Author Topic: white sapote grafting - video and questions (Read 7430 times)

Tomas · « **on:** August 18, 2013, 10:37:32 AM »

Hi,

I just watched this video to learn about cleft grafting with white sapote (it's the 2nd part of the video):

WhiteSapoteGrafting.m4v

Two things I don't understand about the cleft grafting in the video:

1. Why don't you put the scion in the middle of the stem?
2. Isn't it ideal if the scion and rootstock have the same thickness when you do a cleft graft?

Tomas

FlyingFoxFruits · « **Reply #1 on:** August 18, 2013, 10:52:18 AM »

Tomas,

when your scion has a smaller diameter than your rootstock, you'll have to off set the scion to the left or right to make the cambium align properly.

it is ideal to have the equal sized rootstocks and scions, but its nice to not have to worry too much about scion size...having the flexibility to put a scion where ever you please is an advantage.

plantlover13 · « **Reply #2 on:** August 18, 2013, 11:07:31 AM »

I've always, wondered, in cleft grafts, the cut into the rootstock is always the diameter, and the scion (when smaller) is placed so that one half of the cambium touches the rootstock cambium. However, what would happen if, instead of cutting down the diameter of the rootstock, you cut "off center" in a way that the width of the cut equals the diameter of the scio, and you can have both halves matching?

FlyingFoxFruits · « **Reply #3 on:** August 18, 2013, 11:42:45 AM »

Quote from: plantlover13 on August 18, 2013, 11:07:31 AM

I've always, wondered, in cleft grafts, the cut into the rootstock is always the diameter, and the scion (when smaller) is placed so that one half of the cambium touches the rootstock cambium. However, what would happen if, instead of cutting down the diameter of the rootstock, you cut "off center" in a way that the width of the cut equals the diameter of the scio, and you can have both halves matching?

Plantlover,

that's exactly what I'm talking about....I didn't notice the man in the video was doing some other types of grafts, which I thought were quite different that what I call a cleft.

I always off set the the scion, cutting the rootstock off center.

the grafter in the video has a way of cutting his scions that scares me! I could never cut like he does...or I'd only have half my thumb left.

plantlover13 · « **Reply #4 on:** August 18, 2013, 12:13:03 PM »

Oh. I thought you were talking about what i had always heard, cut the rootstock on the diameter, and then put the scion off center in that cut so that only one side of the cambium layers match up.

FlyingFoxFruits · « **Reply #5 on:** August 18, 2013, 12:21:04 PM »

Quote from: plantlover13 on August 18, 2013, 12:13:03 PM

Oh. I thought you were talking about what i had always heard, cut the rootstock on the diameter, and then put the scion off center in that cut so that only one side of the cambium layers match up.

yes...u are talking about what I'm thinking...just like this graft below on a Tori loquort

plantlover13 · « **Reply #6 on:** August 18, 2013, 12:42:01 PM »

Exactly!!!!!!

Jack, Nipomo · « **Reply #7 on:** August 18, 2013, 02:10:37 PM »

Problem is, that is a weak union. Cutting through the woody part in the center of the stock plant, then offsetting the scion to align the cambium on one side (different diameters), has the wood of the stock plant protecting the scion instead of just the strength of the (essentially) bark.. Even grafting larger stock with smaller scions will be grown over in a few years.

FlyingFoxFruits · « **Reply #8 on:** August 18, 2013, 02:27:28 PM »

Quote from: Jack, Nipomo on August 18, 2013, 02:10:37 PM

Problem is, that is a weak union. Cutting through the woody part in the center of the stock plant, then offsetting the scion to align the cambium on one side (different diameters), has the wood of the stock plant protecting the scion instead of just the strength of the (essentially) bark.. Even grafting larger stock with smaller scions will be grown over in a few years.

very good point!

Jack, Nipomo · « **Reply #9 on:** August 18, 2013, 03:02:45 PM »

35 year old cleft graft, Vernon on Pike white sapote

Last year's graft, offset, white sapote

Jack, Nipomo · « **Reply #10 on:** August 18, 2013, 03:08:07 PM »

2 years ago graft, healed, covered over, white sapote

This year's graft, white sapote, stock and scion same diameter

Cleft graft not completely grown over, white sapote, Walton

Tomas · « **Reply #11 on:** August 18, 2013, 03:10:07 PM »

Those are great pictures Jack. That's a big old trunk you grafted onto last year on that picture. It looks like it's never too late to graft. I am absorbing everything about grafting with all my senses.

Tomas

Jack, Nipomo · « **Reply #12 on:** August 18, 2013, 03:16:43 PM »

That big old trunk with my finger is the first tree I planted and grafted 35 years ago (added Vernon to Pike). Been adding ever since. We were fortunate to get into Bob Chamber's white sapote grove and his collection to get scionwood. Bob, 89 years old, has quite a collection. His favorite is ROA, his wife's Clytia. Haven't had fruit from new grafts yet, but ate plenty at his grove. The 35 year old tree is dangerous to walk under as there is so much fruit on the ground. It is also a HUGE tree. Need a smaller breed of these wonderful trees!

turgut · « **Reply #13 on:** June 09, 2014, 02:06:21 PM »

hi
My white sapota tree
adam help here because of my friend thank you very much

nexxogen · « **Reply #14 on:** September 24, 2020, 09:47:48 AM »

I've planted two white sapote seedlings on my property on the Montenegrin coastline. We grow citrus here normally (though it is preferred for lemons to be planted near south facing walls; at least it was before the weather became warmer in the last decade). I plan to protect them during this first winter, just to be safe.

I was wondering, what is the best time to graft white sapote? Also, what would be the best time to take scion wood? Is it like with deciduous fruit trees, where scion wood is taken during winter and then stored in the fridge until spring, or does white sapote work differently, as an evergreen? If my trees survive the winter, I would like to graft good varieties onto them, but since I don't live near the property, I have to plan my time in advance.

Bush2Beach · « **Reply #15 on:** September 24, 2020, 11:53:14 AM »

Graft white sapote when rootstock and scion are pushing new growth.
Shade the graft and you should be fine

K-Rimes · « **Reply #16 on:** September 24, 2020, 01:04:08 PM »

White sapote has been as easy as mulberry to graft for me, basically 100% takes. I even had success with some wacko bark veneer grafts.

nexxogen · « **Reply #17 on:** September 24, 2020, 01:34:09 PM »

Quote from: Bush2Beach on September 24, 2020, 11:53:14 AM

Graft white sapote when rootstock and scion are pushing new growth.
Shade the graft and you should be fine

So that means spring? Pretty much the same as most other fruits? But I guess the scion wood would have to be cut at about the same time. Can I store it for a few days in the fridge?

Quote from: K-Rimes on September 24, 2020, 01:04:08 PM

White sapote has been as easy as mulberry to graft for me, basically 100% takes. I even had success with some wacko bark veneer grafts.

That's what I've heard about it. The grafting part won't be a problem, I'm just trying to get the timing right.

K-Rimes · « **Reply #18 on:** September 24, 2020, 02:20:54 PM »

Quote from: nexxogen on September 24, 2020, 01:34:09 PM

Quote from: Bush2Beach on September 24, 2020, 11:53:14 AM
Graft white sapote when rootstock and scion are pushing new growth.
Shade the graft and you should be fine

So that means spring? Pretty much the same as most other fruits? But I guess the scion wood would have to be cut at about the same time. Can I store it for a few days in the fridge?

Quote from: K-Rimes on September 24, 2020, 01:04:08 PM
White sapote has been as easy as mulberry to graft for me, basically 100% takes. I even had success with some wacko bark veneer grafts.

That's what I've heard about it. The grafting part won't be a problem, I'm just trying to get the timing right.

I grafted twice this year. First in the spring, few takes, and then later closer to summer - almost all takes. My scion quality was really good from Bush2Beach on the second go, so probably why.

I think later spring when the tree is fully out of dormancy is best imo. Someone else may chime in who has more experience.

sc4001992 · « **Reply #19 on:** September 24, 2020, 08:42:48 PM »

You can graft white sapote now (in Calif) and they will take quickly and grow fast. Here's one that I did 4 wks ago, grew about 6" in a month.
Should be good for grafting for another month.

sc4001992 · « **Reply #20 on:** September 24, 2020, 08:55:44 PM »

I agree with Kevin, I got many of my new white sapote scions from Jonah (Bush2Beach) and they are all doing well. I grafted a Lemon Gold at end of March and the branch is 6 feet long now, had to cut it back a few times.

nexxogen · « **Reply #21 on:** September 25, 2020, 02:32:17 AM »

OK, as far as I understood, you can graft it anytime, as long as it's not cold. What about storing scion wood? Has anyone had experience with that?

Rauf · « **Reply #22 on:** October 20, 2020, 01:12:02 PM »

Hi, Nexxogen. I'm in the same situation - if i order it and there will be no opportunity to graft the scions immediately because of some reasons ( job, cold weather in my region 9a ), I should think about how to store them. Could you find the answer?

Bush2Beach · « **Reply #23 on:** October 21, 2020, 03:17:01 PM »

order fresh scion when your rootstock is growing. Best to not store scion long for white sapote.

Thank you both, Kevin & Kaz.

ScottR · « **Reply #24 on:** October 21, 2020, 05:01:13 PM »

Older wood can be stored for up to 1-month but always better to us fresh as possible. I store in vegetable crisper in refrigerator with moist paper towel rung out of excess water and double bag of plastic bags.
Younger greener wood will not store as long.

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Author Topic: white sapote grafting - video and questions (Read 7430 times)