Pickering versus Cogshall

[mangomandan]

My sister has asked me to recommend a mango tree for her yard. She is in a borderline area just north of St. Pete, and may need to protect the tree from cold several nights a year.   She and her husband are not spring chickens.

I tasted Cogshall for the first time this year and liked it very much. I've tasted one Pickering so far, but it was not representative, coming from a tiny tree that was stressed by carrying two fruit. It was bland.

For good flavor, relative ease of care, and hopefully some precocity, which variety should I give her?   

[Sleepdoc]

My vote goes for Pickering.

[FlyingFoxFruits]

cogshall might win some folks over for having a better flavor..and maybe slightly larger fruits.

Pickering seems even more compact and disease resistant than very dwarf and hearty cogshall.

maybe make a cocktail tree (or have a friend make u one)!! I'm trying to make some Pickering/cogshall cocktails.

that way u can have your cake and eat it 2...

[Squam256]

I think Pickering tastes better than Cogshall. Its also a "dwarfer" tree and seems to be more productive.

Cogshall is a really good mango though so it would hardly be a 'mistake' to plant one.

[puglvr1]

That's a tough call...I've had Cogshall for several years. Pickering is very new to me, they are both very good!

Can't go wrong with either one...have fun making the decision 

[johnb51]

How much smaller (more dwarfish) is Pickering than ANGIE?  (Sorry--I have no interest in Cogshall.)  What's the closest they could be side by side in the ground?

[FlyingFoxFruits]

never heard of Angie..how dwarf? how's disease resistance and fruit taste?

I would think I'd have seen a tree by now, or heard good things about this tree?

Pickering seems to be as small as Julie or ice-cream, maybe a tad more vigorous.

[johnb51]

2012 Curator's Choice Selections:
'Angie' (Florida)
'Angie' was selected for home garden and estate agriculture in South Florida due to its compact growth habit, disease tolerance and overall fruit quality. The fruit are 400 g, oblong and saffron yellow with Indian orange blush on the sun-exposed shoulders. The skin is smooth and without visible lenticels. The flesh is tangerine orange and without fiber. The flavor is classified in the 'Alphonso' class of mangos with a deep sweetness and sophisticated profile rich in apricot. The disease tolerance is excellent and given its early season it often can be harvested before the rainy season in South Florida. The tree is semi-dwarf and highly manageable with annual pruning. Size can be maintained at or below 3 m with consistent production. The tree is easy to grow if nitrogen is kept low and the tree is not over-watered or grown in soils prone to flooding or with a high watertable. 

Okay...so it looks like it's a larger tree than Pickering!

[bsbullie]

If you only tasted one Pickering, how do you know it wasn't representative ?

Yes, Angie is a larger tree than Pickering.  While Pickering has good attributes in its tree size, I would have to go with Cogshall for being a better quality mango.  Personally, I think Pickering gets a little bit of over recognition due to its dwarf growth habit.  While a well ripened Pickering is a good to very good fruit, it is not what I would consider excellent.  A well grown, well ripened Cogshall can be excellent.

Will your sister be able to keep it pruned or is it basically plant it and let it grow ?  What size tree are you looking to buy as this would make a difference.  Also, where would you buy it, again, this would also make a difference.

[FlyingFoxFruits]

I'd think you could taste one fruit and know it wasn't representative of the cultivar...if the description is sweet, and it was bland...then usually the fruit was substandard, and it's not just a craving for a sweeter mango.

Pickering is very nice, but has no coconut flavor...I find the southern blush fruits from Ensey's place are one of the best mangoes I've had...even better than other southern blushes that tasted nice and sweet last year from colorfield farms mango festival.

the southern blush at ensey's had a distinct coconut taste...unlike any other mango I've had.

[Tropicalgrower89]

I'd think you could taste one fruit and know it wasn't representative of the cultivar...if the description is sweet, and it was bland...then usually the fruit was substandard, and it's not just a craving for a sweeter mango.

Pickering is very nice, but has no coconut flavor...I find the southern blush fruits from Ensey's place are one of the best mangoes I've had...even better than other southern blushes that tasted nice and sweet last year from colorfield farms mango festival.

the southern blush at ensey's had a distinct coconut taste...unlike any other mango I've had.

The soil can play a major role in how a particular variety of mango tastes. Same goes to any type of mango. Maybe pickering can have some sort of a coconut flavor if grown in a certain type of soil.

[FlyingFoxFruits]

many people I've talked to say that pickering has coconut taste.

None for me so far.

I have only eaten from 2 trees of 10 pickerings I have..and even those differed quite a bit.

I'd think you could taste one fruit and know it wasn't representative of the cultivar...if the description is sweet, and it was bland...then usually the fruit was substandard, and it's not just a craving for a sweeter mango.

Pickering is very nice, but has no coconut flavor...I find the southern blush fruits from Ensey's place are one of the best mangoes I've had...even better than other southern blushes that tasted nice and sweet last year from colorfield farms mango festival.

the southern blush at ensey's had a distinct coconut taste...unlike any other mango I've had.

The soil can play a major role in how a particular variety of mango tastes. Same goes to any type of mango. Maybe pickering can have some sort of a coconut flavor if grown in a certain type of soil.

[Tropicalgrower89]

many people I've talked to say that pickering has coconut taste.

None for me so far.

I have only eaten from 2 trees of 10 pickerings I have..and even those differed quite a bit.

I'd think you could taste one fruit and know it wasn't representative of the cultivar...if the description is sweet, and it was bland...then usually the fruit was substandard, and it's not just a craving for a sweeter mango.

Pickering is very nice, but has no coconut flavor...I find the southern blush fruits from Ensey's place are one of the best mangoes I've had...even better than other southern blushes that tasted nice and sweet last year from colorfield farms mango festival.

the southern blush at ensey's had a distinct coconut taste...unlike any other mango I've had.

The soil can play a major role in how a particular variety of mango tastes. Same goes to any type of mango. Maybe pickering can have some sort of a coconut flavor if grown in a certain type of soil.

Can it be that one budwood was from a "sport" branch hence the difference in flavor among different trees of the same variety?

[bsbullie]

many people I've talked to say that pickering has coconut taste.

None for me so far.

I have only eaten from 2 trees of 10 pickerings I have..and even those differed quite a bit.

I'd think you could taste one fruit and know it wasn't representative of the cultivar...if the description is sweet, and it was bland...then usually the fruit was substandard, and it's not just a craving for a sweeter mango.

Pickering is very nice, but has no coconut flavor...I find the southern blush fruits from Ensey's place are one of the best mangoes I've had...even better than other southern blushes that tasted nice and sweet last year from colorfield farms mango festival.

the southern blush at ensey's had a distinct coconut taste...unlike any other mango I've had.

The soil can play a major role in how a particular variety of mango tastes. Same goes to any type of mango. Maybe pickering can have some sort of a coconut flavor if grown in a certain type of soil.

Can it be that one budwood was from a "sport" branch hence the difference in flavor among different trees of the same variety?
 

[Squam256]

many people I've talked to say that pickering has coconut taste.

None for me so far.

I have only eaten from 2 trees of 10 pickerings I have..and even those differed quite a bit.

I'd think you could taste one fruit and know it wasn't representative of the cultivar...if the description is sweet, and it was bland...then usually the fruit was substandard, and it's not just a craving for a sweeter mango.

Pickering is very nice, but has no coconut flavor...I find the southern blush fruits from Ensey's place are one of the best mangoes I've had...even better than other southern blushes that tasted nice and sweet last year from colorfield farms mango festival.

the southern blush at ensey's had a distinct coconut taste...unlike any other mango I've had.

The soil can play a major role in how a particular variety of mango tastes. Same goes to any type of mango. Maybe pickering can have some sort of a coconut flavor if grown in a certain type of soil.

Can it be that one budwood was from a "sport" branch hence the difference in flavor among different trees of the same variety?
 

He's referring to a mutation (e.g. Davis Haden). This is rare and unlikely though.

[FlyingFoxFruits]

Alexi,

I think so...I have two fruiting pickerings from Zill that are both Pickering, but one makes a slightly different shape fruit...one is shaped like Carrie, the other has a strange cleft dimple thingamajig...let me' see if I can find pics of what I'm blathering about.

I've fed my Pickering to someone who's had them before, and they told me it wasn't Pickering...this could all be cultural,though I guess...I do grow these under strange circumstances...so maybe this is the case...I think both possibilities are not too far fetched

[bsbullie]

While their could be some flavors/texture/quality variance in mangoes with respect to when/where/why/how, the variety is still the variety and it will not be totally different that what it is "known" to be.

[mangomandan]

You're right, Rob. I suspect that it wasn't representative because a) this was the very blandest mango I've ever eaten; and b) the tree had lost all but 8 leaves while carrying two fruit to maturity. My other Pickering, starting out exactly the same size and vigor, still looks great, but its two fruit aren't quite ready to sample yet.      Also, the 8 or 9 Jacquelins I've eaten from my tree so far this year have had at least 4 different levels of quality/taste.  Six, if you count different tastes on the same mango.  That was a reminder that one fruit dasn't be the basis for a decision.    BTW, thank you for respecting forum members enough to not let us wallow in imprecision 
I was planning to buy several Pickering and spirit of 76 fruits today, but the heavy rain in Lake Worth discouraged me from driving up to Canal Point.  I will taste them again before I decide, though.

I don't think my sister would be doing much as far as pruning goes.
As far as what size and where to buy.....  I'd like to get the largest/healthiest tree I could find in the 50-75 dollar range. Would one of these cultivars be larger at this price range than the other?

If you only tasted one Pickering, how do you know it wasn't representative ?

Yes, Angie is a larger tree than Pickering.  While Pickering has good attributes in its tree size, I would have to go with Cogshall for being a better quality mango.  Personally, I think Pickering gets a little bit of over recognition due to its dwarf growth habit.  While a well ripened Pickering is a good to very good fruit, it is not what I would consider excellent.  A well grown, well ripened Cogshall can be excellent.

Will your sister be able to keep it pruned or is it basically plant it and let it grow ?  What size tree are you looking to buy as this would make a difference.  Also, where would you buy it, again, this would also make a difference.

[FlyingFoxFruits]

While their could be some flavors/texture/quality variance in mangoes with respect to when/where/why/how, the variety is still the variety and it will not be totally different that what it is "known" to be.

sometimes a microclimate can create the perfect storm, for an unrivaled quality of fruit taste to occur.

also, although not very likely, things can mutate...it does happen.

[mangomandan]

Alexi,

I think so...I have two fruiting pickerings from Zill that are both Pickering, but one makes a slightly different shape fruit...one is shaped like Carrie, the other has a strange cleft dimple thingamajig...let me' see if I can find pics of what I'm blathering about.

I've fed my Pickering to someone who's had them before, and they told me it wasn't Pickering...this could all be cultural,though I guess...I do grow these under strange circumstances...so maybe this is the case...I think both possibilities are not too far fetched

Another possibility is that one of your two plants was accidentally mislabeled. I think that could happen in any operation, even one as fine as Zill's.

[bsbullie]

I'd think you could taste one fruit and know it wasn't representative of the cultivar...if the description is sweet, and it was bland...then usually the fruit was substandard, and it's not just a craving for a sweeter mango.

Pickering is very nice, but has no coconut flavor...I find the southern blush fruits from Ensey's place are one of the best mangoes I've had...even better than other southern blushes that tasted nice and sweet last year from colorfield farms mango festival.

the southern blush at ensey's had a distinct coconut taste...unlike any other mango I've had.

To me, to be able to make a claim if it were representative you would have to at least be able to compare to one other tasting.  AS to why I don't agree with your summation to the one time try based on what others say/what is printed...many people love a Carrie and a lot may feel what is written is gospel.  Well, as you may have read once or twice, it is probably in my bottom five consistently...I don't agree with some of the descriptor for it (again, my opinion...I will not and can not argue that someone else thinks its good or their favorite).  To clarify, I will not even make an effort to eat one at all if there is another variety around.  I have had none this season and don't plan to have any either (yes, I have had many from different sources over the years and my thoughts on it have not changed).

[bsbullie]

Alexi,

I think so...I have two fruiting pickerings from Zill that are both Pickering, but one makes a slightly different shape fruit...one is shaped like Carrie, the other has a strange cleft dimple thingamajig...let me' see if I can find pics of what I'm blathering about.

I've fed my Pickering to someone who's had them before, and they told me it wasn't Pickering...this could all be cultural,though I guess...I do grow these under strange circumstances...so maybe this is the case...I think both possibilities are not too far fetched

Another possibility is that one of your two plants was accidentally mislabeled. I think that could happen in any operation, even one as fine as Zill's.

Absolutely...I know for a fact it has happened there and at other nurseries.  Better to find out as a small tree in a pot than a in ground tree that is 20+ feet tall (yes, I know somebody that it happened to)...

[FlyingFoxFruits]

if the mango was bland, and the description is sweet, why couldn't I assume I didn't have a good representation of this cultivar?

it's either sweet or not...if not sweet, it's not what others have been describing it as.

in this case you can safely assume that not everyone describes bland mangoes as being sweet.

[mangomandan]

Just to clarify, this mango had no flavor whatsoever, not sweet, not tart, not turpentiney, not fruity in any respect. If I had juiced it and offered it to someone they would they they were drinking thick water.

Mr. ASaffron, of the two different Pickerings you have, do you like one significantly better than the other?  If they both happen to be good, you probably don't care much anyway.

[FlyingFoxFruits]

yes that could happen...but the leaves look identical, and they are both super dwarf and disease resistant...fruit color and texture the same...if I can tell m.cauliflora from m jaboticaba ...discerning Pickering from Pickering foliage is Childs play...I can look at leaves alone and know which mango cultivar is which (most popular cv.'s).

Alexi,

I think so...I have two fruiting pickerings from Zill that are both Pickering, but one makes a slightly different shape fruit...one is shaped like Carrie, the other has a strange cleft dimple thingamajig...let me' see if I can find pics of what I'm blathering about.

I've fed my Pickering to someone who's had them before, and they told me it wasn't Pickering...this could all be cultural,though I guess...I do grow these under strange circumstances...so maybe this is the case...I think both possibilities are not too far fetched

Another possibility is that one of your two plants was accidentally mislabeled. I think that could happen in any operation, even one as fine as Zill's.