Visit to Selat / Sibetan, Bali

[HIfarm]

Ok, this is part two of my search for salak (previous posting about Sleman, Java).  I again arranged for a private car & driver and told the driver that I wanted to visit the market / farms in the Sibetan area.  From my research, I knew that there were probably in excess of 20 varieties of the Bali salak, Salacca zalacca ssp. amboinensis in this area.  This was to be our first stop to guarantee success.  We got there at about 9:30 - 10 am and found the market completely empty -- it was over and the vendors had already left.  I told the driver that was Bali's salak capital and that there had to be farms around and I wanted to visit one.  The driver didn't seem to know anything about it and basically told me I was wrong.  He made a feeble attempt by visiting an ornamental plant nursery & asking there and then reported back that there was nothing in the area.  So I grudgingly went on with the sightseeing portion of the trip.

I checked my files & the internet when I got back to the hotel.  We had another day scheduled with this same driver so I sent him the information & told him we WOULD visit the farms the next day, non-negotiable.  He now figured out where the farms were and said he knew the area.  It was in Selat in the Sibetan region.  Upon reaching the area, I had him stop at the first farm stand we came across to insure that we did not get "skunked" again.  The had "Bali" salak and Gula Pasir (I was never able to find out exactly what Bali salak is -- I think it is like the modern day Hawaiian expression "poi dog" -- a mutt of uncertain lineage.)  I bought 1/2 kg of Gula Pasir for 30,000 (about $2.25).  The fruit was very sweet and "fruity".

We arrived at the farm in the article, Agro Abian Salak.  It would have been easy to miss -- it was located high above the road with a pathway leading up to it.  The farmer was a very inventive guy.  He grows about 12 or so varieties and made salak coffee from the seed, salak tea from the skin, dried salak chips, salak honey, & salak vinegar.  We toured his nursery & got to try 4 or 5 different varieties.  Unfortunately, he only had enough of one, nenas (also spelled nanas) to sell us.  I got a kg for 20,000 (about $1.50).  I will post further about the tasting and some of the varieties he has on his farm.

Pics below:
- the farm, high above the street
- some of the products he produces
- a couple of pics of the farmer & his plants -- AWAS! (caution) lots of sharp thorns
- a close up of a Balinese salak -- these have tiny spines on them -- I did not notice these on the Javans, unless they had been cleaned off on those

[fruitlovers]

Cool!  Didn't know so many products can be made from salak. Did you get to try some of them? Wonder how salak chips would be?
When you get a chance please tell us how you would rate the different salak types you have tried?

[Stan]

Hmm,its rated by Daves Garden to 10b.  I'm not sure if anybody has grown them to fruiting though in California. I did find its been grown in Aukland New Zealand..that's sort of a rainy coastal beaches California.

[HIfarm]

I will post shortly about the tasting & more details of the various clones.  We got to try the salak coffee.  It tasted pretty much like regular coffee -- not wonderful coffee but not really horrible either. He claims to have won a silver medal for it at some coffee competition in Romania (we saw the certificate) -- go figure.  We discussed this with one of the locals at our timeshare and they insisted that it was salak seed blended with coffee beans -- I am not sure one way or the other, he gave me the impression it was just salak.  We tried the salak honey -- I can't say there was anything blatantly "salak" about it, but it had a fruity character about it that was almost jam-like.  I did pick up a few packs of salak chips but have not tried them yet.  I am trying to see if I have enough material to scrape together a presentation for the east Hawaii chapter of the HTFG, if so, I will bring the chips to pass around.

I had also read previously about fruit leather being made from salak but this guy wasn't into that yet.  I had also heard of preserves being made from salak and the chef at our timeshare actually made us some very tasty "jam" he made from some salak we gave him (too much to eat, more about that in the upcoming tasting post.

John

Cool!  Didn't know so many products can be made from salak. Did you get to try some of them? Wonder how salak chips would be?
When you get a chance please tell us how you would rate the different salak types you have tried?

[HIfarm]

We got to try a few different types at the farm.  He did not have gula pasir (means "sugar sand" -- I guess grains of sugar?).  I did get this at a roadside stand and as I reported earlier, gula pasir was quite sweet as far as salak go and fruity.  I don't recall any sourness or astringency in gula pasir.

The one variety he had enough of to sell was nenas or nanas (means pineapple).  This one was sweet with some sour (like pineapple) and smelled and tasted reminiscent of pineapple; it also had some slight astringency but not at all annoying.

We also tried kelapa (means coconut).  This one was also sweet with some sour and also a slight astringency.  There was a slight coconut essence to it -- I think if you didn't know it was supposed to taste like coconut, you might miss it at first.  I think this fruit was on the young side, perhaps the coconut would be more pronounced if perfectly ripe.

We also tried gondok.  This one was supposed to have an aroma like a tropical magnolia.  I am not sure what a tropical magnolia smells like but I wasn't detecting anything flowery about the aroma.  It had a mixture of sweet with sour -- I made a note it was similar to nenas but without the pineapple essence.  I found them all to be pleasant and to be "keepers".

It is interesting to note of the 4 varieties of Bali salak we tried, none had three seeds / fruit.  Most had two seeds and some had only a single seed.

There was one other variety of salak we took note of, even though there were none to taste.  It is a variegated variety called sudamala.  I had not seen this variety recorded when I did my research.  The farmer commented it tasted similar to some of the others, basically sweet with some sour aspect.

It is interesting to note that locals on both Java & Bali thought only a few varieties were being grown in the area.  I suppose that those were the most common (commercially) -- I guess it would be like if you asked the average American how many varieties of apples there are.  I am sure most would be hard pressed to name 6 when there are easily many dozens of varieties of apples.

We tried to moderate our tasting and limit ourselves to maybe 6 salak max / day.  I had read prior that, while excess of most fruit will give you diarrhea, salak has the opposite effect.  Everyone we talked to on both Java & Bali confirmed this.  In fact the chef at the timeshare mentioned he like to keep some salak around to help guests who get diarrhea.

Again, upon checking fruit markets, I didn't see anything we didn't already have in HI.

A final comment, I missed wani (Mangifera caesia) season -- it was a couple of months earlier but I got the impression if I had been a month earlier, I might have run into some.  Although research indicated that they also have M. caesia on Java, a worker at the timeshare originally from Solo indicated that they did not have it there.  Another worker also indicated that when wani is perfectly ripe, it has already started to ferment & the alcohol will make you sleepy.

Pics below include:
- a line up of clones we tried
- a picture of the variegated salak plant, sudamala
- salak have some flattened "tab-like" spines along with the sharp spines
- a comparison of the dark tabs most salak have and the lighter green tabs of putih and gula pasir
- many salak have red flowers (nenas pictured), some (I think he again mentioned putih & gula pasir) have white flowers
- with lots of fruit to process for seeds, some was being discarded until the chef expressed interest in it

[Finca La Isla]

A very, very nice report. 
I'm wondering if you saw much of exactly how they are propagating the salak.  We have been working with division here and it is successful but many suckers don't establish and it is slow.
Thanks, Peter

[HIfarm]

Hi Peter,

The farmer we visited did not mention propagation and I forgot to ask -- there was a lot of useful information coming at me and I guess I just forgot to ask.  In the related post I did on my trip to Java, the woman whose fruit stand we visited in Sleman had a shadehouse out back with established salak pups that she had for sale.  I had heard before that salak is propagated by these suckers but it also sounds like there is a trick to it.  As you mention, I have also heard that it can be difficult to successfully get these suckers established.

Although I was collecting seed for propagation, it is important to remember that, to faithfully reproduce the fruit, using these suckers (or mericloned plants) is the only way to go.  Seed propagated plants may differ from the parent.

Another use for salak I forgot to mention came back to me when you mentioned these pups.  Evidently, the farmer used what sounded like hearts of palm from the pups for use in stir fries.

John

[Finca La Isla]

That's interesting that they might use the palm heart.  I am going to try that.  In general we are removing all suckers from production plants as they appear unless we want to try and separate some for propagation.  Those would be small for Palm heart but there is always some sucker or another that gets removed late.
I find the salak high maintenance but worthwhile with an extended season for us from July through February and even some outside of that.  We sell it at the farmers market and, at first it was a little slow so we would dehydrate unsold salak and slip it into a dried fruit mix we sell that is mostly banana and Jakfruit.  Now it is unusual that we are left with unsold salak.
Another question; was all the salak being grown in full sun or did you see some with shade?
Thanks,
Peter

[DurianLover]

Thank you very much for sharing!

[HIfarm]

Most of what I have read state that salak is grown as an understory crop. However, most of what I saw both in Java and Bali appeared to be in full sun.  I suspect it will grow (& fruit) either way.

Another question; was all the salak being grown in full sun or did you see some with shade?
Thanks,
Peter

[Finca La Isla]

Yeah, that's why I asked. In nature Salak occurs as an understory plant and it will produce in those conditions. But, in more light with more fertilizer it seems to produce more. I promote it as one of the only commercial quality fruits that can produce without cutting the forest down. So, I'm wondering if anyone is growing it in S.E. Asia in a agroforestry scheme.

[Mike T]

Read the post graduate study on bali varieties in the library section that was posted by John of Hawaii I think.Yes Gula pasir, crumbly sugar salak, neenas, boni or red flesh and the big pineapple core lowland one that I cant remember the name of are targets.There are around 20 main varieties with a few others. Amboensis doesn't have subspecies status yet and other varieties are on nearby islands such as Ambon.

[Mike T]

Oh yeah there is no variety called bali specifically it just a generic reference.

[HIfarm]

I am EXTREMELY annoyed.  I just got word from the Honolulu APHIS station that my shipment of salak seeds were ALL germinating when received there & were destroyed.  I am incredulous that all 39 seeds were germinating within the 6 days it took to reach HNL by EMS.  I have little hope for the Javan seeds that were mistakenly sent by regular air mail due to language difficulties.

John

[fruitlovers]

I am EXTREMELY annoyed.  I just got word from the Honolulu APHIS station that my shipment of salak seeds were ALL germinating when received there & were destroyed.  I am incredulous that all 39 seeds were germinating within the 6 days it took to reach HNL by EMS.  I have little hope for the Javan seeds that were mistakenly sent by regular air mail due to language difficulties.

John

Sorry to hear that. Suggest you keep future fruits in fridge till day before departing, then process all seeds, and hand carry back.

[HIfarm]

Thanks, Oscar.  I had thought about hand carrying the seeds but that would have limited me to 50 salak seeds (evidently, USDA considers them all to be one taxon regardless of clone or whether they are ssp. zalacca or ssp. amboinensis) and I had hopes of bringing back as many worthwhile clones as possible.  I never dreamed that I would have a problem with many germinating during the brief shipping time.

I know you have posted about hand carrying in the past but I have been unable to find the post.  Can I trouble you to comment again about hand carrying through HNL?  How long do you allow between flights (your international flight & your Hilo connection)? Do you have any ideas of what the APHIS/USDA hours are?  (checked on line but can find nothing on it)  Any other tidbits / pointers you could share would be great.

John

Sorry to hear that. Suggest you keep future fruits in fridge till day before departing, then process all seeds, and hand carry back.

[fruitlovers]

Thanks, Oscar.  I had thought about hand carrying the seeds but that would have limited me to 50 salak seeds (evidently, USDA considers them all to be one taxon regardless of clone or whether they are ssp. zalacca or ssp. amboinensis) and I had hopes of bringing back as many worthwhile clones as possible.  I never dreamed that I would have a problem with many germinating during the brief shipping time.

I know you have posted about hand carrying in the past but I have been unable to find the post.  Can I trouble you to comment again about hand carrying through HNL?  How long do you allow between flights (your international flight & your Hilo connection)? Do you have any ideas of what the APHIS/USDA hours are?  (checked on line but can find nothing on it)  Any other tidbits / pointers you could share would be great.

John

Sorry to hear that. Suggest you keep future fruits in fridge till day before departing, then process all seeds, and hand carry back.

You misunderstood the rule. Lots of people make this mistake because the rule as worded is kind of ambiguous. You can bring 500 salak seeds if you want. For example, the 500 seeds would need to be in 10 bags of 50 salak seeds each. You can also have bags of less than 50 if necessary. This rule is intended to make visual inspection through the bags easy. Not to limit numbers or taxons.
You would need to return M-F 8 to 4 pm for ag to be open. Otherwise you're forced to leave seeds there and they forward them to you later. Leave minimum 2 hours between flights 3 would be safer. But this depends on number of people ahead of you and amount of material to be inspected, so hard to say exactly.

[HIfarm]

Thanks, Oscar, that info is helpful. 

Regarding numbers, evidently this must vary with the agent and their interpretation.  I discussed this in depth by email prior to the trip with Merren.  She was very clear that it was 50 seeds total per taxon per shipment and various clones or subspecies of the same species were all one taxon.  For that reason, I brought sufficient materials and copies of my permit & labels to do 6+ shipments.  I suppose that they may be more likely to cut you slack if you are there in person as opposed to inspecting a shipment mailed to them.  I will have to try to hand carry if I am attempting this again at some point in the future.

You misunderstood the rule. Lots of people make this mistake because the rule as worded is kind of ambiguous. You can bring 500 salak seeds if you want. For example, the 500 seeds would need to be in 10 bags of 50 salak seeds each. You can also have bags of less than 50 if necessary. This rule is intended to make visual inspection through the bags easy. Not to limit numbers or taxons.
You would need to return M-F 8 to 4 pm for ag to be open. Otherwise you're forced to leave seeds there and they forward them to you later. Leave minimum 2 hours between flights 3 would be safer. But this depends on number of people ahead of you and amount of material to be inspected, so hard to say exactly.

[Kona fruit farm]

HI farm.  I just returned from Thailand with over 150 durian seeds.  All the same zibethinus... (Just different varieties) I was emailing back and forth extensively with merren to get clarification while in Thailand.   It is as oscar says 50 per bag.  In my case I had small ziplock bags with less that 20 per bag.   I had an entire backpack full of seeds.    At the usda inspection place they just took out 3-4 bags and looked at them.  Made sure they were cleaned. Looked at my permit.  And sent me on my way. Took 5 min.   

So the gist that merren said was yes you can have more that 50 of one species but you have to have in separate bags of less than 50 per bag.

[HIfarm]

Thanks Oscar & KFF.  I went back & read through the correspondence with Merren.  It still sounded like 50 seeds per taxon per shipment but some of the wording was ambiguous enough that I think I misinterpreted what she was saying (most of my dealings with APHIS & plant shipments has been unpleasant so I may have been biased to expect bad news).  What you are reporting is a lot more reasonable.  Good to know.  Also good to hear that you breezed through so easily & quickly KFF. I wish I had raised the question on the group prior to the trip but I thought I was being more safe by going to the "source". 

John

[fruitlovers]

Thanks, Oscar, that info is helpful. 

Regarding numbers, evidently this must vary with the agent and their interpretation.  I discussed this in depth by email prior to the trip with Merren.  She was very clear that it was 50 seeds total per taxon per shipment and various clones or subspecies of the same species were all one taxon.  For that reason, I brought sufficient materials and copies of my permit & labels to do 6+ shipments.  I suppose that they may be more likely to cut you slack if you are there in person as opposed to inspecting a shipment mailed to them.  I will have to try to hand carry if I am attempting this again at some point in the future.

You misunderstood the rule. Lots of people make this mistake because the rule as worded is kind of ambiguous. You can bring 500 salak seeds if you want. For example, the 500 seeds would need to be in 10 bags of 50 salak seeds each. You can also have bags of less than 50 if necessary. This rule is intended to make visual inspection through the bags easy. Not to limit numbers or taxons.
You would need to return M-F 8 to 4 pm for ag to be open. Otherwise you're forced to leave seeds there and they forward them to you later. Leave minimum 2 hours between flights 3 would be safer. But this depends on number of people ahead of you and amount of material to be inspected, so hard to say exactly.

They don't want you to mix different taxon in same bag. It's not a rule open to interpretation, although new inspection officers often get confused. But Merren fully understands it.