Questions from a total grafting neophyte.

[happyisland]

So since I've run out of space to plant new mango trees I've decided to try multi-grafting some trees so I can continue to expand my offering. I've watched the Fairchild videos, and read some stuff online, but I'm still not 100% sure on a few things...

1) what supplies can I not live without? I ask because you can't get any of the usual stuff (parafilm, veneer knives, etc) in Aruba. For tape I've got some plumber's teflon tape, some of that green tape that nurseries use to stake plants, or regular types of tape. For knives the best I can do is probably a nice chopping knife with a well-sharpened blade.

2) is grafting branches at all different from the trunk grafting that is done in the youtube tutorials?

3) it's very windy here in Aruba. Is there anything I could do to protect the grafts? I was thinking about some kind of splint...

4) should the scion have actual small buds forming, or just have the initial swelling that comes before new leaves are pushed out?

Thanks in advance for the help! I'm going to try a couple today with the supplies I've got, just to see what happens. I've got a friend with a mongrel mango tree in his yard and I'm going to try grafting some Edward scion on it. Wish me luck!

-dave

[jcaldeira]

A sharp knife is essential. 

For wrapping, the teflon pumbing tape will work well, but even regular plastic bags cut into strips will work fine.  I wrap the wound well (I do use Parafilm but teach others with thick plastic bag strips), then use ordinary kitchen wrap (the very thin plastic used to cover foods; I cut the roll in 3 cm strips) to cover the entire scion. 

The biggest risk is the scion drying out, so covering the entire scion with thin plastic is essential, especially in wind.   The buds will break through on their own - do not unwrap.  Covering loosely with newspaper for the first week or two might help reduce sun exposure.

I found my mango grafts most successful when the rootstock is pushing a lot of sap.  To create this situation artifically, cut off the branches and let some new shoots grow.  When the new shoots are as thick as the scion, approximately 1 cm, do a cleft graft.  Thus, for each thicker branch cut, you'll have several vigorusly growing new shoots to work with.

The scions must have swollen buds.  Scion should be slightly thicker than the rootstock if cleft grafting.  The scion in the photo below is ideal:


John

[happyisland]

Thanks John! I just went over to my buddy's house and made my first attempts. While the teflon tape wrapped well and was easy to put on, subsequent layers of plastic wrap were a little uglier. I wrapped them thoroughly, worried about dryness from our tradewinds. My knife was sharp, but one cut came out less-than-flat... Pics to follow.

[happyisland]

Here are the tools I had at my disposal:


And here's the first layer on my first graft, the teflon tape before I added plastic wrap and some duct tape.


Here's the (ugly) finished product, which includes duct tape and plastic wrap, but does not include wrapping the entire scion...


I'm at peace with the fact that this probably won't take. I didn't wrap the entire scion, I don't think I chose a particularly good scion, I might have cut it too long, etc, etc... My next attempt will be when I find a good budding branch to use as a scion.

[Tropicdude]

Locals around here do not use anything fancy, and have a high success rate.

they just use plastic from plastic bags,  both for wrapping the graft and placing over to keep in moisture.

I have seen them use pocket knives, and those box cutters, which are cheap and razor sharp when new. these are even beveled on one side like a grafting knife.

http://www.photo-dictionary.com/phrase/2389/box-cutter.html

In the DR we have many mail forwarding services from the US, have you checked locally to see if you have similar services?  in my case I use a company called "Business Mail" you get a US address, like a post office box.

Set up a PAYPAL account and then you could buy these type things off ebay and other online sites. or with CC off Amazon.

that knife you have looks a bit big, 

[jcaldeira]

I'm at peace with the fact that this probably won't take. I didn't wrap the entire scion, I don't think I chose a particularly good scion, I might have cut it too long, etc, etc... My next attempt will be when I find a good budding branch to use as a scion.

If you didn't wrap the entire scion with a thin plastic, it almost certainly will not be successful.  You MUST stop the evaporative moisture loss.

Also, cutting the leaves off closer to the stem will make it easier to wrap with one layer of kitchen wrap; just spirol roll it up the top, over the top, back down one turn and tie-off.  I recommend a 10-12 cm (4"-5") scion.

To force more sap flowing to your scion, you might trim off nearby branches.

John

[Tim]

Does Aruba forbid buying grafting knife online or something?  If not, you've got to get a grafting knife, or at least some razor blades.  Check this link out if you haven't already done so:
http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=871.msg24281#msg24281

[Jackfruitwhisperer69]

Hi David,

Them Buds should be nice and fat...about to push. If them buds ain't swollen, the graft will heal...though will not push/flush.

Grafting Fruit Trees
Check the budwood that is harvested.

I now use exacto knife and razor blades for all my grafts Kitchen knifes are too thick and will split the wedge

Fingers crossed, Buddy..hope they take

[happyisland]

If you didn't wrap the entire scion with a thin plastic, it almost certainly will not be successful.  You MUST stop the evaporative moisture loss.

Also, cutting the leaves off closer to the stem will make it easier to wrap with one layer of kitchen wrap; just spirol roll it up the top, over the top, back down one turn and tie-off.  I recommend a 10-12 cm (4"-5") scion.

To force more sap flowing to your scion, you might trim off nearby branches.

John

Cool - thanks for the feedback. I'm going to go back and re-wrap the ones I did today to make sure they're totally covered. Is it true in your experience that the new growth will push through the plastic wrap?

[happyisland]

Does Aruba forbid buying grafting knife online or something?  If not, you've got to get a grafting knife, or at least some razor blades.  Check this link out if you haven't already done so:
http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=871.msg24281#msg24281

I definitely plan on buying a grafting knife online, but for some reason (a lazy afternoon Sunday spent thinking about what garden project to try next) I decided I needed to try a couple grafts ASAP. The kitchen knife I used was pretty thick, and while sharp did split the wood a bit. It was also unwieldy and made it hard to get a clean cut on the scion. You live and learn... Next time I think I'll try a disposable razor.

[happyisland]

Hi David,

Them Buds should be nice and fat...about to push. If them buds ain't swollen, the graft will heal...though will not push/flush.

Grafting Fruit Trees
Check the budwood that is harvested.

I now use exacto knife and razor blades for all my grafts Kitchen knifes are too thick and will split the wedge

Fingers crossed, Buddy..hope they take

I watched that video yesterday, and that technique is what I tried to copy. I'm afraid my scion was not fat enough though. Do you think it will NEVER flush again if it wasn't budding, even if the graft does heal properly?

[jcaldeira]

Cool - thanks for the feedback. I'm going to go back and re-wrap the ones I did today to make sure they're totally covered. Is it true in your experience that the new growth will push through the plastic wrap?

The new growth has no problem going through plastic kitchen wrap.  Try to cover the buds with only one layer of wrap.  Do not unwrap when it appears the graft is successful, so moisture is conserved and the graft can heal.   Just leave it alone.

[bangkok]

I am also still a noob in grafting. I did about 40-50 so far and have some questions as well.

The knife has to be bevelled at one side, but i bought 2 grafting knifes allready that are only bevelled 1 side. So i  made my own from the vile of a victorinox which is bevelled 1 side now.

I grafted a mahanChanok which is alive for 10 months on the host but it has only 2 leaves and nothing happens. To force it growing i took one leave off but in 30 days still nothing happens. What can i do to make it grow? The tip of that graft is dead wood so it only has 1 leave now and a healthy stem.

I use small mango-trees for grafting (many different species) but how can i force them to make good buds? They are in small growers bags of plastic so i can easy tie them to a bamboo stick for approach grafting but actually i want to go for the real grafting ways like side veneer or cleft grafts. I tried that many times but they always die. I never used the paper, only bind the branch to keep it in the shade.

When i wrap them in plastic totally they turn black and die. Water can come in i guess so how can i prevent that so they stay dry?
I also always get very small crawling insects under the plastic so how can i close it well so nothing can come in my grafts?

I use some plastic film from the gardenshop which is transparent and stretchable. They dont sell parafilm here.

I was thinking to put my sciontrees in pure vermiculite to let them start making fat buds that i can use as scions. Is that a good idea or does anyone have a better plan? My trees are now like 30 cm with 2 branches from 10cm. I can buy new ones easy but like to use what i got.

[Tropicdude]

I am also still a noob in grafting. I did about 40-50 so far and have some questions as well.

The knife has to be bevelled at one side, but i bought 2 grafting knifes allready that are only bevelled 1 side. So i  made my own from the vile of a victorinox which is bevelled 1 side now.

I grafted a mahanChanok which is alive for 10 months on the host but it has only 2 leaves and nothing happens. To force it growing i took one leave off but in 30 days still nothing happens. What can i do to make it grow? The tip of that graft is dead wood so it only has 1 leave now and a healthy stem.

I use small mango-trees for grafting (many different species) but how can i force them to make good buds? They are in small growers bags of plastic so i can easy tie them to a bamboo stick for approach grafting but actually i want to go for the real grafting ways like side veneer or cleft grafts. I tried that many times but they always die. I never used the paper, only bind the branch to keep it in the shade.

When i wrap them in plastic totally they turn black and die. Water can come in i guess so how can i prevent that so they stay dry?
I also always get very small crawling insects under the plastic so how can i close it well so nothing can come in my grafts?

I use some plastic film from the gardenshop which is transparent and stretchable. They dont sell parafilm here.

I was thinking to put my sciontrees in pure vermiculite to let them start making fat buds that i can use as scions. Is that a good idea or does anyone have a better plan? My trees are now like 30 cm with 2 branches from 10cm. I can buy new ones easy but like to use what i got.

I came across this paper while looking for ways to improve my success,

http://www.google.com.do/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=8&ved=0CEYQFjAH&url=http%3A%2F%2Funiversity.uog.edu%2Fcals%2Fpeople%2FPUBS%2FMANGO%2FMg05300.pdf&ei=aCCkUPmVJIHK9gTj4IGYCg&usg=AFQjCNFVMXT39sZ71zaqiweh_KyGaPlO_A&sig2=J6KTqM9tqQHYsTvA4AGgzA&cad=rja

Propagation wood that is not in the proper stage for
use can be preconditioned 3 to 4 weeks before it is
needed by either of two methods. One is to girdle
selected terminals about 30 cm (12 in.) below the apex.
Girdling causes an accumulation of carbohydrate reserves
in the scion which helps insure that scions will take and
is used especially for wood that must be shipped to
distant places. The other is to cut off all but the apical
3 or 4 leaves on selected terminals for a distance of
about 20 to 30 cm (8 to 12 in.) from the apex, leaving
petiole stubs about 6 mm (1/4 in.) long to protect the
buds. Defoliation 2 weeks or so before grafting causes
buds to push. Both methods can be used together to
produce scions with plump buds and a high potential for
success.

I think my problem is with timing, since I got my scions from people when doing trips, they may or may not be at their optimum time to be cut.

then I have to hope that my rootstock will match somewhat in size. and finally the rootstock may be dormant also at the time I get the scions.

anyway the technique above, to girdle the stem that will be used for a scion to store carbs in it, sounds like a cool idea.   

[bangkok]

Thanks for the info. For girdling i need wooden branches which i dont have anymore, i grafted everything so far.

Timing is hard indeed, you need a good bud and a flushing host. I approach grafted a lot who took and then many months later started flushing. Others took and do nothing for almost a year now.

I learned a lot from this site so far.

[Jackfruitwhisperer69]

Hi David,

Them Buds should be nice and fat...about to push. If them buds ain't swollen, the graft will heal...though will not push/flush.

Grafting Fruit Trees
Check the budwood that is harvested.

I now use exacto knife and razor blades for all my grafts Kitchen knifes are too thick and will split the wedge

Fingers crossed, Buddy..hope they take

I watched that video yesterday, and that technique is what I tried to copy. I'm afraid my scion was not fat enough though. Do you think it will NEVER flush again if it wasn't budding, even if the graft does heal properly?

Hi David,
Couldn't reply sooner...been out of the Island for a couple of days.

There is always a possiblity that this graft will push...time will tell.  Next time, do your best and get some scions with fat buds to graft with...can't wait to see your mango cocktail