How are new mango cultivars developed?

[jcaldeira]

I am amazed at the number of new mango varieties that have become available in recent years.  Are most of the new varieties developed the old fashioned way, from natural or controlled seed hybridization and limb sports?  Or are they mostly a result of modern techniques such as gene sequencing and other genetic modification methods?

A lot of amazing genetic 'improvements' have been made to corn, soybean and other crops.  Are our tropical fruits resulting from the same processes?

[Patrick]

Most of the new named varieties (from South Florida at least) are being hybridized by selective pollination.  Just controlled, basic, pollination.

[TnTrobbie]

Jeff (CookieMonster) had a nice post about the new mango "cultivars" process that Zill does, on the GW forum. When I find it, I'll post it.
You have to apprecieate how long the process is. From hundres if not thousands of seedling planting (polyembryonic) to fruiting (4-5+ years waiting) then finally selecting based on "desired" charactistics like flavour, disease resistance, fiber, production etc.

[jcaldeira]

It's amazing that mango cultivars with such names as Coconut Cream, Pineapple Pleasure, and Pina Colada could be developed by traditional means.  Even with thousands of seedlings, if the names are really descriptive of flavor, it's amazing.

[murahilin]

Jeff (CookieMonster) had a nice post about the new mango "cultivars" process that Zill does, on the GW forum. When I find it, I'll post it.
You have to apprecieate how long the process is. From hundres if not thousands of seedling planting (polyembryonic) to fruiting (4-5+ years waiting) then finally selecting based on "desired" charactistics like flavour, disease resistance, fiber, production etc.

I think this was the post you were referring to:
http://forums.gardenweb.com/forums/load/tropicalfruits/msg101943312412.html?8

[fruitlovers]

I am amazed at the number of new mango varieties that have become available in recent years.  Are most of the new varieties developed the old fashioned way, from natural or controlled seed hybridization and limb sports?  Or are they mostly a result of modern techniques such as gene sequencing and other genetic modification methods?

A lot of amazing genetic 'improvements' have been made to corn, soybean and other crops.  Are our tropical fruits resulting from the same processes?

Hi John, the way new mango cultivars are developed in Florida is by Harry having a mango tasting party at his house. A bunch of friends get together eat mangos in Harry's backyard and throw the pits everywhere. Then Harry selects and names them, or puts it up on this forum for name selection, like the famous Carrie seedling now popularly named Harry Karry. Just teazzzzing Harry....but this may not be too far from the truth in Florida!

[fruitlovers]

Most of the new named varieties (from South Florida at least) are being hybridized by selective pollination.  Just controlled, basic, pollination.

Is this really true? If so this is painstakingly difficult work. According to Dr. Zee here, cross pollinating mangos is extremely difficult and laborious as the flowers are very small and extremely small percentage will take.

[bsbullie]

Most of the new named varieties (from South Florida at least) are being hybridized by selective pollination.  Just controlled, basic, pollination.

Is this really true? If so this is painstakingly difficult work. According to Dr. Zee here, cross pollinating mangos is extremely difficult and laborious as the flowers are very small and extremely small percentage will take.

While there are some crosses I believe most are be selected seedling experimentation (previously mentioned).

[fruitlovers]

It's amazing that mango cultivars with such names as Coconut Cream, Pineapple Pleasure, and Pina Colada could be developed by traditional means.  Even with thousands of seedlings, if the names are really descriptive of flavor, it's amazing.

Hi John, no those are not GMO mangos. They are not inserting genes from bar tender's drinks into their mangos. Here is the way that Zill actually does the breeding, according to Murahilin's link below:
"Random is the way that Zills does it. From my understanding it is not completely random because they plant a lot of a certain mother seed in a row and they have no way of knowing the exact father tree. As Jeff said, the way they select out the seedlings is by smelling the leaves. When selecting for the Lemon Zest I was told that because it came from a batch of PPK seeds, Gary was looking for a smell that was different than the others and thats how he knew it was not one of the polyembronic nucellar seedlings but instead the result of sexual reproduction.
I think Zill's variety selection was done right here in South Florida. I was told that the seedlings were started in containers."
Whether any mango really tastes like a Pina Colada is up for debate? My only conclusion is that people in Florida drink a lot because they come up with such names! 

[SWRancher]

It's amazing that mango cultivars with such names as Coconut Cream, Pineapple Pleasure, and Pina Colada could be developed by traditional means.  Even with thousands of seedlings, if the names are really descriptive of flavor, it's amazing.

Hi John, no those are not GMO mangos. They are not inserting genes from bar tender's drinks into their mangos. Here is the way that Zill actually does the breeding, according to Murahilin's link below:
"Random is the way that Zills does it. From my understanding it is not completely random because they plant a lot of a certain mother seed in a row and they have no way of knowing the exact father tree. As Jeff said, the way they select out the seedlings is by smelling the leaves. When selecting for the Lemon Zest I was told that because it came from a batch of PPK seeds, Gary was looking for a smell that was different than the others and thats how he knew it was not one of the polyembronic nucellar seedlings but instead the result of sexual reproduction.
I think Zill's variety selection was done right here in South Florida. I was told that the seedlings were started in containers."
Whether any mango really tastes like a Pina Colada is up for debate? My only conclusion is that people in Florida drink a lot because they come up with such names! 

I'm still patiently waiting for the introduction of the "Rum and Coke" Mango...

[murahilin]

I'm still patiently waiting for the introduction of the "Rum and Coke" Mango...

I've had vodka soaked watermelon, maybe someone should try should rum soaked mango slices. That sounds like a good experiment for this weekend.

[murahilin]

Is this really true? If so this is painstakingly difficult work. According to Dr. Zee here, cross pollinating mangos is extremely difficult and laborious as the flowers are very small and extremely small percentage will take.

A few years ago, Dr. Ian Bally from Australia gave a presentation here in FL on mango breeding. They figured out a way that wasn't that difficult or laborious and got about 99% success with the crosses they intended to do. They manually pollinated each flower following a certain guideline. He said that they used this process in Australia and they have had pretty good success. I think that's how they have developed a few of the new KP crosses. They were even using the method to cross other mangifera species to impart disease resistance to KP and stuff. I have my notes on how to do is somewhere. I think I may have even posted the details on how to do it in this forum somewhere. I can't remember.

I think Zill's may also cover a small mango tree with a screened enclosure and put the flowers that they want the male parent of the new seedling to be and hope it pollinates it. I am not 100% sure if they do that though. I remember being that told also.

[SWRancher]

I'm still patiently waiting for the introduction of the "Rum and Coke" Mango...

I've had vodka soaked watermelon, maybe someone should try should rum soaked mango slices. That sounds like a good experiment for this weekend.

I'll take that challenge! 

[fruitlovers]

Is this really true? If so this is painstakingly difficult work. According to Dr. Zee here, cross pollinating mangos is extremely difficult and laborious as the flowers are very small and extremely small percentage will take.

A few years ago, Dr. Ian Bally from Australia gave a presentation here in FL on mango breeding. They figured out a way that wasn't that difficult or laborious and got about 99% success with the crosses they intended to do. They manually pollinated each flower following a certain guideline. He said that they used this process in Australia and they have had pretty good success. I think that's how they have developed a few of the new KP crosses. They were even using the method to cross other mangifera species to impart disease resistance to KP and stuff. I have my notes on how to do is somewhere. I think I may have even posted the details on how to do it in this forum somewhere. I can't remember.

I think Zill's may also cover a small mango tree with a screened enclosure and put the flowers that they want the male parent of the new seedling to be and hope it pollinates it. I am not 100% sure if they do that though. I remember being that told also.

Hi Murahilin, if you can find your notes, or maybe if Mike of BMc know about this, would be interested to read about easier cross pollination method for mangos?

[murahilin]

Hi Murahilin, if you can find your notes, or maybe if Mike of BMc know about this, would be interested to read about easier cross pollination method for mangos?

Hey,
Here is the link to a post where I described the process in a little more details: http://forums.gardenweb.com/forums/load/tropicalfruits/msg1214171915143.html

Here is the text from that post:
"Manual cross pollination was done to a large extent in Australia by Dr. Ian Bally. They manually pollinated individual flowers with pollen from other mangos and related mangifera species in order to develop new mangos for Australia. They were all pretty much crosses with Kensington Pride.

If you would like to manually cross pollinate a mango the process isnt too difficult. Here is a basic rundown of the process. It is much easier to explain visually but this is the best I can do at the moment.
1)During the afternoon of the day before you plan to cross pollinate remove all of the open flowers from the panicle and then bag it to prevent pollination.
2)The next morning, remove bag and identify all the hermaphrodite flowers and remove all other flowers. Take off all the anthers.
3) Pollinate with male flowers.

If I remember correctly there is above a 99% correct cross using that process. The less precise method was to take a small potted plant of the variety you want the male pollen from and put it under a netted tent with the "female" tree and then throw a carcass of some sort under the tent and let the flies do the work for you. That process is not as effective as manually pollinating. I will try to find some more information on the actual work that was done in Australia. It was very interesting stuff."



I know I have a pdf with picture instructions somewhere. I'll see if I can find it.

[fruitlovers]

Hi Murahilin, if you can find your notes, or maybe if Mike of BMc know about this, would be interested to read about easier cross pollination method for mangos?

Hey,
Here is the link to a post where I described the process in a little more details: http://forums.gardenweb.com/forums/load/tropicalfruits/msg1214171915143.html

Here is the text from that post:
"Manual cross pollination was done to a large extent in Australia by Dr. Ian Bally. They manually pollinated individual flowers with pollen from other mangos and related mangifera species in order to develop new mangos for Australia. They were all pretty much crosses with Kensington Pride.

If you would like to manually cross pollinate a mango the process isnt too difficult. Here is a basic rundown of the process. It is much easier to explain visually but this is the best I can do at the moment.
1)During the afternoon of the day before you plan to cross pollinate remove all of the open flowers from the panicle and then bag it to prevent pollination.
2)The next morning, remove bag and identify all the hermaphrodite flowers and remove all other flowers. Take off all the anthers.
3) Pollinate with male flowers.

If I remember correctly there is above a 99% correct cross using that process. The less precise method was to take a small potted plant of the variety you want the male pollen from and put it under a netted tent with the "female" tree and then throw a carcass of some sort under the tent and let the flies do the work for you. That process is not as effective as manually pollinating. I will try to find some more information on the actual work that was done in Australia. It was very interesting stuff."



I know I have a pdf with picture instructions somewhere. I'll see if I can find it.

OK thanks. Do you know why it's easier or more effective to pollinate the hermies vs. the female flowers?

[murahilin]

Here is the book I was referring to with some pictures: http://books.google.com/books?id=xReHR3_QYdkC&lpg=PA51&ots=pjsCwPY0dO&dq=dr%20Ian%20Bally%20mango%20breeding&pg=PA51#v=onepage&q&f=false

If I remember correctly, there was a powerpoint somewhere with even more pictures. I will continue the search for it.

[bsbullie]

I'm still patiently waiting for the introduction of the "Rum and Coke" Mango...

I've had vodka soaked watermelon, maybe someone should try should rum soaked mango slices. That sounds like a good experiment for this weekend.

I'll take that challenge! 

I would go with Patron Silver soaked mango slices (a raw form of a mango margarita).

[Tropicdude]

Here is the book I was referring to with some pictures: http://books.google.com/books?id=xReHR3_QYdkC&lpg=PA51&ots=pjsCwPY0dO&dq=dr%20Ian%20Bally%20mango%20breeding&pg=PA51#v=onepage&q&f=false

If I remember correctly, there was a powerpoint somewhere with even more pictures. I will continue the search for it.

Thanks, I am interested in doing this someday. 

A lot of amazing genetic 'improvements' have been made to corn, soybean and other crops.  Are our tropical fruits resulting from the same processes?

I have not been impressed by any of the genetic engineering "improvements"   No Monsanto Mangoes for me please.  I do not think there is much danger in that happening anytime soon, other bigger crops in the US like citrus, I bet will be the next target for industrialized genetic tampering.

I wonder if Zill will breed a new Pepsi flavored mango.

[jcaldeira]

Hi John, no those are not GMO mangos. They are not inserting genes from bar tender's drinks into their mangos.

Too bad.  I wanted to order a Gin and Tonic mango. 

The future is bright for those dabbling in fruit genetics.  There are so many tropical fruits that have not yet undergone significant improvement by selective breeding. 

By the way, I have an old mango tree on my farm with a variety I want to name as my own.   This cultivar is hereby named "Dental Floss" for its exceptional fiberous qualities.  It's sure to be a big seller. 

John

[fruitlovers]

Hi John, no those are not GMO mangos. They are not inserting genes from bar tender's drinks into their mangos.

Too bad.  I wanted to order a Gin and Tonic mango. 

The future is bright for those dabbling in fruit genetics.  There are so many tropical fruits that have not yet undergone significant improvement by selective breeding. 

By the way, I have an old mango tree on my farm with a variety I want to name as my own.   This cultivar is hereby named "Dental Floss" for its exceptional fiberous qualities.  It's sure to be a big seller. 

John

Yes, i agree. We have yet to see the Luther Burbank of tropical fruits. But i don't think this breeding will involve any labratory gene splicing, it will all be selective breeding, just as our ancestors have already been doing for thousands of years.

[FlyingFoxFruits]

have heard that some growers can plant out 1000 seedlings, and by simply crushing and smelling the leaves, they can determine which seedlings to grow out, that will have the least turpenes, and possibly a nice new flavor.

[Tropicdude]

have heard that some growers can plant out 1000 seedlings, and by simply crushing and smelling the leaves, they can determine which seedlings to grow out, that will have the least turpenes, and possibly a nice new flavor.

I have seen where some folks measure the health of their plants by using a brix meter on the leaves. I wonder if something like this could be used to breed new varieties.

if someone new what the key compounds are in a tree with sought after traits, maybe one could just measure these in the leaves.  the reason being is my sniffer is not as sensitive like those wine folks, that can tell you the label, and year of a wine by smelling the bouquet .