The Tropical Fruit Forum
Tropical Fruit => Tropical Fruit Discussion => Topic started by: Julie on November 14, 2020, 09:57:23 PM
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I have a Brewster lychee planted in 2013 from a 3 gal tree from PIN that is now a big tree and looks healthy. It has never bloomed or fruited once. All I have ever done is mulch underneath but I want to try new organic methods to get it to fruit this year. What are the organic alternatives to the recommended fertilizer, foliar spray, iron soil drenches, or other treatments?
Here are some tips I've received so far:
- during the last 2 weeks of Jan and last 2 weeks of Feb, apply 5 ice bags below the lychee 2x per week
- apply ocean water
Thanks so much.
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I have a Brewster lychee planted in 2013 from a 3 gal tree from PIN that is now a big tree and looks healthy. It has never bloomed or fruited once. All I have ever done is mulch underneath but I want to try new organic methods to get it to fruit this year. What are the organic alternatives to the recommended fertilizer, foliar spray, iron soil drenches, or other treatments?
Here are some tips I've received so far:
- during the last 2 weeks of Jan and last 2 weeks of Feb, apply 5 ice bags below the lychee 2x per week
- apply ocean water
Thanks so much.
Forget the ice bags and never heard of ocean water as beneficial *not sure if the salts would even be detrimental).
It needs to be pruned after fruiting or each July. I would also forget organic and use conventional fertilizers and nutrients if you want your lychee to produce in your area
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Warm winters are the problem, I think.
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I am very dedicated to organic methods so I don't want to use conventional practices. I agree that the weather is warmer where I live but I also live very close to farms that have trees that do produce lychees (including organic farms) so it can't be impossible.
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Ocean water :o
Maybe chop it down and top work it with a low chill variety like kaimana.
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I am very dedicated to organic methods so I don't want to use conventional practices. I agree that the weather is warmer where I live but I also live very close to farms that have trees that do produce lychees (including organic farms) so it can't be impossible.
Extremely difficult organically.
Do you prune in mid-summer?
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No I don't, the tree is large now and I have no idea how to prune it correctly. Is pruning key to getting it to fruit? Do you have any resources on this?
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No I don't, the tree is large now and I have no idea how to prune it correctly. Is pruning key to getting it to fruit? Do you have any resources on this?
Yes, you need to prune. If harvesting fruit, you prune when harvesting. If no fruit, then prune around the beginning of July.
You will really miss out from the benefit of proper feeding.
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Come on rob, it can't be that hard to grow lychees organically. Just use organic fertilizers. How difficult is that?
The problem is most likely not enough cold stimulus and not what kind of fertilizers are being used.
What type of lychees are the local farms growing?
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Come on rob, it can't be that hard to grow lychees organically. Just use organic fertilizers. How difficult is that?
The problem is most likely not enough cold stimulus and not what kind of fertilizers are being used.
What type of lychees are the local farms growing?
South Florida growers grow Brewster, Mauritius, Hak Ip and Sweetheart.
Yes, fertilizer/nutrients do seem to play a serious role from the commercial growers. I am friends with one of the larger growers in SFla and his experimenting with fertilizers does seem to have an effect on quantity and quality (especially with the effects of our climate). Lychees can be finicky here.
I honestly dont care if anyone believes or listens, no sweat off my back. Thats what makes this place so great...
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I will also add, with the Erinose Mite, lychees are a waste of time right now...
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I will also add, with the Erinose Mite, lychees are a waste of time right now...
Good point.
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Come on rob, it can't be that hard to grow lychees organically. Just use organic fertilizers. How difficult is that?
The problem is most likely not enough cold stimulus and not what kind of fertilizers are being used.
What type of lychees are the local farms growing?
South Florida growers grow Brewster, Mauritius, Hak Ip and Sweetheart.
Yes, fertilizer/nutrients do seem to play a serious role from the commercial growers. I am friends with one of the larger growers in SFla and his experimenting with fertilizers does seem to have an effect on quantity and quality (especially with the effects of our climate). Lychees can be finicky here.
I honestly dont care if anyone believes or listens, no sweat off my back. Thats what makes this place so great...
Rob you would know more than me I never been to Florida. I just dont think its a requirement to use chemical fertilizers to get lychees or any other fruit. And Im not even an organic purist like some people here.
If you say other people grow Brewsters in Miami, then it must not be the weather. Maybe the pruning? I really don't know but have doubts that the type of fertilizer makes a lot of difference. Based on a lot of comments here posted by others it sounded like lychees dont bloom well because of the lack of cold weather. But I obviously cant speak from experience on that.
I can tell you every sigle one of my lychees and mangos bloom even at very very small size. When it would be preferred they didnt. Its the cold weather here causing it.
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Come on rob, it can't be that hard to grow lychees organically. Just use organic fertilizers. How difficult is that?
The problem is most likely not enough cold stimulus and not what kind of fertilizers are being used.
What type of lychees are the local farms growing?
South Florida growers grow Brewster, Mauritius, Hak Ip and Sweetheart.
Yes, fertilizer/nutrients do seem to play a serious role from the commercial growers. I am friends with one of the larger growers in SFla and his experimenting with fertilizers does seem to have an effect on quantity and quality (especially with the effects of our climate). Lychees can be finicky here.
I honestly dont care if anyone believes or listens, no sweat off my back. Thats what makes this place so great...
Rob you would know more than me I never been to Florida. I just dont think its a requureme t to use chemical fertilizers to get lychees or any other fruit. And Im not even an organic purist like some people here.
If you say other people grow Brewsters in Miami, then it must not be the weather. Maybe the pruning? I really don't know but have doubts that the type of fertilizer makes a lot of difference. Based on a lot of comments here posted by others it sounded like lychees dont bloom well because of the lack of cold weather. But I obviously cant speak from experience on that.
I can tell you every sigle one of my lychees and mangos bloom even at very very small size. When it would be preferred they didnt. Its the cold weather here causing it.
You cant compare any fruit in Florida vs Cali.
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I can
Simple google search for why lychees wont bloom turns up lots of info on them needing some chill hours.
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I can
Simple google search for why lychees wont bloom turns up lots of info on them needing some chill hours.
No, you CANT compare how things grow in Florida vs Cali.
Simple google, huh? Hawaii has chill hours?
I am done here, good luck all.....
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I can
Simple google search for why lychees wont bloom turns up lots of info on them needing some chill hours.
No, you CANT compare how things grow in Florida vs Cali.
Simple google, huh? Hawaii has chill hours?
I am done here, good luck all.....
Dang Rob dont take your toys and leave. Hawaii has low chill type I me tioned before like kaimana.
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The problem is that Brewster needs either a cold snap, or a dry period, preferably both, in winter to fruit well. You could try girdling some branches to help induce flowering through stress. But that usually needs to be done mid september to be effective. You could wait till next year to try that out. I think there are some youtube videos on how to girdle (or cincture) lychees correctly.
Rob, i disagree that lychees are waste of time with erinose mite. We've had the erinose mite here for decades and the trees still fruit fine. They are only a problem when they are completely out of control. It's easy to keep them in check by spraying wettable sulphur. Usually i don't even need to do that.
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No news here.
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If your tree is very large and not fruiting, aside from not enough chill hours, it could also be getting too much Nitrogen, even from organic sources. If you apply organic fertilizers, try something like 0-10-10. Having leaf nitrogen below a specific level, which I don’t currently recall, can tilt the balance more towards blooms instead of vegetative growth.
Lycheesonline.com has some great info on growing lychees and getting them to fruit. As Rob stated, you have to prune your trees at the appropriate time.
http://www.lycheesonline.com/HowToGetTreeToFruit.cfm (http://www.lycheesonline.com/HowToGetTreeToFruit.cfm)
Take a look at when your neighbors harvest their fruit and prune when they harvest their fruit or when you see them pruning, which should be right when they harvest their fruit.
Some geneticists and plant researches like Tracie Matsumoto have hypothesized that Lychees and Longan may have a flower inhibiting gene called “FLC” which is found in Arabidopsis. She also believes that there may be genes or environmental cues that can suppress the FLC gene in Lychees. For Longan, they have already found that firecracker ingredients can force Longan to flower and fruit out of season.
A long practiced technique that has proven effective for promoting flowering and fruiting in Lychees is to girdle a portion of the tree but this practice should only be attempted if you know what you are doing or you only girdle branches that you are not afraid of losing.
More info on encouraging Lychees to produce more predictable crops. I’ve had the pleasure of emailing Francis Zee about Lychees and he is very knowledgeable and passionate about Lychees.
https://agresearchmag.ars.usda.gov/2009/may/lychee (https://agresearchmag.ars.usda.gov/2009/may/lychee)
Lychee production in Australia with lots of info
http://www.fao.org/3/ac684e/ac684e05.htm (http://www.fao.org/3/ac684e/ac684e05.htm)
Strategy for Kaimana Lychee in Hawaii
https://hilo.hawaii.edu/panr/writing.php?id=254 (https://hilo.hawaii.edu/panr/writing.php?id=254)
Simon
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I almost forgot, while doing some research on lychees about 15-20 years ago, I read in an article that they found a specific variety of endo, ecto or Arbuscular mycorrhizal fungi species that was associated with Lychee trees that tended to fruit consistently and heavily. I vaguely recall the organism name as xxxxx chinensis. The organism seems to be ubiquitous in the environment and has been found in air layers that were created with Sphagnum peat moss as the substrate.
It wouldn’t hurt to talk with a neighbor or farm with productive lychee trees and kindly asking if you could get some soil from the rhizosphere of their productive trees. You can then use that soil in an attempt to inoculate your trees roots with this beneficial organism. I’m guessing that most mature lychee trees in Florida probably already have this organism but it couldn’t hurt in case your tree doesn’t have this organism yet.
Simon
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Ocean water? At what specific gravity (brackish vs real saltwater)..? I read lychees are sensitive to high levels of dissolved salts..
Also someone recommended top working it and I don’t disagree but I have also read it’s hard to graft lychees which is one reason why they are normally marcotted
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I would not recommend ocean water because the concentrations of the specific minerals are unknown and too much salt will burn your trees, especially Lychees. Out of all the fruit trees I grow, Lychees are the most salt sensitive.
The original poster is probably referring to the high mineral content of most sea water but it’s safer to give your trees nutrients with known concentrations.
Simon
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The ocean water idea was a tip given to me by a local grower, I've never tried it. I only use mulch. Does anyone have experience with the ice bag suggestion I got? It makes sense since the tree needs to be chilled right?
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If your tree is very large and not fruiting, aside from not enough chill hours, it could also be getting too much Nitrogen, even from organic sources. If you apply organic fertilizers, try something like 0-10-10. Having leaf nitrogen below a specific level, which I don’t currently recall, can tilt the balance more towards blooms instead of vegetative growth.
Lycheesonline.com has some great info on growing lychees and getting them to fruit. As Rob stated, you have to prune your trees at the appropriate time.
http://www.lycheesonline.com/HowToGetTreeToFruit.cfm (http://www.lycheesonline.com/HowToGetTreeToFruit.cfm)
Take a look at when your neighbors harvest their fruit and prune when they harvest their fruit or when you see them pruning, which should be right when they harvest their fruit.
Some geneticists and plant researches like Tracie Matsumoto have hypothesized that Lychees and Longan may have a flower inhibiting gene called “FLC” which is found in Arabidopsis. She also believes that there may be genes or environmental cues that can suppress the FLC gene in Lychees. For Longan, they have already found that firecracker ingredients can force Longan to flower and fruit out of season.
A long practiced technique that has proven effective for promoting flowering and fruiting in Lychees is to girdle a portion of the tree but this practice should only be attempted if you know what you are doing or you only girdle branches that you are not afraid of losing.
More info on encouraging Lychees to produce more predictable crops. I’ve had the pleasure of emailing Francis Zee about Lychees and he is very knowledgeable and passionate about Lychees.
https://agresearchmag.ars.usda.gov/2009/may/lychee (https://agresearchmag.ars.usda.gov/2009/may/lychee)
Lychee production in Australia with lots of info
http://www.fao.org/3/ac684e/ac684e05.htm (http://www.fao.org/3/ac684e/ac684e05.htm)
Strategy for Kaimana Lychee in Hawaii
https://hilo.hawaii.edu/panr/writing.php?id=254 (https://hilo.hawaii.edu/panr/writing.php?id=254)
Simon
All good info. I would just add that you have to be careful also at what times you apply nitrogen. You don't want to apply nitrogen in winter or spring. That makes the tree flush out and discourages flowering. Lychees are a bit tricky to get to fruit. So the best advice really is to read up on it and get informed.
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I am very dedicated to organic methods so I don't want to use conventional practices. I agree that the weather is warmer where I live but I also live very close to farms that have trees that do produce lychees (including organic farms) so it can't be impossible.
Extremely difficult organically.
Do you prune in mid-summer?
Then how did the Asians go about it thousands of years ago? I do realize they’re fully adapted to Asian climate and soil but there must be another factor that provokes production like someone else said possibly certain fungi
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I am very dedicated to organic methods so I don't want to use conventional practices. I agree that the weather is warmer where I live but I also live very close to farms that have trees that do produce lychees (including organic farms) so it can't be impossible.
Extremely difficult organically.
Do you prune in mid-summer?
Then how did the Asians go about it thousands of years ago? I do realize they’re fully adapted to Asian climate and soil but there must be another factor that provokes production like someone else said possibly certain fungi
If I'm not mistaken in Asia there are more pronounced wet/dry sesasons that trigger flowering opposed to cold in FL.
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You’re right, monsoons and whatnot
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Seems like this guy needs a protocol to follow..
Lots of heavy mulch with a variety of ingredients, mature soil inoculate, Lots of irrigation during part of the year (summer only?), only apply organic fertilizer high in N during part of the year (again, only summer? And I’d recommend seaweed extract or whatever they call it), pruning and or girdling in mid-July, spray for mites, maybe add ice bags in the dead of winter, and a teaspoon of ocean water LOL
Also I’m surprised it’s a Brewster that won’t produce since I read so much that they are one of the top producers in yield and consistency (someone correct me if I’m wrong). And one more thing are your tree’s leaves indicating a lack of any nutrients? Does the new growth look veiny and chlorotic?
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Does anyone have experience with the ice bag suggestion I got? It makes sense since the tree needs to be chilled right?
It does make sense.
You should try it.
Put some temperature sensors deep into the root zone.
Add ice to maintain temperature drop for a week.
Too cold and wet could kill the tree.
If your tree was smaller you could cover with plastic and run A/C into it at night.
Just need a few nights.
Or break a rule and try this
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/322288573_Effect_of_Foliar_Spray_of_Chemicals_on_Flowering_and_Fruiting_in_Litchi (https://www.researchgate.net/publication/322288573_Effect_of_Foliar_Spray_of_Chemicals_on_Flowering_and_Fruiting_in_Litchi)
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Here’s some info I found from a lychee grower:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1918599125074126/permalink/2188331551434214/ (https://www.facebook.com/groups/1918599125074126/permalink/2188331551434214/)
Copied from Facebook post:
“ Fertilizing Lychee explained .
1. avoid using in ground or on ground fertilizers ( especialy graular ) as the release is governed by water amounts not fertilizer amount ( too much will hurt it , too little poor results )
2. Lychee prefer to absorb their fertiliser through leafs rather than roots
3. use liquid fertilizers desighned for leaf absorbsion they love the stuff & you will see results in days . ( also exess rain will reduce amounts of fertilizer not increase so no root burn )
4. mulch is only good to insulate the soil , the results you get are from reduced hydro / temerature shock not nutrients delivered
5. test your water needs to PH neutral ( same as rain water )
6. fertilizing after fruit formation is done to help set fruit , the flip side is if you over water the fruit will split on the tree .
PS .. if you are growing in pots feel your pot during the day if hot wrap in tin foil
use bigger pots , lychee roots grow down across the botton then up the sides before filling middle of pot ( compared to growing out evenly from middle ) it will give you stronger roots .
during flowering do not water over leaves or let rain fall on flowers the nitrogen will burn the flowers resulting poor fruit yeild , up to nature on the big scale , acheivable with pots or tarpolan
NEED TO CONSIDER
fertilizer & weed killer are the SAME product used in different concentrations they kill by over fertilisation ! you can dilute the poisons & use as fertiliser , so too much rain or watering turns your surface / granular fertilizer into poison .
all lychee stock are clones & will only grow only aswell as the parent tree & will have all the sam genetic faults , select stock from local trees & select from healthy fast growing trees . Be warned most growers keep the best stock for themselves & only sell the 2nds
you need male & female tree's for fruit they may be the same sex or all from the same tree ,. if buying from the same place leave 3 months between puchases they have to be re-potted , so gaurenteed different parent plant , or get grower to mark which tree they came from , they will understand why & be happy to do it
the root base will only grow to the size of the shaded area under the tree this is why mulching around small tree's works until canopy develops , if you leave it 2 years before pruning it will produce more fruit on the 3rd year than the 3 years combined & have larger root base
on larger tree's the same results ( more growth / more fruit ) can be acheived without fertiliser & with better long term results by thrashing tree's with 1 inch link chain !
Hope this helps”
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Lycheelust, I don’t completely agree with what you posted from that Facebook member. Although some of the information is relevant, some of it is absolutely incorrect. The statement that weed killer is the same as fertilizer is very misleading.
The grower was probably trying to say that over fertilization of Lychee trees will give you a similar outcome as if you used weed killer. I myself have killed several lychee trees trying to push their growth with fertilizers.
You also don’t need male and female trees for fruit. A single Lychee tree will produce male, female and hermaphrodite flowers. The inflorescence usually comes in cycles. The cycles consist of flowers that that are mostly male, mostly female, mostly hermaphrodite or mixed flowers.
By having different varieties of Lychees, there is a better chance of cross pollination which will increase yields. A single tree can produce fruit on its own.
In China, the practice is to put air layers on fruitful parts of trees. Certain parts of a tree may be more or less fruitful and farmers try to air layer sections of the tree that have proven fruitful. Some farmers believe that air layers placed on sections of the tree that produce a higher percentage of chicken tongue seeds will continue to produce a higher percentage of chicken tongue seeds.
Leo Manuel had a pretty famous Brewster Lychee that produced bumper crops of some of the best tasting, super sweet and super intense rose/lychee scent that you could imagine. I absolutely hated Brewster Lychees before I sampled fruit from his tree because the majority of Brewster fruit had huge seeds and only a scant amount of flesh.
From a regular Brewster tree, you will find approximately 5-10% of the fruit to have chicken tongues seeds. The tree that Leo had produced fruit with approximately 80-90% chicken tongue seeds. Many people from the CRFG and this forum have sampled fruit from his tree and everyone was amazed at the production and quality of fruit from his unique tree. Unfortunately his large tree died about 5-6 years ago but not before I removed several air layers from it.
I distributed the air layers to several members of this forum and hope they are still doing well.
Simon
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What did Leo’s tree die from?
I assume like you were saying his famous Brewster tree was an air layer off another Brewster from a part of that tree which produced a lot of good chicken tongues??
Can this phenomenon be replicated with other fruit trees, or does it all depend on the species?
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What did Leo’s tree die from?
I assume like you were saying his famous Brewster tree was an air layer off another Brewster from a part of that tree which produced a lot of good chicken tongues??
Can this phenomenon be replicated with other fruit trees, or does it all depend on the species?
I never sent out samples to the lab so I don’t know exactly what it was that killed the tree but the disease affected the vascular tissue. It causes the leaves to dry up and stay on the tree. Leo also has this same disease kill his large Sweetheart Lychee tree. I also lost one of my Sweetheart trees to this disease but I was also able to save one of my Sweetheart lychee trees by catching the disease early and immediately treating the tree via foliar feeding with a systemic fungicide called Abound.
Simon
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Here’s some info I found from a lychee grower:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1918599125074126/permalink/2188331551434214/ (https://www.facebook.com/groups/1918599125074126/permalink/2188331551434214/)
Copied from Facebook post:
“ Fertilizing Lychee explained .
1. avoid using in ground or on ground fertilizers ( especialy graular ) as the release is governed by water amounts not fertilizer amount ( too much will hurt it , too little poor results )
2. Lychee prefer to absorb their fertiliser through leafs rather than roots
3. use liquid fertilizers desighned for leaf absorbsion they love the stuff & you will see results in days . ( also exess rain will reduce amounts of fertilizer not increase so no root burn )
4. mulch is only good to insulate the soil , the results you get are from reduced hydro / temerature shock not nutrients delivered
5. test your water needs to PH neutral ( same as rain water )
6. fertilizing after fruit formation is done to help set fruit , the flip side is if you over water the fruit will split on the tree .
PS .. if you are growing in pots feel your pot during the day if hot wrap in tin foil
use bigger pots , lychee roots grow down across the botton then up the sides before filling middle of pot ( compared to growing out evenly from middle ) it will give you stronger roots .
during flowering do not water over leaves or let rain fall on flowers the nitrogen will burn the flowers resulting poor fruit yeild , up to nature on the big scale , acheivable with pots or tarpolan
NEED TO CONSIDER
fertilizer & weed killer are the SAME product used in different concentrations they kill by over fertilisation ! you can dilute the poisons & use as fertiliser , so too much rain or watering turns your surface / granular fertilizer into poison .
all lychee stock are clones & will only grow only aswell as the parent tree & will have all the sam genetic faults , select stock from local trees & select from healthy fast growing trees . Be warned most growers keep the best stock for themselves & only sell the 2nds
you need male & female tree's for fruit they may be the same sex or all from the same tree ,. if buying from the same place leave 3 months between puchases they have to be re-potted , so gaurenteed different parent plant , or get grower to mark which tree they came from , they will understand why & be happy to do it
the root base will only grow to the size of the shaded area under the tree this is why mulching around small tree's works until canopy develops , if you leave it 2 years before pruning it will produce more fruit on the 3rd year than the 3 years combined & have larger root base
on larger tree's the same results ( more growth / more fruit ) can be acheived without fertiliser & with better long term results by thrashing tree's with 1 inch link chain !
Hope this helps”
I don't know who this FB poster is, but as Simon pointed out, a lot of his information is either misleading or completely incorrect.
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Lycheelust, I don’t completely agree with what you posted from that Facebook member. Although some of the information is relevant, some of it is absolutely incorrect. The statement that weed killer is the same as fertilizer is very misleading.
The grower was probably trying to say that over fertilization of Lychee trees will give you a similar outcome as if you used weed killer. I myself have killed several lychee trees trying to push their growth with fertilizers.
You also don’t need male and female trees for fruit. A single Lychee tree will produce male, female and hermaphrodite flowers. The inflorescence usually comes in cycles. The cycles consist of flowers that that are mostly male, mostly female, mostly hermaphrodite or mixed flowers.
By having different varieties of Lychees, there is a better chance of cross pollination which will increase yields. A single tree can produce fruit on its own.
In China, the practice is to put air layers on fruitful parts of trees. Certain parts of a tree may be more or less fruitful and farmers try to air layer sections of the tree that have proven fruitful. Some farmers believe that air layers placed on sections of the tree that produce a higher percentage of chicken tongue seeds will continue to produce a higher percentage of chicken tongue seeds.
Leo Manuel had a pretty famous Brewster Lychee that produced bumper crops of some of the best tasting, super sweet and super intense rose/lychee scent that you could imagine. I absolutely hated Brewster Lychees before I sampled fruit from his tree because the majority of Brewster fruit had huge seeds and only a scant amount of flesh.
From a regular Brewster tree, you will find approximately 5-10% of the fruit to have chicken tongues seeds. The tree that Leo had produced fruit with approximately 80-90% chicken tongue seeds. Many people from the CRFG and this forum have sampled fruit from his tree and everyone was amazed at the production and quality of fruit from his unique tree. Unfortunately his large tree died about 5-6 years ago but not before I removed several air layers from it.
I distributed the air layers to several members of this forum and hope they are still doing well.
Simon
Yeah I get that. I think the foliar feeding, mulching, restricting fertilizer, and the thrashing to stress induce fruiting could be useful? I’ve seen people use dwarfing tools on branches to induce fruiting. Also I didn’t know that’s how they could improve a variety via air layering. Will you be releasing any more air layers? If so, Could I reserve one? 😃
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No news here
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Frog valley Farm, you are correct, this thread is about organic lychee management. I was simply explaining how I was able to save my tree and I’m not trying to push Abound. I’m not an industrial grower, just a small backyard grower.
Simon
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What did Leo’s tree die from?
I assume like you were saying his famous Brewster tree was an air layer off another Brewster from a part of that tree which produced a lot of good chicken tongues??
Can this phenomenon be replicated with other fruit trees, or does it all depend on the species?
I never sent out samples to the lab so I don’t know exactly what it was that killed the tree but the disease affected the vascular tissue. It causes the leaves to dry up and stay on the tree. Leo also has this same disease kill his large Sweetheart Lychee tree. I also lost one of my Sweetheart trees to this disease but I was also able to save one of my Sweetheart lychee trees by catching the disease early and immediately treating the tree via foliar feeding with a systemic fungicide called Abound.
Simon
Isn’t this a Organic thread? I do not know why you industrial growers/polluters are giving any advice about organic growing or management. Yes if you use chemicals and pollutants on your trees your trees will be more susceptible to disease, which is why you start pest and disease threads to post on. And please do not give me the crap response “I grew organic for so many years, it didn’t work”, yeah, because you didn’t know how to do it then, and you still don’t!
As an organic grower and consumer, Abound, is a horrible thing to use, especially since your audience mostly have small yards and a large percent of the neighbors are trying to be organic. I don’t care how careful you think you are with it, just by the fact you choose to use it on food you eat, shows you are not. Maybe this pollutant should be pushed on a Lychee Pests and disease problems thread not about organic growing. Pollutants cause disease in plants and humans, science has proven this and the worst pollutants are the fungicides
Growing Lychees organically in Florida is easy. If you are in a warmer area maybe it’s not the best tree to grow. At least lychees are cheap when in season.
Together we can boost intelligence with clean nutrient dense food.
I do agree with your principals, organic and all. I use Spinosad and neem oil whenever I can, and use only mulch and muck stews when possible, but sometimes that just doesn’t cut it. I do have to fertilize a bit with synthetic fertilizers when I see new growth getting chlorotic on some trees, which most of the minerals in those products (apart from N) are rock derived anyway right?
And dude you really think that growing organic can fully prevent destructive diseases and viruses like citrus HLB and fire blight?
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No news here
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I understand that you follow some of the strictest guidelines but are you saying USDA Organic products do not use copper? There are plenty of copper products approved for use under National Organic Program (NOP) standards. Are there NOP approved products that cannot be used on crops that are certified USDA Organic?
Page 81 of the OMRI guide has a full page of copper fungicides listed that meet NOP standards.
https://www.omri.org/sites/default/files/opl_pdf/CropByCategory-NOP.pdf (https://www.omri.org/sites/default/files/opl_pdf/CropByCategory-NOP.pdf)
If your using copper not organic, other fungicides, check.
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No news here.
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The organic certifying agencies have always made some exceptions when good organic alternatives are not available, or not easily available, such as with copper fungicides, and with some chelated trace elements. But this doesn't mean any farmer has to use them, only that they're given the option of doing so. And as already has been pointed out, this option is often limited as to time and strength of application.
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Extensive monoculture of virtually all crops has caused many of these diseases to proliferate without check in my humble opinion, forcing many of us growers to have to use more and more extreme pesticide protocols. Why can’t ppl be happy with a mixed bag of random orange varieties and not just a bag of Valencia or navels for instance
That and foreign disease introduction
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Brewster is not really chen zsi like people think but it a poor bearing cold lover 'water lychee'. Maybe it bears better in cooler areas. Do you ever get mins below 45f or even down to 40f for a few hours each winter? Mulch is a reflection of the plants derived from and thus the soil that they grew in. Micronutrient deficiencies are common.
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You say Brewster is a cold lover. I realize most lychees can get into the 20s (F). How cold can a Brewster get without being burnt to the ground?
Because I recently bought 5 Brewster trees on clearance, and my area routinely has 9b and 9a winters, but occasionally even slightly colder drops than just 9a (once or twice a decade a brief drop to 19 F).. so.. do you think these will survive in the right microclimate? And should I plant them near the bank of the stream or on higher elevation where the sand is drier (both areas have partial oak canopy)?
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Chill factor is certainly not an issue and excess N and water prior to flowering would not help. Getting enough P, K, Mg, Ca and Zn is worth thinking about and actually being too cold might be an issue. I could only guess on minimum temp tolerance but Brewster is a bit like wai chee in being at the cooler end of the spectrum as apposed to say Mauritius or Kwai mai pink (Bos 3) which are heat lovers.
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Kiamana has not had a noticeably lower chill requirement in my experience. At least not what we have by that name in Florida. Its quality, though is excellent.
Dang Rob dont take your toys and leave. Hawaii has low chill type I me tioned before like kaimana.
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You say Brewster is a cold lover. I realize most lychees can get into the 20s (F). How cold can a Brewster get without being burnt to the ground?
Because I recently bought 5 Brewster trees on clearance, and my area routinely has 9b and 9a winters, but occasionally even slightly colder drops than just 9a (once or twice a decade a brief drop to 19 F).. so.. do you think these will survive in the right microclimate? And should I plant them near the bank of the stream or on higher elevation where the sand is drier (both areas have partial oak canopy)?
A lot of that depends on the size of the tree, how long the cold lasts, and the conditions leading up to the freeze. The larger and more dormant the tree the more it can take. 32 can kill a 3gal size tree, but typically won't even burn a leaf on a 20' monster. When we had 19 here in Sebring I am told that mature Brewster trees were frozen back to the main scaffold limbs and trunk.
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Kiamana has not had a noticeably lower chill requirement in my experience. At least not what we have by that name in Florida. Its quality, though is excellent.
Dang Rob dont take your toys and leave. Hawaii has low chill type I me tioned before like kaimana.
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Kaimana fruits here with zero chill. So either you don't have the real deal or your observations are off.
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Haak yip is a heat loving early bearer with low chill requirements and its daughter kaimana needs even less chill. Maybe the least of all. Brewster has identity issues and likes it much cooler.
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A lot of that depends on the size of the tree, how long the cold lasts, and the conditions leading up to the freeze. The larger and more dormant the tree the more it can take. 32 can kill a 3gal size tree, but typically won't even burn a leaf on a 20' monster. When we had 19 here in Sebring I am told that mature Brewster trees were frozen back to the main scaffold limbs and trunk.
Interesting! Just the info I needed actually.
You’re right about dormancy. Last year the first cold event happened where it went from 80 to 40 F within 6 hours, with no acclimation period before hand. That scalded a couple leaves on almost every lychee seedling (although it didn’t kill any).
Then as the winter progressed dormancy must have kicked in because it hit 27 F several times and 30F a few more times (about 10 light freezes total). Interestingly none of these actual freezes had any negative effects on any of the lychees, not even the 3 inch seedlings (because by then they were all acclimated).. so your info about 32 F killing a 3 gallon sapling I must laugh at. Lol
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Haak yip is a heat loving early bearer with low chill requirements and its daughter kaimana needs even less chill. Maybe the least of all. Brewster has identity issues and likes it much cooler.
???
I heard haap yik (the chicken tongue blackleaf lychee) takes the cold better than almost any other lychee..??
so why would it’s chill requirements be in the lower tier?
Isn’t sweetheart also a descendent of haap yik?
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And even though at 19F when the mature trees were burnt back to major limbs, they did sprout new growth from those limbs though, right?
Also do you know the duration of that particular freeze??
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Haak yip is a heat loving early bearer with low chill requirements and its daughter kaimana needs even less chill. Maybe the least of all. Brewster has identity issues and likes it much cooler.
The pink Kwai mi (B-3) is a much more consistent bearing lychee here. So would guess it has even less chill requirement than Kaimana.
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At this point I wish I had planted a better variety. I'm planting a Mauritius lychee tree now and I wish I had just planted this variety instead but I wasn't educated about it 7 years ago. Mauritius lychee is the best performing lychee in South FL or at least that's what all the commercial growers have planted here. We love Mauritius lychees so much it's worth it to plant a tree, even though it will not produce well and also take up a lot of space.
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I have 18 trees lychee trees with 8 different varieties planted. I got 10 pounds of fruit last year. Based on the current tree size, I could be getting a few hundred pounds. They flowered well but there were lots of males and rainy weather during flowering caused fungus issues. I have a wild honey bee hive squatting in my barn so pollination was not an issue. My longan trees produced even less. If I could do it over, I would take a different approach. It is relatively easy to buy lychees from local growers. They don't taste better when you grow them yourself. I would recommend using the yard space for something that cannot be easily sourced locally, tastes better when home grown, or minimally is consistently productive.
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Oscar Kwai mai pink and tai so Mauritius are at the limits of bearing before there isn't enough chill and kaimana is a 3rd variety starting muscle in at this frontier. Going upslope or south more varieties kick in and heading north no varieties fruit or rarely do.Rain during flowering like for mangoes is a perennial issue.
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I agree with you but I have to have at least 1 lychee on my property since it's one of our favorite fruits and not easy to find organic here and also super expensive now. I agree space is at a premium with my property since I don't have acres of land. It's definitely a mystery why local growers can grow lychees here but they don't produce well in the home landscape. I will try some of the suggestions here.
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A lot of that depends on the size of the tree, how long the cold lasts, and the conditions leading up to the freeze. The larger and more dormant the tree the more it can take. 32 can kill a 3gal size tree, but typically won't even burn a leaf on a 20' monster. When we had 19 here in Sebring I am told that mature Brewster trees were frozen back to the main scaffold limbs and trunk.
Interesting! Just the info I needed actually.
You’re right about dormancy. Last year the first cold event happened where it went from 80 to 40 F within 6 hours, with no acclimation period before hand. That scalded a couple leaves on almost every lychee seedling (although it didn’t kill any).
Then as the winter progressed dormancy must have kicked in because it hit 27 F several times and 30F a few more times (about 10 light freezes total). Interestingly none of these actual freezes had any negative effects on any of the lychees, not even the 3 inch seedlings (because by then they were all acclimated).. so your info about 32 F killing a 3 gallon sapling I must laugh at. Lol
That particular freeze happened in the '70s, so I was not actually alive then but it came to mind because it had the same low as what you mentioned. But, this is what I rememember from what the "old timers" have told me. We had 1" of snow in Sebring, there was freezing weather on 3-4 consecutive nights, and it was still 28 at noon the day after we had the 19 degree low. Basically all the young trees were killed and the trees I mentioned being frozen back to main limbs and trunk were likely 30-40 years old at the time and were all near lakes. No one planted lychees for a long time. :-\
Also, we actually start protective measures for our trees when the forecasted temp is 38. There are many reasons for this, but this post is too long already. I'll just say that nothing reduces your faith in the weather man like growing tropical fruit trees in central Florida. I have seen it all.
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Haak yip is a heat loving early bearer with low chill requirements and its daughter kaimana needs even less chill. Maybe the least of all. Brewster has identity issues and likes it much cooler.
The pink Kwai mi (B-3) is a much more consistent bearing lychee here. So would guess it has even less chill requirement than Kaimana.
Oscar and Mike,
Thank you for your comments on Kiamana. It helps confirm something we had suspected for a while now. All of our Kiamana were in a single row that gets pretty wet. It sounds like the failure to perform is the reault of not drying out sufficiently durring the dormant period more than the chill factor. We have planted more on high ground (based on that thinking) and will see how they fare.
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I agree with you but I have to have at least 1 lychee on my property since it's one of our favorite fruits and not easy to find organic here and also super expensive now. I agree space is at a premium with my property since I don't have acres of land. It's definitely a mystery why local growers can grow lychees here but they don't produce well in the home landscape. I will try some of the suggestions here.
Commercial growers have difficulties fruiting lychees also, not just home growers. You are just seeing the fruits at market from the few succesful ones and not hearing about all the failures. Lychees are tricky to get to fruit because they are not a well adapted plant outside of its home range and its preferred climate. Most plants are able to adapt and extend their range. Weeds are extremely succesful at this. But a few plants are not. I planted a lot of lychees in my orchard because it's my favorite fruit. Probably if i had known how difficult they are to fruit i would have only planted one tree. In the very many years i've been here have only had one bumper crop with many hundreds of pounds. All the other years it's just a trickle.
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North Florida usually is more dry in the winter.. I wonder if with slight climate change they may produce more here..
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If you do a google search for "Wen-Hsun Chen Culture of the Lychee", you will find an article that is full of the kind of information you need. Mr. Chen mentions among other things how his family gave their lychee to Rev. Brewster who brought it to Florida. Apparently the variety is over 1,000 years old! (Heirloom lychees anyone? Lol!) He also mentions that he was surprised to learn that lychees did not grow in Gainesville because his native town of Hinghwh had lower winter lows (even though its latitude corresponds more closely to Homestead). He claims to have seen lychee trees survive a low of 9 degrees in Hinghwh (although they did not fruit for two years afterward). He attributes this REMARKABLE feat to the degree of dormancy the trees achieve in China vs. in Florida. Its a fascinating read even if you don't agree with everything he says.