimea leans a little more towards apple, and the texture/flavor of Kuganskaya leans a little more towards pear.

Keep in mind this is in the Pacific Northwest, and most of the ripening period is going into the cool season. I'm sure they'd probably ripen better somewhere much further South.
Title: Re: Karp's Sweet Quince, and other Quince for eating raw
Post by: SoCal2warm on October 19, 2018, 08:44:50 PM
Kuganskaya fruit
(https://i.postimg.cc/Th4YLwDq/20181019-173315.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Th4YLwDq)(https://i.postimg.cc/cvqxhbTv/20181019-173444.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/cvqxhbTv)
Now that it is more ripe, I can eat it (almost) just like an apple.
It is more acidic though.

But I will point out it's substantially less astringent than a Hachiya persimmon. In the two thick-cut slices I just tried I almost didn't notice any astringency at all! (Though I'm sure it might have started to become more noticeable if I had more)

Also to mention, the exterior of the fruit began developing a rich apple fragrance (not strong but slightly stronger than an heirloom apple from a tree).
Title: Re: Karp's Sweet Quince, and other Quince for eating raw
Post by: SoCal2warm on December 23, 2018, 03:25:49 PM
Passe Crassane tree
(https://i.postimg.cc/k2vjy7Q7/20181223-121725.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/k2vjy7Q7)

Karp's Sweet (with lychee tree in background)
(https://i.postimg.cc/ppDk2P1K/20181223-121807.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/ppDk2P1K)(https://i.postimg.cc/YG5fHP6X/20181223-121838.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/YG5fHP6X)
Title: Re: Karp's Sweet Quince, and other Quince for eating raw
Post by: lavender87 on December 31, 2018, 09:16:44 AM
SoCal2Warm, nice quince trees and fruits. I heard quince is highly susceptible to fire blight if grown in the north America.

 I would like to try on quince as well. Do you have seeds or seedlings for sale? Though I know that they might not grow true from seeds. It is hard to find a good taste quince from stores in Georgia, most have bitter taste.
Title: Re: Karp's Sweet Quince, and other Quince for eating raw
Post by: SoCal2warm on January 17, 2019, 12:39:39 AM
I heard quince is highly susceptible to fire blight if grown in the north America.
If grown in the Southeast. They tend not to do well with heat combined with humidity.

On the other hand, they'll grow just fine in the central valley of California, and can even be grown all the way up to Maine.

You can grow them where you live but be prepared to spray them a lot for disease.
Some people in the South can be afraid to plant them because they can be disease magnets if you have any pears nearby.
Title: Re: Karp's Sweet Quince, and other Quince for eating raw
Post by: Nicole on February 10, 2019, 09:49:02 PM
I'm expecting for my Karp's sweet from Raintree nursery this month. Very exited about this variety and hope it will be true to the variety. My friend recommended it as one of the best for eating raw. Few days ago I also received another young tree of "Bereczki" not really well known here, but famous Hungarian variety of quince. Very large fruits with strong aromatic smell. f Not sure if it is good to eat raw, I don't really care as I still like better when it cooked.

here is my Bereczki, and pictures of this variety when mature, isn't it adorable??!!

(https://i.postimg.cc/hQrdMtMt/viber-image-2019-02-10-18-28-31.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/hQrdMtMt)

(https://i.postimg.cc/14cCb0jf/viber-image-2019-02-10-18-28-31a.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/14cCb0jf)

(https://i.postimg.cc/XrhQ9spD/2015-10-18-21-55-57-5695.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/XrhQ9spD)

(https://i.postimg.cc/jnsXR9FC/Gutui-Bereczky-3.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/jnsXR9FC)

(https://i.postimg.cc/HVk2KqMh/image-s-644x461.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/HVk2KqMh)
Title: Re: Karp's Sweet Quince, and other Quince for eating raw
Post by: SoCal2warm on February 11, 2019, 09:11:45 PM
Keep in mind if they are growing in a low-chill area of California they are likely not to grow as vigorously or take much longer before they begin fruiting.
Both those trees with fruit on them I showed pictures of were growing in Washington.
The quince tree in California is still alive, doing just okay, though slowly growing, has produced flowers but so far no fruit.
Title: Re: Karp's Sweet Quince, and other Quince for eating raw
Post by: Nicole on February 11, 2019, 10:51:46 PM
Interesting info,SoCal2warm, thanks for sharing. Will hope for best )) I actually wanted to graft on this tree Kaunching and Smyrna to have few varieties on one tree. Do you know anything about how Kaunching or Smyrna are doing in  SoCal climate? I also would like to see a photo of actual Kaunching's fruit to know more about a shape.  Not to many actual pictures of it in internet. I would really appreciate if someone would show it. As far as I know Kaunching is another variety that  is good to eat raw.

SoCal2warm, I wanted to thank you for all of your photos with images of flowers, leaves and fruits. It is what I always like to see, especially when trying to pick a variety.

Interesting observation... I looked for the variety Kuganskaya, on Russian web sources, wanted to find more info or photos. I never find it..)) there is not such a variety under this name in Russia. They have Kubanskaya. I guess someone made a mistake and misspelled it from the very beginning.
Title: Re: Karp's Sweet Quince, and other Quince for eating raw
Post by: SoCal2warm on February 12, 2019, 09:17:06 PM
I actually wanted to graft on this tree Kaunching and Smyrna to have few varieties on one tree. Do you know anything about how Kaunching or Smyrna are doing in  SoCal climate?
I'm pretty sure Karp's Sweet is probably a better variety than Kaunching or Smyrna (not that those two are bad varieties).
 Also I believe that Karp's Sweet probably has a lower chill requirement than other quince varieties (though I'm not certain about this), so other varieties would probably do worse in your climate. Considering where you live, I would not bother trying to graft on any other quince varieties.

In a warm climate with plenty of heat, Karp's Sweet is probably going to be the best you will get, I would think.


I also would like to see a photo of actual Kaunching's fruit to know more about a shape.  Not to many actual pictures of it in internet. I would really appreciate if someone would show it. As far as I know Kaunching is another variety that  is good to eat raw.
This is just from my memory, but from the research I did in the past it seemed like Kaunching was one of the good more edible varieties, but probably wasn't quite as good for raw eating as Crimea, Kuganskaya, and Aromatnaya.
(I mean all four varieties are probably pretty close in terms of quality for eating raw, it's just that out of those four Kaunching would come in last place)

I actually saw a bunch of Kaunching trees for sale at my local nursery a year or two ago (and was surprised because that's not a common variety) but didn't get one because I thought the two varieties I already had were probably a little bit better.

It is of course possible I could be wrong about all this, but you just asked my thoughts and opinion.
Title: Re: Karp's Sweet Quince, and other Quince for eating raw
Post by: Nicole on February 13, 2019, 05:32:04 PM
" It is of course possible I could be wrong about all this, but you just asked my thoughts and opinion"
and I appreciated it. It is always helpful to know about someone else's experience and opinions as well.  Please keep sharing. It is so rare to find any kind of discussions about  quince. Many people are not familiar with it and does not know what to do with quince.
I did not have any experience growing quince in past. All I remember is eating it )) without thinking about a variety. Sometimes it was good to eat raw, sometimes it had some astringency in it. But either way I can have just a couple of raw slices, I prefer it cooked anyway. Love the smell...everything is nice about quince..beautiful blooming period, fruits on the tree and of cause that delicate smell. It is a real treat!   
Title: Re: Karp's Sweet Quince, and other Quince for eating raw
Post by: SoCal2warm on September 25, 2019, 03:33:21 PM
Kuganskaya fruit

(https://i.postimg.cc/ZBf6sRvX/20190925-122613.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/ZBf6sRvX)

September 25, 2019

They are not fully ripe yet but I already had one. Yes, I could eat it raw, but it was very slightly astringent and seemed to be pretty acidic, so much so that it kind of hurt my teeth. Flavor was about one third pear, one third heirloom apple, and one third something else, unique to quince.
The skin of these edible raw quinces are not as fragrant as other normal quinces.

I think these special quinces would be very good with even the slightest bit of cooking or pan searing with a carmelized sauce.
Title: Re: Karp's Sweet Quince, and other Quince for eating raw
Post by: SoCal2warm on June 18, 2021, 03:24:37 AM
An update: The Karp's Sweet has produced several little fruit druplets, but I fear they may drop off.
That type of thing seems to often happen when the tree does not have enough vigor due to lack of previous winter chill.

Meanwhile the Passe Crassane tree seems to be growing very well in its zone 10 climate, which I feel is notable for a European pear.


Edit as of the start of July:
Another update: There are now two fruits on the Karp's Sweet. Each is only about the size of a tangerine now.