Author Topic: Quararibea funebris  (Read 10836 times)

sanitarium

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Quararibea funebris
« on: April 26, 2013, 05:43:54 AM »
Anyone growing this or have access to the tree and/or have tasted them?

Daniel

Finca La Isla

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Re: Quararibea funebris
« Reply #1 on: April 26, 2013, 10:32:21 AM »
This tree is grown for the aromatic flower that is used along with cacao in traditional preparations in Oaxaca Mexico.  We use this dried flower in some of our chocolate and it imparts a smooth taste with a maple finish.  I don't think the fruit is desirable as an edible.  I am beginning to grow a couple of these trees here in Costa Rica.

sanitarium

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Re: Quararibea funebris
« Reply #2 on: April 26, 2013, 03:03:41 PM »
YOu are right, i have also read that flowers are the most after of this tree and have couple of uses even eaten raw as popcorn, but havent find any info about the fruit taste..  Do you know how hardy is the plant and when it starts fruiting from seed?

Also could i ask you from where you get the seeds or plants? And how old they are?
 I am looking for either seeds/seedsling/cuttings with no luck yet.
Daniel

Finca La Isla

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Re: Quararibea funebris
« Reply #3 on: April 26, 2013, 06:55:52 PM »
Q.funebris is called rosita de cacao in Spanish.  I am a cacao grower and chocolatier and I had researched it as a pre-Hispanic chocolate recipe ingredient.  I went to Oaxaca to look for it and found it being used in a drink called tejate along with cacao and dried Mamey seeds.  Of course I asked around for the trees and found someone in a small town with a few trees.  The trees had a few flowers and some fruits and the guy had some small seedlings iN planting bags.  I was able to collect some 15 seeds and had poor germination and now have 3 trees in pots.  I was worried about the climate difference between here and there but the trees look pretty good.  Although the climate is quite different I observed canistel and Chico sapote there and those grow fine for us here.
My best tree is about 10 months old and perhaps .5m. I have no idea how long it takes to flower.  It does seem to grow well and we saw a tree about 4-5m tall that was in production.
Peter



RenegadeX

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Re: Quararibea funebris
« Reply #4 on: July 05, 2013, 07:52:29 AM »
Finca: according to a Harvard University Botanical Museum leaflet published in 1977 by Frederic Rosengarten Jr., ".. when a young tree is planted, it requires at least five or six years before any noticeable flowering occurs."

Source: http://www.jstor.org/stable/41762785

I found a tropical plant specialist in Florida that sells small potted Q.funebris plants ($60 for one in a 3-gallon pot).
link: http://toptropicals.com/html/toptropicals/plant_wk/quararibea.htm

However, they do not ship outside of the USA, due to agricultural importation requirements (certificates, documentation of origin etc) and high expense.
« Last Edit: July 05, 2013, 07:54:14 AM by RenegadeX »

Finca La Isla

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Re: Quararibea funebris
« Reply #5 on: July 05, 2013, 01:30:52 PM »
Thanks, Renagade, for posting the links.  Do you have free access to the full text of the academic article?
I was just looking this morning for a choice place to plant my rosita de cacao tree.
Peter

RenegadeX

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Re: Quararibea funebris
« Reply #6 on: July 15, 2013, 02:41:04 AM »
Yes, I do - I just had to register my email address and tick a few boxes to get free access. Unfortunately, no planting tips there! (but I found some elsewhere I'll share in a moment)

Hey you said you make chocolate -- did you know there's a chocolate maker based in Hawaii that in 2011 made a limited edition Rosita de Cacao chocolate bar? Check out Madre Chocolate's website. They too visited Oaxaca [story here] to get their inspiration (and rosita!) and although I can't remember where I read it, I'm sure I read that they had taken some Q.funebris seeds or seedlings back to Hawaii so that they could try to grow it there. I noticed that website does say that the Rosita chocolate bar is "out of stock until further notice".. maybe they didn't realize how long it'd take for their plants to flower?!

Also, for anyone looking for seeds - keep your eye on this German site called 'Sunshine Seeds' [link], they're out of stock right now but they sell 10x Q.Funebris seeds for 8 euros.

They have some planting tips, that I've manually translated from German:

Quote from: SunshineSeeds.de, translated by me

I don't have any Q.funebris myself and have never tasted rosita, but would like to. I'm in Canada though ;(
« Last Edit: July 15, 2013, 04:41:12 AM by RenegadeX »

sanitarium

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Re: Quararibea funebris
« Reply #7 on: July 15, 2013, 04:30:08 AM »
Y
Also, for anyone looking for seeds - keep your eye on this German site called 'Sunshine Seeds' [link], they're out of stock right now but they sell 10 Q.Funebris seeds for 8 euros.



The site is reseller and I have made one order from them and was not satisfied with the quality. I think that the only option how to get at least some germination from their seeds is to check the "back in the list" page and order just from those seeds. As these are new and should be  fresh. But I will do not buy from them again.
Daniel

NylsX

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Re: Quararibea funebris
« Reply #8 on: July 15, 2013, 05:07:05 PM »
Finca: Hello Peter, I'm from Guerrero, Mexico, I'd like some information about the towns (time if the year) in Oaxaca where you find this rosita de Cacao plant, on this vacations i may(may not)  go for a little fruits/plants hunting to Oaxaca. greets.
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Finca La Isla

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Re: Quararibea funebris
« Reply #9 on: July 15, 2013, 08:33:45 PM »
In Oaxaca city and many other towns in the Oaxaca valley you can find the dried flowers of q. funebris.  Finding the trees in production is another story.  Asking around repeatedly I ended up being led to a place in the town of Tlacolula which is known for weaving.  I saw about 5 trees with small amounts of flowers and fruits.  The owner had a few weak looking small trees in nursery bags.  I was able to collect fruits from the ground and off the trees and got about 15 seeds.  Of these seeds I only have two good trees and another that I [/size]wouldn't be growing if I didn't think it was pretty important.  I kept the seeds moist and had them in my nursery here in CR within a week.[/color]
[/size]The place in [/color][/size]Tlacolula with the trees is known for having a "Cristo" that is a statue that is said to "grow bigger" over time.  Of course this belief attracts lots of pilgrims and so the place is well known if you go to this town and inquire about the location of the "Cristo"[/color]
[/size]Peter[/color]

NylsX

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Re: Quararibea funebris
« Reply #10 on: July 16, 2013, 08:34:44 AM »
Thanks for the detailed directions Peter. I happen to have relatives in Oaxaca. mostly in the South and some living/working as North as Oaxaca city. I may drop by for short visit over there soon  :)
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RenegadeX

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Re: Quararibea funebris
« Reply #11 on: July 16, 2013, 11:28:59 AM »
Nylsx: I recently wrote a longer version of the text below for another website, so I edited it slightly for here, hopefully it will be helpful for you:

The 1977 Harvard University Botanical Museum leaflet I mentioned previously identified the village of San Andrés Huayapam [Google Maps link], just outside of the city of Oaxaca as being "unusual" due to having "some two dozen" trees of Q.funebris growing in or near it, suggesting that this was an unusually high density of the species. A few pages later it mentioned that this was due to cultivation - and it seems done by individual homeowners/families in the area rather than a single commercial interest/organization. In fact, it said that at that time there was no commercial growing of the species.

It stands to reason that most of the flowers harvested today are likely sold in larger quantities to the local tejate vendors - tejate being a frothy drink that's been drank in the area since ancient Zapotec times, long before the Europeans arrived. It's made from water, roasted cocoa beans, milled corn, a local almond-like seed from the mamey sapote fruit, and of course the dried rosita de cacao flower. The rosita flowers are a key ingredient as the mucilage in them is needed to create the froth, and it's this and its flavour (though apparently quite subtle) that sets tejate apart from other cacao and corn-based drinks produced regionally elsewhere in Mexico.

Since 1999, San Andrés Huayapam has held an annual Tejate Fair ("Feria del tejate"). Usually taking place in late March/early April, it brings together up to 120 tejate makers from neighbouring communities --all women-- to celebrate the drink and share it with locals and tourists alike. Some 12,000 litres of the drink are produced for the fair's 20-25,000 visitors. To make that much tejate, a staggering 120 kilos of dried rosita flowers are required!

Thanks to the popularity and growth of the fair, demand for tejate has increased in recent times and is coming from further afield. To capitalize, after considering that the prepared drink doesn't keep well, that rosita has limited availability, that the preparation of the drink from raw ingredients is a lengthy and rather involved process - a group of local indigenous Zapotec women formed a company so that they could produce a packaged, dehydrated tejate product that can be drank anywhere, any time. Production of the packaged product [pictured here] started in 2009, and they were/are considering producing spin-off products such as tejate cookies and nicuatole desert. I suppose that means there's even fewer dried rosita flowers left to be taken outside of the area, but the good news that comes of this is that there are now efforts underway by the company to preserve existing rosita trees in the area and to actually increase the number of trees through the start of nurseries owned/funded/operated by them.

As there's no tejate without rosita, and as San Andrés Huayapam is the self-appointed home of tejate, if I was looking for rosita I would look there first!

By the way, the most productive tree in the village in 1977 was a 50ft tall, 50ft wide tree said to be 120 years old, abundant in flower all year but especially productive from May-August (during their rainy season). The family who owned it made a modest living off it selling its flowers at the Oaxaca market every weekend.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2013, 11:47:18 AM by RenegadeX »

NylsX

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Re: Quararibea funebris
« Reply #12 on: July 16, 2013, 03:14:45 PM »
Thanks RenegadeX, I was told the same and since Huayapam is way closer to Oaxaca city than Tlacolula it makes things easier for me. :-) 
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fruitlovers

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Re: Quararibea funebris
« Reply #13 on: July 17, 2013, 05:51:21 AM »
La Feria del Tejate (Tejate Festival):
http://informacion-digital.com/v1/?p=26490
Oscar

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Re: Quararibea funebris
« Reply #14 on: July 17, 2013, 09:08:25 AM »
Yes Oscar, this year on March 24th was celebrated the XIV Feria del Tejate in Huayapan, and next week (24 & 25) is scheduled the VIII Feria del Tejate y Tamal in Oaxaca city, this is part of the biggest Oaxacan celebration called Guelaguetza.

 http://oaxacanuestro.com/8va-feria-del-tejate-y-el-tamal/
« Last Edit: July 17, 2013, 09:16:41 AM by NylsX »
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Finca La Isla

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Re: Quararibea funebris
« Reply #15 on: July 17, 2013, 03:50:49 PM »

Here is a one year old q. Funebris ready to plant.
Peter



Ethan

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Re: Quararibea funebris
« Reply #16 on: July 17, 2013, 05:45:14 PM »
Wow such a young tree already is forming a great shape and the leaves are a beauty.  Any guesses how long it might take before your first harvest?

fruitlovers

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Re: Quararibea funebris
« Reply #17 on: July 17, 2013, 06:12:44 PM »
Yes Oscar, this year on March 24th was celebrated the XIV Feria del Tejate in Huayapan, and next week (24 & 25) is scheduled the VIII Feria del Tejate y Tamal in Oaxaca city, this is part of the biggest Oaxacan celebration called Guelaguetza.

 http://oaxacanuestro.com/8va-feria-del-tejate-y-el-tamal/

Thanks for the info. Would love to visit Oaxaca some day. Is there any mail order company that sells the dehydrated Tejate powder online? Would like to taste it.
Oscar

Finca La Isla

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Re: Quararibea funebris
« Reply #18 on: July 17, 2013, 09:56:27 PM »
I was concerned about the suitability of my lowland, wet planting area for something from Oaxaca but, on reflection, they grow much of the same trees there that we do here such as canistel, sapodilla, etc.  The seedling has developed quickly without any sign of fungus attack.  Something has chomped on it a few times but I haven't used any fungicide so I am encouraged.  I would hope that it could flower in about 4 years but that is a guess and hope, no real idea.


The women who make tejate laugh about the powdered, packaged tejate.  There is an interesting reaction that takes place when the "masa" of the tejate is mixed with water.  The fat from the cacao and corn, i guess, separates  with the water addition and creates a thick foam that floats to the top.  This foam is thick and stable and critical to good tejate.  I don't believe you get the same reaction with the dried powder.
This foam is "harder" than the foam produced from the use of pataxte to make a thick, softer foam that the Oaxacans serve on "atole de chocolate"
Peter

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Re: Quararibea funebris
« Reply #19 on: July 17, 2013, 11:17:18 PM »
According to some articles about Tejate, the foam is mainly produced by the rosita and/or the Mamey seed. Here in Neighboring Guerrero State we also have a cacao based drink called Chilate, instead corn uses rice and cinnamon instead rosita and mamey seed, with not that thick foam yet good flavored.
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Guanabanus

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Re: Quararibea funebris
« Reply #20 on: July 17, 2013, 11:41:36 PM »
Very interesting--- new to me.

I had heard about the use of another flower in cacao beverages and atoles (old-fashioned smoothies): Muc' (a.k.a. "sacred-ear flower", orejuela, and xochinacaztli), Cymbopetalum penduliflorum.
Har

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Re: Quararibea funebris
« Reply #21 on: July 18, 2013, 12:26:17 AM »
Oscar : Oaxaca is a nice place for visiting and being honest is one of the safest States in Mexico.  As Peter said  Huayapam women are producing and exporting the dehydrated Tejate to the US so you just need to find a local  supplier importing Oaxacan goods.

Guanabanus: now that adds one more to the list :) thanks for the info.
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sanitarium

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Re: Quararibea funebris
« Reply #22 on: July 19, 2013, 05:12:15 AM »

Guanabanus: now that adds one more to the list :) thanks for the info.


Maybe you´ll find some more adds here :)

http://ethnobiology.org/sites/default/files/pdfs/JoE/10-2/ByeJrLinares.pdf
Daniel

mangomike

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Re: Quararibea funebris
« Reply #23 on: August 21, 2013, 07:01:59 PM »
Does anyone know where seeds of Cymbopetalum penduliflorum could be found?

Guanabanus

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Re: Quararibea funebris
« Reply #24 on: August 21, 2013, 11:23:13 PM »
No.
Har