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Author Topic: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7  (Read 75896 times)

CTMIAMI

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Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
« Reply #50 on: May 27, 2013, 04:29:30 PM »
For me it has been a struggle with Yamagata and Malama. I lost a couple of potted  trees I got a couple of years ago. I planted a  5 gal tree in the grove in June 2011 and has done poorly 23 month later it has hardly grown. My last attempt at the insistence of a friend, that wants to eat avocados in April and May, ( he believes anything in the web)  was to top work a tree. I did so in January 2013. Its taken off, but that is expected.  On my end I'm a couple of years away from actually being able to answer  your questions. 

On the Top tropical description of maturity, I'm suspect. They don't tell you what part of the state is this information from. They don't tell you the root stock they use or where the tree comes from. From their description of Nishikawa we know from people in the south west coast of Florida that it is a lot earlier. 

I doubt that this tree that flowered early in So. Florida will hold fruit for 14-15 months in our heat and humidity. Time will tell. In the mean time I suggest that unless you have space and money to spare to hold off until we get confirmation. I'm sure there are people growing the tree besides myself in So. Florida and at some point we would know.

Another issue is that if this is West Indies race why is it struggling in So. Florida? I know this is the description from Hawaii but I don't know of any 100%West Indies race that holds fruit for that long. May be a hybrid?

Carlos
www.myavocadotrees.com
zone 10a Miami-Dade County

LEOOEL

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Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
« Reply #51 on: May 27, 2013, 09:48:16 PM »
I'm glad progress is being done and that it's a matter of time, before we can obtain an avocado cultivar that ripens in our Zone 10 in the months of February through May.  I spoke to a friend, who's on the same quest, and he's got about 100 avocado seedlings going. He's planning to plant them in a 10 acre property that he owns. From planting to fruition, I guess it'll take approximately around ten (10) years. A part of me wishes the genome of each seedling could be read and inputted into an advanced supercomputer, which would then be able to determine the most promising candidates. But, our civilization is not there yet (we're being slowed by those trying to enslave, control and kill our fellow man; sorry, couldn't resist).
« Last Edit: May 29, 2013, 11:02:34 PM by LEOOEL »
'Virtue', learn/teach/propagate it, you'll save others and yourself.

fruitlovers

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Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
« Reply #52 on: May 29, 2013, 12:52:15 AM »
Carlos, or Oscar, or anyone else, what's your opinion on the Yamagata avocado cultivar being offereded at Top Tropicals? Do fruit really begin to ripen in April or May? How is the fruit production and is it reliable year after year? Help, please.

These are the specifications offered on their website:

Name of variety: Yamagata
Ripening Season: very early March-July
Plant size: vigorous and upright, dark green foliage
Production: ?   
Fruit Shape / SizeA: large, oval-pyriform with a curved neck
fruit color: green
Cold tolerance: Medium to low
Comments: Yamagata variety is very early. It ripens in Florida in March-April when no other varieties produce fruit. Can ripen over a long season, from March through July. Fruit is large, with a small seed and green skin. Flesh green, smooth, flavor nutty. It's a very fine, gourmet Hawaiian avocado named for agriculture specialist Heiji Yamagata, who develeoped it. According to University of Hawaii consumer poll, Yamagata was selected as one of the best Hawaiian cultivars. Medium to low cold hardiness. Very vigorous and upright growing tree.
Type: West Indian
Place of Origin: Hawaii
Yamagata wasn't selected as "one of the best", it was selected as #1 top choice by a panel of consumers. (The #1 choice by panel of chefs was Kahaluu.) So indeed the Yamagata is a very fine avocado. Here it's season is March-July. It bears well and consistently here and is commercially grown. I doubt it is West Indian type. Probably it is a hybrid with some West Indian and Guatemalan mixed. How well it's going to do in Florida is up in the air. But i would say this is one of the top choices for trials there. The others being Kahaluu and Malama (rated #2 in chef taste test).
Oscar

CTMIAMI

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Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
« Reply #53 on: May 29, 2013, 06:33:58 PM »
All three are in the oven in my grove. Now what we need is time.  The Malama was hard to get going but finally it is, Kahaluu and Yamagata are doing well. Also Murashige. Oscar what do you think of Murashige avocado. The Nishikawa we know is going to do well. Is doing well in the west coast and my top worked tree from last year is holding some fruit.  Next 18 months will be exciting. It list for me. I get excited about avocados.
Carlos
www.myavocadotrees.com
zone 10a Miami-Dade County

LEOOEL

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Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
« Reply #54 on: May 29, 2013, 11:41:56 PM »
Carlos and Oscar, thank you for your exciting info./input, about the Yamagata avocado cultivar. I think I'm addicted/hooked with all this excitement. I mean, Oscar mentions the excellent qualities of this cultivar, and Carlos informs that in 18 months we'll know if it is the avocado, void-filling, cultivar that we're looking for south Florida, U.SA.

Well, it's great to get confirmation that the Yamagata is indeed a great avocado cultivar. And, 18 months pass by rather quickly. So I say, take care during that time my friends, because as soon as Carlos brings the good news that we (well, Carlos really) finally have this quality-avocado-missing-link, I invite you to a nice, cold, well deserved quality beer (I rarely ever drink but when I do, I prefer a dark beer; to be consumed under safe/secure circumstances, of course).

I've said it before, and I'll say it again, you guys are the best. Thanks.
'Virtue', learn/teach/propagate it, you'll save others and yourself.

fruitlovers

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Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
« Reply #55 on: May 30, 2013, 03:34:44 AM »
All three are in the oven in my grove. Now what we need is time.  The Malama was hard to get going but finally it is, Kahaluu and Yamagata are doing well. Also Murashige. Oscar what do you think of Murashige avocado. The Nishikawa we know is going to do well. Is doing well in the west coast and my top worked tree from last year is holding some fruit.  Next 18 months will be exciting. It list for me. I get excited about avocados.

Murashige is also an excellent avocado. A lot of the avocados here were pioneered by Japanese farmers on Kona coast. That is why many of them have Japanese names.
I am excited to finally have an Ota avocado growing. That is a giant round black, cannonball sized avocado. It's very buttery and sweet. A real winner.
Oscar

CTMIAMI

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Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
« Reply #56 on: May 30, 2013, 05:23:58 AM »
Murashige,  tree wise loves it here and is growing well.  Also I forgot San Miguel another late Hawaiian variety that is also doing well.
Carlos
www.myavocadotrees.com
zone 10a Miami-Dade County

Mark in Texas

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Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
« Reply #57 on: May 30, 2013, 08:23:21 AM »
On the Top Tropical description of maturity, I'm suspect. They don't tell you what part of the state is this information from. They don't tell you the root stock they use or where the tree comes from. From their description of Nishikawa we know from people in the south west coast of Florida that it is a lot earlier. 

After buying a Nishikawa from them, never will I do business with them again. 

I have a huge collection of avocado varietal info (was gonna do the Carlos pioneer thang at one time in coastal South Texas) and on one sheet that I copied it says that Nishikawa is a WI X G combo.  This is what they have to say about it -
Quote
The hybrids or crosses of the Guatemalan and West Indian races may have various combinations of characteristics of these races.  For instance, there may be a typical smooth-skinned West Indian type of avocado fruiting in February.  An example appears to be the Nishikawa variety.

I didn't note the source but if memory serves me correct I copied that from an Hawaiian source.

Perhaps this is why Nishikawa goes 14-15 months Carlos?  It takes on that trait from the Guat genes?

Mark
« Last Edit: May 30, 2013, 08:26:46 AM by Mark in Texas »

fruitlovers

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Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
« Reply #58 on: May 30, 2013, 10:20:58 PM »
I think most of the popular Hawaiian avo cultivars are hybrids of W. Indian and Guatemalan, but i haven't researched it.
I have a San Miguel, but is still very small tree. I haven't tasted that cultivar yet.
Oscar

CTMIAMI

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Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
« Reply #59 on: May 30, 2013, 10:40:04 PM »

Perhaps this is why Nishikawa goes 14-15 months Carlos?  It takes on that trait from the Guat genes?

Mark

Mark the Nishikawa does not go for 14-15 month. We know for a fact it Flowers around February-March and is ready by November-December in Florida. We had Nishicawa from Berto at Thanksgiving Dinner
Carlos
www.myavocadotrees.com
zone 10a Miami-Dade County

LEOOEL

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Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
« Reply #60 on: May 31, 2013, 12:28:44 AM »
Oscar, I've been thinking about how amazing it is that many of the wonderful fruits that we enjoy here in South Florida have come from Hawaii.
On the same line of thought, I'm sure that there are many fruit cultivars, from other locactions like California or Texas, where Mark is at, just waiting to be discovered that would be great additions to the South Florida landscape.

Carlos makes an important point, that most likely there are others that have have been growing the Yamagata avocado cultivar for several years and enjoying the fruit.
We're all living busy lives, but I would really appreciate it if they would take some time letting us know about their experiences with this Yamagata avocado cultivar.
I know that the answers to our questions are coming, as Carlos has said, but the sooner we get more input on this cultivar (and others), the better.
« Last Edit: June 01, 2013, 01:33:08 AM by LEOOEL »
'Virtue', learn/teach/propagate it, you'll save others and yourself.

Mark in Texas

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Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
« Reply #61 on: May 31, 2013, 08:03:40 AM »
Thanks Carlos.

I think once pioneers like Carlos and you other guys fill that gap in harvesting dates that we could focus on dwarf trees.  That would serve many a backyard gardener and those growing in greenhouses like me.  I know of only a few and they are all from California, or at least grown there - Gwen, Wurtz, perhaps Holiday although the latter can get quite big.  I hope my Oro Negro doesn't get out of hand and plan to keep it and others contained using pruning and a PGR.  It's an amazing tree, a 4X4' tree holding 24 very nice fruit about the size of a large key lime.  If they hold through August, I've got it cinched.   ;)

CTMIAMI

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Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
« Reply #62 on: May 31, 2013, 05:21:01 PM »
Hey Mark is your greenhouse humid? Give that Oro Negro a little copper spray.  Oro Negro is a very robust tree, huge as I compare with others. There has been non-stop rain here for several days.
Carlos
www.myavocadotrees.com
zone 10a Miami-Dade County

johnb51

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Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
« Reply #63 on: May 31, 2013, 06:20:36 PM »
Hey Mark is your greenhouse humid? Give that Oro Negro a little copper spray.  Oro Negro is a very robust tree, huge as I compare with others. There has been non-stop rain here for several days.

Carlos, do you think the size of Oro Negro can be controlled through regular pruning?  How does the size of a Monroe tree compare?
John

CTMIAMI

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Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
« Reply #64 on: May 31, 2013, 07:43:58 PM »
John every tree specially avocado can be controlled. Oro Negro is a relative new tree I don,t know How it will react after heavy pruning every year. If its going to flower and fruit. Time will tell, What I can tell you is that it grows a lot faster than Monroe. I have them growing next to each other.
Carlos
www.myavocadotrees.com
zone 10a Miami-Dade County

Mark in Texas

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Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
« Reply #65 on: May 31, 2013, 10:18:15 PM »
My greenhouse is not humid compared to Miami.  50% RH at best.

 Took a look at the Oro Negro tree today,  It's only 3' tall at best and holding 24 fine fruit approaching golf ball size.  I've given it 2 shots of Bonzi, a PGR.

« Last Edit: June 01, 2013, 09:03:52 AM by Mark in Texas »

CTMIAMI

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Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
« Reply #66 on: May 31, 2013, 11:38:41 PM »
I would remove most if not all of them. Don't give in to the pressure!
Carlos
www.myavocadotrees.com
zone 10a Miami-Dade County

johnb51

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Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
« Reply #67 on: June 01, 2013, 09:08:33 AM »
I would remove most if not all of them. Don't give in to the pressure!

Why is that, Carlos?  If it's a robust grower anyway, what harm could be done?
John

Mark in Texas

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Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
« Reply #68 on: June 01, 2013, 09:55:05 AM »
I would remove most if not all of them. Don't give in to the pressure!


Why is that, Carlos?  If it's a robust grower anyway, what harm could be done?


Psssst, over here fellers ->  http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=5808.0   :)

CTMIAMI

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Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
« Reply #69 on: June 01, 2013, 02:57:59 PM »
If I understand it correctly the tree is 36 inches tall and is holding over 20 fruit.  Regard less of the root system. I would concentrate in the first two years for the tree to grow. May be leave one or two. The tree will probably start dropping fruit because there is no way the tree can carry 50% of what it has. I have been bitten by that bug too many times only to be set back.
But every master knows his trees.................................. Hope it holds all. Send us pictures Pleaseeeeeeee.
Carlos
www.myavocadotrees.com
zone 10a Miami-Dade County

LEOOEL

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Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
« Reply #70 on: June 01, 2013, 05:24:46 PM »
I can corroborate what Carlos is saying. I once planted a grafted lychee tree and it immediatly produced fruit, which I then let grow and ripen. Afterwards, I spent many years waiting for it to fruit again. So, I also have learned my lesson, let the root system develop first and then the tree will be strong enough to produce the expected fruit crop.

Please, if any of you avocado-Indiana-Jones know of avocado cultivars that ripen in the dead winter months (preferably Zone 10), in places like California and Texas, please be sure to let us know; any help provided is much appreciated.
'Virtue', learn/teach/propagate it, you'll save others and yourself.

zands

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Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
« Reply #71 on: June 02, 2013, 12:07:13 AM »
I can corroborate what Carlos is saying. I once planted a grafted lychee tree and it immediatly produced fruit, which I then let grow and ripen. Afterwards, I spent many years waiting for it to fruit again. So, I also have learned my lesson, let the root system develop first and then the tree will be strong enough to produce the expected fruit crop.

Please, if any of you avocado-Indiana-Jones know of avocado cultivars that ripen in the dead winter months (preferably Zone 10), in places like California and Texas, please be sure to let us know; any help provided is much appreciated.


Here is the ECHO avocado variety chart. When they get ripe. http://www.echonet.org/content/fruitInformation/621. ECHO is in Ft Meyers

« Last Edit: June 02, 2013, 12:12:38 AM by zands »

Mark in Texas

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Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
« Reply #72 on: June 02, 2013, 07:37:19 AM »

Psssst, over here fellers ->  http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=5808.0   :)


^^^  Again, I explained (and linked) to a new thread I started regarding a plant's balancing act, or rather a grower's need to balance the fruit with the vigor of the plant.   As explained in the new thread, it has an incredible root system plus it is not exposed to ANY of the stresses of outdoor growing except for very temporary and passing heat.

Mark
« Last Edit: June 02, 2013, 07:46:35 AM by Mark in Texas »

CTMIAMI

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Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
« Reply #73 on: June 02, 2013, 01:32:56 PM »
Leo look at this chart. I think I will give a try to Winter Mexican. I think this is the fruit sold at Nornan Brothers in 87 Avenue south of Sunset in Miami in March and April. I think it would grow well here. Well someone is growing them. I wonder if any of the Forum member is growing it he in Dade?


Carlos
www.myavocadotrees.com
zone 10a Miami-Dade County

johnb51

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Re: Mango and/or Avocado 24/7
« Reply #74 on: June 02, 2013, 02:53:39 PM »
But in the text they say Winter Mexican is Oct-Dec.
John

 

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