Author Topic: 2020 Mango Season (Florida)  (Read 42418 times)

Squam256

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Re: 2020 Mango Season (Florida)
« Reply #175 on: March 27, 2020, 08:40:33 AM »
Quote
Funny how we can grow over 300 great disease free Mango trees that produce bountiful healthy fruit without ever being watered.

Do you have pics of the varieties besides that Pickering?

I used to grow mangos in Loxahatchee Groves and Pickering was one of the few that would fruit no matter what. Particularly as the trees gained canopy and humidity levels increased.
« Last Edit: March 27, 2020, 08:44:29 AM by Squam256 »

mangokothiyan

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Re: 2020 Mango Season (Florida)
« Reply #176 on: March 27, 2020, 09:22:38 AM »
I’m all for watering as needed but with Mangos at our place it is not needed.  Grafted Black Sapote and grafted Sapodilla are a different story unless the soil is perfect, which on a larger scale takes time.  Seed grown trees of BS and Sapodilla don’t require watering, for this reason we are growing replacements for BS and Sapodillas out now.  We plan on not selling our Mango fruit for the next  2 years and we are planting out all our Mango fruit seeds.  A major difference between organic and those using chemical fertilizers is you have to water if you use chemicals, whereas if you are organic watering isn’t always required especially for Mangos here.  Grafted trees just don’t have the vigor of seed grown trees.

The Pickering is a 5x5 mound in ground two years never been watered.


I hope you know that most mango varieties don't come true to type from seed.   As for the Pickering, I'd expect a tree that has been in the ground for two years to be bigger than that, even if it is a Pickering.

Cookie Monster

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Re: 2020 Mango Season (Florida)
« Reply #177 on: March 27, 2020, 04:54:13 PM »
That came out of left field... a little ad hominem to spice things up here?

Watering is always required if one wants the trees to uptake nutrients (it's the action of the water evaporating through the leaves that pulls nutrients up). In times of drought, water is going to be absorbed from deeper portions of the soil, which is typically less nutrient dense. Also, conventional fertilizers come in slow release form, which would act similarly to organic.

Water isn't required for mangoes (here in FL) if one is only interested in keeping the trees alive. For bountiful crops of quality fruit, moist soil is important. In places where rainfall isn't as plentiful as FL, only the most drought tolerant species will survive without supplemental irrigation (eg, eucalyptus).

In life, optimal outcome is generally achieved via finding a "sweet spot" or middle ground between two extremes. A mix of organic and conventional practices works very well. The extent to which one can move to one side or another of the spectrum depends heavily upon what natural amenities the growing location provides (eg, natural soil quality, rainfall, temperatures, disease pressure, wind, etc).

I’m all for watering as needed but with Mangos at our place it is not needed.  Grafted Black Sapote and grafted Sapodilla are a different story unless the soil is perfect, which on a larger scale takes time.  Seed grown trees of BS and Sapodilla don’t require watering, for this reason we are growing replacements for BS and Sapodillas out now.  We plan on not selling our Mango fruit for the next  2 years and we are planting out all our Mango fruit seeds.  A major difference between organic and those using chemical fertilizers is you have to water if you use chemicals, whereas if you are organic watering isn’t always required especially for Mangos here.  Grafted trees just don’t have the vigor of seed grown trees.

The Pickering is a 5x5 mound in ground two years never been watered.

Okay Jeff.   I know from previous experience regarding watering that we are not supposed to disagree with you or risk harassment and being run off this site, I have no problem with leaving here..  ’This place has been a valuable source of ideas for many.  Since before I came along there was no information for Organic Growers.  According to you, your way is the only way to grow Mangos if you want fruit.  Funny how we can grow over 300 great disease free Mango trees that produce bountiful healthy fruit without ever being watered.  Disease free fruit is something you admittedly have been unable to accomplish without spraying toxic fungicides.  Unlike you, our fruit from the first bloom did not drop and we do not spray fungicides or water.  I know of plenty of other growers in Florida who produce plentiful mango fruit without ever watering their trees.  We have different philosophies and management styles.  Sorry but using slow release fertilizer is not “similar to organic. “  All the other crap and misinformation I consistently read on here from all of the  “mango experts” like yourself and a couple others,  “don’t use compost”,  “you must water your trees to produce fruit” “spray fungicides” every other week, is mostly a bunch of misinformation that can be found on the back of any fertilizer bag for backyard growers seeking knowledge.  We make  biodynamic compost and start our Mango seeds in 100% pure compost without any problems.  Our Mangos that have been given the most compost do the best and produce by far the most fruit.   We use compost on our Mangos and they love it no disease no problems.  We don’t have fungal issues and we do not spray.  We do not water Mangos and we have a whole lot of fruit.  Dry farmed fruit is more flavorful and can demand a higher price.  Thankfully we know what we are doing therefore we don’t farm like you, this works for us, Florida’s waterways and our Mangos.   Do what makes you and your trees happy, water if you want.  Don’t kill frogs, don’t pollute your neighbors.  :-)🐸
Jeff  :-)

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Re: 2020 Mango Season (Florida)
« Reply #178 on: March 27, 2020, 06:26:19 PM »
Well, everyone's background, education, knowledge, location, and experience are different.  I love the idea of all-natural where the soil is nourished above all else (God knows we've lost too much precious topsoil in this country and around the world!), but I'm not sure everyone can pull it off, especially growing fruit trees on a small lot in the middle of the city.  I've met Jeff.  He's an okay person.  I can't imagine him harassing anyone.
« Last Edit: March 27, 2020, 06:30:45 PM by johnb51 »
John

Squam256

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Re: 2020 Mango Season (Florida)
« Reply #179 on: March 27, 2020, 06:31:14 PM »
Lemon Meringue looking decent:


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Re: 2020 Mango Season (Florida)
« Reply #180 on: March 27, 2020, 06:40:43 PM »
Lemon Meringue looking decent:


Looking really nice!

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Re: 2020 Mango Season (Florida)
« Reply #181 on: March 27, 2020, 07:06:25 PM »
What variety is this?





John

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Re: 2020 Mango Season (Florida)
« Reply #182 on: March 27, 2020, 07:07:26 PM »
Well i am just a newbie, compared to you all who’ve been growing fruit trees here in South FL for 15-20 years. My experience of growing them in southeast Nepal with similar climate but with no fertilizers except home cow’s dried manure  does not count because everything is different here  and i have to begin learning from the kindergarten level again. I really appreciate this forum, reading all the experiences and opinions in detail, very helpful stuff. My garden is in 10b, 3 miles from the ocean closest beach is sunny isles, it’s 3 yrs old and most mango trees bought as 3 gallon from Zills are 5-6 ft tall now. They are all mulched 6-8 inch and except for the first month after transplant they were never watered. Last year i was not worried about lack of flowering because i thought it’s good as they need to establish. This year the only trees that have substantial flowering are Carrie and Glenn, about 1/2 of tree flowered and the fruit set also is satisfactory. There might be other factors for not flowering but i am guessing could it be no watering? Also i have not sprayed them with copper, i saw some anthracnose on some leaves but the problem resolved itself. I am leaving them as is without spraying copper/sulphur and irrigation and see. All i have done is mulch the whole garden but i may need to do more to make the trees flower eventually. Neighbor’s trees that are 20-25 ft tall flower profusely and fruit consistently every year with no mulch, no fertilizer no watering. They are tommy atkins, they leave the fruit for us when they fly up north every summer, and their fruits ripened in our garage were more delicious than all mangoes i tried at the saturday mangoes  sale up in Delray beach.

I keep on asking myself, are we compromising the health of a tree by focusing on fruit production as sole objective of the tree? Is the tree’s immunity and strength not our focus? Do we think constant treatement with copper/sulphur and pesticides send a signal to the tree to not invoke its immunity? Am i giving too much human quality to the tree and should treat the tree as just a tree, a lower intelligence life form at mercy of humans to be saved from pests to continue its existence and generation? For example, if aliens existed and wanted human race to work as slaves and humans to grow in numbers they would focus on fertility but is increase in  fertility in humans a sign of health, or is it good immunity?. I see same happen with cattle industry here but growing up back in my village, our cow was our family member and we focused on her health and not milk production as we knew her milk is only as nutritious as the nutrition we give to her. I  know i am going off the topic, just musing, there is nothing else to do, lockdown, no job, just go around the garden and check on the trees :) . I would not plant 30 mango varieties just for shade or for look of healthy leaves, i love mangoes, more than any other fruits or food in the world. I am all for experimentation, i will not ridicule the Frog farm member who is giving a different perspective to and i won’t step on the foot of some gods of mango growers who have seen it all for the last 20 yrs of growing, i learn a lot from you all. Keeping an open mind, thats all.
Be safe!
Satya

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Re: 2020 Mango Season (Florida)
« Reply #183 on: March 27, 2020, 07:48:13 PM »

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Re: 2020 Mango Season (Florida)
« Reply #184 on: March 27, 2020, 10:12:28 PM »
OK. You lost me somewhere around the part about the aliens.

Well i am just a newbie, compared to you all who’ve been growing fruit trees here in South FL for 15-20 years. My experience of growing them in southeast Nepal with similar climate but with no fertilizers except home cow’s dried manure  does not count because everything is different here  and i have to begin learning from the kindergarten level again. I really appreciate this forum, reading all the experiences and opinions in detail, very helpful stuff. My garden is in 10b, 3 miles from the ocean closest beach is sunny isles, it’s 3 yrs old and most mango trees bought as 3 gallon from Zills are 5-6 ft tall now. They are all mulched 6-8 inch and except for the first month after transplant they were never watered. Last year i was not worried about lack of flowering because i thought it’s good as they need to establish. This year the only trees that have substantial flowering are Carrie and Glenn, about 1/2 of tree flowered and the fruit set also is satisfactory. There might be other factors for not flowering but i am guessing could it be no watering? Also i have not sprayed them with copper, i saw some anthracnose on some leaves but the problem resolved itself. I am leaving them as is without spraying copper/sulphur and irrigation and see. All i have done is mulch the whole garden but i may need to do more to make the trees flower eventually. Neighbor’s trees that are 20-25 ft tall flower profusely and fruit consistently every year with no mulch, no fertilizer no watering. They are tommy atkins, they leave the fruit for us when they fly up north every summer, and their fruits ripened in our garage were more delicious than all mangoes i tried at the saturday mangoes  sale up in Delray beach.

I keep on asking myself, are we compromising the health of a tree by focusing on fruit production as sole objective of the tree? Is the tree’s immunity and strength not our focus? Do we think constant treatement with copper/sulphur and pesticides send a signal to the tree to not invoke its immunity? Am i giving too much human quality to the tree and should treat the tree as just a tree, a lower intelligence life form at mercy of humans to be saved from pests to continue its existence and generation? For example, if aliens existed and wanted human race to work as slaves and humans to grow in numbers they would focus on fertility but is increase in  fertility in humans a sign of health, or is it good immunity?. I see same happen with cattle industry here but growing up back in my village, our cow was our family member and we focused on her health and not milk production as we knew her milk is only as nutritious as the nutrition we give to her. I  know i am going off the topic, just musing, there is nothing else to do, lockdown, no job, just go around the garden and check on the trees :) . I would not plant 30 mango varieties just for shade or for look of healthy leaves, i love mangoes, more than any other fruits or food in the world. I am all for experimentation, i will not ridicule the Frog farm member who is giving a different perspective to and i won’t step on the foot of some gods of mango growers who have seen it all for the last 20 yrs of growing, i learn a lot from you all. Keeping an open mind, thats all.
Be safe!
Jeff  :-)

palmcity

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Re: 2020 Mango Season (Florida)
« Reply #185 on: March 27, 2020, 11:18:12 PM »
My garden is in 10b, 3 miles from the ocean closest beach is sunny isles, it’s 3 yrs old and most mango trees bought as 3 gallon from Zills are 5-6 ft tall now. They are all mulched 6-8 inch


1.There might be other factors for not flowering but i am guessing could it be no watering?
2. I keep on asking myself, are we compromising the health of a tree by focusing on fruit production as sole objective of the tree?
3. Is the tree’s immunity and strength not our focus?
4. Do we think constant treatement with copper/sulphur and pesticides send a signal to the tree to not invoke its immunity?
5.Am i giving too much human quality to the tree and should treat the tree as just a tree, a lower intelligence life form at mercy of humans to be saved from pests to continue its existence and generation?
6.For example, if aliens existed and wanted human race to work as slaves and humans to grow in numbers they would focus on fertility but is increase in  fertility in humans a sign of health, or is it good immunity?.

*I see same happen with cattle industry here but growing up back in my village, our cow was our family member and we focused on her health and not milk production as we knew her milk is only as nutritious as the nutrition we give to her.
#I  know i am going off the topic, just musing, there is nothing else to do, lockdown, no job, just go around the garden and check on the trees :) .
##I would not plant 30 mango varieties just for shade or for look of healthy leaves, i love mangoes, more than any other fruits or food in the world.
### I am all for experimentation, i will not ridicule the Frog farm member who is giving a different perspective
1.Yes
2.Hope your not
3. You listed 2 of many qualities needed to focus on.
4. I don't.
5. Yes
6. Neither
* A lot of families have a cow for a member
# Yep
## Sounds right.
### ok

 ;D ;)



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Re: 2020 Mango Season (Florida)
« Reply #186 on: March 28, 2020, 02:34:43 AM »
Jeff, thanks for reading..the fact that you read all the way and reached the aliens is actually not a loss  😉😊.
OK. You lost me somewhere around the part about the aliens.

Well i am just a newbie, compared to you all who’ve been growing fruit trees here in South FL for 15-20 years. My experience of growing them in southeast Nepal with similar climate but with no fertilizers except home cow’s dried manure  does not count because everything is different here  and i have to begin learning from the kindergarten level again. I really appreciate this forum, reading all the experiences and opinions in detail, very helpful stuff. My garden is in 10b, 3 miles from the ocean closest beach is sunny isles, it’s 3 yrs old and most mango trees bought as 3 gallon from Zills are 5-6 ft tall now. They are all mulched 6-8 inch and except for the first month after transplant they were never watered. Last year i was not worried about lack of flowering because i thought it’s good as they need to establish. This year the only trees that have substantial flowering are Carrie and Glenn, about 1/2 of tree flowered and the fruit set also is satisfactory. There might be other factors for not flowering but i am guessing could it be no watering? Also i have not sprayed them with copper, i saw some anthracnose on some leaves but the problem resolved itself. I am leaving them as is without spraying copper/sulphur and irrigation and see. All i have done is mulch the whole garden but i may need to do more to make the trees flower eventually. Neighbor’s trees that are 20-25 ft tall flower profusely and fruit consistently every year with no mulch, no fertilizer no watering. They are tommy atkins, they leave the fruit for us when they fly up north every summer, and their fruits ripened in our garage were more delicious than all mangoes i tried at the saturday mangoes  sale up in Delray beach.

I keep on asking myself, are we compromising the health of a tree by focusing on fruit production as sole objective of the tree? Is the tree’s immunity and strength not our focus? Do we think constant treatement with copper/sulphur and pesticides send a signal to the tree to not invoke its immunity? Am i giving too much human quality to the tree and should treat the tree as just a tree, a lower intelligence life form at mercy of humans to be saved from pests to continue its existence and generation? For example, if aliens existed and wanted human race to work as slaves and humans to grow in numbers they would focus on fertility but is increase in  fertility in humans a sign of health, or is it good immunity?. I see same happen with cattle industry here but growing up back in my village, our cow was our family member and we focused on her health and not milk production as we knew her milk is only as nutritious as the nutrition we give to her. I  know i am going off the topic, just musing, there is nothing else to do, lockdown, no job, just go around the garden and check on the trees :) . I would not plant 30 mango varieties just for shade or for look of healthy leaves, i love mangoes, more than any other fruits or food in the world. I am all for experimentation, i will not ridicule the Frog farm member who is giving a different perspective to and i won’t step on the foot of some gods of mango growers who have seen it all for the last 20 yrs of growing, i learn a lot from you all. Keeping an open mind, thats all.
Be safe!
Satya

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Re: 2020 Mango Season (Florida)
« Reply #187 on: March 28, 2020, 02:56:34 AM »
Hi palmcity, thanks for reading through and breaking down my loong post into the questions/answers, it cuts all the crap and makes it objective, binary and scientifically arguable. I respect your opinion, these did sound philosophical questions of gardening for gardeners but they are not, it’s our daily life with our fruit trees and we choose how to live with them based on our knowledge and experience with them... during these difficult times when i am hearing about doctors having a difficult time, asked to make hard decision of choosing who to sacrifice a ventilator from, based on age or morbidity of a certain patient, given the shortage of ventilators...i know it sounds gross but it is the truth and they will choose who’s more productive for the society and who has more chances of survival on simple triage.., i guess we also make similar choices with the plants, given our difficult climate, the soil, the plant diseases and pests, things are not ideal and we make modifications in how we grow plants/fruit trees based on our situation, for me fortunately there is time and with time there is possibility of learning and unlearning through trial and error with controlled irrigation/fungicides/ artificial fertilizers etc...i thank you for participating in this discussion.

My garden is in 10b, 3 miles from the ocean closest beach is sunny isles, it’s 3 yrs old and most mango trees bought as 3 gallon from Zills are 5-6 ft tall now. They are all mulched 6-8 inch


1.There might be other factors for not flowering but i am guessing could it be no watering?
2. I keep on asking myself, are we compromising the health of a tree by focusing on fruit production as sole objective of the tree?
3. Is the tree’s immunity and strength not our focus?
4. Do we think constant treatement with copper/sulphur and pesticides send a signal to the tree to not invoke its immunity?
5.Am i giving too much human quality to the tree and should treat the tree as just a tree, a lower intelligence life form at mercy of humans to be saved from pests to continue its existence and generation?
6.For example, if aliens existed and wanted human race to work as slaves and humans to grow in numbers they would focus on fertility but is increase in  fertility in humans a sign of health, or is it good immunity?.

*I see same happen with cattle industry here but growing up back in my village, our cow was our family member and we focused on her health and not milk production as we knew her milk is only as nutritious as the nutrition we give to her.
#I  know i am going off the topic, just musing, there is nothing else to do, lockdown, no job, just go around the garden and check on the trees :) .
##I would not plant 30 mango varieties just for shade or for look of healthy leaves, i love mangoes, more than any other fruits or food in the world.
### I am all for experimentation, i will not ridicule the Frog farm member who is giving a different perspective
1.Yes
2.Hope your not
3. You listed 2 of many qualities needed to focus on.
4. I don't.
5. Yes
6. Neither
* A lot of families have a cow for a member
# Yep
## Sounds right.
### ok

 ;D ;)
« Last Edit: March 28, 2020, 03:04:25 AM by tropical-farmer »
Satya

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Re: 2020 Mango Season (Florida)
« Reply #188 on: March 28, 2020, 07:18:59 AM »
Well, everyone's background, education, knowledge, location, and experience are different.  I love the idea of all-natural where the soil is nourished above all else (God knows we've lost too much precious topsoil in this country and around the world!), but I'm not sure everyone can pull it off, especially growing fruit trees on a small lot in the middle of the city.  I've met Jeff.  He's an okay person.  I can't imagine him harassing anyone.
If any other random member here gave feedback completely discounting my truth it may not be considered harassment but since Jeff is an administrator his posts pack more of a punch and I feel harassed. Most Florida residents know of prolifically fruiting healthy Mango tree that is not getting additional water it makes his statement laughable.  Constant promotion of chemicals use by many of the onsite Mango experts of what amounts to pollution that kills life pollutes waterways, produces toxic unhealthy foods and happily encourages others in mass to do the same earth destroying practice of chemical pollution is not a very admirable quality.  He is an expert at growing Mangos on a double city lot with chemical pollutants, not organically and obviously has a very limited understanding of how natural systems work, definitely should not speak for any organic Mango growers and others who care for Florida and its future.
« Last Edit: March 28, 2020, 08:28:54 AM by Frog Valley Farm »

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Re: 2020 Mango Season (Florida)
« Reply #189 on: March 28, 2020, 09:41:27 AM »
HAHAHAHA

Jeff, thanks for reading..the fact that you read all the way and reached the aliens is actually not a loss  😉😊.
OK. You lost me somewhere around the part about the aliens.

Well i am just a newbie, compared to you all who’ve been growing fruit trees here in South FL for 15-20 years. My experience of growing them in southeast Nepal with similar climate but with no fertilizers except home cow’s dried manure  does not count because everything is different here  and i have to begin learning from the kindergarten level again. I really appreciate this forum, reading all the experiences and opinions in detail, very helpful stuff. My garden is in 10b, 3 miles from the ocean closest beach is sunny isles, it’s 3 yrs old and most mango trees bought as 3 gallon from Zills are 5-6 ft tall now. They are all mulched 6-8 inch and except for the first month after transplant they were never watered. Last year i was not worried about lack of flowering because i thought it’s good as they need to establish. This year the only trees that have substantial flowering are Carrie and Glenn, about 1/2 of tree flowered and the fruit set also is satisfactory. There might be other factors for not flowering but i am guessing could it be no watering? Also i have not sprayed them with copper, i saw some anthracnose on some leaves but the problem resolved itself. I am leaving them as is without spraying copper/sulphur and irrigation and see. All i have done is mulch the whole garden but i may need to do more to make the trees flower eventually. Neighbor’s trees that are 20-25 ft tall flower profusely and fruit consistently every year with no mulch, no fertilizer no watering. They are tommy atkins, they leave the fruit for us when they fly up north every summer, and their fruits ripened in our garage were more delicious than all mangoes i tried at the saturday mangoes  sale up in Delray beach.

I keep on asking myself, are we compromising the health of a tree by focusing on fruit production as sole objective of the tree? Is the tree’s immunity and strength not our focus? Do we think constant treatement with copper/sulphur and pesticides send a signal to the tree to not invoke its immunity? Am i giving too much human quality to the tree and should treat the tree as just a tree, a lower intelligence life form at mercy of humans to be saved from pests to continue its existence and generation? For example, if aliens existed and wanted human race to work as slaves and humans to grow in numbers they would focus on fertility but is increase in  fertility in humans a sign of health, or is it good immunity?. I see same happen with cattle industry here but growing up back in my village, our cow was our family member and we focused on her health and not milk production as we knew her milk is only as nutritious as the nutrition we give to her. I  know i am going off the topic, just musing, there is nothing else to do, lockdown, no job, just go around the garden and check on the trees :) . I would not plant 30 mango varieties just for shade or for look of healthy leaves, i love mangoes, more than any other fruits or food in the world. I am all for experimentation, i will not ridicule the Frog farm member who is giving a different perspective to and i won’t step on the foot of some gods of mango growers who have seen it all for the last 20 yrs of growing, i learn a lot from you all. Keeping an open mind, thats all.
Be safe!
Jeff  :-)

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Re: 2020 Mango Season (Florida)
« Reply #190 on: March 28, 2020, 09:53:25 AM »
Hey Frog -- sorry I don't know your real name -- we welcome your thoughts to the discussion, and I understand that sometimes disagreements invoke emotion. But I suggest defending or contradicting based on addressing the points of the argument rather than appealing to ad hominem and attacking the author with disparaging commentary -- which feels a bit like harassment.

Well, everyone's background, education, knowledge, location, and experience are different.  I love the idea of all-natural where the soil is nourished above all else (God knows we've lost too much precious topsoil in this country and around the world!), but I'm not sure everyone can pull it off, especially growing fruit trees on a small lot in the middle of the city.  I've met Jeff.  He's an okay person.  I can't imagine him harassing anyone.
If any other random member here gave feedback completely discounting my truth it may not be considered harassment but since Jeff is an administrator his posts pack more of a punch and I feel harassed. Most Florida residents know of prolifically fruiting healthy Mango tree that is not getting additional water it makes his statement laughable.  Constant promotion of chemicals use by many of the onsite Mango experts of what amounts to pollution that kills life pollutes waterways, produces toxic unhealthy foods and happily encourages others in mass to do the same earth destroying practice of chemical pollution is not a very admirable quality.  He is an expert at growing Mangos on a double city lot with chemical pollutants, not organically and obviously has a very limited understanding of how natural systems work, definitely should not speak for any organic Mango growers and others who care for Florida and its future.
Jeff  :-)

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Re: 2020 Mango Season (Florida)
« Reply #191 on: March 28, 2020, 01:36:15 PM »
 ;)
« Last Edit: March 28, 2020, 01:49:23 PM by palmcity »

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Re: 2020 Mango Season (Florida)
« Reply #192 on: March 28, 2020, 04:43:52 PM »

Well, everyone's background, education, knowledge, location, and experience are different.  I love the idea of all-natural where the soil is nourished above all else (God knows we've lost too much precious topsoil in this country and around the world!), but I'm not sure everyone can pull it off, especially growing fruit trees on a small lot in the middle of the city.  I've met Jeff.  He's an okay person.  I can't imagine him harassing anyone.
If any other random member here gave feedback completely discounting my truth it may not be considered harassment but since Jeff is an administrator his posts pack more of a punch and I feel harassed. Most Florida residents know of prolifically fruiting healthy Mango tree that is not getting additional water it makes his statement laughable.  Constant promotion of chemicals use by many of the onsite Mango experts of what amounts to pollution that kills life pollutes waterways, produces toxic unhealthy foods and happily encourages others in mass to do the same earth destroying practice of chemical pollution is not a very admirable quality.  He is an expert at growing Mangos on a double city lot with chemical pollutants, not organically and obviously has a very limited understanding of how natural systems work, definitely should not speak for any organic Mango growers and others who care for Florida and its future.


I have known Jeff for years and he is not one to harass anyone. Besides, he is also one of the most knowledgeable members on the forum. There is nothing in his posts that can be considered harassment. His posts pack a punch not because he is an administrator but because he knows what he is doing. 

By disparaging him as an "expert at growing Mangos on a double city lot with chemical pollutants, not organically and obviously has a very limited understanding of how natural systems work," you are just inviting ridicule. 

roblack

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Re: 2020 Mango Season (Florida)
« Reply #193 on: March 28, 2020, 05:28:24 PM »
everyone needs to chill and get back on topic.

I love Froggie and Cookie and their perspectives and base of knowledge. They come from different angles, which is great. Of course they are not going to agree, and feelings can get involved. No big deal.

This forum will be much less without either.

...mangoes are looking so sweet. sleeping under my Glenn till they are ripe

=)

« Last Edit: March 28, 2020, 05:30:08 PM by roblack »

FMfruitforest

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Re: 2020 Mango Season (Florida)
« Reply #194 on: March 28, 2020, 06:57:55 PM »
Mangoes starting to size up here(Golden Nugget)
Definitely feeling like spring in Fla


Jabba The Hutt

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Re: 2020 Mango Season (Florida)
« Reply #195 on: March 28, 2020, 08:03:15 PM »
I get where Frog's frustration probably stems from... us natural guys constantly getting the "you can't grow anything without the use of poisons, due to so and so..." speeches from those who aren't willing to go the extra mile to maintain the ultimate integrity of food and acting like you doing so is impossible because they can't manage it is tired and condescending.

Just because "Mr. Conventional" has to spray a 55 Gallon drum of Roundup a week on every individual vegetable or tree they grow doesn't mean they need to puff their chests up and tell you that you better learn to enjoy poisonous taste of Glyphosate because it's so good for you and you need it while taking in your chemical free collection telling you that it cannot be done in that manner...

Nobody enjoys getting pissed on like that and those kind of people always are the rudest most stubborn people when you mention it can be done naturally like nature has for millions of years before the industrialization of the world happened. They try to shut your truth down immediately and I take joy in watching them writhe in the light of truth when their brains start comprehending they may be ousted.

That rant being ranted, I don't see Jeff as trying to pee on anyone's rainbow, just stating what has worked best and most optimally in his experiences.

Point being, we all can learn a lot from others experiences no matter what methods are used as long as we can just listen and keep an open mind to what others are saying. Agree or disagree, everybody should have a platform to express their thoughts!

Looking forward to scarfing down as many varieties of mangoes as possible this year! I want to be so lucky as to taste the M-4 this time ;)


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Re: 2020 Mango Season (Florida)
« Reply #196 on: March 28, 2020, 09:11:18 PM »
A couple of my trees are just now starting they're second bloom!

Orkine

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Re: 2020 Mango Season (Florida)
« Reply #197 on: March 28, 2020, 09:21:58 PM »
Second bloom was better for me than the first, not necessarily in number of blooms but fruit set.

I still have a couple (2 trees) flushing flowers after so many really warm days and no rain in what looks like forever.


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Re: 2020 Mango Season (Florida)
« Reply #198 on: March 29, 2020, 10:36:22 AM »
:D Yah, I certainly don't have anything against organic growing. I was actually an organic grower for roughly a decade. And I actually followed a similar path: attempting to solve my problems with soil. In the end, I spread a grand total of around 1,000 cubic yards of tree trimmer mulch over about 12,000 sq feet of land through a 10 year time span. If you do the math, that's roughly 4 feet of mulch across a quarter acre of land -- a lot! After decomp, it turned into maybe 8 inches of beautiful black, wormy compost whose microorganisms thrive when kept moist.

Today, I grow about 80 fruit trees on a little over 1/2 acre of land on an urban double lot, and it's been a 14 year journey of experimentation with a decent bit of success thanks to the smart folks on this forum and the help of Har M, who guided me through the process of discovering what works best for my particular area.

You have raised a good point regarding the personalities involved in what amounts to a religious battle between proselytists on both sides of the debate. But sometimes I feel as if the organic proponents convert it into some sort of moral judgment, which doesn't make a whole lot of sense given the context.

A number of posters point to the argument of nature being able to take care of itself. But we forget a key point: we're not dealing with what nature gave us. For one, we've selected fruit trees based upon characteristics that nature doesn't care about: flavor, texture, brix, color, production, etc. Secondly, we've removed the trees from their native environment. Though our Floridian climate loosely resembles that of native mango regions, there are still myriad differences: humidity, soil, etc.

Moreover, just because organisms survive in a particular unmodified environment doesn't necessarily mean that we can't apply technology to make things better. For example, humans have adapted quite well to extreme heat, and I'm sure that humans have lived in hot and humid conditions for millenia. However, I'm hard pressed to find even the most staunch organic advocate who doesn't use air conditioning in their home during the Florida summer. And I don't believe organic growing really precludes supplemental irrigation during times of drought (haven't farmers used this for hundreds, perhaps thousands, of years?).

Today, I follow a modified regimen that uses organic practices where it makes sense and conventional when not. For example, I use a mix of OMRI listed and EPA Reduced Risk fungicides. For pest control, I exclusively use OMRI listed products, as they are sufficient to control insect problems and have least environmental impact. Given that organic fertilizer is hard to obtain here (and that organic micronutrient products often come from ancient sea beds -- a limited resource), I favor conventional fertilizer. And I provide supplemental irrigation in times of drought. I suggest doing whatever makes the most sense for one's particular needs and growing environment, within the bounds of EPA regs of course.

I get where Frog's frustration probably stems from... us natural guys constantly getting the "you can't grow anything without the use of poisons, due to so and so..." speeches from those who aren't willing to go the extra mile to maintain the ultimate integrity of food and acting like you doing so is impossible because they can't manage it is tired and condescending.

Just because "Mr. Conventional" has to spray a 55 Gallon drum of Roundup a week on every individual vegetable or tree they grow doesn't mean they need to puff their chests up and tell you that you better learn to enjoy poisonous taste of Glyphosate because it's so good for you and you need it while taking in your chemical free collection telling you that it cannot be done in that manner...

Nobody enjoys getting pissed on like that and those kind of people always are the rudest most stubborn people when you mention it can be done naturally like nature has for millions of years before the industrialization of the world happened. They try to shut your truth down immediately and I take joy in watching them writhe in the light of truth when their brains start comprehending they may be ousted.

That rant being ranted, I don't see Jeff as trying to pee on anyone's rainbow, just stating what has worked best and most optimally in his experiences.

Point being, we all can learn a lot from others experiences no matter what methods are used as long as we can just listen and keep an open mind to what others are saying. Agree or disagree, everybody should have a platform to express their thoughts!

Looking forward to scarfing down as many varieties of mangoes as possible this year! I want to be so lucky as to taste the M-4 this time ;)
Jeff  :-)

Jabba The Hutt

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Re: 2020 Mango Season (Florida)
« Reply #199 on: March 29, 2020, 05:10:48 PM »
:D Yah, I certainly don't have anything against organic growing. I was actually an organic grower for roughly a decade. And I actually followed a similar path: attempting to solve my problems with soil. In the end, I spread a grand total of around 1,000 cubic yards of tree trimmer mulch over about 12,000 sq feet of land through a 10 year time span. If you do the math, that's roughly 4 feet of mulch across a quarter acre of land -- a lot! After decomp, it turned into maybe 8 inches of beautiful black, wormy compost whose microorganisms thrive when kept moist.

Today, I grow about 80 fruit trees on a little over 1/2 acre of land on an urban double lot, and it's been a 14 year journey of experimentation with a decent bit of success thanks to the smart folks on this forum and the help of Har M, who guided me through the process of discovering what works best for my particular area.

You have raised a good point regarding the personalities involved in what amounts to a religious battle between proselytists on both sides of the debate. But sometimes I feel as if the organic proponents convert it into some sort of moral judgment, which doesn't make a whole lot of sense given the context.

A number of posters point to the argument of nature being able to take care of itself. But we forget a key point: we're not dealing with what nature gave us. For one, we've selected fruit trees based upon characteristics that nature doesn't care about: flavor, texture, brix, color, production, etc. Secondly, we've removed the trees from their native environment. Though our Floridian climate loosely resembles that of native mango regions, there are still myriad differences: humidity, soil, etc.

Moreover, just because organisms survive in a particular unmodified environment doesn't necessarily mean that we can't apply technology to make things better. For example, humans have adapted quite well to extreme heat, and I'm sure that humans have lived in hot and humid conditions for millenia. However, I'm hard pressed to find even the most staunch organic advocate who doesn't use air conditioning in their home during the Florida summer. And I don't believe organic growing really precludes supplemental irrigation during times of drought (haven't farmers used this for hundreds, perhaps thousands, of years?).

Today, I follow a modified regimen that uses organic practices where it makes sense and conventional when not. For example, I use a mix of OMRI listed and EPA Reduced Risk fungicides. For pest control, I exclusively use OMRI listed products, as they are sufficient to control insect problems and have least environmental impact. Given that organic fertilizer is hard to obtain here (and that organic micronutrient products often come from ancient sea beds -- a limited resource), I favor conventional fertilizer. And I provide supplemental irrigation in times of drought. I suggest doing whatever makes the most sense for one's particular needs and growing environment, within the bounds of EPA regs of course.

I get where Frog's frustration probably stems from... us natural guys constantly getting the "you can't grow anything without the use of poisons, due to so and so..." speeches from those who aren't willing to go the extra mile to maintain the ultimate integrity of food and acting like you doing so is impossible because they can't manage it is tired and condescending.

Just because "Mr. Conventional" has to spray a 55 Gallon drum of Roundup a week on every individual vegetable or tree they grow doesn't mean they need to puff their chests up and tell you that you better learn to enjoy poisonous taste of Glyphosate because it's so good for you and you need it while taking in your chemical free collection telling you that it cannot be done in that manner...

Nobody enjoys getting pissed on like that and those kind of people always are the rudest most stubborn people when you mention it can be done naturally like nature has for millions of years before the industrialization of the world happened. They try to shut your truth down immediately and I take joy in watching them writhe in the light of truth when their brains start comprehending they may be ousted.

That rant being ranted, I don't see Jeff as trying to pee on anyone's rainbow, just stating what has worked best and most optimally in his experiences.

Point being, we all can learn a lot from others experiences no matter what methods are used as long as we can just listen and keep an open mind to what others are saying. Agree or disagree, everybody should have a platform to express their thoughts!

Looking forward to scarfing down as many varieties of mangoes as possible this year! I want to be so lucky as to taste the M-4 this time ;)

Jeff, that must have been a lot of hard work and some beautiful soil!! 

I feel as you obviously are a wealth of helpful information as you have been at it for as long as you have and tried different methods over that time.

I was obviously being facetious in my postings as usual, as I'm sure everybody will come to learn. I feel if we can't have a good laugh amongst ourselves and bring some positive energy and love to our plants then we aren't doing them any justice!

I don't like judging what others do as that isn't my place and I don't want to be judged myself. If more people would check their ego and drop the narcissistic tendencies everybody gets then we could all get along better!

Out of curiosity what is the closest spacing you have on your trees on your 1/2  acre? My wife and I have a 1/3rd acre to work with and half of that is a septic mound, so we are forced to go ultra high density for the trees on our property.

 

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