Collecting Eugenias,have I gone too far?

[Mike T]

I suppose for pots you are better off with the smallest Eugenias but I will be planting a selection in my yard and have chased the smallest types.Maybe I have been acquiring Eugenia seeds of smaller species faster than my knowledge on the species has accrued and I have lots of small seedlings now that I need to plant out. The best for fruit quality seems to be controversial. I have tried to figure it out from Lorenzi's book and by searching this forum. While I give away most seedling I have I am a bit overloaded with seedlings from all types of fruit trees at the moment but my hobby is not yet out of hand.I have 100's of seedlings in pots.

 I just planted some small Eugenias in a garden bed (Eugenia matossi, E.pitanga. E.observa, E.lutescens and E.neonitida).The next size class up, E.cereja and E.pyriformis x lutescens will be planted in a spot with a bit more space.

I have some larger species E.candolleana, E.myrcianthes, E.florida, E.pyriformis and E.dysenterica and not enough room for all.With 2 small candolleanas already planted out I am scratching my head about which of these is best. I have several different types of pyriformis and one is supposed to be sweet. With grumichama and E.uniflora already in the yard I need to be selective. I have odd specimens of a further 6 or 7 species that are not in the running.

If I plant all the species that 'must' go in the yard including non-Eugenias I will be in gridlock pretty fast with a closed canopy.



Here is the most disorganised pocket of my seedling collection in a mini greenhouse and just a small proportion of what I have. My task now is to select the best Eugenias and give the rest away to folks who can establish the new ones to this area.

[fruitlovers]

Luc is the resident eugenia expert, but here are my 2 cents:
Which ones are the best tasting ofcourse is going to be a personal decision, but i say why grow surinam when everyone else already has it, and you are limited in space? I'm guessing you can probably get tons of surinams in your area? I would yank that and plant the must have rareties: the sweet pyriformis, the candolleanas (which you already did), and the neonitida. This one can easily be kept and fruited in a pot, so no need to put into the ground. Keep it as a nice patio accent plant. The same is true with itaguahensis, small and can be kept potted. But that's not on your list? Florida species is put down in Lorenzi book, but Miguel said in a post it's excellent. If you got seeds from Miguel i would also plant that one. Obviously quality may be dependent on mother tree that seeds came from with all of these.

[Mike T]

Oscar thanks for the advice. There are more Eugenias I failed to mention. I have planted 2 E.itaguanhiensis, pitombas, some cherries and some of Rio grande but held off planting E.leitonii and E.copacabanensis. Some will need to go in big pots. I have kinda run out of Eugenias to chase.

[fruitlovers]

Oscar thanks for the advice. There are more Eugenias I failed to mention. I have planted 2 E.itaguanhiensis, pitombas, some cherries and some of Rio grande but held off planting E.leitonii and E.copacabanensis. Some will need to go in big pots. I have kinda run out of Eugenias to chase.

I got to try copacabanensis in Brazil off 2 different trees. The first was really was low quality, and the second a bit better, but still mediocre.

[luc]

One can never have enough Eugenias Mike . I didn't see the uvahla ( probably the E.stipitata ssp sororia ) on your list and the E. victoriana and klotszchiana ??

[emegar]

I got E. pyriformis seeds from Helton that are coming up in my greenhouse.  Is there any way, apart from waiting for fruit, to know whether he sent me a sweet variety?

[Mike T]

Luc I gave E.victoriana and E.stipatata seedlings away when more glamorous species were obtained. These 2 are easy enough to get locally and a bit sour for me. E. klotzschiana has given me the slip but if it is very sour I might hold off.E.uniflora common here but the 2 I planted are black and orange fruited types of supposedly good quality.
My climate is seasonal like wet cerrado and I think I can grow cerrado species.

[FlyingFoxFruits]

ya...ur slacking dude...

I see a few species omitted from your short list.... I suppose u aren't ready to have them yet.

Keep collecting!

One can never have enough Eugenias Mike . I didn't see the uvahla ( probably the E.stipitata ssp sororia ) on your list and the E. victoriana and klotszchiana ??

[Mike T]

Saff. I am an open book with Eugenias, a couple just slipped my mind as I just whipped out a topic without too much deep thought. I am not good on Eugenias and had none 2 years ago. Through generous forum folk and some south American sources (not advertised nurseries) I suddenly have quite a few. Fruit quality and sweetness isn't easy to find out about as there are a few contradictory accounts.
There are still 3 or 4 that I should be chasing from Brazil.

emegar you can only go back to the source about your pyriformis.I have a few varieties and I know 2 are good out of hand and the cross with lutescens is good also.   

[FlyingFoxFruits]

Saff. I am an open book with Eugenias, a couple just slipped my mind as I just whipped out a topic without too much deep thought. I am not good on Eugenias and had none 2 years ago. Through generous forum folk and some south American sources (not advertised nurseries) I suddenly have quite a few. Fruit quality and sweetness isn't easy to find out about as there are a few contradictory accounts.
There are still 3 or 4 that I should be chasing from Brazil.

emegar you can only go back to the source about your pyriformis.I have a few varieties and I know 2 are good out of hand and the cross with lutescens is good also.

Haha!

You're a good sport...with a great Eugenia collection!

[Tomas]

Hi Mike,

If I were you I would keep the Eugenias based on a) rarity and/or  b) eating quality. And discard those that are not on top of either of those criteria. I know that both rarity and eating quality are vague definitions. And what's rare now may not be rare in a few years. And some people may say Eugenia X tastes great whereas if you ask someone else about Eugenia X you get a very different answer.

Tomas

[Mike T]

Tomas I got the P x L from a few sources and luckily the seedlings look the same. I have 3 different opinions on fruit quality from those sources that aren't easy to resolve. Everything is rare here except the 4 or 5 ones I pointed out as being here.

[kh0110]

Mike, after what you said about the Candolleanas name a while back , I'm glad you decided to put them in the ground.

[BMc]

I would ditch the myrcianthes. It's pretty horrible. I'm pulling mine out soon as the fruit is not good enough. Nice looking plant, but we aren't in it for ornamental ends. I'm also pulling up my pitomba as there are just too many better fruits. I'd only plant pyriformis that have a good rep, as the poorer quality ones are already around, but a good quality one will be welcomed by many growers around the state. Florida seems a bit on the small side to be considered substantial enough for a highly coveted spot in your yard.

[Mike T]

Thanks BMc now we're getting somewhere. I see people expressing being disappointed about Eugenias more that most groups and people having differing opinions. It is easy to fit the small ones in but E.dysenterica, E.pyriformis and even E.cereja take a bit of space.

[FlyingFoxFruits]

now that u have all these species...its all about finding the best varieties of those species.  They all seem to have an abundance of variations...some of which are head and shoulders above the rest.

[fruitlovers]

now that u have all these species...its all about finding the best varieties of those species.  They all seem to have an abundance of variations...some of which are head and shoulders above the rest.

Yes, that's absolutely right. I was surprised how much the same species can vary from tree to tree. But i guess that's true with most fruits. I think this variation is one of the big reasons for differing opinions as to their quality, apart ofcourse also from subjective tastes and preferences.

[Miguel.pt]

Hey Mike... I totally understand you as we seem to suffer from the same problem...

but I intend to keep collecting Eugenias sp. until there are no more to collect... and the good thing in this family is that there's always some new family member coming to light in Brasil or somewhere... it seems a never ending collection!

Just my two cents on this discussion:
Even the bigger ones like E. florida and E. myrciantes are able to fruit in pots in just 3 to 5 years, so why don't you wait to try the fruits before deciding what to plant in the ground?... this is in fact how I decide the species that deserve a permanent spot in my GH... I  tend to see my GH as a 5 stars resort for plants ... but there are no free lunches anywhere and only those guests that pay the land lord are authorized to stay longer, because the land lord needs to eat also ... but I'm a very patient and comprehensive land lord ... I even accept a lot of different currencies for payment (fruits, flowers, leaves, roots, seeds, etc)... as long as they pay, they are allowed to stay

The smaller ones are even faster fruiting so it's even easier to choose the best ones during the pot stage... on this class I recommend you skip Eugenia anomala because it tastes like garlic...

But I don't see the Eugenia calycina on your list... big fail!... this one is a permanent resident on my 5 stars hotel!

I'm still waiting to decide if E. speciosa and E. blasthanta deserve a permanent spot or not... sooner or latter I will report on these ones!... haven't decided yet on E. negrense too because birds did not let me try until now!

Keep collecting and good luck!

[frukt]

Hi Miguel PT. Is it possible to visit your selection of eugenias in the future. Im a busy man but visit gardens is a favourite hobby

[Luisport]

Hi Miguel PT. Is it possible to visit your selection of eugenias in the future. Im a busy man but visit gardens is a favourite hobby

You are welcome here in Fátima too! 

[frukt]

Luisport: I already planned that  And of course, whenever you are in algarve.....

I will se when only, i have no car and planning is to hard sometimes but in a near future i should go and do something. I heard of a great place in portugal; a place where they planted trees from the new world and thet should have 500 year old redwood growing there. Would be nice to combine.

So: Greatness can be seen for a long time, keep collecting!

[Luisport]

Luisport: I already planned that  And of course, whenever you are in algarve.....

I will se when only, i have no car and planning is to hard sometimes but in a near future i should go and do something. I heard of a great place in portugal; a place where they planted trees from the new world and thet should have 500 year old redwood growing there. Would be nice to combine.

So: Greatness can be seen for a long time, keep collecting!

Well ok i will wait... to Algarve with this austherity its not easy... 

[Miguel.pt]

Hey Frukt
Sorry for my late reply but I'm travelling again...
My problem is exactly this one (I do travel a lot professionaly) but in case you came to the north someday please let me know in advance to see if I'm at home... but please refrain your expectations because there is not much to see but a total mess of pots inside my GH.

Take care and enjoy Algarve.

[Mike T]

Ok I think I'm done with planting Eugenias now. Multiples of neonitida, pyriformis x lutescens, cherry of rio, observa,E.itaguanhiensis lutescens, and pyriformis were planted in with dysenterica, cereja,matosii, E.pitanga, black uniflora and pitomba being support acts where single ones were planted. Those that missed out are E.victoriana, copacabensis, leitoni, florida, stipitata and myrcianthes which will never be part of the back yard team. I have some spares of most good ones in case of casualties or being struck by the cerrado curse and have need for reinforcements.

Most Eugenia enthusiasts will no doubt be saying it is a weak collection without E.calycina but I'll have to live without it and I should pull through ok. It must be the hardest of all to acquire.

Thanks for all the helpful advice from everyone. I would have caught with my trousers down without the advice.

[Coconut]

I have discover with most small Eugenias, i get a great fruit production than in ground were I get so much leaves & twig to constantly have HOA maintenance crew trimming them. If you scarce for real estates Adam's approach have made my backyard more productive, & i used airpot that allow plants to get large & fast to fruit.