Author Topic: Redox potential  (Read 2800 times)

Frog Valley Farm

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Redox potential
« on: February 13, 2020, 04:06:01 PM »
I found this paper fascinating.  No body talks about EH even though it’s responsible for every aspect of the life of a plant.  A visual assessment of a plants nutritional deficiencies is usually never right.  Organic matter seems to fix everything and the quality of the organic matter is important.  It is all about soil health.

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11104-012-1429-7

SeaWalnut

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Re: Redox potential
« Reply #1 on: February 13, 2020, 06:10:09 PM »
Its a book not a paper.
Its interesting talk about the oxigenation of the soil .
I added liqid smoke ( wood vinegar/ humic acid) with good results  in the oxigenation of the soil.
Next i want to try its leonardite wich is humic acid from ancient soil.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2020, 07:18:52 PM by SeaWalnut »

Frog Valley Farm

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Re: Redox potential
« Reply #2 on: March 29, 2020, 12:04:36 PM »
Its a book not a paper.
Its interesting talk about the oxigenation of the soil .
I added liqid smoke ( wood vinegar/ humic acid) with good results  in the oxigenation of the soil.
Next i want to try its leonardite wich is humic acid from ancient soil.
Yes highly oxidized soil is what most Mango growers in Florida deal with.  The use of riding mowers on lawn, something most everyone does, compacts our oxidized sandy soil causing acidic soil that is putting the eh and ph out of the optimum range for plant photosynthesis.  Combine that with pounding rains that further compact and then waterlogs our soil.  This puts the eh in the range that favors the anaerobic microbiology.  When you add organic matter plus use synthetic fertilizers it will burn thru the stable organic matter and decimate the plant and soil enabling microbiology that live in the roots or in the rhiizosphere.  This  practice of using synthetics with organic mulches acidifies the soil more.  This also keeps the eh and ph out of range.  Not having the eh ph In optimum range for plant health slows photosynthesis which causes plant disease, can manifest as nutrient lock or deficiency and weaken the plant making them susceptible to pest pressures.

Oxidized soil is code word for lack of organic matter. You need living roots as this is where the plant enabling healthy microbiology reside and the bodies of the microbiology make stable organic matter  which is full of plant enabling enzymes, all which enable the cycling of nutrients for the plant.  Organic matter which includes above ground living and dead plants and below ground roots will keep the eh ph at the optimum range for plant photosynthesis.  The healthy roots are where the healthy microbiology reside that mineralize the soil and the organic matter into a perfect nutrient growing solution for all plants it’s called healthy soil.  Plants grown in this perfect healthy mineralized soil do not succumb to disease or pest pressure.  So yes there is another way that isn’t sustaining Monsanto/Bayer but a way that can heal and regenerate, doesn’t pollute and it is basically free.  Compost, diversity of living roots and fix this and keep eh and ph in the optimum range and can fix and transform Florida’s compacted water logged oxidized soils and prevent disease.  A virtual natural paradise.

When did we get to the point that killing all the frogs in your yard every two weeks is alright?
The overly oxidized compacted soils don’t drain and run off into our waterways and are carrying the fertilizers and other chemicals with them.  They disrupt the human endocrine system, kill soil and damage young children’s brains.  I guess if your alright with killing frogs your alright with making more unhealthy stupid people that are buying chemicals and pharmaceuticals and encourage others to follow suit.

OMRI Approved Fungicides are only allowed to be used with permission with restrictions.  OMRI Approved Fungicides kill All Aquatic life.  I guess if your alright killing all your frogs it’s alright killing Dolphins, Sea Turtles and the rest.  When does this stop?  Are we that morally bankrupt as Americans that we don’t even know the difference between what’s right and what’s wrong anymore.  Is this the future for Florida?
I guess if your alright killing everything beautiful your willing to dilute facts just to sustain yourself.

The science is there the indigenous way of farming is Healthy for all life known and unknown.  Diverse organic abstract layers both living and dead, both below and above ground creates perfect eh ph and photosynthesis.
To everyone’s health, think and grow regeneratively. 
« Last Edit: March 29, 2020, 07:31:35 PM by Frog Valley Farm »

FMfruitforest

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Re: Redox potential
« Reply #3 on: March 29, 2020, 02:51:19 PM »
Front yard had a septic field which was 6” of topsoil then layer of gravel, followed by another 2ft or so of paver sand. In our attempt to improve soil prior to planting we removed majority of sand and have brought in compost  to mix with the remaining sand.
I think this is an easy way to improve soil for anyone planting on poor fill dirt.



Frog Valley Farm

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Re: Redox potential
« Reply #4 on: March 30, 2020, 09:01:28 AM »
Is having the Eh ph at a plants optimum range the Holy Grail of Agronomy?  Testing for ph alone means absolutely nothing.  Sure appears that way to me.

There has to be aggregation of soils to get the Eh ph in the optimal range for plant health.  Aggregation in our oxidized sand was supposed to be impossible.  This is not true.  Growing a diverse orchard floor and spraying with cow manure sprays can aggregate Florida’s oxidized sandy soils.  Aggregation is circular movement or nutrient cycle of plant beneficial nutrient/mineral molecules that are constantly moving and exchanging mineral ions with organic matter minerals and clay minerals.  Constant circular motion moving everything including water in a electrical dance all for the benefit for a plants growth. The result is aggregate soil.  Compost increases the cation exchange potential of a soil especially here in Florida. The aggregates are the result of the cation exchange.  The aggregates also hold chemical pollutants in a stable neutralized form.

The only way to have optimum Eh ph range is with aggregation and organic matter.  Mangos and all plants  grown in soil with the plants optimum Eh ph range will  not succumb or get harmed by plant pathogens like Anthracnose or insect pests.  Sounds like that’s what I want to do.

Organic matter, the plants in the orchard floor, and ruminant manure is how to aggregate Florida’s Oxidized sand and get Eh ph in optimum range there is know known other way.

It’s pretty much free too which is freakin’ amazing.

Our aggregated soil it runs deep during drought.  Simply amazing from Oxidized compacted white sand to this.

Ahh the fruit it never ends. Dry farmed tomato’s, worm free Ruby Guava, unlimited sapodilla.
« Last Edit: March 30, 2020, 09:24:35 AM by Frog Valley Farm »

sunny

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Re: Redox potential
« Reply #5 on: March 30, 2020, 09:07:05 AM »
Is that pic of your liquid compost?

Frog Valley Farm

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Re: Redox potential
« Reply #6 on: March 30, 2020, 09:35:04 AM »
That is a pic of our soil that started out as oxidized and compacted white sand that transformed into mineralized soil aggregates that in some areas go quite deep down now.  It’s small bb’ of soil, like a molecule model as that’s what it is.  We do not make liquid compost but make 3 day teas from finished Biodynamic compost or 3 day tea of raw organic cow manure to fling onto the orchard floor cover especially during time of drought and there is lots of dead plant material.  Aggregation can show within 10 days of biodynamic prep 500 spray but some small amount of compost should be applied before spraying BD500 though I’m not sure that’s necessary.
« Last Edit: March 30, 2020, 09:53:02 AM by Frog Valley Farm »

Cookie Monster

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Re: Redox potential
« Reply #7 on: March 30, 2020, 11:56:29 AM »
I think the appeal to morality is a little out of place here, but setting that aside and addressing the more general discussion around OMRI listed fungicides:

Cupric oxide is not a restricted use pesticide (RUP), and as far as I know, private application of it doesn't require permitting.

Copper is a very important micronutrient that is often lacking in soil with high pH or high organic content. In fact, one method of curing copper toxicity is to add organic matter.

The nice thing about cupric oxide (and zinc oxide) is that it's both a fungicide and a fertilizer. With an ultra-low-volume application (eg, via a mister), it's easy to stay well within the bounds of over application.

But, one should obviously get a soil test done before applying copper.

http://www.ipni.net/publication/nutrifacts-na.nsf/0/F516E471D756452D85257E3400610DCC/$FILE/NutriFacts-NA-10.pdf

OMRI Approved Fungicides are only allowed to be used with permission with restrictions.  OMRI Approved Fungicides kill All Aquatic life.  I guess if your alright killing all your frogs it’s alright killing Dolphins, Sea Turtles and the rest.  When does this stop?  Are we that morally bankrupt as Americans that we don’t even know the difference between what’s right and what’s wrong anymore.  Is this the future for Florida?
I guess if your alright killing everything beautiful your willing to dilute facts just to sustain yourself.
Jeff  :-)

Frog Valley Farm

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Re: Redox potential
« Reply #8 on: March 30, 2020, 12:16:54 PM »
When truth is false and bad is good and right is wrong. People then try and distract by confusing or mislead as is this case. Yes some OMRI approved fungicides are restricted and free to use but not all brands I assumed most people would know this.  Back to redox potential.
Is having the Eh ph at a plants optimum range the Holy Grail of Agronomy?  Testing for ph alone means absolutely nothing.  Sure appears that way to me.

There has to be aggregation of soils to get the Eh ph in the optimal range for plant health.  Aggregation in our oxidized sand was supposed to be impossible.  This is not true.  Growing a diverse orchard floor and spraying with cow manure sprays can aggregate Florida’s oxidized sandy soils.  Aggregation is circular movement or nutrient cycle of plant beneficial nutrient/mineral molecules that are constantly moving and exchanging mineral ions with organic matter minerals and clay minerals.  Constant circular motion moving everything including water in a electrical dance all for the benefit for a plants growth. The result is aggregate soil.  Compost increases the cation exchange potential of a soil especially here in Florida. The aggregates are the result of the cation exchange.  The aggregates also hold chemical pollutants in a stable neutralized form.

The only way to have optimum Eh ph range is with aggregation and organic matter.  Mangos and all plants  grown in soil with the plants optimum Eh ph range will  not succumb or get harmed by plant pathogens like Anthracnose or insect pests.  Sounds like that’s what I want to do.

Organic matter, the plants in the orchard floor, and ruminant manure is how to aggregate Florida’s Oxidized sand and get Eh ph in optimum range there is know known other way.

It’s pretty much free too which is freakin’ amazing.

Our aggregated soil it runs deep during drought.  Simply amazing from Oxidized compacted white sand to this.

Ahh the fruit it never ends. Dry farmed tomato’s, worm free Ruby Guava, unlimited sapodilla.
« Last Edit: March 30, 2020, 01:06:15 PM by Frog Valley Farm »

Frog Valley Farm

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Re: Redox potential
« Reply #9 on: March 31, 2020, 07:02:37 AM »
Using copper and other fungicides and or synthetic fertilizers  which are chemical pollutants are oxidizing accelerators (including slow release) that oxidize plants.  Using them move the plants optimum Eh ph range for the plants health into the optimum Eh ph range For bioaggressors thus weakening the plant and making them prone and susceptible to those bio aggressors (insects, fungal and bacterial diseases).  Spraying agroecological anti oxidant foliar sprays will help the plant stay in the optimal ranges for plant health as long as you have an aerobic aggregated, rich in organic matter, living soil. The OM in the soil is the energy or the battery for the plant to combat disease.  Synthetic fertilizers over oxidizes the plant and lowers the organic matter in the soil which drains your plants battery (energy) low energy makes plants susceptible to bioaggressors.

Plants, humans and soil all need the same stuff to stay healthy. This doesn’t include life killing pollutants or aka plant and human oxidant accelerators. It makes sense to me to use Anti oxidants for my health of course it makes sense for plant health. We are one living nutrient cycling system.  There is no place in the healthy nutrient molecular wheel of life for these chemical pollutants they only pollute, kill and sicken plants, humans the earth. This is why they are classified as chemical pollutants. Healthy plants grow healthy people unhealthy Oxidized plants grown with pollutants grow unhealthy people which is where we are at now eating their oxidizing accelerator laced food.

No wonder we don’t see any fungal damage on our Mangos and can grow vegetables here in Florida without pest problems or powdery mildew.

What you use to grow your plants with you use to feed yourself with and grow your children with. Chemical pollutants used to grow plants oxidizes the plant and they don’t produce the needed antioxidants for plant health.  Using chemical pollutants will raise a plants Redox Potential. Resulting in a plant that is a faster grower, bioaggressor  prone and has a faster death all because the Eh ph are outside optimum levels for plant grwowth..  These pollutant grown plants do not fill your human nutrient cycle needs and eating these pollutant grown foods on soils where the Eh ph is not in the plants optimum range will keep your Eh ph outside what is the optimum levels for your health.  Oxidation is code for weakened immune system, disease and early death.  Consuming foods raised on chemicals raises your Redox potential. Foods eaten that were grown on systems in the optimum Eh ph range will help keep your Eh ph at optimal levels for your health.  Food is compost or energy for people, don’t consume pollutants, don’t oxidize yourself, stay healthy.

“A book” is right what a complicated and fascinating topic.  Seems easy after I processed the information  for weeks while sitting on the dirt amongst the plants.  We all like and need Antioxidants not oxidizers. 

Thanks To all the researchers on this topic as it controls everything and is simply amazing. 


« Last Edit: March 31, 2020, 01:56:40 PM by Frog Valley Farm »

demingcr

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Re: Redox potential
« Reply #10 on: March 31, 2020, 09:41:47 AM »
Everyone is doing it wrong but you and good soil makes things grow good. Got it. Fascinating thread.  ::)
- Colin

sunny

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Re: Redox potential
« Reply #11 on: March 31, 2020, 09:53:43 PM »
Do you also eat the frogs? Here they are on the markets and people love them.

Cookie Monster

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Re: Redox potential
« Reply #12 on: March 31, 2020, 10:02:55 PM »
:D Are they any good? I've had iguana before, was OK.

Do you also eat the frogs? Here they are on the markets and people love them.
Jeff  :-)

SeaWalnut

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Re: Redox potential
« Reply #13 on: March 31, 2020, 10:52:27 PM »
:D Are they any good? I've had iguana before, was OK.

Do you also eat the frogs? Here they are on the markets and people love them.

Ive eaten cooked frogs in a survival training and they arent good.
I got punished because i caught them and i got stung in the foot by the giant toe biter bug.Il never forget that pain for the rest of my life.

Somme people like Frog valley farm have a verry holistic aproach of farming and i think they are closer to nature than most of us.
I like these kind of good people no matter at somme point they could exagerate a little and be verry enthusiastic,there is still a lot to learn from them.

sunny

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Re: Redox potential
« Reply #14 on: April 01, 2020, 12:07:00 AM »
:D Are they any good? I've had iguana before, was OK.

Do you also eat the frogs? Here they are on the markets and people love them.

Yes frogs are nice, we order fresh ones on the market where they chop them up for you...better keep some distance though.

Frog Valley Farm

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Re: Redox potential
« Reply #15 on: April 01, 2020, 05:52:53 AM »
For the curious who enjoy learning and want to help find solutions for what ails your plants, you, the earth.  This free course backs up pretty much everything I wrote and references the research proving this all, except, I put humans in the place of where cows Eh ph was studied.  Eh ph is the holy grail for Agronomists.

https://academyregenag.thinkific.com/collections

When holistic is good, truth is truth and good is good, following the good path is always right, choose consciously! Good energy is real.  It can only be gained thru holistic farming practices.

I’m usually vegetarian but sometime eat fish. I don’t eat frogs but I have...meh.  To your health and the health of your soil.🐸

Thank you Seawalnut.
« Last Edit: April 01, 2020, 10:44:43 AM by Frog Valley Farm »

skhan

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Re: Redox potential
« Reply #16 on: April 01, 2020, 07:11:26 PM »
I read up on the concept of soil aggregate as I was pretty ignorant of the subject.
Pretty cool stuff.
The areas where Ive been constantly chopping and dropping have some nice soil beads and gets small the further from the surface. Not as big as what you shown though.

I'm currently trying to grow out these grasses, gingers and legume bushes everywhere as I'm tired of lugging mulch back and forth.
Hoping to cover most of this bare ground soon.

Unfortunately I'm not allowed to have livestock in my back yard. City rules not mine
I'll be cutting them by hand

Frog Valley Farm

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Re: Redox potential
« Reply #17 on: April 02, 2020, 05:20:59 AM »
I read up on the concept of soil aggregate as I was pretty ignorant of the subject.
Pretty cool stuff.
The areas where Ive been constantly chopping and dropping have some nice soil beads and gets small the further from the surface. Not as big as what you shown though.

I'm currently trying to grow out these grasses, gingers and legume bushes everywhere as I'm tired of lugging mulch back and forth.
Hoping to cover most of this bare ground soon.

Unfortunately I'm not allowed to have livestock in my back yard. City rules not mine
I'll be cutting them by hand

Soil aggregation is soil building.  Soil aggregation is possible on Florida’s Sand.   The only way to build soil on our sand is with living roots, not wood chips or chop and drop, though important, it is not soil building.  Chop and drop and or wood chips is food for microbial life that cycle nutrients that build soil.  The living roots in the orchard floor are where microbial life live.  A biodiverse selection of grasses weeds and legumes is best.  The healthier your orchard floor the healthier your fruit trees.  Lawns mowed short using heavy riding motors will not build soil as they crush the aggregates, compact the soil.  The orchard floor, for ideal aggregation needs to be kept above 4”.  The whole purpose is to enhance conditions for all life.  Spreading the chop and drop around the entire orchard floor and not smothering out any life is key.  Encouraging life and attracting life is important.  Spraying a ruminant based compost tea provide microbial life and nutrient ions to the soil for plant health and all life.  I like spray diluted fresh desi cow dung sprays when it’s dry and my orchard floor has a lot of brown.  This provides the nitrogen ions needed for the microbial life to eat thru the brown and mineralize, this also attracts bugs like flies that attract other bugs like dragonflies that attracts frogs and birds.  It is all about encouraging life.  Too me the orchard floor is most important as i can tell when unhealthy there is a problem.  You must have biodiversity more diversity is more life.  Legumes speed up soil aggregation.

Im not really sure how soil building can be done with a lawn in Florida without growing the lawn out.  I have found that a grown out lawn inter planted with natives, exotics and basically everything possible that you like can pass as an attractive landscape design system.  There is a landscape architect out of Miami that does this for wealthy clients whose name is Raymond Jungles, you can look him up to see his beautiful wild landscapes.  https://www.raymondjungles.com/

The nutrient ions in the soil are the same nutrients molecules in your Brain.  The chemicals used to grow food oxidize plants and then when eaten act like a speed bump for the constant molecular nutrient exchange happening in your brain.  Because of this the chemicals used in growing  most food cause neurological damage to children’s brains. There is no place for these plant growing chemicals in the molecular nutrient cycle which is why they are classified as pollutants. This is why grass fed beef is better for health as chemicals used to grow food are not usually used on pasture and they are not fed chemically grown grains, making for healthier food that most wealthy people eat. 

Having Eh ph at a plants optimal range which is attained thru holistic farming and by eating these holistically grown foods will make the brain work at its optimum levels and may improve your intelligence, this is good.  This is when truth is important and helping all life is good.   Something I see just by reading most posts is desperately needed here.  I have mostly stopped reading most posts here on this forum.

To get your Eh ph at optimum levels for plants you must encourage, harbor and promote all of life.

Practice the 5 principals of soil health to reach your plants optimum Eh ph levels.  It is the only way.

You are what you eat, eat for your intelligence, eat for the future, grow wisely for the benefit of all life.
« Last Edit: April 02, 2020, 06:37:42 AM by Frog Valley Farm »

Frog Valley Farm

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Re: Redox potential
« Reply #18 on: April 07, 2020, 06:06:15 AM »
Olivier Husson agronomist who has studied this.  He’s brilliant.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qZstiT5_gEA

Odenwald

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Re: Redox potential
« Reply #19 on: April 09, 2020, 11:46:05 AM »
The video is a little hard to follow as you only see the slide and not what he is highlighting.  However, I agree with you on regenerating the soil and environment so it is more balanced.  What the plants look like above the soil tells you about the soil health below the surface. 

 

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