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Messages - usirius

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1

Does anyone else grow Kyoho or ruby Roman? Has it ever produced the golf ball sized grapes? Do they taste the same as the ones in Japan?

I am growing Kyoho and the fruits are really extraordinary karge. Kyoho beeds  a long warm season  to make sure rhat the fruits grow karfe,  get fully colored and mature snd sweet.

I bought my Kyoho from
 a nursery which is spezialzed on propagating and selling only grape vines..

2
Temperate Fruit Buy, Sell, & Trade / Re: Free Asiminia triloba seeds
« on: November 19, 2020, 01:56:48 PM »
I have many seeds
I am always trying to have seeds of different area's to widen the gene pool (In woods wild planting)
Maybe I could trade for different pawpaw seeds as someone could use these,
and do not want to ask of something I already have, (My Mom taught me that)

Would you want that Take some of my seeds spread them where your family lives, and send me some of yours from Michigan ?
(or anyone else send me some from there area for some of mine)

From a good friend I got few pawpaw seeds from the area of Сочи - fruits are large and tasty. I am looking forward to grow them succesful.

3
Temperate Fruit Buy, Sell, & Trade / Re: WTB sweet cherry scions
« on: November 19, 2020, 05:55:28 AM »
Hi, I can send you scions in early spring from a yummy wild sweet black cherry and from "Hedelfinger" a well tasting dark red sweet cherry and maybe also one or two unnamed varieties, if you like them also. In case of interest send me a PN.

4
Temperate Fruit Discussion / Re: Cherimoya/Pawpaw hybrid
« on: September 06, 2020, 03:35:00 PM »
Those plants look extremely healthy. Keep us updated! Great progress
Thanks for your feedback. Yes I will keep you informed as well. There would already be a lot more to tell. For example, the difference in the seedlings - this could perhaps be an indication of differences in the chromosome sets. According to the studies shown in the above-mentioned postscript that seedlings of hybrids can have different chromosome sets in different proportions,. Then I could show pictures of the seeds, which actually looked very strange. Soon I will harvest a pawpaw fruit that was pollinated with cherimoya pollen, I will definitely take pictures of the seeds and document all interesting observations about the future seedlings.

5
Temperate Fruit Discussion / Re: Cherimoya/Pawpaw hybrid
« on: September 05, 2020, 04:13:33 PM »
@ Guanabanus
Very constructive and interesting - your report on the hybrid you made - thank you for this Information.


Yes absolutely, a polyploid hybrid does not have to be fertile.

Also there are examples which show that polyploidy can help to get fertile plant  hybrids. The cereale hybrid Triticiale - a cross between wheat (Triticum aestivum L.) as the female and rye (Secale cereale L.) as the male partner (×Triticosecale or Triticosecale Wittmack) ) the chromosome sets were doubled by using colchicine in the seedlings to obtain fertile offspring. In other words, the doubling of the chromosome sets could only lead to reproductive ability. Triticiale offsprings are usually selsbstungen from Trticicale x Triticiale h itself would actually have the possibility to work with colhizin, but I have not yet worked with it. I would have to read in and study the method, then I could also use it on the Annonaceae.

At this point I like to remember to one of my last posts - to the presentation which takes a summary of

Haldan's rule and the hybridogenic speciation and postzygotic incompatibility. Haldane (1892-1964) was a British Indian geneticist.

https://www.kunz.hhu.de/fileadmin/redaktion/Fakultaeten/Mathematisch-Naturwissenschaftliche_Fakultaet/Biologie/Institute/weitere_und_ehemalige_Dozenten/Prof._Dr._Kunz/07_Haldane_hybridogene_Artbildung.ppt (Sorry that it is written in German language. But the pictures will help to explain.)

So in genetics everything is possible. From no result to infertility to the emergence of a separate species with differentiation by developing an incompatibility to backcrossing with the parents. In the plant kingdom the development of incompatible hybrids

At this point I would also like to refer to another interesting report and quote from it: I think some of you, you maybe anyway, I will already know, A. muricata is also mentioned, sorry not A. coriacea )

Polyploidy in Fruit Tree Crops of the Genus Annona (Annonaceae)
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6378316/
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/331019625_Polyploidy_in_Fruit_Tree_Crops_of_the_Genus_Annona_Annonaceae/fulltext/5c6181d692851c48a9ca964d/Polyploidy-in-Fruit-Tree-Crops-of-the-Genus-Annona-Annonaceae.pdf
"Genome duplication or polyploidy is one of the main factors of speciation in plants. It is especially frequent in hybrids and very valuable in many crops. (...) Surprisingly, while the hybrid atemoya has been reported as diploid, flow cytometry analysis of a progeny obtained from an interspecific cross between A. cherimola and A. squamosa showed an unusual ploidy variability that was also confirmed karyotype analysis. hile the progeny from intraspecific crosses of A. cherimola showed polyploid genotypes that ranged from 2.5 to 33%, the hybrid atemoyas from the interspecific cross showed 35% of triploids from a total of 186 genotypes analyzed. With the aim of understanding the possible implications of the production of non-reduced gametes, pollen performance, pollen size and frequency distribution of pollen grains was quantified in the progeny of this cross and the parents. A large polymorphism in pollen grain size was found within the interspecific progeny with higher production of unreduced pollen in triploids (38%) than in diploids (29%). Moreover, using PCR amplification of selected microsatellite loci, while 13.7% of the pollen grains from the diploids showed two alleles, 41.28% of the grains from the triploids amplified two alleles and 5.63% showed up to three alleles. This suggests that the larger pollen grains could correspond to diploid and, in a lower frequency, to triploid pollen. Pollen performance was also affected with lower pollen germination in the hybrid triploids than in both diploid parents. The results confirm a higher percentage of polyploids in the interspecific cross, affecting pollen grain size and pollen performance. The occurrence of unreduced gametes in A. cherimola, A. squamosa and their interspecific progeny that may result in abnormalities of ploidy such as the triploids and tetraploids observed in this study, opens an interesting opportunity to study polyploidy in Annonaceae.
(...)
Polyploidy is believed to be a major mechanism of adaptation and speciation, recognized as a major force in evolution (Van de Peer et al., 2017) and very valuable for crop improvement (Udall and Wendel, 2006; Mason, 2016). Polyploidy is more common in plants than in animals. It is estimated that between 30 and 70% of extant flowering plant species are polyploids (...)"

More I will not paste here. The best is to study the complete report by yourself!

Bytheway...to my new hybridizations of this year there is again a small setback. One of the ovaries, which took weeks to show that pollination was successful, has now decided to dry out after some growth. Another one is still in good shape, I hope it stays that way. Last year, such an ovary grew into a strongly deformed fruit, which is another sign of an unusual way of embryo formation. Unfortunately this fruit dried up in centimeter size and still hangs on the tree like a mummy. I have pictures, but I do not want to overload this post!

6
Temperate Fruit Discussion / Re: Cherimoya/Pawpaw hybrid
« on: September 05, 2020, 04:11:18 PM »
@ Guanabanus
Very constructive and interesting - your report on the hybrid you made - thank you for this Information!.


Yes absolutely, a polyploid hybrid does not have to be fertile.

Also there are examples which show that polyploidy can help to get fertile plant  hybrids. The cereale hybrid Triticiale - a cross between wheat (Triticum aestivum L.) as the female and rye (Secale cereale L.) as the male partner (×Triticosecale or Triticosecale Wittmack) ) the chromosome sets were doubled by using colchicine in the seedlings to obtain fertile offspring. In other words, the doubling of the chromosome sets could only lead to reproductive ability. Triticiale offsprings are usually selsbstungen from Trticicale x Triticiale h itself would actually have the possibility to work with colhizin, but I have not yet worked with it. I would have to read in and study the method, then I could also use it on the Annonaceae.

At this point I like to remember to one of my last posts - to the presentation which takes a summary of

Haldan's rule and the hybridogenic speciation and postzygotic incompatibility. Haldane (1892-1964) was a British Indian geneticist.

https://www.kunz.hhu.de/fileadmin/redaktion/Fakultaeten/Mathematisch-Naturwissenschaftliche_Fakultaet/Biologie/Institute/weitere_und_ehemalige_Dozenten/Prof._Dr._Kunz/07_Haldane_hybridogene_Artbildung.ppt (Sorry that it is written in German language. But the pictures will help to explain.)

So in genetics everything is possible. From no result to infertility to the emergence of a separate species with differentiation by developing an incompatibility to backcrossing with the parents. In the plant kingdom the development of incompatible hybrids

At this point I would also like to refer to another interesting report and quote from it: I think some of you, you maybe anyway, I will already know, A. muricata is also mentioned, sorry not A. coriacea )

Polyploidy in Fruit Tree Crops of the Genus Annona (Annonaceae)
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6378316/
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/331019625_Polyploidy_in_Fruit_Tree_Crops_of_the_Genus_Annona_Annonaceae/fulltext/5c6181d692851c48a9ca964d/Polyploidy-in-Fruit-Tree-Crops-of-the-Genus-Annona-Annonaceae.pdf
"Genome duplication or polyploidy is one of the main factors of speciation in plants. It is especially frequent in hybrids and very valuable in many crops. (...) Surprisingly, while the hybrid atemoya has been reported as diploid, flow cytometry analysis of a progeny obtained from an interspecific cross between A. cherimola and A. squamosa showed an unusual ploidy variability that was also confirmed karyotype analysis. hile the progeny from intraspecific crosses of A. cherimola showed polyploid genotypes that ranged from 2.5 to 33%, the hybrid atemoyas from the interspecific cross showed 35% of triploids from a total of 186 genotypes analyzed. With the aim of understanding the possible implications of the production of non-reduced gametes, pollen performance, pollen size and frequency distribution of pollen grains was quantified in the progeny of this cross and the parents. A large polymorphism in pollen grain size was found within the interspecific progeny with higher production of unreduced pollen in triploids (38%) than in diploids (29%). Moreover, using PCR amplification of selected microsatellite loci, while 13.7% of the pollen grains from the diploids showed two alleles, 41.28% of the grains from the triploids amplified two alleles and 5.63% showed up to three alleles. This suggests that the larger pollen grains could correspond to diploid and, in a lower frequency, to triploid pollen. Pollen performance was also affected with lower pollen germination in the hybrid triploids than in both diploid parents. The results confirm a higher percentage of polyploids in the interspecific cross, affecting pollen grain size and pollen performance. The occurrence of unreduced gametes in A. cherimola, A. squamosa and their interspecific progeny that may result in abnormalities of ploidy such as the triploids and tetraploids observed in this study, opens an interesting opportunity to study polyploidy in Annonaceae.
(...)
Polyploidy is believed to be a major mechanism of adaptation and speciation, recognized as a major force in evolution (Van de Peer et al., 2017) and very valuable for crop improvement (Udall and Wendel, 2006; Mason, 2016). Polyploidy is more common in plants than in animals. It is estimated that between 30 and 70% of extant flowering plant species are polyploids (...)"

More I will not paste here. The best is to study the complete report by yourself!

Bytheway...to my new hybridizations of this year there is again a small setback. One of the ovaries, which took weeks to show that pollination was successful, has now decided to dry out after some growth. Another one is still in good shape, I hope it stays that way. Last year, such an ovary grew into a strongly deformed fruit, which is another sign of an unusual way of embryo formation. Unfortunately this fruit dried up in centimeter size and still hangs on the tree like a mummy. I have pictures, but I do not want to overload this post!

7
Temperate Fruit Discussion / Re: Cherimoya/Pawpaw hybrid
« on: September 05, 2020, 02:17:07 AM »
keep us posted
Yes I will share any news here. Soon I will harvest the first Pawpaw fruit which flower has polinated with Cherimoya pollen. From this fruit and fromthe seeds I will share pictures.

Is there a way to genetically test the leaf? Maybe some university nearby that has something that could count the chromosomes?
Certainly there are institutes and universities here that could carry out a genetic analysis. Years ago, I wanted to have one done on a very interesting Vitis hybrid, which I created by open pollination, and I have contacted several institutions. Most of them refused, because they are busy with their own work, and the few who would have done it, demanded unreasonably much money. So I prefer to wait until I can see from other characteristics whether I have achieved hybrids or not. And if it worked, the chromosome set has to be doubled, because of the different chromosome sets of Cherimoya and Pawpaw.

This is super exciting stuff. Thank you for doing this experiment.
Thank you - you are welcome! I have to admit, it is also fun and all objections, comments and suggestions are inspiring and absolutely valuable for the evaluation and further development of this experiment!

That delay in fruit-set development is very interesting!

I don't recall having observed that.

I did sometimes observe the opposite, where foreign pollinations would be rejected so fast that there seemed to be an allergic reaction.
Interesting is also your observation and I think this does not contradict my observation, because the majority of Cherimoya flowers pollinated with Pawpaw pollen reacts in principle as u wrote, a very short time passes, mostly even shorter than if the flowers had not been pollinated, and the flower dries up and dies, The death of the flower is different and may give an indication whether perhaps genetic processes have already started or not. Some flowers dry out very quickly and evenly, i.e. petals and base of fruit, and some flowers first let the three petals dry out - like a dry mummy, which often remains loose at the base of fruit - and then dry out later with a little delay.



8
Temperate Fruit Discussion / Re: Cherimoya/Pawpaw hybrid
« on: September 04, 2020, 05:05:33 PM »
@TrilobaTracker and @Guanabanus- Thank you for your contributions and thoughts. Well, I have excluded 99,9% of external influences, because on the one hand the flowers have bloomed single and on the other hand I have protected them against possible cross-pollination by insects with a microporous bag. If self-pollination has occurred, it is something I had no influence on, and I do not want to exclude it, and that is - if the seedlings are not hybrids - with 99,9% probability. But what makes me positive is that by varying many parameters I was able to optimize - beginning by the selection of the optimal pollen donor for pollination up up to more and more refinement of the process steps and boundary conditions to achieve the greatest possible probable pollination success, and this reproducible. This means, that there are many important things you have to pay no attention to, and here the right time of pollination is the least problem. Then I also noticed that there is a clear difference between pollinating Cherimoya flowers with cherimoya pollen and pollinating Cherimoya flowers with Pawpaw pollen. If Cherimoya flowers are pollinated with Cherimoxya pollen, it takes a few days and you can see that the pollination is successful and the ovary grows. If Cherimoya flowers are pollinated with Pawpaw pollen, it takes weeks and you get the impression that the plant is thinking about whether this was a pollination at all. And during this time most pollinated ovaries fall off. And a few of them, after several weeks, begin to decide to stay on and grow very slowly. This could be an indication of meiotic chromosome duplication without cell division. I can say more if the seedlings are in an older stage. At the same time I am also producing the inverse hybrid on Pawpaw as mother plant and I have also some more this year's fruit sets with pollination by Pawpaw pollen on the Cherimoya mother plant, which are a bit bigger than pinhead size.

9
Temperate Fruit Discussion / Re: Cherimoya/Pawpaw hybrid
« on: September 04, 2020, 04:48:05 AM »
Yes, that may well be, although I have had cherimoya seedlings with much smaller leaves. You have to know that we had a lot of heat and sun this year, and the seedlings were always in full sun. Due to the circumstances, they should have made rather small leaves, but they didn't! I will of course continue to observe what happens.

10
Temperate Fruit Discussion / Re: How do you prepare paw paw fruit?
« on: September 04, 2020, 04:44:18 AM »
I think you are with the word "preparing" not asking for recipes here, I think you are asking for the taste impression.

I think that Pawpaws taste like a mixture of melon, banana, mango and a little bit of pineapple. I think the melon taste predominates, but I have friends who think the mango taste predominates, others think it tastes like a mixture of banana and passion fruit. Of course there are differences between the varieties in taste, fruit size and the ratio of seeds to pulp. In any case, they have fewer seeds than cherimoya, I think. They are also not as juicy as a ripe cherimoya, but more creamy. The taste of a cherimoya I would describe as a mixture of pineapple, some melon, some strawberry and banana. I can't taste the mango, but I can with pawpaw. By the way, there are also pawpaws with an unpleasant aftertaste or taste, especially the Sunflower variety. But I don't know any Paw-Paw variety with fruit acid.

11
Temperate Fruit Discussion / Re: Cherimoya/Pawpaw hybrid
« on: September 03, 2020, 02:45:49 PM »
Thank you Guanabanus for your feedback.

Now as you mention this  I have realized that the seedlings which have sprout in June/July are growing extremely vigorously, even though they are crammed together in a relatively small flower pot with not very valuable soil, and that they are twelve in one, maybe the vigor is another sign that the seedlings are hybrids? Because hybrids often grow stronger than their parents. And a double set of chromosomes would also lead to stronger growth, which could also explain the extremely large leaves for these young plants, which are also full sunny - just like the cherimoya mother plant, which has much smaller leaves :-)

12
Temperate Fruit Discussion / Re: Cherimoya/Pawpaw hybrid
« on: September 02, 2020, 02:41:49 PM »
Concerning my hybridization trial I am now sharing some actual pictures:

- Original mother plant Annona cherimola without pronounced leaf tip








- Original father plant Asimina triloba with pronounced leaf tip







- hybrid (?) seedlings with pronounced leaf tip



It is not yet a proof, but it is an interesting feature, and of course it is up to the individual to form an opinion about whether the hybridization has worked. I will raise a part of the seedlings until flowering, and I have also produced other hybrid fruits on both parents, which are now ripening and whose seeds will be sown next year.  I am confident that I have achieved a breakthrough here.



13
Temperate Fruit Discussion / Re: Cherimoya/Pawpaw hybrid
« on: August 29, 2020, 07:18:44 PM »
It is very interesting that hybridization in nature also works differently, as known from Mendel's law. Partly there are demarcations and formation of new species after hybridizations. It is amazing that many of our cultivars were made possible by hybridization of species with different sets of chromosomes, and this was possible 1000's of years ago without genetic engineering! How does that work? Quite simply, in meiotic mating, plants have the possibility to double the DNA without cell division by endomitosis, making the cell tetraploid. If the number of chromosomes doubles to (allo)tetraploidy by mitotic nondisjunction (endomitosis), the hybrids can make normal reduction division, because for each chromosome there is a homologous partner with which it can mate during meiosis.

(source: https://www.kunz.hhu.de/fileadmin/redaktion/Fakultaeten/Mathematisch-Naturwissenschaftliche_Fakultaet/Biologie/Institute/weitere_und_ehemalige_Dozenten/Prof._Dr._Kunz/07_Haldane_hybridogene_Artbildung.ppt)
 
Of course this effect can be provoked by various methods, as described in previous posts. But my hope is that it works without supporting measures, and I have received fruit attachments that definitely did not come from pollination with its own pollen. Now it is time to attract seedlings from the seed and to evaluate them.




14
Back to the vitis discussion:
The very rare wild growing firm of the European grape vines  Vitis sylvestris ssp. sylvestris (male) is growing on my land if anyone like to breed Vitis riparia or other anerican native Vitis with pollen from it I can cut some scions in winter, or send pollen when it is flowering again.

It has been a while since I've read up on it , but I have had some breeding idea's , for American Wine grapes
(Hybrids of Our native grapes , with Europe's  Vitis  vinifera)
My Idea's Could be cleared up by checking my emails, but It goes something like this

Since Wild grapes are  (Vitis vinifera Variation )Sylvestris , (spelling)
and the more cultivated Section Is (V. vinifera VAR.) Pontica used more in table grapes

The wine grapes Over there (V. vinifera Var.)Occidentalis A Mix of Wild, and Table.

Instead of already Using European Section of grape Occidentalis
with both WIld, and table Var. Pontica genes

Cut out the Table, and use the Wild (sylvstris )  with ours

OR
USe the European Vitis Vinifera  (var.) Pontica (table) , and use our Wild grapes

(I have a couple secrets , to my self too) (kind of try to explain below.
 Although Intuitive , and not following what is passed around online
I may have found something that is looked down at according to common knowledge online
That I will keep to myself
  , and found something Useful ,
but could be wrong since wine flavors change as they Age ,
 but at least good for Table grapes I believe so. (I mean it is out there )

Off that topic
I will say this though Always like to see some wild types,
 and see if they have any interesting wine flavors
On grape was drying out into dust, and had a nice taste of Chocolate in the wine.

15
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Hardy citrus growing in Switzerland
« on: June 17, 2020, 08:01:36 AM »
@mikkel: Thanks, but this table is already well known, it doesn't help me, it is unfortunately too ambiguous to determine my hybrids exactly, and it doesn't contain any pictures. The only thing that might help here are specimens from people who still have them growing to compare with, so you can rule out what it is not, and maybe find what it is. Therefore the idea that @Zitrusgaertner with photos of his HRS899 F and HRS899 J and I make a comparison based on my photos together.

16
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Hardy citrus growing in Switzerland
« on: June 17, 2020, 05:45:38 AM »
@Till
yes, this is actually the same tree from which you got a fruit back then and from which I photographed the fruit last year

By the way, after the fruit I gave you, the tree has stopped growing, so first not for a while, then a fruit has grown and now there are more and more fruits per season, I think now the tree is stable adult.

Don't worry that you didn't get in touch with me anymore, it happens, although I am glad that you can still remember me, and I regret that you didn't keep in touch. But it is just human and also due to capacity that one cannot keep all contacts alive with the same attention.

@ Zitrusgaertner

The tree bears stable trifoliate leaves, relatively large, i.e. larger than Poncirus trifoliata, slightly wavy.  I can post pictures which show the leaves, maybe you can compare them to your 899F and 899H .

17
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Hardy citrus growing in Switzerland
« on: May 30, 2020, 03:42:06 AM »
Thanks Florian for the posting. This hybrid actually seems to be one of the best hybrids selected so far. I will plant this one as well, I am still looking for a source of material (scions or plants). I have a copy of the Poncirus x Changsha seedlings that Bernhard Voss made in the early nineties. The version I have is tested hardy outdoors to -17°C without damage (it was not colder for me yet) and is reliably fruiting every year with fruits, whose skin has 1/3 to 1/4 Poncirin of Poncirus fruits, and the content not at all, pleasant citrus aroma, not sweet, but a bit tangerine-like, for juice, lemonade, jam in my opinion very suitable. I have posted about this several times already. One should take such selected hybrids as crossing partners for further breeding work...then maybe one day you will get a poncirin-free and yet hardy citrus!


18
Temperate Fruit Discussion / Re: "Southern" Pawpaw Source?
« on: May 27, 2020, 03:35:11 PM »
Great, thank you for sharing your impressions and expreriences while tasting these rare and special PawPAw. It seems to me that unlike Asimina obovata or Asimina parviflora it is also interesting as wild fruit.  If one day you can spare one or two seeds, I would be happy about it, and the plants growing from those seeds will live and grow not far away from the region "Odenwald" ;-)

19
Temperate Fruit Discussion / Re: Asiminaholics Anonymous
« on: May 05, 2020, 03:57:04 PM »
Speaking of thinning, I just found one of my Shenandoah baby fruits has been sawed in half:



It’s a clean cut. I had thinned this cluster to one fruitlet, and it was about pinto bean sized.

What in the world?!?

That's too bad. My guess is that an insect ate the small fruit. Probably the other half will die. I hope that other fruits have formed and the monster does not get an appetite for them as well;-) My Susquehanna from last year is not blooming yet, I hope she will do so next year.

20
Temperate Fruit Buy, Sell, & Trade / Re: Wanted chestnut, walnut, oaks
« on: April 15, 2020, 04:12:41 PM »
Hi Sergey,

okay,  I only do not know the botanical names o f some wild gropwing trees with their botanical names but I iwll take some photoes of some where I am thinking which can be interesting for you! From Junglans nigra or from my  Junglans regia with thin S´nut shells I have currently nuts from last autumn available.

From our local "German" Oaks I have collected many nuts last year for trying a told method to attract woodworms  wooden things, but this method did not work therefore I threw al oaks away in winter...and I used concentrated vinegar for killing them - and, this worked....


21
Does Anybody gave any Rubus Xanthocarpus Hybrid Seeds?

I have the Rubus Xanthocarpus but this is no hybrid.

22
Temperate Fruit Buy, Sell, & Trade / Re: Wanted chestnut, walnut, oaks
« on: April 13, 2020, 04:20:21 PM »
Hi Forester, if you are also interested in common oaks growing in Germany I can take some pictures of oaks which are growing in my surrounding. I also have walnut on my land which produces extremely hard nuts which are also a little bit larger than normal walnuts. I cab take photoes of them end of September.

23
Temperate Fruit Discussion / Re: Asiminaholics Anonymous
« on: April 13, 2020, 04:09:00 PM »
Flowers are open on one of my trees, buds are on three or four more. Interesting that California is behind Tennessee in bloom time.

Too bad your anticipation was spoiled so quickly, but I know what it's like. They bloom a few times at first before they keep and train the fruit after maybe another two years.

The experience I have made on many trees is that the trunk at the bottom has to be about as thick as a man's thumb before the tree produces fruit for the first time and does not shed it while still small.

24
Temperate Fruit Discussion / Re: "Southern" Pawpaw Source?
« on: April 12, 2020, 04:13:05 PM »
I’ll see if there are any flowers left to check on the colors.  The leaves have the pattern of reticulata. 
I named our farm after Odenwald Germany where my Grandfather was born.

That's interesting that your grandfather is not far from the area where I live here. Have you ever been here? By the way, the beautiful city of Heidelberg is right at the foot of the Odenwald!

Now to the Paw Paw of which you wrote: Yes, that would be nice if you could have a look, in case there are no more flowers, there will surely be fruits sometime......maybe you can post some more pictures, and if it would be possible for you to send me some seeds against reimbursement of expenses, that would be great.

25
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Dwarf coconuts
« on: April 11, 2020, 05:35:46 PM »
Also Parajubaea cocoides looks like a small coconut palm but i smaller and colder temperatures are no problem.
Here some pics: https://palmapalmetto.com/parajubaea-cocoides/100-130-cm

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