'Coconut Cream' Mango Patent Application

[murahilin]

http://www.google.com/patents/USPP22989?dq=mango+c-20&hl=en&sa=X&ei=FHmdUJqrLabA2gXwvoGgAg&ved=0CDQQ6AEwAA

Edit: removed a link that no longer worked

[CTMIAMI]

I'm not an expert in tree patents. I personally think we have enough with patented drugs. Some one that has a couple of patents told me that once a tree has been propagated and is owned by more than one person it can not be patented.   Let's see if there is someone that knows for sure

[Tropicalgrower89]

I apologize if this is a dumb question, but if cross pollinate using coconut cream as a parent with, lets just say carrie; will that be allowed since coconut cream is patented or does it just affect the "naming" or re-selling process?

[Tropicdude]

I apologize if this is a dumb question, but if cross pollinate using coconut cream as a parent with, lets just say carrie; will that be allowed since coconut cream is patented or does it just affect the "naming" or re-selling process?

I'm no expert, but if you cross Coconut Cream with another variety, it would no longer have a patent because it would no longer be a Coconut cream.

Unlike, GMO crops,  where its the actual Genes or sequence of genes that is patented because they are unique in that created product and would never occur naturally at random.

If that unique gene is passed on sexually to another plant, that plant may  have proprietary patented genes.

So for breeding naturally, unless one can prove your plant has some unique gene that does not exist in any other plant,  that breeder has no rights over plants crossed with his or her patented variety.

But as talked about a lot here in the forum, the chances of a non poly seedling mango being as good or better than its parent is very slim,  in the case of Zill, he planted thousands of offspring from the same two parents, to get this winner.

anyway this is just my opinion i could be completely wrong.

I have nothing against patented varieties,  a lot of work and time went into this by the breeder.

I am against patented genes though, fine if you can keep them confined to your plant,  current law tells us that if these patented genes should cross with heirloom open pollinated varieties, its considered a "blessing" and you may have to pay royalties to the patent owner of that gene.   I do not see it that way, I see it as contamination. 

I would compare this to , a neighbor painting their house, and the over spray blows onto my property and onto my car, and the patent owner of that paint telling me I have to pay him royalties because my car is now using his excellent product.

[Tropicalgrower89]

Thanks for the explanation.  I liked the example you used in the last sentence. 

[murahilin]

I'm not an expert in tree patents. I personally think we have enough with patented drugs. Some one that has a couple of patents told me that once a tree has been propagated and is owned by more than one person it can not be patented.   Let's see if there is someone that knows for sure

A tree can be patented after being propagated if the patent application was filed within 1 year of the time it was first made available to the public.

[murahilin]

I apologize if this is a dumb question, but if cross pollinate using coconut cream as a parent with, lets just say carrie; will that be allowed since coconut cream is patented or does it just affect the "naming" or re-selling process?

You can not do breeding with a patented variety's pollen without permission of the patent holder. In order to do breeding with the Coconut Cream you will need to get permission from the patent holder.

[nullzero]

I apologize if this is a dumb question, but if cross pollinate using coconut cream as a parent with, lets just say carrie; will that be allowed since coconut cream is patented or does it just affect the "naming" or re-selling process?

You can not do breeding with a patented variety's pollen without permission of the patent holder. In order to do breeding with the Coconut Cream you will need to get permission from the patent holder.

The bees, flies, and wasps don't regard patents  , naturally occurring crosses will happen  .

[Tropicalgrower89]

I apologize if this is a dumb question, but if cross pollinate using coconut cream as a parent with, lets just say carrie; will that be allowed since coconut cream is patented or does it just affect the "naming" or re-selling process?

You can not do breeding with a patented variety's pollen without permission of the patent holder. In order to do breeding with the Coconut Cream you will need to get permission from the patent holder.

The bees, flies, and wasps don't regard patents , naturally occurring crosses will happen .

It wasn't me...           Well, I guess if you "intentionally" cross those varieties, then you have to ask permission.

[Pancrazio]

You can not do breeding with a patented variety's pollen without permission of the patent holder. In order to do breeding with the Coconut Cream you will need to get permission from the patent holder.

The bees, flies, and wasps don't regard patents  , naturally occurring crosses will happen  .

This example alone shows how many limits the concept of "patents" applied to tree have.

You can't even say "patents are needed because they are the only way the producer can recover the losses of a breeding program" simply because tree have been selected for millennia before patents were invented, wich shows pretty well that selection is based on the desire of better cultivars, and not on the icome generated by patents.

Even the role of the breeder is questionable, because if you plant enough seeds, you'll surely get, sooner or later, an improved clone. It's like telling that is you capability if, tossing two dices, you score a 12. Just my two cents.

[mangomandan]

Have the Zills patented other mango varieties?

Is CC so much better than their other selections that it alone merits a patent?  (I'm hoping the answer is Yes, since my CC is growing nicely.)

[bsbullie]

Have the Zills patented other mango varieties?

Is CC so much better than their other selections that it alone merits a patent?  (I'm hoping the answer is Yes, since my CC is growing nicely.)

I do not believe they have patented any other mangoes.  And yes, coconut cream is extremely delish, in my top three easily. 

[Cookie Monster]

Ohh that rawks! Mature height of 15 feet according to the summary!

[Tropicdude]

Have the Zills patented other mango varieties?

Is CC so much better than their other selections that it alone merits a patent?  (I'm hoping the answer is Yes, since my CC is growing nicely.)

Mine is growing well also, actually its doing better than all my other potted plants, it does have a spreading habit, but looks healthy,  my LZ that I got at the same time is only half the size, and they were both pugged to the same length, bare rooted and transplanted at the same time.

I am guessing you are like me, and have purchased trees, without tasting the fruit first.  these varieties are not available anywhere for me to try first, and it seems I am never in Fla during mango season, although next year I am going to try a make my trip in the summer.  and anyway, if folks in this forum say they are top tier, there is a good chance its gonna be a winner.

[murahilin]

Mine is growing well also, actually its doing better than all my other potted plants, it does have a spreading habit, but looks healthy,  my LZ that I got at the same time is only half the size, and they were both pugged to the same length, bare rooted and transplanted at the same time.

I am guessing you are like me, and have purchased trees, without tasting the fruit first.  these varieties are not available anywhere for me to try first, and it seems I am never in Fla during mango season, although next year I am going to try a make my trip in the summer.  and anyway, if folks in this forum say they are top tier, there is a good chance its gonna be a winner.

It's interesting that your CC grew faster than your LZ. I've had the opposite happen here with my CC and LZ. The LZ was a much faster grower for me.

[Squam256]

LZ definitely appears more vigorous than CC. In fact, the LZs are some of my most vigorous trees.

[bsbullie]

Ohh that rawks! Mature height of 15 feet according to the summary!

I saw that and truly question it.  After all, how old was/were the tree(s) that Gary was able to make reference to to determine that height?

[mangomandan]

I am guessing you are like me, and have purchased trees, without tasting the fruit first.  these varieties are not available anywhere for me to try first, and it seems I am never in Fla during mango season, although next year I am going to try a make my trip in the summer.  and anyway, if folks in this forum say they are top tier, there is a good chance its gonna be a winner.

I knew that I liked the very first trees I planted, which were Dot, Cushman, and Jacueline.  Though my yard isn't huge, I still had some room to experiment. My only regrets to date have been Lancetilla and Joellen. Lance never got sweet enough, and the tree looked awful under my particular growing conditions. Joellen only has flavor during an exceptionally dry year.   

This past summer, having met a couple forum members, and learned of a couple Florida mango outlets, I did get the chance to taste some other varieties.   Not Coco Cream or LZ or Maha, so far.   But like you I trust the judgement of some of the more experienced forum members.

And if a tree fails to please I'll rip it out.

[Mr. Clean]

I apologize if this is a dumb question, but if cross pollinate using coconut cream as a parent with, lets just say carrie; will that be allowed since coconut cream is patented or does it just affect the "naming" or re-selling process?

You can not do breeding with a patented variety's pollen without permission of the patent holder. In order to do breeding with the Coconut Cream you will need to get permission from the patent holder.

MURAHILIN:  You might read 35 USC 163.   "In the case of a plant patent, the grant shall include the right to exclude others from asexually reproducing the plant, and from using, offering for sale, or selling the plant so reproduced, or any of its parts, throughout the United States, or from importing the plant so reproduced, or any parts thereof, into the United States. "

Asexual reproduction is a mode of reproduction by which offspring arise from a single parent, and inherit the genes of that parent only.  The breeding a Coconut Cream (patented) with a Carrie (unpatented) would not be asexual reproduction.

[murahilin]

MURAHILIN:  You might read 35 USC 163.   "In the case of a plant patent, the grant shall include the right to exclude others from asexually reproducing the plant, and from using, offering for sale, or selling the plant so reproduced, or any of its parts, throughout the United States, or from importing the plant so reproduced, or any parts thereof, into the United States. "

Asexual reproduction is a mode of reproduction by which offspring arise from a single parent, and inherit the genes of that parent only.  The breeding a Coconut Cream (patented) with a Carrie (unpatented) would not be asexual reproduction.

Mr. Clean, I've read that statute many times while doing plant patent research. The way I've interpreted "right to exclude others ... from using ... or any of its parts" applies to pollen. It is clear that asexual reproduction is prohibited but the law also provides the protection to the holder to prohibit others from using its parts. Pollen is a part of the tree. Also excluding others from "using" could be determined to be apply to using the tree for breeding. Since it is being "used".

I originally read about this issue of using pollen from a patented tree a few years ago in book about temperate fruit breeding. It said that breeding with a patented plant was not allowed. Maybe that book was wrong, and same with my interpretation.

[bsbullie]

MURAHILIN:  You might read 35 USC 163.   "In the case of a plant patent, the grant shall include the right to exclude others from asexually reproducing the plant, and from using, offering for sale, or selling the plant so reproduced, or any of its parts, throughout the United States, or from importing the plant so reproduced, or any parts thereof, into the United States. "

Asexual reproduction is a mode of reproduction by which offspring arise from a single parent, and inherit the genes of that parent only.  The breeding a Coconut Cream (patented) with a Carrie (unpatented) would not be asexual reproduction.

Mr. Clean, I've read that statute many times while doing plant patent research. The way I've interpreted "right to exclude others ... from using ... or any of its parts" applies to pollen. It is clear that asexual reproduction is prohibited but the law also provides the protection to the holder to prohibit others from using its parts. Pollen is a part of the tree. Also excluding others from "using" could be determined to be apply to using the tree for breeding. Since it is being "used".

I originally read about this issue of using pollen from a patented tree a few years ago in book about temperate fruit breeding. It said that breeding with a patented plant was not allowed. Maybe that book was wrong, and same with my interpretation.

Though in many cases of law, laws/statutes must be interpreted to be applied...and in this case interpretation is almost a must.

[Mr. Clean]

MURAHILIN:  You might read 35 USC 163.   "In the case of a plant patent, the grant shall include the right to exclude others from asexually reproducing the plant, and from using, offering for sale, or selling the plant so reproduced, or any of its parts, throughout the United States, or from importing the plant so reproduced, or any parts thereof, into the United States. "

Asexual reproduction is a mode of reproduction by which offspring arise from a single parent, and inherit the genes of that parent only.  The breeding a Coconut Cream (patented) with a Carrie (unpatented) would not be asexual reproduction.

Mr. Clean, I've read that statute many times while doing plant patent research. The way I've interpreted "right to exclude others ... from using ... or any of its parts" applies to pollen. It is clear that asexual reproduction is prohibited but the law also provides the protection to the holder to prohibit others from using its parts. Pollen is a part of the tree. Also excluding others from "using" could be determined to be apply to using the tree for breeding. Since it is being "used".

I originally read about this issue of using pollen from a patented tree a few years ago in book about temperate fruit breeding. It said that breeding with a patented plant was not allowed. Maybe that book was wrong, and same with my interpretation.

Dicta in J.E.M. Ag Supply v Pioneer Hi-Bred Int'l, 534 U.S. 124, 122 S.Ct. 593, 151 L.Ed.2d 508, 60 USPQ2d 1865 (2001) states, "a utility patent on an inbred plant line protects that line as well as all hybrids produced by crossing that inbred with another plant line."  The Court was dealing with a different issue, and just made the comment as dicta, which seems to contradict FN7.

(FN7). The Senate Report accompanying the bill notes: "All such plants must be asexually reproduced in order to have their identity preserved. This is necessary since seedlings either of chance or self-pollenization from any of these would not preserve the character of the individual." S. Rep. No. 315, 71st Cong., 2d Sess., 3 (1930) (hereinafter S. Rep.). This report, like the text, indicates Congress' intent to limit plant patent coverage to asexual reproduction, but explains that this limitation "recognizes a practical situation" i.e., that propagation by seeds does not preserve the character of the original. See id., at 4 ("[T]he patent right granted is a right to propagate the new variety by asexual reproduction. It does not include the right to propagate by seeds. This limitation in the right granted recognizes a practical situation and greatly narrows the scope of the bill"). The limitation to asexual reproduction was a recognition of the "practical situation" that seedlings did not reproduce true-to-type. An exclusive right to asexual reproduction was the only type of coverage needed and thought possible given the state of plant breeding at the time.

Great deference is given to the Supreme Court dicta, but the text of the statutes states, "plant so [assexually] reproduced, or any of its parts." [Clarification added.]  Any of its parts would appear to apply only to the assexually reproduced copies.  A search of the US Court of Appeals for the Federal Circuit cases after 2001 would be needed to see if they followed the dicta or had a different interpretation of the statute. 

As a practical matter, I would be curious how a patent infringement case like this would look like.  Gary showing the pictures in the patent and saying "Defendant's  tree looks like the tree in my pictures...the leaves look similar..."  Defendant saying... "my tree is over 16 feet tall, so it can't be the tree in Plaintiff's patent as a matter of law..."

[Guanabanus]

Presumably, one would be forbidden from producing a clone from a grain of pollen of a patented plant, because that (usually) would be identical (though haploid), not having genes contributed by any other plant.  This still is asexual propagation.

Any interpretation forbidding breeding is over-reaching and should be challenged. 

Those who believe that a person should be penalized for an act of nature not of that person's doing, such as his plants' receiving pollen by wind or by bees,
are condoning institutionalized robbery.

[Tropicalgrower89]

Presumably, one would be forbidden from producing a clone from a grain of pollen of a patented plant, because that (usually) would be identical (though haploid), not having genes contributed by any other plant.  This still is asexual propagation.

Any interpretation forbidding breeding is over-reaching and should be challenged. 

Those who believe that a person should be penalized for an act of nature not of that person's doing, such as his plants' receiving pollen by wind or by bees, are condoning institutionalized robbery.

I agree. Why would they prevent someone or nature from making an even better mango, using coconut cream as a parent? Okay, I understand if the patent is only meant for the name itself. Look what happened to Young mango. They renamed it and took the credit away from the original grower or breeder of the "Young" cultivar. But to not even use it's pollen to make a DIFFERENT cultivar? That's ridiculous. Kinda smells like a monopoly to me. They should allow other people who love breeding mangoes use any cultivar they want just like them.  I wonder if the Zill mango breeding program would go as far as it's gone if someone else breaded the Carrie mango and patent it to not even allow anyone else to use it's pollen... In that case, there will be no Gary mango, no Juliette mango, no Coconut Cream mango, etc...

[Guanabanus]

'Carrie' also originated at Zill's, at the old family homestead in Delray Beach.

[Pancrazio]

I agree. Why would they prevent someone or nature from making an even better mango, using coconut cream as a parent?

Moreover, the genes of coconut cream, are already widespread in the mango population. So, the only think characteristic of CC is the gene combination in it, not the single genes (wich are also into many unpatented plants). Since after the sexual reproduction you transmit the genes and not their combination, i see as debatable the fact that a patent can avoid the use of a plant for breedin purpouse.
(I don't know anything on the issue, expecially on USA laws on it,  i'm just givin my 2 cents on the patent theme wich is close to my heart)

[TREESNMORE]

Is there a patent pending on coconut cream mango. There is know patent pending notice on the label. A forum member I am doing some trading with asked for a piece of budwood.

[TREESNMORE]

murahilin
Thank you I saw the application

[Berto]

I gave my coconut mango tree away as a gift to a friend!
Time would tell if it was a good decision!!!

[Mr. Clean]

I gave my coconut mango tree away as a gift to a friend!
Time would tell if it was a good decision!!!

My Coconut Cream had flowers....now only one mango is left on it now.  Now I have to hope that the wind doesn't knock off that lone mango.  I suspect  if I had an aggressive copper program, I might have had more fruit.  It is not a plant and forget type of mango tree.

[Cookie Monster]

It sounds like you're basing that judgement on a single season from an immature tree. Many novice growers don't realize that most mango trees won't hit their 'stride' until they have been in the ground a few years. (Trees like the pickering are the exception.) Some really excellent trees (eg, lemon meringue, okrung) are not precocious and will not start bearing until they've been in the ground 2 or 3 years.

The other thing that I've learned over the years is that it's impossible to judge a mango on a single season. All mango trees have a bad year now and then. Even the extolled maha chanook seems to be having a mediocre year.

I gave my coconut mango tree away as a gift to a friend!
Time would tell if it was a good decision!!!

My Coconut Cream had flowers....now only one mango is left on it now.  Now I have to hope that the wind doesn't knock off that lone mango.  I suspect  if I had an aggressive copper program, I might have had more fruit.  It is not a plant and forget type of mango tree.

[mangokothiyan]

Hi All,

I am Arun, a new member but not new to the forum as it is one of the websites I visit more than a few times every day  I live in Coral Springs and feel privileged to know some of the forum heavyweights such as Noel Ramos, Jeff, Patrick ( I am the one who got the Molix 7 gallon tree from you two weeks ago) and Rob (thanks for helping me pick a grafted Bangkok Lemon). Hopefully, I will be able to meet the others in person sometime soon.

The 7 gallon Coconut Cream that I got from Jeff last year flowered a few weeks ago. It is pushing new growth right now. I am yet to taste the mango but everyone that I talked to recommended it.

The other mango trees I have are Carrie  from Excalibur (it has about 30 fruits now and has flowered again), Bailey' Marvel - Excalibur (it has a few mangoes and is flowering again), Duncan - Excalibur -(planted last year and fruiting already), two Pickering trees - from Jeff -  (one has about 10 mangoes and the other younger one has 2-3), Glenn - from Excalibur - (fruiting for the first time this year), a Keitt tree (from Jeff) that flowered for the  first time this year, a Lemon Meringue tree that gave me fruits for the first time last year but has done nothing this year, a Nam Doc Mai # 4 (from Jeff) and a very healthy-looking Kesar (again from Jeff) that has been dormant for a while but is now pushing new growth.

I also have a Pace and Pantin mamey Sapote (thanks to Jeff), guava, and  a hasya sapodilla (Excalibur). Molix (from Patrick), an Abiu seedling tree,  a grafted Bangkok Lemon and a seedling Excalibur Red jackfruit are waiting for their turn to be planted.

Some day, I will be tech-savvy enough to post pictures of my trees.

Thanks

 

[Cookie Monster]

Hey there, Arun. Welcome to the forum. You've got quite a collection going there.

[mangokothiyan]

Thanks, Jeff. It feel nice to be here!

[Tropicdude]

Hello Arun welcome to the forum.

and a very healthy-looking Kesar (again from Jeff)

I also got my Kesar from Jeff, and have to say I like the looks of this tree the leaves are so dark green, its such a healthy looking tree. not a blemish on it.  a couple of my other trees have powdery mildew. but not the Kesar.

Coconut cream is doing ok,  when I brought this tree over, I pugged it, and bare rooted it,  one of the pieces from that process, I grafted onto a local rootstock.  that grafted CC is now catching up to the original in size.  My CC , at least around here is my most vigorous tree.   big difference in the leaf coloration between Kesar and CC,  CC has very light green leaves compared to Kesar.

[mangokothiyan]

Thanks, William..

The leaves of my Kesar too are dark green and blemishless, as you said. The only thing it has to do now is to flower and produce fruits. I will wait.

My CC has droopy branches; Jeff said that is how it usually is. Is your CC also that way? As you said, the leaves are much lighter compared to Kesar.   I love the coconut tinge in Pickering and I am told it is more pronounced in CC.. 

I am waiting to taste CC for the first time and have high expectations.

[mangomandan]

Thanks for some useful reminders, Jeff.  It helps us keep our perspective.

It sounds like you're basing that judgement on a single season from an immature tree. Many novice growers don't realize that most mango trees won't hit their 'stride' until they have been in the ground a few years. (Trees like the pickering are the exception.) Some really excellent trees (eg, lemon meringue, okrung) are not precocious and will not start bearing until they've been in the ground 2 or 3 years.

The other thing that I've learned over the years is that it's impossible to judge a mango on a single season. All mango trees have a bad year now and then. Even the extolled maha chanook seems to be having a mediocre year.

[Mr. Clean]

I hear what you are saying.  Just comparing the trees to my Pickering, Carrie, and Nam Doc Mai...the Coconut Cream doesn't compare well production wise at this stage.  Most of these have been in the ground less time than the Coconut Cream.

It sounds like you're basing that judgement on a single season from an immature tree. Many novice growers don't realize that most mango trees won't hit their 'stride' until they have been in the ground a few years. (Trees like the pickering are the exception.) Some really excellent trees (eg, lemon meringue, okrung) are not precocious and will not start bearing until they've been in the ground 2 or 3 years.

The other thing that I've learned over the years is that it's impossible to judge a mango on a single season. All mango trees have a bad year now and then. Even the extolled maha chanook seems to be having a mediocre year.

I gave my coconut mango tree away as a gift to a friend!
Time would tell if it was a good decision!!!

My Coconut Cream had flowers....now only one mango is left on it now.  Now I have to hope that the wind doesn't knock off that lone mango.  I suspect  if I had an aggressive copper program, I might have had more fruit.  It is not a plant and forget type of mango tree.

[bsbullie]

Mark - none of your trees have been in the ground long enough to make any comparison or judgment as to fruiting.   They are still far too young and small at the stage they are at, no matter what is blooming now.  I have seen many fresh grafted trees in one gallon pots that are blooming at less than or near one foot tall...does this mean I should make judgement on f2f hese too??

[natsgarden123]

Mark - none of your trees have been in the ground long enough to make any comparison or judgment as to fruiting.   They are still far too young and small at the stage they are at, no matter what is blooming now.  I have seen many fresh grafted trees in one gallon pots that are blooming at less than or near one foot tall...does this mean I should make judgement on f2f hese too??

Agree but some on the new varieties haven't been planted that long so its hard to pass judgement. Is that correct or are there 5+ year old CC tress out there?

[Squam256]

Mark - none of your trees have been in the ground long enough to make any comparison or judgment as to fruiting.   They are still far too young and small at the stage they are at, no matter what is blooming now.  I have seen many fresh grafted trees in one gallon pots that are blooming at less than or near one foot tall...does this mean I should make judgement on f2f hese too??

Agree but some on the new varieties haven't been planted that long so its hard to pass judgement. Is that correct or are there 5+ year old CC tress out there?

There are, outside of Gary Zill's property, Fairchild Farm has at least one mature tree. It had an 'ok' crop on it when I saw it last year. Richard Campbell is not too high on the production qualities though. He regards it as a mango selected "based purely on flavor". And I must say, that flavor is really, really good.

Jury is still out on it . Most of the CC trees out there have been planted within the last 2 years.

[Cookie Monster]

I think there may be some soil bias there. Dr Campbell also said that the regular nam doc mai was completely unproductive in Homestead -- so much so that a commercial grower who had attempted to grow NDM tore all the trees out. However, regular NDM is highly productive at many locations in Broward County, which is a strong indication that the Homestead soil is the issue. Dr Campbell also extols the NDM #4, which has severe splitting problems in Broward. The key here is to remember that we have 3 completely distinct growing areas in the tri-county area and each area has an effect on mango flavor, productivity, etc.

The patent application describes the tree as being distinguished by "production of heavy and consistent crops." So, we need to wait until data is in from all 3 counties. Fairchild Farm could be an anomaly.

I actually got several mangoes from CC trees in 3 gallon containers last year, which seemed like a good sign.

There are, outside of Gary Zill's property, Fairchild Farm has at least one mature tree. It had an 'ok' crop on it when I saw it last year. Richard Campbell is not too high on the production qualities though. He regards it as a mango selected "based purely on flavor". And I must say, that flavor is really, really good.

Jury is still out on it . Most of the CC trees out there have been planted within the last 2 years.

[Squam256]

So, we need to wait until data is in from all 3 counties. Fairchild Farm could be an anomaly.

I agree.

[Tropicalgrower89]

I think there may be some soil bias there. Dr Campbell also said that the regular nam doc mai was completely unproductive in Homestead -- so much so that a commercial grower who had attempted to grow NDM tore all the trees out. However, regular NDM is highly productive at many locations in Broward County, which is a strong indication that the Homestead soil is the issue. Dr Campbell also extols the NDM #4, which has severe splitting problems in Broward. The key here is to remember that we have 3 completely distinct growing areas in the tri-county area and each area has an effect on mango flavor, productivity, etc.

The patent application describes the tree as being distinguished by "production of heavy and consistent crops." So, we need to wait until data is in from all 3 counties. Fairchild Farm could be an anomaly.

I actually got several mangoes from CC trees in 3 gallon containers last year, which seemed like a good sign.

There are, outside of Gary Zill's property, Fairchild Farm has at least one mature tree. It had an 'ok' crop on it when I saw it last year. Richard Campbell is not too high on the production qualities though. He regards it as a mango selected "based purely on flavor". And I must say, that flavor is really, really good.

Jury is still out on it . Most of the CC trees out there have been planted within the last 2 years.

I wonder if grafting a regular ndm onto an already grafted ndm#4 will dwarf it and affect it's precocity/production.

[Tropicquest]

sorry, I don't know about patents, but I would like to know if this mango does taste like coconut cream.  Sure sounds tasty.

Good luck on your patents.

[Squam256]

sorry, I don't know about patents, but I would like to know if this mango does taste like coconut cream.  Sure sounds tasty.

Yes, tastes true to its name. Its quite delicious.