Is planting a “Keitt” Mango tree a thing of the past in Florida?

[Honest Abe]

I am a big fan of a backyard-grown south Florida “keitt”
I have a 6 foot tree in my yard collection, despite all the warnings about disease issues. I enjoy the sweet, juicy, coconut flavor, large size and it’s potential for consistency very late season. My question is aimed at all the mango pros/experts and veteran growers on here ( I enjoy all of your info and advice).

Is “Keitt” even worth planting any more in south Florida? Is the impending MBBS doom probability so great of a threat to the tree and my other trees?  that a tree in the yard is not worth the space?

I figured I better ask everyone now before rainy season dooms my young, Precious 7-tree Miami grove.

THANK YOU

-Capt. Abie Raymond

[bsbullie]

Keitt was a very popular commercial variety (large fruit size, productive and late season).  As it is now prone to MBBS and a rot disease, it has gone by the wayside in its popularity.  I do not detect any coconut flavor and I am not a fan of the large sized, main crop however the very late, smaller sized "end crop" fruit are pretty good.

I would recommend planting Honey Kiss in its place as a similar, and better IMO, flavored late season fruit.

[Honest Abe]

Thanks Rob I’ll try to get me hands on a “honey kiss” this year for taste test.

[TonyinCC]

Honey Kiss is also a Keitt seedling but fruit is smaller. It is supposed to hold very late like Keitt. I hope to try it and get a tree this year.
 If you are a big fan of large fruit, there is a variety that is a Keitt seedling that is similar to its parent in most ways other than color. It is one of the less popular Zill mangos. The Flavor bomb supermodel mangos get all the attention and nobody asks Nancy to dance because she is awkward and plus sized...
Nancy is a Keitt seedling that has huge fruit, Heavy crops,and similar if slightly better flavor. The only fruit I have seen that look as attractive are Irwin. Beautiful purplish bloom on the fruit. She also unfortunately has the same awkward Keitt growth habit.
 At least in my location, the fruit are absolutely spotless. It is late but does not hold quite as late as Keitt. Mid July to mid August so far. The fruit might hold a little longer but I harvested the rest  about the middle of August when I opened one to eat and found it had a sprouting seed and an off flavor at that point. 2 out of the last 10 were sprouting at that time, the rest were pretty good. I suspect some of the negative reviews were due to the fruit being picked too early since the fruit is very reddish purple months before it is ready.  I planted Keitt 3 times and none survived more than 2 years in my yard. This is about the closest replacement I have found. For all intents and purposes it is a prettier, more disease resistant Keitt.  I have tasted Late season Keitts that have a hint of coconut but I have not noticed it in Nancy. Maybe if I left them on the tree longer?

[Honest Abe]

Tony, thanks for the AWESOME info! I will take a trip to Zill and get my hands on a “Nancy” for a taste test! Big girls need Lovin’ too! My Keitt already has lots of issues on foliage but hoping for the best, expecting the worst. I’ve never even heard of “Nancy” and now I’m stoked to try one. Speaking of large mangoes  I tried a “Karen Michelle” In late May from Zill that was outstanding: fiberless and large, Tasted like a sweet pina colada with the cherry smushed up in the drink, One of my favorites ever. Thanks Tony! Enjoy the rest of Mango season!

[bsbullie]

Nancy is not in the same class.  Bigger is not always better.  There are a number of Keitt seedlings but Honey Kiss is by far the best when comparing to its parent's classic flavor group.

Delores is also a Keitt seedling but quality is average, and as with Nancy, inferior to Honey Kiss.

Cotton Candy is another Keitt seedling that you could consider.  Its flavor,  when picked properly, is amazing and excels past Honey Kiss but the jury is still out on production.   Honey Kiss is a workhorse year in and year out.

M4 is also a Keitt seedling but its not in the classic flavor group like the above varieties.   Its probably tops in the coconut group but has shown some signs of the bad traits of Keitt.  I would not count it out however if wanting the coconut flavor.

Please note, this post is based on experience tasting all of the above over the years, not from what I have read or heard about.

[TonyinCC]

Nancy is still about a week to 10 days from picking time here then another few days to ripen off the tree. Timing might be a little different on Atlantic side.
If they are picked too early they are not good.
 Rob is right, there are better Keitt seedlings, but I think Nancy has the largest fruit and closest similarity to Keitt aside from the color which is a bonus. Some people are willing to plant a more disease resistant tree even if the fruit is not as good as some better tasting alternatives. The fruit are so pretty it is almost worth planting for that reason.
 Rob, I plan on planting Honey Kiss too.  You are very helpful to people on the forum, but you have tasted so many mangos you tend to dismiss average varieties as if they are not worthy of being planted. Average fruit that is on a productive disease resistant tree wins points for being considered.  Average home grown and properly picked and ripened fruit is still much better than most store bought. Not every home grower is willing or able to spray their trees.
 I am enjoying first crop of Cotton Candy, 13 fruit a little under a pound and uniform size on a tree about 9 feet tall. Tree is very healthy so far. I would say fairly low production for the size of the tree.  They are really nice but ripening much earlier than I expected, they will be done in a week this year. One fruit out of 13 cracked and rotted.

[StPeteMango]

I have a Honey Kiss I acquired from Excalibur in 2015. It gave good fruit last year, and looks to be doing so again this year.
Also, it depends on what you mean by "late" season. It's early July, and the squirrels are already after the fruit. What they leave behind is already yellowing inside. So "late" in my yard is likely by the end of July, early August. Pickering got me off to a very good start, Fairchild and Angie are going strong right now, and Providence and Honey Kiss should be next.
Malika has been a disappointment this year, the NDM a dud as usual, the Cogshall mediocre.
Win some, lose some.

[bsbullie]

Squirrels don't necessarily eat fruit just because they're ripe. Once they know it is a food source they will eat it whether it's ripe or underripe. The squirrels are ravaging the magoes in my yard that are far from being ripe. I would not just go buy a fruit eaten by a squirrel that looks to have color to its flesh as it sits on the ground. You should pick the fruit based on its actual color snd ripeness as it hangs on the tree.

Honey Kiss should not be picked till they have a color change.  If not, they can succumb to internal rot at the stem.  They will also not have that honey flavor component they are known for.

[PBm4nG0]

I have a well established Keitt and it has MBBS. It seems to be getting worse every year now started about 3 or 4 years ago. It’s a real shame I love the tree if people wouldn’t steal the fruit or birds pecking at the stragglers hanging I can have mangoes going into October, usually have a handful in September before I just pull the rest down before the blue jays and squirrels get them.
What’s amazing about this tree is productivity. For a scraggly tree it produces like crazy every year. Even after the theft, wildlife, storms, MBBS I stillhave plenty to eat, give to friends and freeze for smoothies later. They do freeze very well better than my Cogshall.
Not to mention it’s a good pickling mango. Had Trinidadian friends that liked to make mango achar from them.
But the MBBS is not going away so I got a Honey KISS for another late tree. Found it at Nuturf. Think it might be a Zill tree because it has the typical yellow tag maybe I’m wrong. Also just planted an M4 from Excalibur for another late tree. Thought about Cotton Candy but never tried it.
Did an experiment and grafted my Keitt on to a Neelam rootstock, thinking maybe it will be a dwarfish Keitt or the MBBS won’t be as bad, not sure. The tree has been in the ground for about 6 months now and looks pretty healthy so far.
Also grafted a ZINC scion to a little shoot, didn’t think it would take but it did.
 Really wanted a Venus as I like the ZINC trees for a later variety but other people are experiencing MBBS with these trees so I’m reading.
 For now I’ll just put up with the Keitts issues, if it gets really bad might just top work it.

Bruce

[Epicatt2]

So being mostly unfamilair with mangoes, is there a list of cultivars which are resistant or immune to MBBS?

I only have two cultivars so far and they are recently potted in 7 gal pots: 'Ice Cream' and 'Irwin'.  I chose them because I wanted cultivars which were dwarf.  Since I'm in 9b it seemed prudent to have mangoes that could be kept small enough to be able to move them into a gr'house if we have a severe cold snap here.

Fingers X-ed!
==

[Honest Abe]

I have a well established Keitt and it has MBBS. It seems to be getting worse every year now started about 3 or 4 years ago. It’s a real shame I love the tree if people wouldn’t steal the fruit or birds pecking at the stragglers hanging I can have mangoes going into October, usually have a handful in September before I just pull the rest down before the blue jays and squirrels get them.
What’s amazing about this tree is productivity. For a scraggly tree it produces like crazy every year. Even after the theft, wildlife, storms, MBBS I stillhave plenty to eat, give to friends and freeze for smoothies later. They do freeze very well better than my Cogshall.
Not to mention it’s a good pickling mango. Had Trinidadian friends that liked to make mango achar from them.
But the MBBS is not going away so I got a Honey KISS for another late tree. Found it at Nuturf. Think it might be a Zill tree because it has the typical yellow tag maybe I’m wrong. Also just planted an M4 from Excalibur for another late tree. Thought about Cotton Candy but never tried it.
Did an experiment and grafted my Keitt on to a Neelam rootstock, thinking maybe it will be a dwarfish Keitt or the MBBS won’t be as bad, not sure. The tree has been in the ground for about 6 months now and looks pretty healthy so far.
Also grafted a ZINC scion to a little shoot, didn’t think it would take but it did.
 Really wanted a Venus as I like the ZINC trees for a later variety but other people are experiencing MBBS with these trees so I’m reading.
 For now I’ll just put up with the Keitts issues, if it gets really bad might just top work it.

Bruce

Thanks Bruce this was very helpful. Have you tried top working a keitt yet ? Could I leave half the tree keitt and half something else or is that certain MBBS disaster? Just curious if you or anyone has experimented grafting fresh uninflected scions to an infested keitt tree? Would be interesting to see results

[bsbullie]

If the Keitt has MBBS, leaving part of the tree will lead to better chance of new variety to be affected.

[PBm4nG0]

Honest Abe, yes I grafted a ZINC scion to a small shoot as an experiment and it took.
I do know Themangoplace in Delray Chris has top worked quite a few older varieties Keitt Haden etc that has MBBS with success. She has some good videos on YouTube. As bsbullie said, the infected fruits will infect good fruits and I read somewhere even healthy trees nearby.
I try to remove any fruits when I see black crevices starting so it doesn’t infect other fruits or my nearby Glen tree. I think that’s Har’s strategy especially for the LZ, removing bad fruit early before it infects others.
 You can always cut the Keitt back to the main trunk or 2 to 3 trunks. Wait for the small shoots to come up and graft on to them.  Cotton Candy, Honey KISS whatever variety you like. That big trunk and established root system have a lot of energy in them that once a scion takes you will get fruit fairly fast.
I might graft more on my Keitt if I keep losing more fruit.

Bruce

[JulianoGS]

M4 is also a Keitt seedling but its not in the classic flavor group like the above varieties.   Its probably tops in the coconut group but has shown some signs of the bad traits of Keitt.  I would not count it out however if wanting the coconut flavor.

What are the bad traits that M4 has shown?

[bsbullie]

M4 is also a Keitt seedling but its not in the classic flavor group like the above varieties.   Its probably tops in the coconut group but has shown some signs of the bad traits of Keitt.  I would not count it out however if wanting the coconut flavor.

What are the bad traits that M4 has shown?

MBBS in some locations (probably with greater exposure) and dirty appearance in western sections but this is normal with many varieties grown out west.

[cbss_daviefl]

I am in western broward and here some of the M4 fruit will have a minor shallow skin split. These splits do not go into the flesh.  Bugs enter the split and spoil the fruit. This happens on maybe 10 - 20% of the fruit. If caught early, the fruit can be picked before bugs get in and, if it is mature enough, it will ripen with only minor spoilage at the split.

M4 is also a Keitt seedling but its not in the classic flavor group like the above varieties.   Its probably tops in the coconut group but has shown some signs of the bad traits of Keitt.  I would not count it out however if wanting the coconut flavor.

What are the bad traits that M4 has shown?

[bsbullie]

I am in western broward and here some of the M4 fruit will have a minor shallow skin split. These splits do not go into the flesh.  Bugs enter the split and spoil the fruit. This happens on maybe 10 - 20% of the fruit. If caught early, the fruit can be picked before bugs get in and, if it is mature enough, it will ripen with only minor spoilage at the split.

M4 is also a Keitt seedling but its not in the classic flavor group like the above varieties.   Its probably tops in the coconut group but has shown some signs of the bad traits of Keitt.  I would not count it out however if wanting the coconut flavor.

What are the bad traits that M4 has shown?

Is your tree on one of your "islands" or sitting at ground level and more directly affected by the rains?

[cbss_daviefl]

My M4 is on high ground, near my house. I do run irrigation in this area.  The tree is 8 ft tall and 8 ft wide.

Is your tree on one of your "islands" or sitting at ground level and more directly affected by the rains?

[SoFloGringo]

I recently bought two Keitt mangos in the redlands, miami. I was not a big fan. They had lots of fiber. I have the glen and fairchild varieties which are fiberless. I personally would not plant a keitt tree.

[PBm4nG0]

How's the production of Fairchild, it’s a good tasting little mango.

Bruce

[bsbullie]

How's the production of Fairchild, it’s a good tasting little mango.

Bruce

Fairchild is a good producer.  Some complain about the flesh ratio but I feel its flavor quality makes up for that.

[PBm4nG0]

Thanks bsbullie for the reply. Going to start another thread about Saigon mangoes don’t want to hijack this thread.

Bruce

[Honest Abe]

Thanks y’all, I’m gathering that the old Keitt has just been replaced by too many better options I suppose. I thought it’s demise of recommendation was due to MBBS.

[nullzero]

I have a mature keitt and it producing a massive crop of +1lb mangos.

Clean crop with no copper or fungicide. I had to cut back nearby trees to increase airflow though.