Cold Tolerant Durian and Other "Ultra Tropicals"

[murahilin]

Mike T mentioned in a few posts some varieties of durian, rambutan, and other trees that are normally thought to be too cold sensitive for FL, that he says may be able to be grown here. I would like to compile a list of these varieties in this post so anyone who has tried to grow them in FL can comment and it will also give a good reference for possible varieties for us here in FL to look out for. Please help add to the list. Species and cultivars. Thanks

Durian:Long Laplae, Lin Laplae

Langsat:

Rambutan: Rongrien, R134, R9

[FlyingFoxFruits]

Alupag

Mabolo

Kepel

Annonidium mannii (I believe Whitman's book stated this)

Pourteria torta gallifructa from Oscar (so I've heard, it may take some cold without dying)

Euterpe edulis

[fruitlovers]

Alupag

Mabolo

Kepel

Annonidium mannii (I believe Whitman's book stated this)

Pourteria torta gallifructa from Oscar (so I've heard, it may take some cold without dying)

Euterpe edulis

Why do you think Kepel is cold hardy?

[Mike T]

With langsat it was only cultivar utteradit I was talking about not those philipine pretenders like paete.I was generalising about species with fairly wide distributions that extend well out of the ultra tropics in the wild or where cultivated.The thai and chinese method of breeding for more cold tolerance is perhaps not like the way florida breeds low chill temperate fruits.It is the law of the jungle... plant heaps and see what survives let everything else just die.Northern thailand and guangdong province might be places to look.

[Mike T]

Mike T I forgot to mention that work on dozens of durian cultivars in australia showed cold tolerance was as good in the famous red prawn (D175) as any and that there was potential for taking it to cooler places.This was odd because it a penang island variety from Malaysia.

[FlyingFoxFruits]

not really cold hearty, but not as sensitive as you'd think, being that the tree is from Java.

I may be mistaken though

so no not cold hearty, but more than you'd think, given it's ultra tropical

Alupag

Mabolo

Kepel

Annonidium mannii (I believe Whitman's book stated this)

Pourteria torta gallifructa from Oscar (so I've heard, it may take some cold without dying)

Euterpe edulis

Why do you think Kepel is cold hardy?

[FlyingFoxFruits]

established button mangosteens are suprisingly tough.  I've only read about them surviving brief freezes.

[omarudy]

Anyone have anything new to add to the list? Any updates?

[raimeiken]

Alupag

Mabolo

Kepel

Annonidium mannii (I believe Whitman's book stated this)

Pourteria torta gallifructa from Oscar (so I've heard, it may take some cold without dying)

Euterpe edulis

just recently learned about mabolo, interested in growing one here. how low of temps can they handle?

[Delvi83]

As i know none has grown Rambutan and Durian in FL (not in a Greenhouse)....but i think the only way to know if something else can survive is to try....Maybe the good cultivar in a sheltered position could make a dream come true

[Tropicaliste]

I personally enjoy Mabolo ...  it's not everyone's cup of tea though. You may want to try one before you grow it. It takes male and female trees. The fruit is supposedly smelly to some, but I had really nice smelling ones, like floral peaches. The fruit however is not juicy, it looks like a peach or apple, but is dry like a quince or even a hard cheese ... just saying, you should try the fruit, before going to the trouble.

[marklee]

I heave heard of a claim of a guy in a real warm micro-climate in San Diego that has had a langsat in the ground for a while and got it to fruit. I need to get over to his place and document it.

[vipinrl]

I strongly believe that Durian grafted on Wild durian (Durio exarillatus) can handle freezing, at least for a few days.
I have seen Wild durians in areas (around Munnar - the only place in Kerala where temperature goes below freezing) that will be covered in ice for 2 - 4 weeks during winter.
And yes, Durian and Wild durian are graft compatible.

[fruitlovers]

I strongly believe that Durian grafted on Wild durian (Durio exarillatus) can handle freezing, at least for a few days.
I have seen Wild durians in areas (around Munnar - the only place in Kerala where temperature goes below freezing) that will be covered in ice for 2 - 4 weeks during winter.
And yes, Durian and Wild durian are graft compatible.

Such a graft would make the rootstock (wild durian) resistant to freeze. But what about air temperatures? Freezing air temperature to scion wood (durian) would kill it.

[vipinrl]

I strongly believe that Durian grafted on Wild durian (Durio exarillatus) can handle freezing, at least for a few days.
I have seen Wild durians in areas (around Munnar - the only place in Kerala where temperature goes below freezing) that will be covered in ice for 2 - 4 weeks during winter.
And yes, Durian and Wild durian are graft compatible.

Such a graft would make the rootstock (wild durian) resistant to freeze. But what about air temperatures? Freezing air temperature to scion wood (durian) would kill it.

Never thought about this!

[Mike T]

At the risk of being repetitive if someone in south Florida tries D.macrantha, Lin and Long Laplaes and red prawn they might have some success. Maybe not and it would need a spot with suitable soil and that could be difficult as well.

[EvilFruit]

Alupag

Mabolo

Kepel

Annonidium mannii (I believe Whitman's book stated this)

Pourteria torta gallifructa from Oscar (so I've heard, it may take some cold without dying)

Euterpe edulis

just recently learned about mabolo, interested in growing one here. how low of temps can they handle?

I have several seedlings of mabolo and they can handle hot weather as long as they protected from direct sunlight and watered regularly but, they are extremely slow grower.

i also have Spanish limes which seems to do even better in my climate and no protection is needed.They grow very rapidly to almost 9 to 10 feet in less than 3 years.

[Vernmented]

Alupag has fruited in Florida. Grimal had a massive Pedalai. I have heard that Pulasan has better cold tolerance than Rambutan.

[Vernmented]

Has anyone fruited Artocarpus integer (Cempedak) in Florida? I was going to put one in ground and protect it just for fun. It seems doable. I have also seen fruiting breadfruit in homestead.

[raimeiken]

I personally enjoy Mabolo ...  it's not everyone's cup of tea though. You may want to try one before you grow it. It takes male and female trees. The fruit is supposedly smelly to some, but I had really nice smelling ones, like floral peaches. The fruit however is not juicy, it looks like a peach or apple, but is dry like a quince or even a hard cheese ... just saying, you should try the fruit, before going to the trouble.

Don't have access to the fruit unfortunately. Just curious on how cold tolerant it is. I'm in zone 9b, so we get occasional freezing temps.

[Sleepdoc]

Has anyone fruited Artocarpus integer (Cempedak) in Florida? I was going to put one in ground and protect it just for fun. It seems doable. I have also seen fruiting breadfruit in homestead.

I have a chempedak growing in ground. Nowhere near fruiting and very slow growing.  It hates the spring and looks shabby until humidity kicks in during the summer.

I also have a fruiting breadfruit.

[fsanchez2002]

Has anyone in Florida gotten fruit from any species of Baccaurea???

[DurianLover]

Has anyone fruited Artocarpus integer (Cempedak) in Florida? I was going to put one in ground and protect it just for fun. It seems doable. I have also seen fruiting breadfruit in homestead.

I have a chempedak growing in ground. Nowhere near fruiting and very slow growing.  It hates the spring and looks shabby until humidity kicks in during the summer.

I also have a fruiting breadfruit.

Didn't you also fruit jack and chempa hybrid?  Put a cross of of those two on jackfruit rootstock, and you will likely have license for take off in S FL.  I think you should do that with Ben's seedlings. Good quality cross not much different from true chempedak. That would be bending rules quite a bit to achieve almost the same result.

[Tropicaliste]

Mabolo can take many changes when it's full grown. I know of them taking full sun and high heat, and taking night temps into the 40s or so. I don't know that they will take a freeze though. They don't need high humidity, I'd say they are a lot less tropical than rambutan or mangosteen.

[Sleepdoc]

Didn't you also fruit jack and chempa hybrid?  Put a cross of of those two on jackfruit rootstock, and you will likely have license for take off in S FL.  I think you should do that with Ben's seedlings. Good quality cross not much different from true chempedak. That would be bending rules quite a bit to achieve almost the same result.

That's a great idea.  I will try that this summer.  Bens grafted onto Jak, and chemp grafted onto Bens. 

[Jsvand5]

At the risk of being repetitive if someone in south Florida tries D.macrantha, Lin and Long Laplaes and red prawn they might have some success. Maybe not and it would need a spot with suitable soil and that could be difficult as well.

Finding those types in the US seems pretty impossible. Selection for grafted durian is pretty slim. I have a couple that are doing ok. Not great. Seeds that I planted directly in the ground seem to do much better than potted trees that I put in the ground. I'm waiting on those to get a bit bigger so I can graft onto them.

[Jsvand5]

Alupag has fruited in Florida. Grimal had a massive Pedalai. I have heard that Pulasan has better cold tolerance than Rambutan.

I have one pulasan in the ground in the greenhouse. It handled shipping horribly and died back quite a bit but now that it is in the ground and settled in it has been putting out nice healthy growth. Seemed to handle the winter fine but I keep the green house above 50 degrees.

[durianwriter]

Is there any reason people are posting Longlablae and Linlablae as being "cold hearty?" Which study are you referring to?

[fyliu]

I guess it's good to try and find out. My sense is like what Adam says. If it's from Java, cold hardy means it can maybe survive in Thailand.

[Mike T]

Linday that was me due to them being the farthest north growing durians in Thailand, the elevated nature of Laplae village and presumed winter minimums which are a good deal lower than nearby Uteraditt according to local Thais.It makes then candidates for testing.Kradom Thong is grown on the chantarak basalt soils in the north east but this probably only has winter minimums of 6 or 7c.

[fruitlovers]

At the risk of being repetitive if someone in south Florida tries D.macrantha, Lin and Long Laplaes and red prawn they might have some success. Maybe not and it would need a spot with suitable soil and that could be difficult as well.

Did anyone in S. Florida get seeds of the D. macrantha from Mike? How are they doing? I know Adam reported his croaked during a cold spell, but he's in central Florida.

[cbss_daviefl]

I was not one of the lucky few to get a D. macrantha but I have 4 durian seedlings in 1 gal pots from seeds I collected in PR last year and they all survived in my potting shed, which is only protected by shade cloth and has no heating. This winter we had was pretty mild and no test of South Florida's worst.

[Vernmented]

Didn't you also fruit jack and chempa hybrid?  Put a cross of of those two on jackfruit rootstock, and you will likely have license for take off in S FL.  I think you should do that with Ben's seedlings. Good quality cross not much different from true chempedak. That would be bending rules quite a bit to achieve almost the same result.

That's a great idea.  I will try that this summer.  Bens grafted onto Jak, and chemp grafted onto Bens.

Is Bens a better chemp/jack cross that is better than Cheena?

[Vernmented]

Just found it in the buy/sell.

[durianwriter]

Linday that was me due to them being the farthest north growing durians in Thailand, the elevated nature of Laplae village and presumed winter minimums which are a good deal lower than nearby Uteraditt according to local Thais.It makes then candidates for testing.Kradom Thong is grown on the chantarak basalt soils in the north east but this probably only has winter minimums of 6 or 7c.

They are the furthest north, but the elevation of Laplae district is only a little over 200 feet, so it's not very high. The average low temperature is 64 F (18), which compares to Chanthaburi's 70 F (21.5). Do you think this is a big enough temp difference to make them "cold hardy?"

If anything is interesting, my impression is that Uttaradit has a longer dry period than other durian growing areas. Anybody know anything about it?

It is a gorgeous area, that's for sure. Super steep mountains vs. flatlands we find in Chanthaburi/Rayong growing areas.

[Mike T]

http://www.thaiwaysmagazine.com/thai_article/2805_laplae/laplae.html
http://www.thestartv.com/episode/uttaradits-lab-lae-mountains-offer-cheap-fruits-and-a-unique-experience-for-local-tourists/?program=asean-now-news&season=oct-2015-food
Lindsay while Utteraditt may have a modest 16c average minimum in January I was thinking more of Edible Mountain where the durians are grown near Laplae. It is higher and cooler and there are cooler fluctuations. A local told me winter temps around Edible Mountain are the coolest for durian orchard in Thailand. I could only guess at the lowest minimums.

[Mike T]

I am told also that temperatures can get quite low im Sisaket province in Isaan where durians are grown. The January mean  minimum again is a modest 16c but they can drop quite low and the durian area of Kantharalak is cooler than most parts.

[Delvi83]

I strongly believe that Durian grafted on Wild durian (Durio exarillatus) can handle freezing, at least for a few days.
I have seen Wild durians in areas (around Munnar - the only place in Kerala where temperature goes below freezing) that will be covered in ice for 2 - 4 weeks during winter.
And yes, Durian and Wild durian are graft compatible.

Such a graft would make the rootstock (wild durian) resistant to freeze. But what about air temperatures? Freezing air temperature to scion wood (durian) would kill it.

Anyway, as it happens with P. trifogliata for many Citrus, another rootstock could make the plant more cold resistant.....i'm not saying it will survive frost, but may be could withstand the subtropical "winter" of Souht Florida.

[fruitlovers]

I strongly believe that Durian grafted on Wild durian (Durio exarillatus) can handle freezing, at least for a few days.
I have seen Wild durians in areas (around Munnar - the only place in Kerala where temperature goes below freezing) that will be covered in ice for 2 - 4 weeks during winter.
And yes, Durian and Wild durian are graft compatible.

Such a graft would make the rootstock (wild durian) resistant to freeze. But what about air temperatures? Freezing air temperature to scion wood (durian) would kill it.

Anyway, as it happens with P. trifogliata for many Citrus, another rootstock could make the plant more cold resistant.....i'm not saying it will survive frost, but may be could withstand the subtropical "winter" of Souht Florida.

Unfortunately most parts of south Florida periodically gets arctic blasts. That is not really a sub tropical winter, as sub tropical areas (high elevation tropics) never receive freezing temperatures. I think you are right though that a cold hardy rootstock would be helpful for resistance against termperatures above freezing.

[Delvi83]

As I know Durian dies also with 45°F or even higher temperature if it's for a longer period.
For the few parts of Florida that always remain above 32°F another rootstock could make the difference....experiments are the only way to know...

[fruitlovers]

As I know Durian dies also with 45°F or even higher temperature if it's for a longer period.
For the few parts of Florida that always remain above 32°F another rootstock could make the difference....experiments are the only way to know...

Probably best would be wild durian rootstock and a somewhat cold hardy durian scion wood, like Marcrantha or Red Prawn. But the difficulty is sourcing these materials...especially in Florida. Other problems are that durian is not easy to graft and that scion wood lasts a very short time. So easier said than done. But certainly not impossible.