Grafts super slow to push. Cut off the nurse branches?

[Mark in Texas]

I did veneer grafts and one T-bud on a Waldin rootstock, the Waldin being super vigorous before cutting it back.  In spite of cutting thru the nurse branches and breaking them so that the grafts are above them, they are still slow to push. The T-bud was done 10 weeks ago, veneer grafts (some have failed) were done 8 weeks ago.  Should I cut off one or more of the nurse branches to kill the auxins still active in the nurse branches or just be more patient?  Also, one of the Holiday grafts is showing black on the bark and the bud is very slow to push hardly showing any growth in a week.  The Waldin still wants to take over.  I have nipped off new buds pushing from the crotch of the leaf petioles for months.

How important are the nurse branches?  IOW, like a decidous tree breaking out of dormancy, are there plant foods, carbos, stored in an avocado in the root system and trunk?

Mark

[Patrick]

Your scions are awful small for the stock.  Also, I find that upright growth is easier to graft onto, horizontal branches tend not to "accept" grafts as well.

[Mark in Texas]

Your scions are awful small for the stock.  Also, I find that upright growth is easier to graft onto, horizontal branches tend not to "accept" grafts as well.

Got the budwood from UCR.  That's all I had to work with, beggars can't be choosers.  Best performing is a Gwen T-bud from one of my Gwen trees.  I'm beginning to think that of all the ways to have 100% cambium contact, it's with T-bud.  It's just so easy to get a match since the bud slice is pliable and will conform to most any rootstock diameter and then you can wrap it on the sides by cinching up the bark that has slipped. 

If you look the vertical scion is the one that's stunted and turning black. The one on the horizontal branch is in better condition....go figure.

Any advice on what to do with the nurse branches?

[ScottR]

Mark, I feel your pain, I've had many grafts set and not take after long wait, hope yours pull thru. I would cut back branches to maybe 4-6 leaves and see what happens. The more you cut back root stock the more it wants to push new growth and your at next to final stage on that rootstock. Next case would be cut off and let regrow for next grafting phase. Best of luck

[jcaldeira]

After 10 weeks, I would cut off everything above the graft, so the plant 'thinks' the graft has the apical/terminal bud.  The graft wounds should have healed enough in 10 weeks.  My thinking is that there are too many choices of where the plant should grow and the graft needs to be made the most appealing place to grow.

[Patrick]

I would most definitely cut back the nurse braches when they are that much larger than the scions.  Its best to prepare yourself when requesting scions with different sized stock to work with.  I get scions from the USDA of all sizes, I really kick myself when they send ones I don't have the right caliber stock to graft to.  You can plant an avocado seed and have a viable rootstock within just a couple weeks.  When they are very young they are nearly 100% cadmium material (reddish sprout).  A simple cleft onto a pencil sized newly sprouted seed will be a success almost always!

[Mark in Texas]

Scott, your advice is well taken.  I just cut off the entire branch above the 2 grafts that look the best. I also did 2 T-buds on Edranol April 30.  I'll give them 2 full weeks and unwrap.  Not to bite the hand that feeds you but some of the wood coming from UCR is in pretty bad shape.  There's a lot of black on it which suggests fungi soot from a scale problem.

After 10 weeks, I would cut off everything above the graft, so the plant 'thinks' the graft has the apical/terminal bud.  The graft wounds should have healed enough in 10 weeks.  My thinking is that there are too many choices of where the plant should grow and the graft needs to be made the most appealing place to grow.

Botanically that makes perfect sense in falls in line with my way of thinking.   Then I turn around and see folks warning to retain original stock as nurse stock or the rootstock will die due to a lack of carbos being manufactured by the leaves.

[Mark in Texas]

I would most definitely cut back the nurse braches when they are that much larger than the scions.  Its best to prepare yourself when requesting scions with different sized stock to work with.  I get scions from the USDA of all sizes, I really kick myself when they send ones I don't have the right caliber stock to graft to.  You can plant an avocado seed and have a viable rootstock within just a couple weeks.  When they are very young they are nearly 100% cadmium material (reddish sprout).  A simple cleft onto a pencil sized newly sprouted seed will be a success almost always!

Yep, and this is a testament to that. I had excellent takes cleft and veneer grafting to 5 month old Florida pits about 3 years ago. For example this is my Reed after grafting 2012 which shows about 4" of cambium contact and identical girth on the rootstock and scion.  It is now 10' tall, broad, flowering/fruiting and that's after getting at least 3 haircuts.  The trunk has a 4" girth and the graft union can not be identified.



Those trees are now producing good fruit. I lost count on a small Sharwil of 30+ marble size or bigger fruit a few minutes ago. But this is different, I'm top working a Waldin that used to be a Brogdon before cutting it down below the graft. I had to work with what it pushed as a result of the butchering.  Look how vigorous and healthy this was AFTER cutting off the Brogdon.  It never skipped a beat even thru a cold winter with a lot of 34F night temps...never shut down.



Does USDA have good clean wood such as Holiday?  I worked with Julie Frink and Dr. Arpaia on this wood, have for 3 years or so.

Thanks

[CTMIAMI]

Mark when that happens to me is usually with high temperatures. In early April we had a couple of weeks that looked like August weather and I lost a few grafts that did not push, stalled and die.

[Mark in Texas]

Mark when that happens to me is usually with high temperatures. In early April we had a couple of weeks that looked like August weather and I lost a few grafts that did not push, stalled and die.

We've had a cold spring Carlos. I just turned on the A/C yesterday that's only to dry out the air.  It's 79F right now.

Just watched your Part 2 video on Holiday, again. Incredible.  I really want a Holiday now!  You're getting a lot of fruit off that tree.

[CTMIAMI]

May be you leave too many leaves on the tree. I usually remove 70% to stress the tree and get it in a mood

[ScottR]

Mark, I was told many years ago now that some Avocados just naturally have that smoke or gray modeling on there wood! My Julie Frink! I don't worry about it but it's easy to see sooty mold on leaves.
I like Carlos, mention of 'getting in the mood'! That usually works

[Mark in Texas]

I removed 2 of the branches yesterday and cut back the remaining branches to about 7 leaves each.  I doubt if they're producing much for the tree because of their age and the poor shape they're in.

The black or grey mottling looks just like soot.  The Holiday doesn't have any, the Edranol looks awful.