Planting Mango Tree in So Cal Rocky Soil

[behlgarden]

any recommendations on how to plant mango tree in rocky soil of So Cal? My yard has top 12" soil that is fill, rest under 12" starts rocky soil.
1. how deep do I need to dig to soften up the bottom?
2. on width, my understanding is to go 2X width of the rootball.
3. Do I amend the fill?

After it rains, the water fills up in the hole and doesnt drain for at least 24 hrs. what do I need to do to make it drain faster?

Recently I planted a hybrid 15-gal plum where I used Mantis Tiller and dug about 2.5 feet deep and 2.5 feet wide. then I mixed organic soil mix, organic fertilizer, azomite, and excavated soil, and pulverized the ingredients completely. then removed the pulverized mix, measured the depth of rootball, and then filled the bottom with the mix leaving enough room for the root ball to be about 1" higher than adjacent grade. then filled around the rootball, watered it down. finally gave it a drench of diluted KLN rooting hormone.

what you folks think?

[barath]

One other trick you could consider is to scoop out a small hole (couple of inches deep by a couple of inches wide) and leave a hose on a very slow trickle in that hole for a week before planting.

I've had bad luck when I amend the soil in place -- it sort of creates a basin / soil-type barrier across which the roots don't easily extend.  I've had a lot better luck dumping the amendments above soil grade along with earthworms from elsewhere in the garden to do the work of mixing the nutrients in.

[ClayMango]

Behl I have that hard California Clay all over, some areas are extremely hard and turn to very sticky wet clay when Wet... So far My Mango Trees seem very happy including dealing with a week straight of a flooded Wet feet when we got the Hard Rains....literally ankle deep in some areas...I have very poor drainage....yet these trees have somehow adapted....I have 20 foot Santa Rosa Plum and a 15 foot cherry tree apparently have thrived under these Hard Clay/Wet Clay conditions.

Even so, I still Mulch heavy around all my trees about 2 inches with organic composted wood chips from Kellogs.

[behlgarden]

good to know. I have a 3-yr grafted mango in ajacent spot and it has not grown much more than 2 feet max. although it gave mangoes last year, its still a weak stump. I might go heavy nitrogen to that.

[barath]

I should have added that one of the benefits of doing a week-long drip in one spot before planting is that you can line up the taproot with that spot when planting so that it has a chance to drill deep into the soil.

[bangkok]

Mango grows well in clay but i would make the soil a little on a slope if you have long wet periods.

Another option is to make a raised bed. Here they sell bricks who are stackable in circles of different sizes. Fill those raise beds with good soil and compost/leaves/grasscuttings and they will do fine.

2 feet of growth in 3 years is very poor, add some cowdung or urea and they will speed up.

[bsbullie]

Mango grows well in clay but i would make the soil a little on a slope if you have long wet periods.

Another option is to make a raised bed. Here they sell bricks who are stackable in circles of different sizes. Fill those raise beds with good soil and compost/leaves/grasscuttings and they will do fine.

2 feet of growth in 3 years is very poor, add some cowdung or urea and they will speed up.

Do not listen to this, he has no clue...

[michsu]

this is not a mango (of course), but just to show you what I did.. this is actually on a slope too..
you have to dig wide and deep (at least 3 or 4 feet deep and wide too).. I'm in Southern CA too, so this might give you some idea hopefully.. 

the first picture is in the 2nd picture too.. the one in the background.. I also notice that you need to widen and deepen the holes every few months.. mine tend to get filled by the soil from above (especially when there is rain)..

for me, I just dig the hole (and add the soil back in later with your fill of fertilizer, steer manure).. then just water it heavily so that the soil can compress (as you can see, still below the level of the "outside circle")..

[behlgarden]

thanks. that is what I have done. I dug some holes 6 months ago and filled them back with fertilizer/soil amendments. now they are covered naturally. I plan on opening them again and see if soil is saturated or just moist. if just moist, then I will go ahead and plant there. sometimes these holes if no proper drainage, turns into mush and soil starts to get rotten smell from other elements. will see how it goes.

[michsu]

I wonder.. what if you bury some PVC pipes in the ground going at an angle around the tree (for example, going down or leading out of the main circle area)? would that help with drainage? When I was digging around on the slope, I noticed some pipes too, but they weren't for the sprinklers.. but I probably don't know what I'm talking about.. 

[behlgarden]

I am thinking about pounding down rebar that will be like drilling holes 12" or more below the bottom of the hole and then pulling them out. that will act as drainage.

[Doglips]

In most cases ammending is somewhere between a bad idea and a terrible idea.
The three main reasons I can think of are,
The ammending material can breakdown causing the tree to sink, potentially too far.
The hole can potentially cause root spin out.
The hole can act like a bucket in the ground holding water at the tree and drowning it.
The above is especially true for clay.
You mileage may vary on this due to soil type.
Raised beds are a different story.  If you drainage issue raised bed may be the easiest way to go.
Removing large rocks would probably be a good idea.

[Doglips]

I am thinking about pounding down rebar that will be like drilling holes 12" or more below the bottom of the hole and then pulling them out. that will act as drainage.

If you soil is poor draining no it won't help.  where is the water draining to?, more poor draining soil?  Granted you are increasing the surface area for the water to be absorbed.  Your drainage will be equal to the area of the hole for the most part, when it is full, no more drainage.
The hole will collapse in any case.

[ClayMango]

I am thinking about pounding down rebar that will be like drilling holes 12" or more below the bottom of the hole and then pulling them out. that will act as drainage.

Most advice I've gotten when it comes to amending is only Mulch the top layer of soil with a few inches of organic material...never mix your planting hole with anymore than 1/3 of other soil mix or organic material...Your tree needs to be in the natural soil around you.... I dont think Wet Feet is an issue for mango trees...maybe while the tree is holding Fruit? but our rain comes in the Winter....sooo. California Clay is actually extremely nutrient rich...I mean we do produce the majority of our Nations crop.

[behlgarden]

ok, I am on top of a bluff, so evevation is good. this part of the house the lawn drains towards this area, then we have 2 feet masonry wall for steel fence. and grade outside the wall slopes further away. I believe it could be footing of the masonry wall or few rocks mixed with clay that is causing water to hold. if I fill the hole, it takes over 24 hrs to empty out. I believe if I break the ice (hard subgrade) via some holes, water will find its way out to softer underground slowly.

[michsu]

That's right, but I have a slope, so it drains down anyway.. I'm not sure of behlgarden though.. is yours on an angle or just flat ground?

[behlgarden]

flat ground but builder graded the lawn in a way that water drains out efficiently. looks like my area drains might not be working properly causing water to seep around in the low lying spots.

[MangoFang]

Behl - I'm with Clay and anyone else that said don't amend the native soil too much in the mix
you put around the root ball.  I also mulch and feed the plant from above....I don't what to do
about your drainage without actually seeing it with my eyes....

Gary

[NathanC]

Wow! Mango can take wet roots? I heard in a question about papaya drainage that you should dig an a deep hole (at least 3ft deep). Then fill a third with uncomposted rice hulls/perlite for drainage. I'm not sure if it's good for the roots, but it should help if clay soil is the issue.

[ClayMango]

I think several members can vouch on the wet feet, My babies went swimming, and are thriving!