Durian and Breadfruit hardiness

[tropicbreeze]

Anyone know which of Durian and Breadfruit are the more susceptible to cold? Also, which are more susceptible to low relative humidity? TIA

[AnnonaMangoLord45]

Definitely the durian is more susceptible to low humidity, as breadfruit does fine in our summer months in socal, but when it gets below 50.... you better kiss those trees goodbye

[Mike T]

It depends on varieties of both. There have been past threads devoted to this question and tabulated lower temperature thresholds published for many species including these.

[tropicbreeze]

Thanks for that AML45. My Breadfruit tends to lose a lot of the large leaves during our dry season and this year has been one of the worst for low relative humidity. I've got some Durian seedlings (or more like small saplings) and am trying to work out the best planting location by comparing the present location of the Breadfruit which is much more in direct sun now since I cut out some very large trees nearby.

Mike T, I thought there'd be something in old posts but couldn't find anything suitable in the searches I did.

[Mike T]

Breadfruit is reported to struggle with winter minimums below about 7c but it depends how long they are exposed to the low temps. The local experience shows some varieties are ok with winter minimums of 3 or 4c occasionally. Durians have a wider range of responses to low temps with some varieties defoliating below 10c with most ok with occasional dips to 5 or 6c.A few varieties show no signs of stress when winter minimums of 4 or 5c and certainly will tolerate lower temps.It does depends on humidity,wind and how long exposure to low temps are.

[Finca La Isla]

I would emphasize that protection from dry wind is important, regardless of low temps.
Peter

[tropicbreeze]

One of the Durians is D. graveolens but the other is an unknown. My major concern is the low relative humidity we can get during the dry season. My Mangosteens (mangostana, xanthochymus, warreni) haven't had any problems with it but this year I lost my Cacao. The Breadfruit just drops the largest leaves but still keeps producing more smaller ones. Wet season it has the large leaves again. So I'm trying to work out where the Durians sit in amongst all this.

The low humidity is a result of the high daytime temperatures and that's when most of the wind is around. At night of course the humidity goes back up as the temperature drops along with any wind. Dry surges usually last a few days and then humidity goes back to higher daytime values.

[Mike T]

What part of the territory are you in.More than 100km south of Darwinor maybe to the east?

[tropicbreeze]

About 35 kms south east of Darwin, 'as the crow flies'.

[fruitlovers]

One of the Durians is D. graveolens but the other is an unknown. My major concern is the low relative humidity we can get during the dry season. My Mangosteens (mangostana, xanthochymus, warreni) haven't had any problems with it but this year I lost my Cacao. The Breadfruit just drops the largest leaves but still keeps producing more smaller ones. Wet season it has the large leaves again. So I'm trying to work out where the Durians sit in amongst all this.

The low humidity is a result of the high daytime temperatures and that's when most of the wind is around. At night of course the humidity goes back up as the temperature drops along with any wind. Dry surges usually last a few days and then humidity goes back to higher daytime values.

Durians are a lot less tolerant to dry spells than breadrruit. A drought can easily and rapidly kill even mature durian trees.

[Soren]

If you lost a Cacao to drought, I doubt a Durian will have favorable odds..

[Mike T]

Lambells lagoon has plenty of durians and minimum temps there are way higher in winter than here where durians flourish. Are you say 2c lower with minimums than Darwin? You will probably get 1400 to 1500mm rain per year but it is the prolonged dry season that will limit durians and even the excessive number of days over 35c when rain is low. You should be able to grow mangosteen and durian as well as breadfruit with irrigation.

[tropicbreeze]

My average rainfall is 1706mm but this past wet season was 1276mm with 574mm of that coming in December alone. Generally most of the rain comes in 3 or 4 months, for 3 months (winter) there's absolutely no rain with maximum temperatures averaging 33 to 34C. That's when dry surges come and the RH really drops. Late winter daily temperatures go over 35C but don't get the dry surges then, not usually anyway.

I know about the Durian plantations at Lambell's Lagoon.They get a bit colder than here and conversely a degree or two hotter than here but RH would be pretty much the same. Like me they irrigate during the dry season so 'drought in the soil' isn't an issue (provided the bore doesn't go pear shaped). But the air, you can't really control it. And that's where Cairns has an advantage. The RH is consistently higher. Here I have to aim for the optimum location, so least exposure to wind looks like being a priority. I need to go to lambells Lagoon and check out how they're set up. They might be interplanting them with other trees. I know some people here grow Mangos around their Rambutans to maintain higher humidity.

[Mike T]

You should be fine for the whole range of tropical fruit and equatorials but just need to keep them shadeclothed for longer at the start. It is really windy here, far windier than there but much more humid in the dry season.1700mm would make it wetter than Darwin and that doesn't sound right but anyway minimum temps and soil moisture are the biggest issues. Rambutans, pulasans, mangosteens and all durian species should be ok in your climate.Windbreaks would help and yes mangoes are ideal so are jackfruit,sapodilla.black sapote,pomelo and a whole lot more.

[tropicbreeze]

That's what I've recorded over the past 13 years at my place. You would think Darwin itself would be a lot higher than here but I checked the official Weather Bureau figures and my figures aren't really inconsistent.

My home average 1706mm over 13 years

Elizabeth Valley 1726.9mm over 30 years (nearest BOM gauge to me, about 4 kms)

Darwin Post Office 1536mm over 86 years (Closed 1962)

Darwin Airport 1727.5mm over 75 years

Middle Point 1407mm over 14 years

A few years ago my total for the wet season was 2400mm, but last one was 1276mm.

[Mike T]

Fair enough there is a lot of variation here as well.Within about 70km of Cairns rainfall stations vary between 860mm/yr and 8800mm/yr and I am about 2600mm/yr. Your total rainfall is reasonable and you should be able to grow all the tropicals with irrigation. 

[Soren]

Entebbe, Uganda has the only known Durians growing free-land at 1,134 m (3,720 ft) above sea-level. They receive an average annual rainfall of 1,626 mm which is enough for fruit production. But likely temperatures could be lower, air-humidity higher or rain fall more evenly spread through-out the year.

[tropicbreeze]

I'm not going to plant the Durians out until the wet season. That'll give them a bit of time to settle in before the dry. The forecasts are for an earlier and wetter wet season than normal so I'm hopeful. And I'll be putting them amongst Mangos with a lot of trees to block the dry season winds.

One thing I've noticed is that early or late in the day when our temperatures drop to about the Cairns maximums the RH is about the same, so actual water content in the air is also probably much the same. This is the forecast at the weather station nearest to me for the coming week. We've already been having several days of 35 - 36.



I've been around parts of Papua New Guinea at high altitude, up to 2190m. Altitude certainly makes a big difference. It was around 8° south and quite cold at night. I don't recall seeing any Durians but in the lower areas there sure were a lot of Oil Palms.

[Mike T]

Cairns is forecast to rain every day for the next 8 days and be 19c to 27c pretty every day so it is a bit different and this is the driest month here.

[tropicbreeze]

Don't rub it in.   If we have an early wet season as promised we might see some rain in about 5 - 6 weeks.

[tropicbreeze]

Finally planted out my Durians. They're on a mound of silty/sandy soil I brought up from my creek flats with a lot of charcoal (home made) underneath. Gave it some liquid organic fertiliser and also molasses to give the micro organisms a boost. Also sprinkled elemental sulphur to get pH down (to counteract the residual ash in the charcoal). Covered it over with a thick layer of well decomposed woodchip. Left that sitting a few months in a good wet season.

When I dug the holes for the plants the soil was full of huge earthworms, obviously they liked the environment. Put a monsoon tablet (slow release fertiliser) in the bottom of the hole and watered the plants in with liquid seaweed fertiliser. Now it up to the gods.

Although my place is on a slight slope, during the wet season the ground stays fairly waterlogged. The Mangos love it as do a lot of other trees. But the sandy mound should keep the Durian roots reasonably well drained, and they can go further down if they want to. However, dry season I'll need to be carefull they don't dry out too much.

[aroideana]

Good luck Ziggy .. Most of my fruit trees got a sever cyclone prune after the Debbie scare

[tropicbreeze]

Thanks Mike. Debbie did quite a bit of rearranging of the landscape, you were lucky it ended up further south. But earlier on it was looking to be lined up for a close hit on you.