Need help choosing a mango tree?

[Schutzhund]

Hello everyone, I currently have space for one more mango tree in my yard and I need help deciding which mango to get, my current choices are Pickering, Mallika, and Carrie. Feel free to throw in any suggestions on what variety I should get. I'm currently growing Glenn, Kent, Valencia Pride, and 3 unknown varieties.

[behlgarden]

Put a Manila tree in ground and then graft onto it Sweet Tart that does very well here. You can multi graft too. Do not, I repeat Do Not get trees from Florida as they are on rootstock that does not do well here in Southern CA, they go downhill after 2-3 years.

[JF]

One of your choice is Carrie I would opt for Angie and Sweet tart. PM Behl he might have them available

[Schutzhund]

One of your choice is Carrie I would opt for Angie and Sweet tart. PM Behl he might have them available

Haha I picked those choices because those are the ones I can find at the nursery. Are Angie and Sweet Tart high productive?

[simon_grow]

Sweet Tart is definitely productive on Manilla rootstock.
Simon

[Schutzhund]

Sweet Tart is definitely productive on Manilla rootstock.
Simon

Do you have any pictures of how Sweet Tart?

[mangomaniac2]

Behl please share with us the evidence you have that turpentine root stock will not do well in Ca.
There are so many contributing factors that could be reason for decline so I am curious what evidence you have that pinpoints the problems to definitively prove it's the root stock and not just a plug for a way to sell your own trees. I think some growers on this forum from Palm springs have no issues with turpentine in desert clay soil. From my experience the biggest factors contributing to mango decline are:
1. Planting the tree too deep in the soil. Mango trees like the feeder roots to be able to breathe and dry out frequently. Over the years I have learned this from noticing shortly after adding additional soil and mulch that they start to die back and decline. Once removing what was added the decline stops.
2. Over watering. They definitely start declining after too much water.
3. Over fertilizing and too salty of fertilizer. If you use the wrong fertilizer or too much fertilizer the roots become damaged and struggle to supply water to the tree.
4. High PH soil. If you do not correct the soil PH the tree will have troubles thriving and always show nutrient deficiencies.

I have found that if you foliar feed on a regular schedule the trees thrive and never have nutrient deficiencies.  For the most part I have all but stopped adding fertilizer to the soil and solely foliar feed for the trees nutrient needs. They almost always are putting out new growth and salt is no longer a problem.
Dyna-grow Foliage Pro is what I use and contains very little salt. When it rains the roots get fed with the runoff from the leaves. This is enough for the roots and prevents root damage from salts. When I water I water slowly over a fairly long time, and then leave to dry out. Once the tree shows signs of drought stress then it's time to drip water again.
I have both Manila from big box store here in Phoenix, and Fla mango trees and they both act about the same in the poor soil. The manila may have more vigor than some of my Fla varieties, but some Fla varieties like Peach cobbler grow like crazy.
Really curious how you have concluded it's the rootstock and not the care, poor water quality, or variety specific.
Also one thing to keep in mind is some varieties do well outside their normal climate, and some do not. For instance, most Asian varieties do not grow very fast in dry climate. Has nothing to do with the soil. I have both in ground and in pot. No difference in growth rates..nothing to do with root stock.

[mangomaniac2]

Sweet tart is a super productive tree so not surprised it would be productive on Manila.

[JF]

I'm not Behl but I can say that our cold winter temps, alkaline soil an the low humity are huge factors to phomopsis. Turpentine rootstock is a much weaker less vigorous rootstock than Manila therefore more susceptible to phomopsis. Turpentine us less vigorous and more opportunities for the pathogen
Peter owner of park hill orchard has taken dozens of dead turpies to the plant pathology lab at uc riverside those are the results..,..please read behl's post and stop looking at the Vegan athlete and Shane O'Leary's  videos

[behlgarden]

Behl please share with us the evidence you have that turpentine root stock will not do well in Ca.
There are so many contributing factors that could be reason for decline so I am curious what evidence you have that pinpoints the problems to definitively prove it's the root stock and not just a plug for a way to sell your own trees. I think some growers on this forum from Palm springs have no issues with turpentine in desert clay soil. From my experience the biggest factors contributing to mango decline are:
1. Planting the tree too deep in the soil. Mango trees like the feeder roots to be able to breathe and dry out frequently. Over the years I have learned this from noticing shortly after adding additional soil and mulch that they start to die back and decline. Once removing what was added the decline stops.
2. Over watering. They definitely start declining after too much water.
3. Over fertilizing and too salty of fertilizer. If you use the wrong fertilizer or too much fertilizer the roots become damaged and struggle to supply water to the tree.
4. High PH soil. If you do not correct the soil PH the tree will have troubles thriving and always show nutrient deficiencies.

I have found that if you foliar feed on a regular schedule the trees thrive and never have nutrient deficiencies.  For the most part I have all but stopped adding fertilizer to the soil and solely foliar feed for the trees nutrient needs. They almost always are putting out new growth and salt is no longer a problem.
Dyna-grow Foliage Pro is what I use and contains very little salt. When it rains the roots get fed with the runoff from the leaves. This is enough for the roots and prevents root damage from salts. When I water I water slowly over a fairly long time, and then leave to dry out. Once the tree shows signs of drought stress then it's time to drip water again.
I have both Manila from big box store here in Phoenix, and Fla mango trees and they both act about the same in the poor soil. The manila may have more vigor than some of my Fla varieties, but some Fla varieties like Peach cobbler grow like crazy.
Really curious how you have concluded it's the rootstock and not the care, poor water quality, or variety specific.
Also one thing to keep in mind is some varieties do well outside their normal climate, and some do not. For instance, most Asian varieties do not grow very fast in dry climate. Has nothing to do with the soil. I have both in ground and in pot. No difference in growth rates..nothing to do with root stock.

If you read my post, I am asking the fellow gardener to buy manila tree and graft himself, not saying buy from me. These is no intent on selling my own trees as I am not a nursery nor do I have time or inventory. I do it only for hobby and sell only what I cant put into the ground due to duplicate trees that I created OR make custom grafted cocktail if someone specifically requests for one. droopiness of majority of mangoes on Florida purchased trees in my yard and several other So Cal folks has been documented multiple times here on this forum. Biggest example is the same budwood grafted onto florida rootstock vs. manila grows  differently, no droppy at all. Coconut Cream for example does horribly in CA if left on turpentine rootstock, I have beautiful coconut cream on my manils and is upright grower.  Some here have documented the tipid performance that surfaces into year 2 or 3 after planting.

[Central Floridave]

"Pickering, Mallika, and Carrie"

If I were to rank those in my preference and those were the only 3 available: #1 Mallika #2 Pickering #3 Carrie

[Dennis_No_Frost]

Wow, Good timing on this topic.  I was about to order a cotton candy plant from a seller on eBay from Florida.  I have been reading the forum for years now and am aware of the issue with turpentine root stock, but these new mango varieties and the seller's price are so tempting.  I didn't know Behl sell plant btw, I know frank does.  Behl is acutally about 20 miles from my work place so maybe I pick up a mango plant from him instead.  I send you a PM, Behl, hopefully you received it.

[behlgarden]

Oh, if you do want to go with Florida rootstock, the workaround would be to plant a seedling tight to the trunk of turpentine tree. once seedling is pencil size, do an inarch graft onto the turpentine above the graft union.  This way you can somehow influence the tree with manila rootstock as well.

Simon and Frank has done this. I am in the process of doing so to two of my turpies that are in tatters. Dont know the results of doing so, but may be Simon or Frank can chime in.

[Dennis_No_Frost]

Wow that inarch graft idea is pretty slick.  might have to do like 5 or more and when established, just cut the turpentine root stock off completely for fun. 

[mangomaniac2]

Is there a possibility that some of the root stocks vary, similar to the behavior or vigor of the tree above ground? I know some of my Fla root stocks can fill a pot with roots in no time, and others grow very slow. I would expect that Manila root stock to have similar variability. There are so many variables I guess, that I find it hard to determine definitively. I am always open to other's experiences and would love to find the magic bullet that solves all problems. Perhaps the manila would be better, just not sure.  I wish the Fla varieties were more readily available on different root stock such as Manila. I have a difficult time getting a graft to take in such harsh dry weather.

[mangomaniac2]

I'm not Behl but I can say that our cold winter temps, alkaline soil an the low humity are huge factors to phomopsis. Turpentine rootstock is a much weaker less vigorous rootstock than Manila therefore more susceptible to phomopsis. Turpentine us less vigorous and more opportunities for the pathogen
Peter owner of park hill orchard has taken dozens of dead turpies to the plant pathology lab at uc riverside those are the results..,..please read behl's post and stop looking at the Vegan athlete and Shane O'Leary's  videos

Yes, Shamus is where I get my mango trees, but I have not watched their videos. All my experience is from growing mango for the last 5 years.

[simon_grow]

Sweet Tart is definitely productive on Manilla rootstock.
Simon

Do you have any pictures of how Sweet Tart?

let me see if I can find some old pics. Sweet Tart is a relatively vigorous variety even when grown in SoCal. Let's not forget that scion can influence vigor and productivity as much as rootstock.

I have many threads I started regarding various rootstocks, especially Turpentine rootstock. Frank, Behlgarden and I speak from experience when we make recommendations for California growers. We have visited many groves and toured many CRFG gardens and I volunteer a lot in the rare fruit community especially around San Diego.

I'll post some pics of Various Mangos on Florida rootstock and show you what they look like after about 5 or more years in the ground, removing fruit for the first three years.

Certain varieties like VP can perform well on Florida/Turpentine rootstock but many varieties are prone to disease and get droopy and the bark becomes corky.

Simon

[simon_grow]

Here's some additional info on rootstocks http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=20816.0
Florida rootstock trees grown in SoCal http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=15673.0
In case anyone is wondering, I contacted just about everyone on this thread that initially said they have good growth on their Florida rootstock trees and most those trees are dead now.

Simon

[simon_grow]

Sweet Tart is definitely productive on Manilla rootstock.
Simon

Do you have any pictures of how Sweet Tart?

Here is a picture of Sweet Tart grafted onto an established Manilla rootstock. As you can see, it is extremely productive and the fruit is very good size. This is my friends tree and not mine.





Simon

[simon_grow]

Here are some pictures of Spirit of 76, Maha Chanok and Glenn on Florida rootstock. They have been in the ground for about 5-6 years IIRC. Notice the die back, open wounds, gummosis, Phomopsis, droopy growth, lack of vigor. Yes, my trees have been neglected and my yard is overrun with weeds but still proves the point.

My multigraft tree on LaVern Manilla planted about 15 feet away in a a more shaded area of my yard is growing very well without any symptoms described above. This tree was neglected as much as all my other trees ever since I got sick and it is thriving compared to those on Florida rootstock.

First trees on Florida rootstock

[simon_grow]

Here is my multigraft on Manilla. It fruited last year and was still able to veg out and is blooming again this year.





Here is one of my better Florida rootstock trees. It is a Lemon Zest and grows ok but with droopy growth, gummosis, die back and small diseased fruit. I prune the branches on this tree to remove droopy growth. Notice the large open wounds on the main trunk, an easy entry for fungal diseases.

[JF]

David

I don't understand what answer you are looking for you gotta trust Simon and Behl....they know what they are talking about remember what happen with Adam.

this is on my ataufo rootstock I had over 80 on a 2 year graft last season




One branch from my friends ataulfo 2 year graft

from my mom's 2 year Manila rootstock look at the size of the 2" trunk nearly kill my tree... 22 ST

[Schutzhund]

David

I don't understand what answer you are looking for you gotta trust Simon and Behl....they know what they are talking about remember what happen with Adam.

this is on my ataufo rootstock I had over 80 on a 2 year graft last season




One branch from my friends ataulfo 2 year graft

from my mom's 2 year Manila rootstock look at the size of the 2" trunk nearly kill my tree... 22 ST

I haven't said anything bad or disrespectful if you read through my replies, I just asked if Sweet Tart was productive and what does it look like. I'm also grateful for the helpful information that I have received regarding this topic. One more question how's the taste and where can I find scions for Sweet Tart and Angie?

[simon_grow]

Squam256 and Dongeorgio may still be selling scions. Sweet Tart is extremely sweet when grown in California and harvested ripe. Once you get the hang of when to harvest it, you can ripen it less for more acid balance or let it get fully ripe for much less acidity and much more sweetness.

Those people that are sensitive to overly sweet fruit may want to avoid this variety along with LZ and several other Zill varieties that are ultra sweet. DOT is also an excellent variety.

Many Mango growers in SoCal have had success planting random mango seeds into the ground. These seedling trees are known to grow to huge proportions. When growing seedlings in the ground, do not graft them with mature scions until the seedling is fully established and in exponential growth phase.

When grafted(mature scion) mango trees are grown in SoCal, many of them will flower within one year and continue to flower every year from then on. This issue can be avoided by simply holding off on grafting with mature scion wood until the tree is fruiting size.

Simon

[Schutzhund]

Squam256 and Dongeorgio may still be selling scions. Sweet Tart is extremely sweet when grown in California and harvested ripe. Once you get the hang of when to harvest it, you can ripen it less for more acid balance or let it get fully ripe for much less acidity and much more sweetness.

Those people that are sensitive to overly sweet fruit may want to avoid this variety along with LZ and several other Zill varieties that are ultra sweet. DOT is also an excellent variety.

Many Mango growers in SoCal have had success planting random mango seeds into the ground. These seedling trees are known to grow to huge proportions. When growing seedlings in the ground, do not graft them with mature scions until the seedling is fully established and in exponential growth phase.

When grafted(mature scion) mango trees are grown in SoCal, many of them will flower within one year and continue to flower every year from then on. This issue can be avoided by simply holding off on grafting with mature scion wood until the tree is fruiting size.

Simon

Sounds good I'm thinking about buying a Manila from Home Depot to use as rootstock. I have this mango tree that is about 12 years that my dad planted from seed, the seed came from our neighbor who went to El Grullo, Jalisco in Mexico, and the tree gives us very delicious and fiberless fruits the only problem is I don't know what variety it is