The Tropical Fruit Forum
Tropical Fruit => Tropical Fruit Discussion => Topic started by: Mark in Texas on January 25, 2017, 08:22:24 AM
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Typical hype on a "new" one, so how's the taste and other features of the tree?
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I assume you're talking about Aravaipa? I haven't tasted the fruit yet; mine is still small (3 gal) but growing vigorously.
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Don't think there was much "hype" other than the Aravaipa avocado tree is growing in snow and withstands some brutal Arizona temperatures. Photos I have seen showing the green leafed tree with snow around it are pretty unique. I too have the tree, thanks to the generosity of Arizona CRFG members who sent scionwood. No fruit yet, no high expectations but could make a pretty cold resistant rootstock.
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Yeah, Aravaipa. That new "discovery" has been out for some years, right? No one has a subjective report on the fruit yet?
Jack it reminds me of the hype here in Texas regarding the "excellent fruit" BS that goes with every nursery ad including all county extension descriptions. Everyone that has actually tasted these fruits are like me, they are crap. Am talking about the cold hardy "Tex-Mex" varieties like Joey, Brazos Belle, Wilma, Fantastic, Pryor, etc. Seems the only fruit that gets kudos are Winter Mexican, Mexicola and a few others.
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Mark, at one of the Orange county scion exchanges 3-4years ago I asked Julie Frink about Arivipa taste and she said was not that good!
I've got it growing too outside but no flowers yet still small but healthy.
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Mark, at one of the Orange county scion exchanges 3-4years ago I asked Julie Frink about Arivipa taste and she said was not that good!
I've got it growing too outside but no flowers yet still small but healthy.
If Julie doesn't like it, nuff said.
I hope it works out for you though and you report on the fruit quality.
Oro Negro is getting there, probably another week or so before I'll start harvesting.
(https://s27.postimg.cc/93nuzrjr3/Oro_Negro_Jan2017.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/93nuzrjr3/)
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Mark, at one of the Orange county scion exchanges 3-4years ago I asked Julie Frink about Arivipa taste and she said was not that good!
I've got it growing too outside but no flowers yet still small but healthy.
I wouldn't be surprised. The only source for them is this guy, "Shamus" that reveals in this video that he's never even had an avocado in his life towards the end of the video. It's mostly "hype" and people here are eating it up even though they've never even tasted it or heard of any taste test in the past.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4WFuXVmoD_w (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4WFuXVmoD_w)
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Mark, at one of the Orange county scion exchanges 3-4years ago I asked Julie Frink about Arivipa taste and she said was not that good!
I've got it growing too outside but no flowers yet still small but healthy.
I wouldn't be surprised. The only source for them is this guy, "Shamus" that reveals in this video that he's never even had an avocado in his life towards the end of the video. It's mostly "hype" and people here are eating it up even though they've never even tasted it or heard of any taste test in the past.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4WFuXVmoD_w (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4WFuXVmoD_w)
Figures, eh. Folks have an obsession for growing avocados here in Texas from the upper coast down to Brownsville. 99% of their experiences fail.
Purchases can be summarized as such - "people are dreamers and conmen fulfill those dreams."
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Beautiful O.N. fruit Mark 8)
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Never heard of anyone eating, which probably means its not that great. As a seedling of hass, I would think it is similar but ultimately not as good. Maybe it will be used as a rootstock instead for the heavy clay soil and high temps, but even araviapa trees have Lula has a rootstock.
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The County master gardeners are going to have some trees for sale on the 11th the Arizona and one they are calling Don Juan? I have not heard anything about that one either, I am going to call the Master Gardeners office later today and see if I can get some info on both.
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So far although the Arizona and the Don Juan avocado trees were listed separately, after looking on the internet they appear to be the same tree?The master gardener I talked to on the phone did not really help much, she just described it as being hass like and getting around twenty-five feet tall. I will keep on trying to find out more.
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Okay so I talked with the master gardener again and she insists these are two different types, so I will purchase one of each and see what happens. Here is how they have them listed.
Native Arizona “Aravaipa”—A Haas variety (Guatemalan) found in Arizona mountains; extremely cold hardy.
Don Juan—Produces good sized fruit with a speckled green skin. The flesh is of exceptional quality. After years of maturity, it may reach 23 feet tall. It is cold hardy to mid-10° F.
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You AZ guys can probably pull off some hass trees if they have some surrounding shade for afternoon sun. And plenty of water. It get extremely hot where Im at. 110 during a heateave and the trees don't seem to mind much if they are watered. They are getting full exposure on a south hill.
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You AZ guys can probably pull off some hass trees if they have some surrounding shade for afternoon sun. And plenty of water. It get extremely hot where Im at. 110 during a heateave and the trees don't seem to mind much if they are watered. They are getting full exposure on a south hill.
That's just a few heatwave. Try averaging 107F for 3-4 straight months ,.....there are not too many Hass in Palm Springs and there is a reason for that.
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You AZ guys can probably pull off some hass trees if they have some surrounding shade for afternoon sun. And plenty of water. It get extremely hot where Im at. 110 during a heateave and the trees don't seem to mind much if they are watered. They are getting full exposure on a south hill.
That's just a few heatwave. Try averaging 107F for 3-4 straight months ,.....there are not too many Hass in Palm Springs and there is a reason for that.
I would just suck it up and move somewhere less like hell. My wifes side of the family lives in Phoenix. Of course they love to rag on California. But they are always happy to visit in summer and complain about their 1000$ cooling bill. :'(
At least citrus grow well there...
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Aravaipa and Don Juan probably aren't the same variety because Don Juan has a much old and larger distribution. Plus, Don Juan is unheard of (like many texan cados) in Arizona; a similar situation exists for Aravaipa in Texas.
What sets aravaipa apart from hass is its purported salt tolerance, heat tolerance (up to 120 F), high pH and other conditions that are Arizona specific. Also, NOT only citrus grows here, but also with frost protection and shade cloth (like many 9bers do), mango, guava and most others do very well.
Just stick to your own states' avocados, which are better suited to your area.
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(https://s27.postimg.cc/gv0frogyn/Wilma_Avocado_showing_seed_coat_rdc.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/gv0frogyn/)
I'm growing Wilma in Tucson and find it delicious. I've also gotten very favorable reactions from everybody else who has eaten fruit from my tree. It's not perfect--the loose seed coat adheres lightly to the flesh (but is easy to remove); some may not like the look of the thin, edible black skin--especially in guacamole (but it tastes fine); and there is usually a thin, circular area next to the seed that looks gray and unappetizing, which I trim away. But--it's an abundant producer of great-tasting avocados that I can grow in Tucson. I wonder if the people who report not liking it are eating fruit before it's mature enough to ripen properly?
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I wish there was someplace to order the different fruits from, so you could try it before you buy the tree and go through all the time and trouble to raise it.
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That would be helpful, but you might still get very different results due to your local climate and soil conditions. I'm planning to trial about six varieties in my yard so I can find out first hand which variety I prefer for my situation.
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I already have one of these so I may be stuck with subpar fruit... I am wondering if anyone knows if this is a type A avocado, thats what I am assuming right now. If it is type A I want to find a Type B with good fruit, salt tolerance, plus cold and heat tolerance, any suggestions???
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I already have one of these so I may be stuck with subpar fruit... I am wondering if anyone knows if this is a type A avocado, thats what I am assuming right now. If it is type A I want to find a Type B with good fruit, salt tolerance, plus cold and heat tolerance, any suggestions???
Avocados cross over from A to B and B to A for several hours during the day, meaning, you don't need both. That internet "I heard" stuff just won't quit. Now, it might help production to have both, then again it might not make any difference.
Having said that my Oro Negro may be hitting its stride. We're eating some pretty darn good ones. What I like about ON too is the hard shell (peel), creamy but firm texture and never any strings. Weights are 13 - 18 oz., big seed though.
(https://s23.postimg.cc/h505i2rk7/ONMarch.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/h505i2rk7/)
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I'm impressed Mark, you've got some beautiful O.N. fruiting well good job I think they love your G.H. for sure!I have graft's growing but no flowers yet maybe a few more year's before I get fruit. 8)
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I already have one of these so I may be stuck with subpar fruit... I am wondering if anyone knows if this is a type A avocado, thats what I am assuming right now. If it is type A I want to find a Type B with good fruit, salt tolerance, plus cold and heat tolerance, any suggestions???
Avocados cross over from A to B and B to A for several hours during the day, meaning, you don't need both. That internet "I heard" stuff just won't quit. Now, it might help production to have both, then again it might not make any difference.
Having said that my Oro Negro may be hitting its stride. We're eating some pretty darn good ones. What I like about ON too is the hard shell (peel), creamy but firm texture and never any strings. Weights are 13 - 18 oz., big seed though.
(https://s23.postimg.cc/h505i2rk7/ONMarch.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/h505i2rk7/)
Great to hear mark my......I made have pulled the trigger to early. The ones I've had tasted like grass ball one of the first avocado tree I eliminated.
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Thanks Scott. I may or may not top work it with varieties that JF sent me. I can observe, taste and then act. ;)
Back to A & B types. This photo shows one female flower (stamens bent outward and anthers not dehisced) and 4 male flowers (with stigma no longer receptive, but stamens upright and anthers dehisced) in a daily sexual transition on one Ardith flowering spike, a commercial variety grown in Israel. Photo was taken yesterday around 2:00 p.m.
(https://s3.postimg.cc/p5r3b1mgv/Mail_Female_Flowers.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/p5r3b1mgv/)
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Any updates on the Aaravaipa avocado. I'm just curious if anyone has set and/or tasted fruit from this tree yet?
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I try to follow it pretty closely, and don't know of anyone with much information to share. There are periodic discussions about it on https://www.facebook.com/groups/PhxFruitGrowers/ (https://www.facebook.com/groups/PhxFruitGrowers/) and https://www.facebook.com/groups/533282183509076/. (https://www.facebook.com/groups/533282183509076/.) A guy who inherited property with a mature, fruit-bearing tree grafted by his father is in the process of figuring out its optimum cultural requirements, and didn't pay adequate enough attention to it last year to get a harvest. The trees being grown by people who have purchased them commercially are reportedly still too young to have produced fruit, although several say they've had fruit set this year. This video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c7OAmGRQ8OE&feature=youtu.be (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c7OAmGRQ8OE&feature=youtu.be) by Julie Frink discusses Aravaipa briefly in answer to a question just past the one hour mark; she describes it as "Okay, not bad," but gives her opinion that if you're in a good avocado-growing location where cold tolerance isn't an issue, you probably have better choices.
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I try to follow it pretty closely, and don't know of anyone with much information to share. There are periodic discussions about it on https://www.facebook.com/groups/PhxFruitGrowers/ (https://www.facebook.com/groups/PhxFruitGrowers/) and https://www.facebook.com/groups/533282183509076/. (https://www.facebook.com/groups/533282183509076/.) A guy who inherited property with a mature, fruit-bearing tree grafted by his father is in the process of figuring out its optimum cultural requirements, and didn't pay adequate enough attention to it last year to get a harvest. The trees being grown by people who have purchased them commercially are reportedly still too young to have produced fruit, although several say they've had fruit set this year. This video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c7OAmGRQ8OE&feature=youtu.be (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c7OAmGRQ8OE&feature=youtu.be) by Julie Frink discusses Aravaipa briefly in answer to a question just past the one hour mark; she describes it as "Okay, not bad," but gives her opinion that if you're in a good avocado-growing location where cold tolerance isn't an issue, you probably have better choices.
Thanks for the links Ken. I'm looking for the best option for an in ground Zone 9B Avocado tree that will not receive any thermal protection, but also produces decent fruit. My current plan is a top-worked Stewart Avocado that has a local Duke grafted on. The graft is just waking up, but it's by no means a done deal.
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Good luck--it sounds like we're on a similar quest. I'm trying several varieties in hopes of comparing them some day, but so far only my Wilma and Opal have gotten big enough to fruit. The others range from newly-grafted to two or three years old. I'm very interested to see how the Duke performs. Mine is just a few inches tall, but in the '40s there was a commercial grove with a couple hundred avocado trees located about a mile south of my house (NW Tucson). I don't know what other varieties were grown, but some of them were Dukes, and they reportedly produced higher quality fruit here in Tucson than in California. I know of a handful of other local trees that are said to produce good fruit, but have not personally sampled them--Zutano, Mexicola Grande, and Mexicola. I've also tasted a few end-of-the-season avocados from a very large Mexican seedling growing at a midtown monastery. It's okay, but I wasn't wild about it.
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The optimist in me just wants to believe that there’s a place for zutano in the edible avocado spectrum, but I just can’t bring myself to believe it. I have one in a small pot that I lug around to pollinate everything else. That’s about it haven’t been impressed by the ones I’ve tastes from the local farmers market.
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I'm looking for the best option for an in ground Zone 9B Avocado tree that will not receive any thermal protection, but also produces decent fruit. My current plan is a top-worked Stewart Avocado that has a local Duke grafted on. The graft is just waking up, but it's by no means a done deal.
Sounds like you got that one upside down. Stewart is twice the size of Mexicola, most cold hardy of any variety, very rich flavor and great production. Highly recommended by every one I've conversed with and Julie Frink. I'm getting sticks next week of it from a SoCal grower.
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This video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c7OAmGRQ8OE&feature=youtu.be (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c7OAmGRQ8OE&feature=youtu.be) by Julie Frink discusses Aravaipa briefly in answer to a question just past the one hour mark; she describes it as "Okay, not bad," but gives her opinion that if you're in a good avocado-growing location where cold tolerance isn't an issue, you probably have better choices.
Yeah, she's not too impressed about it but I believe she also had the usual caveat - "if it's all you can grow......"
Here in Texas most growers only use the Tex-Mex varieties (those that were sourced in south Texas) like Opal, Pryor aka "Fantastic", Joey, Wilma, Brazos Belle, etc. as rootstock.
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If, as you say, "in Texas most growers only use the Tex-Mex varieties ... as rootstock", I'd love to know which varieties they're grafting onto them. If they're working so well for you in your climate, I can only imagine how great they'll perform for us here in Arizona! I'm also curious about Stewart being the "most cold hardy of any variety." Dave Wilson (http://www.davewilson.com/sites/default/files/assets/GardenCompass-avocado.pdf (http://www.davewilson.com/sites/default/files/assets/GardenCompass-avocado.pdf)) and a few other online sources rate it as hardy to 24 degrees, which is pretty good, but I'm not finding anything to indicate that it's the hardiest of them all.
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I'm looking for the best option for an in ground Zone 9B Avocado tree that will not receive any thermal protection, but also produces decent fruit. My current plan is a top-worked Stewart Avocado that has a local Duke grafted on. The graft is just waking up, but it's by no means a done deal.
Sounds like you got that one upside down. Stewart is twice the size of Mexicola, most cold hardy of any variety, very rich flavor and great production. Highly recommended by every one I've conversed with and Julie Frink. I'm getting sticks next week of it from a SoCal grower.
If The Duke takes, I'll try and develop two main branches, one Duke and the other Stewart. From what I've seen, the Stewart is a really ugly tree. You know how beautiful the Duke can become from the pics I posted earlier, though that was from an ancient and likely ungrafted tree. Since this tree is going in the front yard, I was hoping for something a tad less gangling than the Stewart. But as a beggar, I can't be so choosy. A tree that isn't suited for the cold temps here but I believe is a better looker would be Reed. I can't seem to source one in Northern CA. How did you get yours in Texas? It seems the inter-node distance on Reed is shortened, and it's a nice columnar tree that could be shaped to look worthy of a front yard perch.
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If, as you say, "in Texas most growers only use the Tex-Mex varieties ... as rootstock", I'd love to know which varieties they're grafting onto them. If they're working so well for you in your climate, I can only imagine how great they'll perform for us here in Arizona! I'm also curious about Stewart being the "most cold hardy of any variety." Dave Wilson (http://www.davewilson.com/sites/default/files/assets/GardenCompass-avocado.pdf (http://www.davewilson.com/sites/default/files/assets/GardenCompass-avocado.pdf)) and a few other online sources rate it as hardy to 24 degrees, which is pretty good, but I'm not finding anything to indicate that it's the hardiest of them all.
Yeah, regarding the Stewart, I have two young seedlings that I purchased from a local nursery (a couple weeks apart) this past Winter around the time when we had a freezing spell down to ~18F for several days. I can see how the Stewart leaves took the cold better than other varieties I purchased around the same time, but they still crisped up ultimately. I guess the point is that the trunks didn't completely freeze through and die back. I think age and health have a lot to do with an Avocado's cold resistance. A young seedling of any variety will suffer in cold, but something well established and more mature will be quicker to bounce back and show resilience
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Here are a couple pics of my Duke Venier Grafts. Maybe the first one will survive. No life from the others.
(https://s9.postimg.cc/gq4pfwaa3/20180512_112426.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/gq4pfwaa3/)
(https://s9.postimg.cc/65urx7awb/20180512_112527.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/65urx7awb/)
(https://s9.postimg.cc/u9ljli12z/20180512_112649.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/u9ljli12z/)
Young Water sprouts. Possible these are sucking the life out of the grafts above? Should I hack 'em off?
(https://s9.postimg.cc/von4acrx7/20180512_112502.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/von4acrx7/)
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I'm also curious about Stewart being the "most cold hardy of any variety." Dave Wilson (http://www.davewilson.com/sites/default/files/assets/GardenCompass-avocado.pdf (http://www.davewilson.com/sites/default/files/assets/GardenCompass-avocado.pdf)) and a few other online sources rate it as hardy to 24 degrees, which is pretty good, but I'm not finding anything to indicate that it's the hardiest of them all.
A mature Stewart with a thick trunk is reported to be cold hardy into the teens. Julie Frink said it's the "most cold hardy" in this excellent variety paper she did. https://drive.google.com/file/d/1s46Wp0xUMscCvQ2wn78aeAFhhXIUpNB7/view (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1s46Wp0xUMscCvQ2wn78aeAFhhXIUpNB7/view)
All bets are off if you have temps of 75F one afternoon and an arctic blast hits and it gets into the low 20's by dawn which happens often in Texas. For example, I hit 18F in my greenhouse in January and all citrus, a Reed, Gwen and a Oro Negro are coming back strong. Why? Because they were subjected to low 30's for days before that drop. I'm chincy when it comes to propane gas. I have my heater's day setpoint around 35F and night setpoint at 34F. To have a pure Guatemalan like Reed take 18F for any period is a miracle. I have quite a few others that are shooting shoots from the lower trunk, the area that was covered in a mulch of pine needles and dead leaves. I soaked the soil well with Magnabon CS2005 (systemic copper) after the freeze. It may have helped ward off any rot.
Reed is at 2:00 in this shot. It's actually about 5' X 5' where back in late January there was nothing left but stumps.
(https://s7.postimg.cc/47waik6tz/Trees_May12.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/47waik6tz/)
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Young Water sprouts. Possible these are sucking the life out of the grafts above? Should I hack 'em off?
(https://s9.postimg.cc/von4acrx7/20180512_112502.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/von4acrx7/)
Yes. Hack off anything that is higher than the graft union. it's an issue of apical dominance and your new graft/shoots should dominate in that regard. I usually keep a few "nurse" leaves on.
I've had excellent results with side veneer grafts on avocado. Cherimoya too, as of late. Here's a Reed in 2012 that quickly grew to 10' which is the height I kept it at.
(https://s7.postimg.cc/uhlyf9pwn/Reed_Veneer_Graft5-6-12send.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/uhlyf9pwn/)
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How did I get Reed? Three times I ordered sticks from U.C.R. Here's an example of an invoice. Sticks were free. I had to pay FedX shipping. It's my understanding that recent experiences dealing with them have not been too favorable.
(https://s7.postimg.cc/uivw8nhfr/Avocado_Sticks.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/uivw8nhfr/)
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Young Water sprouts. Possible these are sucking the life out of the grafts above? Should I hack 'em off?
(https://s9.postimg.cc/von4acrx7/20180512_112502.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/von4acrx7/)
Yes. Hack off anything that is higher than the graft union. it's an issue of apical dominance and your new graft/shoots should dominate in that regard. I usually keep a few "nurse" leaves on.
I've had excellent results with side veneer grafts on avocado. Cherimoya too, as of late. Here's a Reed in 2012 that quickly grew to 10' which is the height I kept it at.
(https://s7.postimg.cc/uhlyf9pwn/Reed_Veneer_Graft5-6-12send.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/uhlyf9pwn/)
A very useful list--thanks for posting the link! I suspect she means Stewart is the most cold hardy of the trees she's comparing on her list, rather than the hardiest of all varieties in existence, but if she rates it that strongly I would definitely like to give it a try. Anything that needs greenhouse protection is certainly not going to survive in my yard.
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A very useful list--thanks for posting the link! I suspect she means Stewart is the most cold hardy of the trees she's comparing on her list, rather than the hardiest of all varieties in existence, but if she rates it that strongly I would definitely like to give it a try. Anything that needs greenhouse protection is certainly not going to survive in my yard.
Zone 8 for me and I might one outdoors. Have a friend who said he witnessed a Mexicola survive single digits. Have no info other than that.
Stewart is reported to be a seedling of Mexicola. Bigger fruit and better taste "so they say".
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We were talking about Aravaipa over on the CRFG Facebook group and one fellow chimed in to say he had tasted it and it's very good and similar to Fuerte. So there's another data point for you.
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We were talking about Aravaipa over on the CRFG Facebook group and one fellow chimed in to say he had tasted it and it's very good and similar to Fuerte. So there's another data point for you.
Thanks!
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We were talking about Aravaipa over on the CRFG Facebook group and one fellow chimed in to say he had tasted it and it's very good and similar to Fuerte. So there's another data point for you.
Thanks for the heads-up, joehewitt. I wanted to find out a little more, so I contacted the guy who tasted it. Here is his response:
"Hi Ken, I'm a former chairman of the San Diego CRFG group. One of our elders has a 10-12 foot tree here. It produces a fruit that is very close to a Fuerte in every respect, thin skinned, small-medium seed, good flavor, creamy, etc. I was not expecting it to be a good taster due to the cold hardiness (you don't typically get both). Growth habit seems "normal" not lateral or columnar, but balanced...Check out my page if you want more from me: https://www.facebook.com/SuburbanFoodFarm (https://www.facebook.com/SuburbanFoodFarm)"
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I have one here in Vegas that's about a year in from when I got in a rooted out 5-gallon. Currently it's in a big 25ish gallon pot and is putting off good growth. Judging by other posts here, I assume that I'll be waiting a while before I get any level of fruit set on it.
Also have a Fuerte and Mexicola Grande that are trucking along after a year. All have been kept mostly shaded to protect them from our brutal sun until they start getting some mature bark going.
Trying to acquire a Wilma, Reed, Day, Wurtz, and Stewart to see how they do here. Also doing some Hass seed grown direct in the ground to use as potential root stock.
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I have one here in Vegas that's about a year in from when I got in a rooted out 5-gallon. Currently it's in a big 25ish gallon pot and is putting off good growth. Judging by other posts here, I assume that I'll be waiting a while before I get any level of fruit set on it.
Also have a Fuerte and Mexicola Grande that are trucking along after a year. All have been kept mostly shaded to protect them from our brutal sun until they start getting some mature bark going.
Trying to acquire a Wilma, Reed, Day, Wurtz, and Stewart to see how they do here. Also doing some Hass seed grown direct in the ground to use as potential root stock.
I hope you have a large greenhouse because all those mentioned except for Mexicola, Aravaipa and Stewart are not cold hardy. What's your zone? 7 or 8?
Hate to be a Debby Downer but Tex-Mex varieties like Wilma are only good for rootstocks IMO. Haven't heard one good comment about their taste. My Joey sucked for instance. Opal "tastes like grass", etc.
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Mark, if you "haven't heard one good comment" about the taste of Wilma, perhaps you should re-read my post (Reply #17) in this same thread. Also, although I haven't experienced a truly cold winter since planting the Wilma & Opal, it got down to 27 this past winter with no appreciable damage (brand new flushes on the Wilma got crisped, but nothing else was harmed). A nursery owner about five miles from my house has three Mexicola Grandes growing in a service area with no protection from cold or heat, and they're doing fine. He says the fruit is delicious, but he rarely gets any because his workers steal them as soon as they're close to being mature. One of my neighbors had a couple of large (maybe 30 feet tall) Zutanos growing in his yard for many years. He eventually lost them to disease, but replaced them with another Zutano because he likes the fruit so much. The Westward Look resort a few miles from my house has a Mexicola and Zutano that are producing well, and the quality is high enough that they serve the fruit to their guests. It's just possible that what hasn't worked well in your area might might do better somewhere else. For example, in the late '30s and early '40s there was a 200-tree avocado grove of various types about a mile south of my home in Tucson. It was reported that the size and quality of the Duke avocados grown in Tucson was better than of Dukes grown in California. I, for one, applaud the efforts of Fygee and any other grower willing to expand our knowledge about how various avocados perform in challenging climates by actually giving them a try.
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I have one here in Vegas that's about a year in from when I got in a rooted out 5-gallon. Currently it's in a big 25ish gallon pot and is putting off good growth. Judging by other posts here, I assume that I'll be waiting a while before I get any level of fruit set on it.
Also have a Fuerte and Mexicola Grande that are trucking along after a year. All have been kept mostly shaded to protect them from our brutal sun until they start getting some mature bark going.
Trying to acquire a Wilma, Reed, Day, Wurtz, and Stewart to see how they do here. Also doing some Hass seed grown direct in the ground to use as potential root stock.
I hope you have a large greenhouse because all those mentioned except for Mexicola, Aravaipa and Stewart are not cold hardy. What's your zone? 7 or 8?
Hate to be a Debby Downer but Tex-Mex varieties like Wilma are only good for rootstocks IMO. Haven't heard one good comment about their taste. My Joey sucked for instance. Opal "tastes like grass", etc.
Day and Wurtz will be in pots and brought indoors for the winter. Day are also cold hardy enough for the winters we get here.
The others will be experimental, but can be overwintered with proper mulching and burlap. We rarely get temps below freezing here, and when we do they don't last long. Lows typically hover around the higher end of 30-37F in the coldest part of winter.
We're zone 9.
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I, for one, applaud the efforts of Fygee and any other grower willing to expand our knowledge about how various avocados perform in challenging climates by actually giving them a try.
Appreciate the support! Challenging is definitely the operative word here, but myself and some others within my Facebook group are up for it and trying similar and different methods to achieve success.
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Mark, if you "haven't heard one good comment" about the taste of Wilma, perhaps you should re-read my post (Reply #17) in this same thread. Also, although I haven't experienced a truly cold winter since planting the Wilma & Opal, it got down to 27 this past winter with no appreciable damage (brand new flushes on the Wilma got crisped, but nothing else was harmed). A nursery owner about five miles from my house has three Mexicola Grandes growing in a service area with no protection from cold or heat, and they're doing fine. He says the fruit is delicious, but he rarely gets any because his workers steal them as soon as they're close to being mature. One of my neighbors had a couple of large (maybe 30 feet tall) Zutanos growing in his yard for many years. He eventually lost them to disease, but replaced them with another Zutano because he likes the fruit so much. The Westward Look resort a few miles from my house has a Mexicola and Zutano that are producing well, and the quality is high enough that they serve the fruit to their guests. It's just possible that what hasn't worked well in your area might might do better somewhere else. For example, in the late '30s and early '40s there was a 200-tree avocado grove of various types about a mile south of my home in Tucson. It was reported that the size and quality of the Duke avocados grown in Tucson was better than of Dukes grown in California. I, for one, applaud the efforts of Fygee and any other grower willing to expand our knowledge about how various avocados perform in challenging climates by actually giving them a try.
I read that a while back. Was quite surprised and yes "terroir" plays a part in how well the tree does and how good the fruit is. Yesterday I finished up 13 grafts of what should be top tier - GEM, Jan Boyce, Sharwil, Lamb Hass, Pinkerton and one of the best super cold hardy varieties - Stewart. It is reported to be a Mexicola seedling, fruit is twice as big. 2 trees I top worked were Brogdon and now Oro Negro shoots (pictured) that came off the freeze damaged wood. I put Stewart on a Bacon and Fantastic aka Pryor seedlings too. Cold on cold. Zone 8, I may put one outdoors.
(https://s7.postimg.cc/h0pldz5lj/Avocado_Grafts_May22.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/h0pldz5lj/)
Here's my Joey. Tried to top work it with Stewart, didn't make it.
(https://s7.postimg.cc/nd05agojb/Joey_Harvest_2.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/nd05agojb/)
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We're zone 9.
Wow, never thought zone 9. That's excellent. BTW, if you're going to do pots may I suggest a system which root prunes like RootMaker or copper hydroxide paints. You can get by with a smaller pot and have twice the root mass. Very efficient. Avocados want to be big trees and have shallow but broad root systems.
Good luck!
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Good luck with the grafts. I'll be interested to hear how they do for you, particularly the Stewart, since that's one I hope to try in Tucson. Someone gave me a cutting once but I didn't have any rootstocks available. I grafted it onto my Wilma in hopes of keeping it alive till I had new seedlings, but it didn't "take."
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Stewart is a good fruit and claimed to be very cold tolerant. But, from my tree it seems not a super vigorous grower and not a dense flusher. I think it might have issues with Sun burn in Tucson or vegas.
I think you guys growing avocados in the desert should tree growing reed, fuerte, and hass. The fruits are superior and the trees are vigorous and make heavy flushes that should protect the bark from the cold AND the sun. Maybe it's already been tried? If not and you are just growing all these other types for fear of cold damage, you may really be cutting yourselves short. I have a feeling some of these other mix race or pure Guatemalan race trees will do fine if other avocados are working for you. The thing you have going for you is strong sunlight which makes a dense canopy. If you look at trees grown in northern CA they tend to be lanky and spindly exposing branch and long internodes. That's not a good thing when frost or a heatwave come.
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I have a young Fuerte that's doing well so far, but I'm skeptical about its ability to survive a cold Tucson winter. Time will tell. I know the owner of a small nursery in Tucson who thinks Hass could make it here, but I don't know if he's tried it. I believe a few people in Phoenix are trying to grow Reed (and probably everything else--there are a lot of dedicated growers up there). One guy in Phoenix even saw Reeds for sale at a local Lowe's.
I agree with the benefits of letting the trees protect their trunks with heavy flushes of foliage. I encourage mine to grow as bushes, with as little exposed bark as possible.
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Thats good you grow fuerte. Its called fuerte for a reason. I think it may suffer more in the heat than the cold. At least mine seems to get a bit dried out during heat waves andhot winds but then bounces right back. Reed on the other hand seems to be conpletely unphased by heat. I have 6 reeds and same thing with all of them, no problem with hot. It doesnt get very cold here but my buddy greg lives further inland than me and got some frost this winter and his trees did fine. By the time winter comes the new flushes should be pretty well hardened off. As far as phoenix vs tuscon goes, it seems tuscon should be better since its a little cooler there during summer. The fuerte tree should get big fast, that would be a good tree to use to multigraft to test other types also if you are unable to plant more trees. Anyways, just throwing ideas and info out there.
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I have a Fuerte that seems to be doing well. It's actually one of the only two varieties Lowe's sells here, the other being Mexicola (and grande). Both handled this past winter like a champ, although it was definitely warmer than normal here. Both trees are in a shaded area with a slightly more humid microclimate, so they're spared the majority of our blistering sun.
I tried Hass and it wasn't as cold tolerant, and also seemed more sensitive to root rot and soil salt. Wouldn't mind giving it another go having learned some things since then.
Appreciate the tips on Rootmaker and copper hydroxide paints, I'll check them out!
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I talked to you about making plants. I will be doing some avocado seedlings in .7gal 5x9" tall pots for grafting and mail shipping. Bear with me as it takes a long time to go from seed to hardened off graft. Once I have seeds in a state ready to graft I will check back to see if you still want trees and what you want grafted.
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No rush, so whenever they're ready. :)
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I talked to you about making plants. I will be doing some avocado seedlings in .7gal 5x9" tall pots for grafting and mail shipping. Bear with me as it takes a long time to go from seed to hardened off graft. Once I have seeds in a state ready to graft I will check back to see if you still want trees and what you want grafted.
May not work for avocado but have had good results with Stuewe treepots. https://www.stuewe.com/products/treepots.php (https://www.stuewe.com/products/treepots.php)
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I noticed Lowe's sells some small fruit trees that come in those containers. I'm using a couple for ice cream bean seedlings, which apparently really love to get a vertical taproot established.
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I talked to you about making plants. I will be doing some avocado seedlings in .7gal 5x9" tall pots for grafting and mail shipping. Bear with me as it takes a long time to go from seed to hardened off graft. Once I have seeds in a state ready to graft I will check back to see if you still want trees and what you want grafted.
May not work for avocado but have had good results with Stuewe treepots. https://www.stuewe.com/products/treepots.php (https://www.stuewe.com/products/treepots.php)
Yep thats what I use. Have several cases of different sizes. The 5x9s are a bit small but good for mailing. Mango and cherimoya have more of a tap root than avocado. But avocado will easily fill up a 8x15 tall pot. Thats what the grove suppliers have their trees in.
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Yep thats what I use. Have several cases of different sizes. The 5x9s are a bit small but good for mailing. Mango and cherimoya have more of a tap root than avocado. But avocado will easily fill up a 8x15 tall pot. Thats what the grove suppliers have their trees in.
I really kicked them up a notch by coating the walls and bottom with Griffin's Spin-Out. Copper hydroxide paint is 100% efficient in root pruning and insuring a very fibrous root system. Had mostly oaks in them which have a long tap root.
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I purchased some Roottrapper pots from Rootmaker to migrate my avocados into. Eager to see how they do. Considering moving some other plants into them and purchasing more if they do what they advertise.
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Yep thats what I use. Have several cases of different sizes. The 5x9s are a bit small but good for mailing. Mango and cherimoya have more of a tap root than avocado. But avocado will easily fill up a 8x15 tall pot. Thats what the grove suppliers have their trees in.
I really kicked them up a notch by coating the walls and bottom with Griffin's Spin-Out. Copper hydroxide paint is 100% efficient in root pruning and insuring a very fibrous root system. Had mostly oaks in them which have a long tap root.
Where is the best place to purchase the copper hydroxide paint? How do you apply? Can it be ised in a spray bottle. How many 5gal pots can be done with a gallon or quart or whatever size they sell?
Thanks mark
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I purchased some Roottrapper pots from Rootmaker to migrate my avocados into. Eager to see how they do. Considering moving some other plants into them and purchasing more if they do what they advertise.
They work as advertised and the white fabric helps in hot weather/sun. I'd move them as little as possible to prevent root damage. I'm so paranoid about avocado roots I've cut off the pot to prevent any damage when transplanting. Not so with other trees.
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Where is the best place to purchase the copper hydroxide paint? How do you apply? Can it be ised in a spray bottle. How many 5gal pots can be done with a gallon or quart or whatever size they sell?
Thanks mark
Don't think Griffin's is made any more. Here's a great thread on it including home made concoction. Paint no with a brush I guess. I would think a qt. would do at least 10 5 gal. pots, maybe as many as 20. http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=3239.0 (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=3239.0)
I was gifted cases of Griffin's spray cans. Would scrub the pots well, rinse, dry and spray with 3 light coats. They can be reused too.
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Found this - http://diy.sepro.com/spinout-root-growth-regulator (http://diy.sepro.com/spinout-root-growth-regulator)
https://www.fs.fed.us/rm/pubs/rmrs_p028/rmrs_p028_076_078.pdf (https://www.fs.fed.us/rm/pubs/rmrs_p028/rmrs_p028_076_078.pdf)
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I purchased some Roottrapper pots from Rootmaker to migrate my avocados into. Eager to see how they do. Considering moving some other plants into them and purchasing more if they do what they advertise.
They work as advertised and the white fabric helps in hot weather/sun. I'd move them as little as possible to prevent root damage. I'm so paranoid about avocado roots I've cut off the pot to prevent any damage when transplanting. Not so with other trees.
Awesome. They should work really well here then. How good are they on drainage?
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Awesome. They should work really well here then. How good are they on drainage?
Good. Call up Rootmaker and ask about them. One of the ladies, staff, told me that RootTrapper pots is all she'll use thanks to the hot Alabama sun. Says they also cut down on watering too.
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Brad, was given a quote for 5 gals., like $375. Texas SePro rep said he thought the price is set by the distributor, whatever that means. I thought they were the distributor.
Griffin's IS still manufacturing the paint. Here's a Cali. rep - Nex Gilley, #805-680-6860
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Thanks Mark, I will check it out. You are the man.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SfOxf3CZ6bY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SfOxf3CZ6bY)
Arizona avocado expert talks to Jake Mace about Aravaipa.
Skip to the 9:30 mark about how it tastes.
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8:40 mark