Author Topic: Annona scleroderma (cawesh, posh-te) (Read 12069 times)

FlyingFoxFruits · « **on:** July 13, 2012, 11:57:47 AM »

I've been growing a plant my friend gave me.

the tree is more fickle than I thought!

judging by the leaves (sometimes stupid idea) I gave it the same treatment as my guanabana, but scleroderma seemed to dislike full sun (at 3 ft tall, I thought would be ready)...I had to move to the shade to keep from looking like it was gonna die.

also noticed it doesn't like high ph...I think high ph with too much sun was my prob...but maybe just high ph?

any whips from the tizards?

Mike T · « **Reply #1 on:** July 13, 2012, 10:26:18 PM »

Saff there is a 45 foot tall poshte in a park I visited about a fortnight ago.It is growing in full sun,booming,covered in flowers and healthy and the soil pH is between 5.5 and 6.I noticed the seedlings beneath were sprouting in shade of the tree more than in full sun as the council has not sprayed them yet.I presume they need shade when young and may not be sunlovers until 5 or 6 feet and prefer acidic, well drained soil.

Guanabanus · « **Reply #2 on:** July 13, 2012, 10:35:55 PM »

I am very glad cawesh is doing well in Hawai'i and Australia. So far our various introductions to Florida have been losers. I would like to see it tried again with mycorrhizae and other soil inoculants.

Mike T · « **Reply #3 on:** July 13, 2012, 10:47:12 PM »

Guanabus while on the topic of unsuccessful and dubious introductions to Florida do you know if the real kwai muk ie the smaller species with the good fruit ever made it?
http://rfcarchives.org.au/Next/Fruits/Jakfruit/KwaiMuk11-87.htm

fruitlovers · « **Reply #4 on:** July 13, 2012, 11:00:31 PM »

Quote from: ASaffron on July 13, 2012, 11:57:47 AM

I've been growing a plant my friend gave me.

the tree is more fickle than I thought!

judging by the leaves (sometimes stupid idea) I gave it the same treatment as my guanabana, but scleroderma seemed to dislike full sun (at 3 ft tall, I thought would be ready)...I had to move to the shade to keep from looking like it was gonna die.

also noticed it doesn't like high ph...I think high ph with too much sun was my prob...but maybe just high ph?

any whips from the tizards?

I start the poshte (aka cawesh) in partial shade, but once a couple of feet tall they can go full sun. Must be another problem, like pH. Mine are flowering heavily right now. I think i'm gonna have to hand pollinate them to get a decent fruit set. Only a couple of fruits set last time around and i think the chalcid bettle stung them both. So i've yet to taste this fruit.

siafu · « **Reply #5 on:** July 14, 2012, 07:23:42 AM »

Quote from: Mike T on July 13, 2012, 10:47:12 PM

Guanabus while on the topic of unsuccessful and dubious introductions to Florida do you know if the real kwai muk ie the smaller species with the good fruit ever made it?
http://rfcarchives.org.au/Next/Fruits/Jakfruit/KwaiMuk11-87.htm

Mike, I can answer that. My Kwai muk is descended from a fruiting tree from Florida.
I believe Oscar's trees, in Hawaii, also came from said tree.

My tree produced its first fruit last summer and is blooming again. That single fruit had a single seed.
The seed was viable and once the seedling is a bit larger, I'm going to give it to a local friend.

Soon, this tree will have family all over the world. Isn't that amazing!!!

Mike T · « **Reply #6 on:** July 14, 2012, 07:47:08 AM »

Saifu that is very interesting and that tree must be like global plankton.So was that original tree a A.lingnamensis wrongly identified as A.hypargyraeus and the error has never been fixed? I suppose that single fruit was 2 inches,yellow with deep orange flesh.
A friend hunted down various kwai muks with a view to having the best one and preferably a small cv.He has it now and it is an early winter fruiter whereas I understand they usually fruit in late summer.I better get some seeds and make them go planktonic as well if they are good enough.

HMHausman · « **Reply #7 on:** July 14, 2012, 08:23:26 AM »

Quote from: Mike T on July 13, 2012, 10:47:12 PM

Guanabus while on the topic of unsuccessful and dubious introductions to Florida do you know if the real kwai muk ie the smaller species with the good fruit ever made it?
http://rfcarchives.org.au/Next/Fruits/Jakfruit/KwaiMuk11-87.htm

I have a Kwai Muk tree that I believe I orginally got while visiting Zill's High Performance Plants with the Sub Tropical Fruit Class. In fact, it was Har (Guanabanus) that hosted us at that time and it was from him that I got the seedling. No iea where that seedling had origianlly come from. Perhaps Har will remember. That was in 1995, I believe. My tree has fruited quite religiously until this year. No fruit set at all this year and I have no idea if the lack of cold and very wet winter was the reason or if it had some other issue. The tree did develop some fairly serious chlorisis this past 6 months and now has recovered after minor element application. The fruits are quite good on my tree. I liken them to a fig sized pinkish-orangish fleshed jakfruit with some nice subacid/sweet flavor.

Harry

FlyingFoxFruits · « **Reply #8 on:** July 14, 2012, 09:35:32 AM »

Quote from: Guanabanus on July 13, 2012, 10:35:55 PM

I am very glad cawesh is doing well in Hawai'i and Australia. So far our various introductions to Florida have been losers. I would like to see it tried again with mycorrhizae and other soil inoculants.

looks like another case where we could have fruited this one in a large pot.

I bet all intoductions so far were planted in lime rock.

the tree I have has been given micorrhizae, and will be pot bound for life.

wish me luck.

Guanabanus · « **Reply #9 on:** July 14, 2012, 04:36:06 PM »

I don't remember where the Zills got Kwai Muk.

Kwai Muk can get as big as any oak tree, with massive lateral branches.

I have never looked into the classification of Kwai Muk.

Guanabanus · « **Reply #10 on:** July 14, 2012, 04:42:03 PM »

Oscar,
The two trees of Annona scleroderma, whose flowers I used, both shed pollen in late afternoon or early evening.

Unlike the other three-petaled Annona species you are used to, these petals remain in the apparent female stance (narrow aperture). When pollen dehiscence occurs, all the anthers and petals can be on the ground within less than half-an-hour.

FlyingFoxFruits · « **Reply #11 on:** July 14, 2012, 07:02:06 PM »

I moved my tree back out into more sun.

it should be 5 feet, but got stumped to 2ft by high ph.

I hope it fruits early from all the stress I've put it through! like i believe some of my rollinias do!

BTW!!! this reminds me!

I got a 3.5ft grafted rollinia today!!! I'm excited to see her perform! it was only 15 bucks!!!

and my friend who sold it to me, wouldn't tell me where he got it! BOO HOO!

fruitlovers · « **Reply #12 on:** July 15, 2012, 03:39:21 AM »

Quote from: siafu on July 14, 2012, 07:23:42 AM

Quote from: Mike T on July 13, 2012, 10:47:12 PM
Guanabus while on the topic of unsuccessful and dubious introductions to Florida do you know if the real kwai muk ie the smaller species with the good fruit ever made it?
http://rfcarchives.org.au/Next/Fruits/Jakfruit/KwaiMuk11-87.htm

Mike, I can answer that. My Kwai muk is descended from a fruiting tree from Florida.
I believe Oscar's trees, in Hawaii, also came from said tree.

My tree produced its first fruit last summer and is blooming again. That single fruit had a single seed.
The seed was viable and once the seedling is a bit larger, I'm going to give it to a local friend.

Soon, this tree will have family all over the world. Isn't that amazing!!!

Yes Sergio, got kwai muk from same source as you: Jim in Florida. I believe he collected the seeds from a kwai muk tree in Mounts Botanical Garden. I later got more kwai muks from another fellow in Florida. He sent me seeds from 3 different trees in Florida. I've heard there's quite a few trees of kwai muk in Florida.

fruitlovers · « **Reply #13 on:** July 15, 2012, 03:44:31 AM »

Quote from: Mike T on July 14, 2012, 07:47:08 AM

Saifu that is very interesting and that tree must be like global plankton.So was that original tree a A.lingnamensis wrongly identified as A.hypargyraeus and the error has never been fixed? I suppose that single fruit was 2 inches,yellow with deep orange flesh.
A friend hunted down various kwai muks with a view to having the best one and preferably a small cv.He has it now and it is an early winter fruiter whereas I understand they usually fruit in late summer.I better get some seeds and make them go planktonic as well if they are good enough.

Mike i believe accepted name of kwai muk is hypargyraeus, and that lingnanensis is a synonym.
BTW, here is an article from Florida back from 1984 on Kwai Muk:
http://www.fshs.org/Proceedings/Password%20Protected/1984%20Vol.%2097/318-319%20(CAMPBELL).pdf

Mike T · « **Reply #14 on:** July 15, 2012, 04:32:18 AM »

Oscar thanks for clearing that up because it had me confused to the point of thinking they were seperate.Old lists of local Artocarpus only listed one, but some references and that link I posted made me think twice and question what my eyes have seen.Have a stickybeak at my districts' 1988 artocarpus selection.
http://rfcarchives.org.au/Next/Fruits/Jakfruit/ArtocarpusGuide.htm

fruitlovers · « **Reply #15 on:** July 15, 2012, 11:58:49 PM »

Quote from: Guanabanus on July 14, 2012, 04:42:03 PM

Oscar,
The two trees of Annona scleroderma, whose flowers I used, both shed pollen in late afternoon or early evening.

Unlike the other three-petaled Annona species you are used to, these petals remain in the apparent female stance (narrow aperture). When pollen dehiscence occurs, all the anthers and petals can be on the ground within less than half-an-hour.

Thanks Har, was wondering about how to go about hand pollinating the scleroderma.

BMc · « **Reply #16 on:** July 16, 2012, 01:55:02 AM »

Quote from: Mike T on July 13, 2012, 10:26:18 PM

Saff there is a 45 foot tall poshte in a park I visited about a fortnight ago.It is growing in full sun,booming,covered in flowers and healthy and the soil pH is between 5.5 and 6.I noticed the seedlings beneath were sprouting in shade of the tree more than in full sun as the council has not sprayed them yet.I presume they need shade when young and may not be sunlovers until 5 or 6 feet and prefer acidic, well drained soil.

Mike, if you are going by the park again, I'd love a few poshte seeds or seedlings! I've got the perfect spot for them if they dont mind a it a little cooler.

Mike T · « **Reply #17 on:** July 16, 2012, 03:32:36 AM »

BMc leave it with me.If the council workers have not 'rounded' them up yet I'll rip some out.It was covered in flowers 2 weeks ago and pumps out the fruit like a machine.No others are around for pollination, so I suppose there is some auto-erotic behaviour going on.I have to go back some time and grab a batch of kepels.

davidgarcia899 · « **Reply #18 on:** September 18, 2014, 12:36:22 AM »

Hey Adam, hows your poshte doing. I have two that are doing well. I am gonna grow them out for another year and then try one in the ground. The other one I might keep in a pot and try to graft it onto to a pond apple.

AlexRF · « **Reply #19 on:** September 18, 2014, 03:23:45 PM »

My Cawesh seedlings grew poorly in the soil mix by shop. They strongly revived after replacing into the forest (mole) not acidic soil.

FlyingFoxFruits · « **Reply #20 on:** September 18, 2014, 03:35:32 PM »

Quote from: davidgarcia899 on September 18, 2014, 12:36:22 AM

Hey Adam, hows your poshte doing. I have two that are doing well. I am gonna grow them out for another year and then try one in the ground. The other one I might keep in a pot and try to graft it onto to a pond apple.

doing well thanks!!

the tree has grown quite slow.

it was declining with city water..I"m guessing the fluoride did this (or some other chemical)...not so much the pH...the tree at fruit and spice is doing very well...after looking like trash...it looks like it's taken a 180 turn for the better...

the tree at f&s also flowered heavily..making me wonder if I should just go ahead and get scions to speed up fruition of my tree.

no fruit set at fruit and spice. Chris Rollins said he's had the posh te fruiting before....but it has never produced a decent crop...and I think he said the fruit was of poor quality (in FL)

davidgarcia899 · « **Reply #21 on:** September 18, 2014, 04:59:58 PM »

Do these like acidic or alkaline soil? Do we know? I'm guessing of there's one at F&S I don't have to worry about the cold. I guessed, due to the leaf that it would be sensitive like guanabana

Guanabanus · « **Reply #22 on:** September 18, 2014, 09:06:32 PM »

In western Guatemala, Cawesh grow in the coffee-growing areas, in good volcanic clay soils, presumably not alkaline or extremely acid either.

BMc · « **Reply #23 on:** February 10, 2015, 06:18:42 PM »

Can anyone take a photo of their poshte leaves?
I want to make sure mine is legit before I put it in the ground.
Thanks!

Finca La Isla · « **Reply #24 on:** February 10, 2015, 08:16:49 PM »

I don't have a photo at hand but the leaves are shiny, kind of like guanabana, while most annonaceae have dull surface leaves.

Coconut · « **Reply #25 on:** February 11, 2015, 10:14:48 AM »

Quote from: BMc on February 10, 2015, 06:18:42 PM

Can anyone take a photo of their poshte leaves?
I want to make sure mine is legit before I put it in the ground.
Thanks!

Mine is twenty feet tall four years grown in pure sand from steve barnes. I have two from oscar four year old and very cold resistant to than my superior mountain soursop which surprise me and more wind resistance than what have been written by the wiki folks.

luc · « **Reply #26 on:** February 11, 2015, 12:55:39 PM »

Quote from: BMc on February 10, 2015, 06:18:42 PM

Can anyone take a photo of their poshte leaves?
I want to make sure mine is legit before I put it in the ground.
Thanks!

I'll take a pic when I go to the farm Bruce .

gozp · « **Reply #27 on:** December 17, 2017, 12:06:15 AM »

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Author Topic: Annona scleroderma (cawesh, posh-te) (Read 12069 times)