The Tropical Fruit Forum

How fast does yuzu grow compared to Flying Dragon?

Yuzu is fairly vigorous growing, yet maintains a moderately dwarfed growing habit.

It might have to do with differing rates of growth. Try grafting Ichang papeda on something slower growing.

I heard that when the scion grows much slower than the rootstock, graft incompatibility is likely to show up. Sometimes it's not apparent immediately and it can fail after many months, seemingly inexplicably.

Here's the yuzu seedling. It's bigger than it was this time last year.

Just planted another Ichang papeda in the ground


This is a Changsha mandarin, planted earlier this year


will be interesting to see how they do here.

It is only 8a, but pretty far North.

A reference that may be useful:

Journal of Agricultural Research, Department of Agriculture, Volume 1, Washington D.C., October 10, 1913
Citrus ichangensis, A promising, hardy, new species from Southwestern China and Assam, article by Walter T. Swingle

some excerpts:

" This species is cultivated in the vicinity of Ichang, and it bears a very large lemonlike fruit that is of sufficiently good quality to cause it to be shipped to markets several hundred miles distant.
In China this species occurs in an undoubted wild state in the hills of the Upper Yangtze Valley from Ichang west and southwest in Hupeh, Szechwan, and Kwichow, growing at altitudes of 1,500 to 6,000 feet. In Assam a closely related but slightly different form is found at an altitude of 5,000 to 6,000 feet in the Khasi Hills.

The species thus ranges over a region at least 1,500 miles long and some 500 miles wide.

This plant is reported in all parts of its range as growing in a truly wild state and is cultivated on a small scale around Ichang along the Yangtze River, where the fruit is called the "Ichang lemon" by foreigners.

The typical Citrus ichangensis as it occurs in southwestern China is a small tree or a large shrub, usually 5 to 15 feet high (1.5 to 5 meters), but sometimes reaching 20 feet. It also occurs wild in fruiting condition only 2 to 3 feet high on the cliffs of the Yangtze Gorges. "

The article also makes mention to both a wild and cultivated form with slightly better fruit quality.

" Mr. E. H. Wilson informs the writer that the form of this species cultivated in the Ichang region yields an excellent fruit known to foreign residents of the Yangtze Vallet as the "Ichang lemon." These fruits are shipped down the river to Hankow and west well into Szechwan, and are so much esteemed as to command good prices.

So far as is now known, Citrus ichangensis is native farther north than any other evergreen species of Citrus, only the deciduous Citrus trifoliata having a more northerly range. Besides having the northernmost range of any known evergreen species of Citrus it occurs at the highest altitudes reported for any wild species of the genus. In the Hsingshan District, in latitude 31° 10', Mr. Wilson collected this plant at an altitude of 4,200 feet, and Pére Cavalerie found it in central Kweichow at a height of 5,577 feet. "

I've noticed that Poncirus hybrid seedlings are slower growing than other seedlings.

I've been growing a large number of different seedlings, so I think I can make this observation.
I've grown 2 seedlings from US 852 (Changsha mandarin x trifoliate), 3 seedlings from Tai-tri (taiwanica x trifoliate), 2 seedlings from N1tri (ichangensis x trifoliate), and without exception they have all seemed to grow very slow, certainly relative to other seedlings.
I've also been growing numerous seedlings from Ichangquat (kumquat x ichangensis) and a few cuttings from C. ichangensis. The Ichangquat grows very vigorously, even more vigorously than Yuzu, which also grows vigorously. The C. ichangensis cuttings have grown relatively slow, but reliably, with steady, healthy, and continuous growth. I do also have one seedling from Thomasville citrangequat, it has grown about as fast as kumquat, only about medium vigor. Unfortunately I don't have any pure trifoliate seedlings to compare to.

I think this should not be surprising. When two different plant species are hybridized together that are farther apart from each other in terms of relation, the result is often offspring with a slower growth rate and slightly stunted, or often with generally poorer health. It's presumably due to slight incompatibility between the genetic makeup of the two parents, since they are so distantly related (This is termed outbreeding depression )

Obviously Poncirus trifoliata is less related to the general citrus family than other citrus species are.

For comparison, taiwanica is vigorous and fast growing, and Changsha mandarin is a little slower growing but its growth is very reliable and healthy.
C. ichangensis is also slower growing (slower than Changsha mandarin) yet with very healthy reliable steady growth.
The trifoliate hybrid seedlings are all even slower growing than C. ichangensis, and do not have as healthy reliable robust growth.

What's interesting here is that since I am growing seedlings of hybrids, we are possibly getting to examine the effects in the F2 generation.
I believe some of these seedlings may not be nucellar.
I know citrangequat is said to always have nucellar seed, but my seedling (I harvested it from the fruit myself) seems to have mostly normal unifoliate leaves, with only two malformed bifoliate leaves, reminiscent that it has some trifoliate parentage in its ancestry.
Around half the Ichangquat seedlings appear to have obviously variable leaf morphology, so are almost certainly zygotic.

I do also have a Dimicelli cutting (probably either a citrandarin, F2 citrandarin seedling, or maybe second generation citrandarin cross with the tangor 'Temple Orange' , its exact origins are a little ambiguous) and it has been growing rather slowly, though with steady reliable growth.

The only trifoliate hybrid I have grown with vigorous robust growth is Duncan citrumelo (trifoliate x grapefruit) but even it is not as fast growing as grapefruit (in warm growing conditions).

I know this is hardly a controlled scientific study, but I believe with the number of seedlings I have been growing, this is strongly anecdotal, and this generalized observation may have value.

Maybe someone here (I am sure there are plenty) who has grown Poncirus seedlings can comment on how they grow compared to other citrus seedlings.

If Poncirus hybrids tend to be much slower growing, it may be of particular importance to try to select the most vigorous seedlings in hybridization attempts. I believe there is a strong correlation between level of vigor and ability to recover after cold damage.

Hmm, interesting, I just checked on my little Kaffir lime seedlings and they don't seem to have very big petioles. I harvested them from the fruits myself.

Maybe these are actually some different type of Kaffir lime, or maybe the winged petioles are not apparent until later?

I am looking at pictures online and it looks like maybe small Kaffir lime leaves do not develop a symmetrical sized leaf petiole until later.
https://petalsandwings.blog/2015/06/06/growing-kaffir-lime-from-seeds/
Their seedlings look a lot like mine.

A Vietnamese store near here is selling little plants of Kaffir lime, and they have the symmetric winged petioles. I've also bought fresh Kaffir lime leaves from them at the market.

US 852 (Changsha mandarin x trifoliate) seedlings.  Which trifoliate did you use?

Perhaps you misunderstand. The seedlings came from US 852.
So that would be the F2 generation.

In some ways that makes things more interesting. Sometimes recessive traits can get expressed in the second generation that did not get expressed in the first hybrid generation, or certain undesirable dominant traits can be eliminated. There's the potential for the F2 generation to inherit the best of both traits from both original parents that weren't possible in the F1 generation.

The little Yuzu seedling has recovered to about the same size it was this time last year.

My prior research, reading things from different sources on different forums and the internet, led me to believe Yuzu is hardy down to approximately 10 °F.
But it may suffer some light damage that low. And that's a larger plant, not a smaller size.

many people claimed that citrus grown from seed is more cold tolerant than rooted cuttings. Isn't it true? Please confirm that for me.

The only time grown from seed would make a difference is if the seedling happened to get a better mix of genes making it cold hardier than the parent (majority of the time not the case) or if not being a different variety from the roots would make a difference. Being grafted onto a different type of rootstock always creates some small degree of incompatibility, typically resulting in slower growth and smaller size. So the issue there would not really be whether it was grown from seed, but whether it was grafted onto different rootstock or was growing on its own roots.

  I don't think Atlanta winter would be worst than the winter in Tibet.

There are different elevations in Tibet. If Yuzu grows in that region, it would only be at the lower elevations. There are several different climate areas in Tibet, I don't think Yuzu would grow in the harsh climate area foreigners typically associate with Tibet.

In the Pacific Northwest (in the US) the two best varieties for the climate (zone 8a) are generally considered to be Desert King and Olympian.
I'm not sure if those varieties are available to you in Serbia, or if they might be sold under different names.

You will need the right variety that can ripen properly in your climate before the Winter.

I have no doubt delicious big figs can be grown where you are, you just need the right variety. It probably won't be the same varieties growing closer to the coast.


If I can make a suggestion, you might check out the Fig Forum at Ourfigs.com
https://www.ourfigs.com/forum/figs-home

There may be fig growers from Europe there who can point you to specific varieties appropriate for your area.