Help transplanting eugenias

[KarenRei]

Hi all. I have (or rather had) a bunch of eugenias (I think!) all growing in the same pot (it's my "junk pot" where I end up throwing all seeds that I think have rotted or otherwise are dead, but which gives me random happy surprises now and then).  Each time I try to transplant one, though, it does. I'm down to just one or two left in the pot after my most recent attempt failed.

I'm not sure what to do.  If I bag it too tight, then it'll rot. If I don't bag it tight enough (or not at all), the leaves just dry out and it dies. At least I think that's what happened with my most recent one.  Should I be cutting all of the leaves off maybe?  Maybe I'm doing something wrong with the soil too or something? I just don't know what's going on   

[KarenRei]

Hmm, no transplant tips?

[achetadomestica]

I am sorry I don't understand what you are trying to do? If you have a plant growing in a pot take a knife and cut a large
square which encompasses the roots and plant in a different pot with a 50% composted manure and 50% potting soil mix.
The smaller the plant you are transplanting the easier the process. The new pot should have the soil half filled and after you place
the plug in the new dirt fill in the rest with your soil mix and water heavy for a few days. Try not to disturb the root ball when
you transplant hence the smaller plant is easier to move? The more I disturb the roots the less luck I have.

[KarenRei]

I am sorry I don't understand what you are trying to do?

Transplant plants?  That are most likely eugenias?  Thought that was pretty clear 

If you have a plant growing in a pot take a knife and cut a large
square which encompasses the roots and plant in a different pot with a 50% composted manure and 50% potting soil mix.

That's roughly the type of soil I'm using. As for getting the roots, they seem to have a taproot that goes way deep into the pot rather than spreading out.  I try to get it all, but I'm sure removing it is stressful for the plant because it's so long.

The smaller the plant you are transplanting the easier the process.

Have no control over that.  I want to get the others out of the pot, but I also don't want to kill my only remaining plants.

The new pot should have the soil half filled and after you place the plug in the new dirt fill in the rest with your soil mix and water heavy for a few days

I've tried watering it by hand to make sure the soil is well watered for days, and I've also tried having the dish under the pot constantly full of water to ensure that the soil never dries out.

Try not to disturb the root ball when you transplant hence the smaller plant is easier to move? The more I disturb the roots the less luck I have.

There is no root "ball", just a long taproot.  A root ball would be much easier.

As noted, I've also tried varying degrees of bagging to limit transpiration losses. I haven't tried any pruning to further reduce transpiration losses... don't know whether I should.

Maybe transplant into a purely inorganic mix with heavy aeriation (e.g. sand or perlite), then go for full saturation from the dish, with the plant initially 100% bagged (100% humidity), slowly backing off over the course of two weeks?  I don't know, I'm trying to think of a strategy to give me the best odds here....

[achetadomestica]

If you only have 2 plants left split the remaining soil and repot into a 2 larger pots , try not to separate the roots from
the dirt. If you only see one long tap root you may have already destroyed the root system. In the future if you have one large pot and
the seed sprouts and starts growing, remove it immediately. After you repot leave in indirect sunlight in case the plant is
stressed. In the future you may not want to end up with one pot with several large unidentified seedlings? This past year a couple
people sent me some small seedlings including Eugenia and Garcinia species. In a couple cases the plants root balls were
sent together and when I received them they basically were one mass but luckily they were moist and I basically got bare root
plants. I put them in moist soil in indirect sunlight and they are responding well. I haven't had any immediate losses but time
will tell if the plants thrive. Definitely not ideal situation for seedlings. With my luck if I had a pot with my unidentified seeds
I would end up with weeds?

[TropicalFruitHunters]

I found eugenias to normally be pretty hardy and can handle some rough handling.  How were you removing the seedlings from the pot?  If you are trying to remove individual seedlings from a community container, I think that is asking for trouble. 

I normally allow the soil to dry out just a bit and then upend the container and carefully get the dirt/plants/roots out in one contained mass.  I will then gently jiggle the soil and carefully disentangle the roots from each other.  This allows for you to get as much of the roots, including any taproot, out of the container without too much or any damage.  This is an all or none kind of process.  After separating, I cover the roots with some soil while I'm getting the new containers ready.  I always jiggle the container with the roots and soil to try and get as much coverage as possible.  Then water the hell out of them.  This usually works very well for me.

[KarenRei]

I found eugenias to normally be pretty hardy and can handle some rough handling.  How were you removing the seedlings from the pot?  If you are trying to remove individual seedlings from a community container, I think that is asking for trouble. 

I normally allow the soil to dry out just a bit and then upend the container and carefully get the dirt/plants/roots out in one contained mass.  I will then gently jiggle the soil and carefully disentangle the roots from each other.  This allows for you to get as much of the roots, including any taproot, out of the container without too much or any damage.  This is an all or none kind of process.  After separating, I cover the roots with some soil while I'm getting the new containers ready.  I always jiggle the container with the roots and soil to try and get as much coverage as possible.  Then water the hell out of them.  This usually works very well for me.

Indeed, it is a community container. And it's a big container (maybe 40cm deep), and the roots go all the way down (much bigger than the plants themselves), so it's hard to ensure that they come out whole. It's just a place where, whenever I have seeds that I've given up hope on, I dump them in there rather than throwing them in the trash. And sometimes I get lucky. 

Clever idea, dumping all the soil out.  It's a huge pot, but I don't mind getting soil all over my living room, it's just a concrete floor    Do you think potting into sand (with constant bottom watering) would be a good plan, to avoid the risk of rot from all of the water? Maybe a little biochar and clay for minerals while still keeping it inorganic - and then once they're established adding organic matter to the top of the soil?  What about bagging and/or pruning to reduce water loss while the roots reestablish?

Thanks for the tips, everyone    Here's to hoping that I get a good survival rate!

ED: I went ahead and did it with the dumping out method, with a soil mix about 85% sand, 15% clay / charcoal. I've bagged them with the bags down to soil level, but open at the bottom, so probably ~90%-ish humidity (the last time I had the bag at leaf level and wide open, so probably only ~60-70% humidity). I did no pruning. So I guess now it's just keep the tray full of water and once or twice a day monitor to make sure that the soil is staying moist and that the leaves are neither drying out nor molding.

[TropicalFruitHunters]

This is all just my opinion here so...I believe that there are certain plants that benefit from leaving in water like you mentioned.  I wouldn't do bottom watering on anything other than jaboticabas and such.  If you are covering them in plastic, your initial watering would probably last a while...watering only when the soil is drying out.  If you were careful with the roots, you shouldn't have to prune anything.  Too much water is just as bad, or worse, than no water at all.  Rule of thumb should be that all of your containers/soil mixes should drain well.  Good luck.  You'll just have to find a process that works for you.

[KarenRei]

Well, turns out that there were four Eugenias in there (pretty sure they're E. stipitata). I did everything you'd think possible. The roots aren't sitting in water, but water is constantly wicking through the sand, providing both constant moisture and constant aeration. The plants were bagged. The water was replaced daily, so it's always fresh and always low osmotic pressure.

Three of the four are probably dead, and one is probably dying.  :Þ

After the first one died, I switched from open-bottom bags to largely closed bottom, which seemed to slow down the problems with the others. But now the leaves on two of the other three are all crinkly / dead-ish, and for the other, most are that way, and the few that have any flexibility left seem to be heading in that direction.  So I went and fully sealed the bottoms to try to preserve what little moisture is present.

Damn. Those were my last stipitatas.  :Þ

Some other plants got transplanted at the same time, since I did the "dump the whole pot out" approach. They're all fine. There's a three sugar apples and a few other species (probably other eugenias), and there's no signs of withering. But those E. stipitatas.... 

[Jack, Nipomo]

Glad to see you posting again Karen.  Too late now, but I start macadamia seeds in a community 5 gallon pot with seeds totally covering the top solidly.  Of course there is about of 1 inch of soil on top of the seeds.  When all have germinated and grown to 6-8 inches, roots all intertwined, I lay the 5 gal pot on its side and use high pressure water to wash out all of the soil.  Plants are easily separated, no loss of those valuable proteoid roots, and the tap root is intact.  Replanting these in individual pots has been very successful.