Does Cold Hardy Mango exist?

[WGphil]

It was cold and wet this winter.   The Fairchild mango I have is full grown and too tall to worry about during cold. 

When it was small I wrapped it in cloth each year during the worst cold.    It has produced well and now it has grown past being able to wrap it 

It didn't flower at all until after the worst  was over this season.   No growth and just sat there until some warm came back.  So in a way, I think the tree did what it could by being somewhat dormant due to weeks of cooler and cold weather.   When the worst cold of the year hit, the tree  had been under cold conditions and not as natural active as it could have been.   

The Young flowered and produced 11 fruit this season but started almost a month ahead of the Fairchild during some of the worst of the cold. 

Our elevation is about a hundred feet or more higher over the coast, so we get some warm in a different way.  Our town being on the southeast shore of a huge lake helps also. 

I lost a sunburst tangerine grove once but it was 22 at noon that day.  It had been in the 80's for most of the winter.  Those trees were full on in growth form and they were blowing up like firecrackers in the night as the bark blew up.  If your trees have been cold, they have a better chance than if they are in active form and warm.  I don't baby mine as I want them to be as close to a dormant state as you can get. 

The grove is about 25 miles due west and there is not much chance in hell I can grow mango there like I do here. 



Temps are warmer south and east which tells you where to put the wind protection.   Northwest. 

[starch]

The Problem with Tim is he claims he trialed mangos from all over the world for cold hardiness before he launched his breading, more accurately Kent, Haden Tommy store bought seeds, project. He actually scoured the usda grin for budwood and claims none survived our climate lol....this motivated his breading program. As Behl points out Chausan might be a true cold hardy mango as well as Manohar(seedling of Chaunsa)anwar ratol, dussehri and Sindhri( only one available in the GRIN). These Indian and Pakistani mangos are probably as close to cold hardy mangos that you could find.

Is there a way to get hold of these Indian/Pakistani mangos or are they science station type stuff only. I am in 9b and keep a Graham in a pot, but would really rather have an in-ground that doesn't freeze to the ground every year from the slightest freeze.

I am with Tropheus, my climate is very marginal for growing mangos. I protect them with C9 Christmas lights and frost cloth for the few night a year it drops slightly below freezing here. Eventually the trees will become too large for this to be practical. So a mango that has a few more degrees a cold tolerance would make a huge difference for me! I would love to get some scions of the cold hardy Indian / Pakistani mangos that JF mentions (Chausan, Manohar, Anwar Ratol, Dussehri, Sindhri). Does anybody cultivate and provide scions for these varieties?

[greenman62]

I am with Tropheus, my climate is very marginal for growing mangos. I protect them with C9 Christmas lights and frost cloth for the few night a year it drops slightly below freezing here. Eventually the trees will become too large for this to be practical. So a mango that has a few more degrees a cold tolerance would make a huge difference for me! I would love to get some scions of the cold hardy Indian / Pakistani mangos that JF mentions (Chausan, Manohar, Anwar Ratol, Dussehri, Sindhri). Does anybody cultivate and provide scions for these varieties?

i wouldnt mind having scions of those either
or seed... now, i really want Chausan seeds

starch,
not sure if you had read, but i posted that Mallika has Dussehri as one of the parents.
the other parent is Neelam, which i think is also originally from  North India
I am in zone 9b also. i might buy a Mallika just to see...

i got seeds from member "future" for Neelam and Kesar

[starch]

starch,
not sure if you had read, but i posted that Mallika has Dussehri as one of the parents.
the other parent is Neelam, which i think is also originally from  North India
I am in zone 9b also. i might buy a Mallika just to see...

I did read that. That is potentially very encouraging! I had a Mallika once, but it died in my summer. The plant was damaged in shipping so it already had an iffy shot of making it (maybe some root shock). But probably the biggest factor was my ineptitude in taking care of it. I was too eager to get it established, I really should have babied it more when I got it.

I think I will try to find some scions and give Mallika another shot, Thanks!

[Mangorilla the Uslurper]

There may or may not be a hardier mango yet but it's going to be the guys planting seeds in colder areas that will develop it. Keep planting seeds. Maybe you won't see the "fruit" of your labor but your kids or grandkids might. Forward thinking people don't get bogged down by the naysayers

[JF]

The Problem with Tim is he claims he trialed mangos from all over the world for cold hardiness before he launched his breading, more accurately Kent, Haden Tommy store bought seeds, project. He actually scoured the usda grin for budwood and claims none survived our climate lol....this motivated his breading program. As Behl points out Chausan might be a true cold hardy mango as well as Manohar(seedling of Chaunsa)anwar ratol, dussehri and Sindhri( only one available in the GRIN). These Indian and Pakistani mangos are probably as close to cold hardy mangos that you could find.

Is there a way to get hold of these Indian/Pakistani mangos or are they science station type stuff only. I am in 9b and keep a Graham in a pot, but would really rather have an in-ground that doesn't freeze to the ground every year from the slightest freeze.

I am with Tropheus, my climate is very marginal for growing mangos. I protect them with C9 Christmas lights and frost cloth for the few night a year it drops slightly below freezing here. Eventually the trees will become too large for this to be practical. So a mango that has a few more degrees a cold tolerance would make a huge difference for me! I would love to get some scions of the cold hardy Indian / Pakistani mangos that JF mentions (Chausan, Manohar, Anwar Ratol, Dussehri, Sindhri). Does anybody cultivate and provide scions for these varieties?

We are maybe a year  or two away from releasing Manohar. The tree is vigorous and doing very well. On SoCal. It bloomed heavy this spring but we decided to hold off one more year before we let it fruit. We hope to propagated with chaunsa and sindhiri as a cocktail tree but first things first let's see how it fruits here.

[starch]

We are maybe a year  or two away from releasing Manohar. The tree is vigorous and doing very well. On SoCal. It bloomed heavy this spring but we decided to hold off one more year before we let it fruit. We hope to propagated with chaunsa and sindhiri as a cocktail tree but first things first let's see how it fruits here.

That is wonderful news, please keep us posted! I am definitely on the 'very interested' list

[bsbullie]

I dont think people realize the process needed when experimenting with seeds.  Its not just plant a seed, let it fruit in a few years and away we go.  The plant will need to be monitored for many years for the following:  fruit quality, tree characteristics such as cold tolerance, disease resistance, growth habit, etc.  These are all things that can, and usually do, change from year to year while the tree is in a juvenile/devellopment stage.  You will then need to see how it reacts when grafted, and even grown in different locations.  This process can easily take upwards of ten or more years.  This is not usually accomplished by planting one seed either.

Those who are planting seeds especially of mono varieties (for example the Indian varieties), keep in mind you may invest years, space, cost to find out you have a fibrous piece of crap that will need to be cut down.  This experimenting is usually done by people who invest their life into it and have plenty of space.

Look, I am all for people who have the time and space to take this on but most have no idea what they are getting into.  Gary Zill did not just throw out some seeds like Jack and the Beanstalk and get these top varieties in a few years.  He invested many many years and lots of time, space and money to get to where things are.  There is a reason he is not doing it again.

Just my 2 pennies on the subject...

[behlgarden]

I agree with Rob,

on another note, we hit 27 for two days in a row where I live, and we got snow too, I did not lose any single graft or tree. I did few things to prevent grafts from freezing,
1. I bubble wrapped the union and portion of scion.
2. I set water sprinklers to go on around 3 AM
3. Kept plants hydrated.

I did get few diebacks on branch here or there and some leaf burn, but I quickly removed such things from the plant.

Seeds are tricky, and a cold hardy mango seed many not come true to parent anyway.

[Mangorilla the Uslurper]

I dont think people realize the process needed when experimenting with seeds.  Its not just plant a seed, let it fruit in a few years and away we go.  The plant will need to be monitored for many years for the following:  fruit quality, tree characteristics such as cold tolerance, disease resistance, growth habit, etc.  These are all things that can, and usually do, change from year to year while the tree is in a juvenile/devellopment stage.  You will then need to see how it reacts when grafted, and even grown in different locations.  This process can easily take upwards of ten or more years.  This is not usually accomplished by planting one seed either.

Those who are planting seeds especially of mono varieties (for example the Indian varieties), keep in mind you may invest years, space, cost to find out you have a fibrous piece of crap that will need to be cut down.  This experimenting is usually done by people who invest their life into it and have plenty of space.

Look, I am all for people who have the time and space to take this on but most have no idea what they are getting into.  Gary Zill did not just throw out some seeds like Jack and the Beanstalk and get these top varieties in a few years.  He invested many many years and lots of time, space and money to get to where things are.  There is a reason he is not doing it again.

Just my 2 pennies on the subject...

That's is an important point Rob. Anyone thinking of doing this has to know that failure is the most likely result. That being said I would encourage anyone that has a spot to try growing some fruit from seed. Every effort is worth a shot. Zills approach is one way to develop new things and obviously worked extremely well. If thousands of home owners each planted one seed that's another way. BTW 30 years ago my father planted 1000 mango trees from seed on the same property I'm working with these days. The same year every last seedling was killed by frost. Needless to say he gave up on fruit and starred raising livestock. So anyway... I'm not unaware of the risk. On the contrary I'm extremely concerned about if.

[behlgarden]

I am doing just that. I have 2-yr seedlings of Coconut Cream, Lemon Zest, and Fruit Punch.  My plan is to graft half of these seedling branches with true parent wood and leave rest of the half to become adult and fruit at some point. this way if in 5 plus years I get crappy fruit, I wouldn't have wasted my time as I would have the tree also hold true parents that also grew in 5-years.  Its worth every bit to try seedlings to fruit. this is the only way to get new top tier varieties slowly.

[Mangorilla the Uslurper]

I am doing just that. I have 2-yr seedlings of Coconut Cream, Lemon Zest, and Fruit Punch.  My plan is to graft half of these seedling branches with true parent wood and leave rest of the half to become adult and fruit at some point. this way if in 5 plus years I get crappy fruit, I wouldn't have wasted my time as I would have the tree also hold true parents that also grew in 5-years.  Its worth every bit to try seedlings to fruit. this is the only way to get new top tier varieties slowly.

That's a smart way to do it. I have 3 trees from seed and I was planing on top working them if they ever produce bad fruit. If anyone ever gets a truly cold tolerant tree no matter how bad it tasted that would be a special tree. 

[JF]

Chaunsa as sweet as Gary (brix29) with a chalky complex taste this mango is top 10....but imagine Manohar a seedling of Chaunsa is a better overall mango

[starch]

Chaunsa as sweet as Gary (brix29) with a chalky complex taste this mango is top 10....but imagine Manohar a seedling of Chaunsa is a better overall mango

Nice! Out of curiosity (and to be on the complete opposite end of what this post is about) what is the peak summer high temperatures where this tree was grown?

[Pancrazio]

Are we talking about snow surviving mangoes? 

[Mangorilla the Uslurper]

Omg that's a mango!!!! No way!!

[barath]

Pancrazio -- that's amazing!  How did the tree handle the snow and cold?  Did you protect the roots in any way as well?  How cold was the air temperature?

[Pancrazio]

That's a mango, but that's not my mango. It is in fact a mango grown from a person living about 600 miles southern than me (picture posted with permission).

This is the plant 4 days after the snow depicted in the previous picture:


The minimum air temperature registered was -1.7C (28.94F) with a total of 11 hours under zero celsius (32F).

[Mangorilla the Uslurper]

That's amazing and inspiring

[ScottR]

WOW!!! Thanks for posting

[greenman62]

The minimum air temperature registered was -1.7C (28.94F) with a total of 11 hours under zero celsius (32F).

thats pretty close to the temps we had last winter.
some years, it never gets below 30-32F
every 3-4 years it hits 27-28F, and usually only for a couple of hours.
Sun in New Orleans warms thing up fast, and the soil temps move much more slowly
My Florigon was left out while i was in the middle of constructing my greenhouse
it experienced 28F for a few hours in a container.
a few leaf tips were burned, nothing else.

I am a little more worried about it hurting flowers and small fruit,
than complete death of the tree.
Maybe taking into consideration the time of flowering would make a difference...

[simon_grow]

Pancrazio, that mango may be a candidate for clonal rootstock although ice and snow may act as a natural barrier to protect the plant from dropping much below freezing point. That picture is one of the most promising I've seen regarding a mangos ability to survive in snowy conditions.

Simon

[Pancrazio]

Simon, in my experience, till you see fresh snow or is still snowing, things aren't going to be too bad. The snow for sure is a wonderful insulator. In the case of the picture the snow may have reflected some soil heat back to earth, keeping the temperature of the canopy close to 0 or just slightly under. This must be true because those mangoes have been thriving in an environment with 65-68F for days till few hours before the snow, and in that case the soil has huge quantities of heat to release. I didn't take any pic back then, but few years ago we got snow in my city and i already got my first two mangoes.  Those plant sat quite happily in my snow-covered unheated greenhouse, while the temperature outside dropped till 17F. In my greenhouse they never dropped under 34F and i'm sure this is due the snow covered roof that thankfully i didn't remove.
I will ask the owner what kind of plant it is (it may be a seedling) but chances are that it may be just a Kensington Pride or a Kensington pride seedling.
I was about to say that climate in Sicily is colder than most places where the user of this forum operate, and a slower metabolism may have helped with frost tolerance with that mangoes, but then i remembered that mangoes apparently don't take advantages from acclimatization so this may not be the case.

[Delvi83]

Yes, in Sicily the temperature is never too high during winter.....temperature above 65F are very rare. As said by Pancrazio this could be the reason why those mangos survived during that event.
It would be interesting understand if there is a sort of acclimatization also for Mango...may be what we know is imperfect and other mechanisms have be understood....I think it's not impossible to have more cold-hardy mangos..


P.s.

Just for fun....are there some related specie that could be hybrided with Mango as it happened for citrus with P.trifoliata?

[simon_grow]

I just happened upon this video. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=01lNJiAvye8

The guy says that the Antonio Mango was given to him by someone in the Arizona Rare Fruit Grower Association and it is supposed to be one of the most cold hardy mangos capable of surviving temps into the 20s. What do you think?

Simon