here is a description of feeding bananas pseudostems to pigs.
https://c.ymcdn.com/sites/echocommunity.site-ym.com/resource/collection/F6FFA3BF-02EF-4FE3-B180-F391C063E31A/An_introduction_to_Asian_Natural_Farming_-_Pig_Production.pdf
https://www.echocommunity.org/en/resources/579add28-94df-4a20-aeee-71a183989293
https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=echo+feeding+pigs+banana+stalks
That info is gold! Thanks Pineislander.
Caesar I've had both goats and pigs strip grape vines of foliage - I don't know if this is normal for other animals (say cattle) but eversince the pigs discovered where the grape vines were (this is in the farm back in the Phils) my caretaker regularly finds them spending hours in there stripping off new growth off the trunk. Both animals have also managed to defoliate young olive trees and sassafras and a lot of muntingia and moringa which were planted as living fences. Left unattended I've discovered pigs will also eat the young banana suckers - they mainly like to eat the white soft pulp inside the pseudostem.
Interesting. I'm not sure Grapevine is very productive in leaf, but at least we know it's an option, and I'd imagine old established vines can take defoliation without a problem. I once found a page describing Muntingia as almost being good forage, but apparently not taking well to repeated cutting, but I couldn't find it again just yet.
Humans can eat grape leaves too! Dolmades are made with grape leaves and are delicious 
I'd love to try such a recipe. But first, I gotta get my grapevine up and growing.
Did anyone mention mulberry? Those leaves are excellent fodder.
I did. They actually taught me that one in college, apparently it makes a spectacular forage. I brought back an alba tree with me to plant at home, next to my nigra tree.
Permaculture also has to do with efficiency, inputs and outputs...
getting the most bang-for the buck, so to speak.
and from that perspective, animals are not very efficient.
To me, it would make more sense to be able to take any extra food, and trade it for something you need,
or, sell it.
Animals have the potential to be much more work and/or problems...
Vet bills, making sure they are fed, water, disease, space, noise, fencing/pens, butchering etc...
The amount of area used to feed an animal is much more efficiently used by growing crops for humans instead.
If you are someone who just has to have bacon to be happy, well, i guess that has to be taken into consideration also,
but to me thats a large price to pay.
I hear what you're saying. For the longest time, I focused all my plans on plants, 'cause I figures animals are more complicated. But they've been an integral part of agriculture for a long time, and I always wanted to see if I could get to produce them without the environmental impact of industrial agriculture. Besides, I thought they were vital to permaculture, otherwise you'd just have veganic agriculture (a fine alternative, but I like eggs and dairy). I always thought permaculture had more to do with diversity and synergy between components (efficiency, but in the context of the farm's ecosystem).
At any rate, I rarely look at efficiency so much as effectiveness. If there is a net loss in the efforts you're making, clearly you're doing something wrong. But if there's no such loss (better still, if there's some actual gain, however minor), then I consider it a success, even if it's inefficient. Don't get me wrong, I like efficiency as much as the next guy, and strive for it whenever I can. But just because efficiency is important doesn't mean it's THE most important thing for me. There's a lot to be done, and every individual has to get their own set of priorities in order before they get started on any project.
Animals are more work (and problems, as you say), but for the people in that line of work those are just challenges. Besides, I can't imagine a low intensity, low animal density, pasture-based farm could incur such costs in the same way that an industrial farm would. Sure, there's less gain with less output of product, but I'm seeking to integrate low cost of production into the design as well, so it's balanced (if it works). There's no "feed" bill if you're growing all their food, and no need for additional fertilization if you use compost, manure, green manure and nitrogen fixers in the system. At least, I hope I have my theory right (do correct me if I'm wrong).
I'm actually not that fond of most meats (it's a taste thing), nor of the slaughtering process. But I do like animals. Dairy goats and laying chickens were a certainty in my plans, I just wondered if a good system could be put in place for pigs as well. I came back from that field trip a little frazzled with what they make the pigs go through, and tried to mentally design a farm that could produce them (in small quantities) with little to no environmental impact and no suffering for the animals. A more natural system. So I guess you could say, I didn't go into this thinking "what could I do with this waste/excess from my crops?". I came into this thinking "how could I make pig farming a greener endeavor?". And the thread's idea was born.
