Author Topic: Top these cherimoyas?  (Read 22631 times)

wslau

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 749
    • La Palma, CA, USA, Zone 10b
    • View Profile
Re: Top these cherimoyas?
« Reply #25 on: December 04, 2016, 04:16:34 PM »
Underground water shortage issues are the largest in the Central Valley.
Southern California is low, but still okay since water can still be brought in from up north and the eastern Sierra and the Colorado river.... The northern CA part had decent rainfall last year and a good start this year.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2016, 04:25:13 PM by wslau »
Warren

spaugh

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5126
    • San Diego County California
    • View Profile
Re: Top these cherimoyas?
« Reply #26 on: December 04, 2016, 06:04:46 PM »
I have a 150gpm well that costs 20$ a month to run during summer.

Huh?  I thought there was little to no underground water left in SoCal?  I mean if the alphabet 6:00 news spins it as such it must be right, verdad?  ;) 

What a piece of paradise you have or rather made for yourself.

they don't understand where water comes from.  The talking heads and politicians are completely clueless.  Have a look at primary water institute or "bill cox primary water wells".  There are lots of wells making 1000gpm around here.  No tritium, never seen the hydrologic cycle yet.
Brad Spaugh

spaugh

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5126
    • San Diego County California
    • View Profile
Re: Top these cherimoyas?
« Reply #27 on: December 04, 2016, 06:07:21 PM »
The central valley doesnt have the geology to tap into water that is coming up from hundreds of miles deep.  They are sitting on a secondary water aquifer (flood plain) that has a finite supply of water without rainfall.
Brad Spaugh

spaugh

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5126
    • San Diego County California
    • View Profile
Re: Top these cherimoyas?
« Reply #28 on: March 17, 2017, 10:21:55 AM »
Well all 6 cherimoya trees I planted over fall and winter made it.  Every single one of them was NOT rootbound at all.  They all pretty much fell apart when taken out of the nursery pots and I was concerned I damaged roots etc transplanting them.  But they have all started to push new branches and leaves out.  They all got beaten and battered in the rain/wind/cold and had dropped all leaves.  I thought they might have died.  But it looks like they are all alive and well.  Temperatures here the last 6 days:  90, 92, 95, 92, 90, 88.  The heat is making everything grow.  I planted 6 mangos over winter also and all are growing and budding now too.

So the question is, is now a good time to go ahead and trim them down and start shaping them?

Varieties of cherimoyas planted:
2 honeyhart
1 vietnamese
1 Dr White
1 Fino De Jete
1 Booth

If these do well as my avocados I will probably put in 10 or 20 more of them.
Brad Spaugh

simon_grow

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6729
  • USA, San Diego, CA, Zone 10a
    • View Profile
Re: Top these cherimoyas?
« Reply #29 on: March 17, 2017, 01:31:27 PM »
Cherimoyas grow very vertically so cut them down low now before we get extreme heat which will burn your plants. I recommend heading back the main trunk to about 2 feet to promote low scaffold branches for easier pollination and harvesting. Just make sure you Don't cut below the graft line. If you cut now, it should allow your trees to grow leaves before burning temperatures hit.

If you are going to multigraft, I highly recommend you graft very low. What I do for my friends is top to about 18-24 inches and wait for new growth below the cut. You will get many new branches arising from below the cut. I select about 3-5 branches that are evenly spaced to be used as future scaffold branches. I would graft these new branches(future scaffold branches) so that they are low.

Simon

behlgarden

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2353
    • CA, Zone 10 B
    • View Profile
    • LED Bulbs for Landscape Lighting
Re: Top these cherimoyas?
« Reply #30 on: March 17, 2017, 02:27:30 PM »
I cut the head main trunk off at 12 to 18 inches, let it put no more than 3 branches, then each branch allowed to grow no more than 18-24". cap everything at about 6 feet by heavy pruning. every year trees get to 9 feet, get chopped back to 6 feet.

spaugh

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5126
    • San Diego County California
    • View Profile
Re: Top these cherimoyas?
« Reply #31 on: March 17, 2017, 02:59:54 PM »
Something feels really wrong about stumping the trees.  You guys are certain more branches will form even if there are currently no bud sites that low?
Brad Spaugh

spaugh

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5126
    • San Diego County California
    • View Profile
Re: Top these cherimoyas?
« Reply #32 on: March 17, 2017, 03:02:19 PM »
By the way, I am not really planning to do multi grafting.  Or any grafting.  With grafted trees costing 25$ at the nursery and acres of land there isnt much point for me to bother I think.  I already have more projects than I want here.
Brad Spaugh

simon_grow

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6729
  • USA, San Diego, CA, Zone 10a
    • View Profile
Re: Top these cherimoyas?
« Reply #33 on: March 17, 2017, 04:45:42 PM »
Yup, as long as your tree is healthy, even if there are no visible buds, there is an excellent probability that the tree will sprout multiple lower growth from below the cut.

Even if you don't plan on grafting, you should head back the trees. Trust us on this! You don't know how many trees I've had to correct. The owners usually don't want to bring it as low as I suggest so they top off at 4 feet instead of 2 or less and then within a year, the tree is about 10 feet tall or taller.

There is actually a pretty big group of OG rare fruit growers that recently volunteered at a cherimoya orchard to bring down the height of several monstrous trees. The trees became too large at this orchard and the trees became very unproductive. Most the vigor went into vegetative growth and the owner never re invigorated the trees with annual pruning because they were too tall by that point.

Please visit Exotica Nursery or the huge cherimoya tree in front of the Whaley House to see how large these trees can become. Think huge Avocado or mango tree grown in Florida or India.

Simon

boxturtle

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 499
    • usa, ca. garden grove Orange County
    • View Profile
Re: Top these cherimoyas?
« Reply #34 on: March 17, 2017, 05:48:27 PM »
Cherimoyas grow very vertically so cut them down low now before we get extreme heat which will burn your plants. I recommend heading back the main trunk to about 2 feet to promote low scaffold branches for easier pollination and harvesting. Just make sure you Don't cut below the graft line. If you cut now, it should allow your trees to grow leaves before burning temperatures hit.

If you are going to multigraft, I highly recommend you graft very low. What I do for my friends is top to about 18-24 inches and wait for new growth below the cut. You will get many new branches arising from below the cut. I select about 3-5 branches that are evenly spaced to be used as future scaffold branches. I would graft these new branches(future scaffold branches) so that they are low.

Simon

Simon,

how long do you let the new growth grow out before grafting if we want to multi graft?
and how long do you let that grow out before pruning and how far back do you prune?  a

spaugh

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5126
    • San Diego County California
    • View Profile
Re: Top these cherimoyas?
« Reply #35 on: March 17, 2017, 05:54:13 PM »
Ok I lopped them all off at 24in or lower.  Do my mangos need the same treatment?  A few of them are 4 or 5ft tall before any branching. 

Exotica is a jungle, been there seen that.
Brad Spaugh

simon_grow

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6729
  • USA, San Diego, CA, Zone 10a
    • View Profile
Re: Top these cherimoyas?
« Reply #36 on: March 18, 2017, 12:11:57 PM »
Cherimoyas grow very vertically so cut them down low now before we get extreme heat which will burn your plants. I recommend heading back the main trunk to about 2 feet to promote low scaffold branches for easier pollination and harvesting. Just make sure you Don't cut below the graft line. If you cut now, it should allow your trees to grow leaves before burning temperatures hit.

If you are going to multigraft, I highly recommend you graft very low. What I do for my friends is top to about 18-24 inches and wait for new growth below the cut. You will get many new branches arising from below the cut. I select about 3-5 branches that are evenly spaced to be used as future scaffold branches. I would graft these new branches(future scaffold branches) so that they are low.

Simon

Simon,

how long do you let the new growth grow out before grafting if we want to multi graft?
and how long do you let that grow out before pruning and how far back do you prune?  a

After I thin the new growth to just what I want to keep, I let them grow until the diameter of the future scaffold branches are the approximate width of my scion material. I usually leave 1 or 2 more branches than I need in case of failed grafts. If I want 3 varieties, I'll leave about 5 branches and graft doubles of the varieties I really want.

I usually let the branches grow about 18-28 inches and prune. Prune away crossing and thin branches because these thin branches produce inferior fruit. If your tree is newly and appears weak, you may opt to let it grow naturally and establish before starting with o shape the tree. I usually shape immediately because I choose healthy stock to start with.

Simon

spaugh

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5126
    • San Diego County California
    • View Profile
Re: Top these cherimoyas?
« Reply #37 on: April 13, 2017, 03:04:44 PM »
6 out of 6 of my cherimoya trees got lopped off and all are now shotting out new growth.  Several already have little flowers.  They have only been in the ground a few months.  Will post photos in a month after they have grown a foot or 2.
Brad Spaugh

simon_grow

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6729
  • USA, San Diego, CA, Zone 10a
    • View Profile
Re: Top these cherimoyas?
« Reply #38 on: April 13, 2017, 06:55:33 PM »
The Vietnamese could actually be Dr White but I'm not positive, just something I heard through the grapevine. I would recommend El Bumpo, Orton and Pierce if you don't already have those.

Simon

spaugh

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5126
    • San Diego County California
    • View Profile
Re: Top these cherimoyas?
« Reply #39 on: April 13, 2017, 07:20:45 PM »
The Vietnamese could actually be Dr White but I'm not positive, just something I heard through the grapevine. I would recommend El Bumpo, Orton and Pierce if you don't already have those.

Simon

I dont have those types.  Going to give them a year and see how they take the summer heat here and then plant more next year of they are good.  I will get those types then if all is well. So far they are looking happy.  Avocados are doing well.  Mangos are still dormant mostly.  Waiting for them to start flushing.
Brad Spaugh

waxy

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 174
    • San Jose, CA Zone 9B
    • View Profile
Re: Top these cherimoyas?
« Reply #40 on: April 13, 2017, 11:33:20 PM »
My El Bumpo survived the winter outdoors in 9b, we'd have temperatures drop down to 26-28ºF this year it was crazy.
I forgot that I left it outside the greenhouse for a few days and surprisingly it made it.
The leaves did all freeze up and dropped, today everything is sprouting and flowering.
They do grow much faster when kept inside a controlled greenhouse.
In fact, they love it.
« Last Edit: April 13, 2017, 11:35:12 PM by waxy »

Mark in Texas

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4220
    • Fredericksburg Texas, (central TX), zone 8a
    • View Profile
Re: Top these cherimoyas?
« Reply #41 on: April 14, 2017, 09:23:03 AM »
Something feels really wrong about stumping the trees.  You guys are certain more branches will form even if there are currently no bud sites that low?

Absolutely.  Simon is spot on whether it be cherimoya, mango, or avocado.  I/we have cleft of veneer grafted to the watershoots that arise often.  I stubbed a Waldin rootstock, waited and selected 6 good watershoots and grafted a cocktail tree last year.  All 6 scions took, 4 varieties and are fruiting like crazy.  Just gave away 15, 3/8" thick sticks of Ardith for this Saturday's scion exchange in Austin as an example of the vigor.

Here's Sir Prize setting a lot of fruit.  Took the shot yesterday.  (No, I won't let the trees hold a bunch of fruit if any).



Mark in Texas

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4220
    • Fredericksburg Texas, (central TX), zone 8a
    • View Profile
Re: Top these cherimoyas?
« Reply #42 on: April 14, 2017, 09:26:55 AM »

They do grow much faster when kept inside a controlled greenhouse.
In fact, they love it.

I hope so.  We have Pierce, El Bumpo, Selma, Fino De Jete and a few others that have been recently grafted from JF's offers.

I let my greenhouse drop to 34F every winter which should be good for cherimoyas, right?  I'm just worried about our summer heat which lasts about 4-5 months out of the year.

spaugh

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5126
    • San Diego County California
    • View Profile
Re: Top these cherimoyas?
« Reply #43 on: April 14, 2017, 11:56:08 AM »
This little guy was 5 or 6 ft tall.  It was pictured in the 1st post of this thread many months ago.  Lopped it off a month or so ago when we talked about it and it is growing nicely.

Brad Spaugh

Bush2Beach

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2141
    • Santa Cruz, California Sunset Zone 17
    • View Profile
Re: Top these cherimoyas?
« Reply #44 on: April 14, 2017, 12:21:50 PM »
I'm in a similar climate and have been growing Cherimoya for several years. The 1-2 year old seedlings like overhead winter protection but when I put them in the greenhouse it is too humid in the cold of winter and they die from wet humid soil conditions. Temperature drops to 26 to 28 degrees is quite typical in different parts of the Bay Area.
 Cherimoya leaves molt overly April so perhaps your leaves did not freeze but are molting for the season.
My cherimoya tree's much prefer the great outdoors.


My El Bumpo survived the winter outdoors in 9b, we'd have temperatures drop down to 26-28ºF this year it was crazy.
I forgot that I left it outside the greenhouse for a few days and surprisingly it made it.
The leaves did all freeze up and dropped, today everything is sprouting and flowering.
They do grow much faster when kept inside a controlled greenhouse.
In fact, they love it.

behlgarden

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2353
    • CA, Zone 10 B
    • View Profile
    • LED Bulbs for Landscape Lighting
Re: Top these cherimoyas?
« Reply #45 on: April 14, 2017, 12:32:24 PM »
This little guy was 5 or 6 ft tall.  It was pictured in the 1st post of this thread many months ago.  Lopped it off a month or so ago when we talked about it and it is growing nicely.



If you want good shape, dont let low branches get longer than 12 inches. normally I let it grow 18 inches, then I cut at 12-14 inches, and remove leaf exposing node on either side for it to start branching out.

fyliu

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3216
    • Burbank/Covina, CA 10a
    • View Profile
Re: Top these cherimoyas?
« Reply #46 on: April 14, 2017, 01:10:15 PM »
If you want good shape, dont let low branches get longer than 12 inches. normally I let it grow 18 inches, then I cut at 12-14 inches, and remove leaf exposing node on either side for it to start branching out.
Sounds good.
So you strip leaves on these even after the spring to encourage more growth?
I started a new garden this year and have 5 cherimoyas that I grafted various varieties onto. Trying to do it correctly from the start using the current best practice. They're all 2-3 ft tall right now.

Viking Guy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 787
  • AKME Gardens
    • USA, AL, Silverhill, 8B
    • View Profile
    • AKME Gardens Website
Re: Top these cherimoyas?
« Reply #47 on: April 14, 2017, 01:38:28 PM »
If you want good shape, dont let low branches get longer than 12 inches. normally I let it grow 18 inches, then I cut at 12-14 inches, and remove leaf exposing node on either side for it to start branching out.
Sounds good.
So you strip leaves on these even after the spring to encourage more growth?
I started a new garden this year and have 5 cherimoyas that I grafted various varieties onto. Trying to do it correctly from the start using the current best practice. They're all 2-3 ft tall right now.

I just wait for the tree to tell me.  Once I see it discoloring the leaves, I let about half turn yellow so it pulls good energy and then strip them all off.  New growth will be there in no time.

JF

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6652
  • North OC California Zone 10B/America Tropical 13A
    • 90631/97000
    • View Profile
Re: Top these cherimoyas?
« Reply #48 on: April 14, 2017, 01:47:07 PM »
Pierce is still king with 30brix



fyliu

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3216
    • Burbank/Covina, CA 10a
    • View Profile
Re: Top these cherimoyas?
« Reply #49 on: April 14, 2017, 02:15:38 PM »
Pierce is still king with 30brix



That's a huge one JF. A friend did get a big 6lb AP like that at the first Irvine cherimoya tasting years ago. 2011 maybe. Those were the good years.