Author Topic: Grimal is not Plinia spiritosantensis, most likely "Peluda-de-alagoas"  (Read 28716 times)

FlyingFoxFruits

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Huertas..the dark color of Peluda de alagoas is one of the main differences...it's also got much less prominent venation on the top side of the leaf.

it's also a much stiffer leaf.
 


Friends, here I have a picture where you can compare the leaves of both species. The real M. spirito santenssis is the second leaf (left to right). The peluda de  Alagoas (Myrciaria sp) is the fourth leaf.
The other leaves are Peluda do Jequitinhonha (Myrciaria sp), the Peluda do  mucuri (Myrciaria sp) and variegated Myrciaria cauliflora

Very thanks Paulo, welcome.

The leaf of peluda de alagoas is too dark in the photo, I cant see the differences, can you tell us?
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Mike T

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Saff I already know Paulo is a bit of a guru.

pauloc

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ASaffron, I'm sorry but I do not have photos of the fruits now ... all these plants are still small (1 meter for smaller) and  not produce fruit now. Maybe I can get some fruits at the end of the year, produced from other distant trees here. If I get I will send you some seeds. Besides these, there are other 4 unidentified species of jabs, growing here.

Mike, thanks for the compliments. I just planting jabs a couple of years, and during this period I dedicated myself to achieve the greatest possible number of types and also much knowledge about jabs

Huertas, the differences cited by Asaffron are perfect, and this week I will post another picture, with two varieties, one next to each other for a better view

FlyingFoxFruits

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Great Pauloc!!

I'm excited to have you here, participating in our discussion!!

have you started to graft the myrciarias yet?

Once you start grafting your collection will expand exponentially!!  (allowing you to replicate trees that are still years away from producing seeds)

ASaffron, I'm sorry but I do not have photos of the fruits now ... all these plants are still small (1 meter for smaller) and  not produce fruit now. Maybe I can get some fruits at the end of the year, produced from other distant trees here. If I get I will send you some seeds. Besides these, there are other 4 unidentified species of jabs, growing here.

Mike, thanks for the compliments. I just planting jabs a couple of years, and during this period I dedicated myself to achieve the greatest possible number of types and also much knowledge about jabs

Huertas, the differences cited by Asaffron are perfect, and this week I will post another picture, with two varieties, one next to each other for a better view
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kgknight

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Paulo I think it's great you are growing so many jabo species and glad to have you on the forum! There's a bunch of us here that love collecting the species.

Mike T

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Between Paulo and Saff as well as Oscar the forum has genuine jaboticaba firepower.Grimal is comon here due to the founder effect.There has been only one other choice (sabara) for years and the common yellow is poor quality so Grimals are in yards everywhere and in most nurseries as large leaf jaboticaba.

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Here is a new picture showing the two species next to each other. Peluda de  Alagoas  the left, and right the real Myrciaria spirito santenssis


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Paulo,
The leaves you showed of the  Peluda de  Alagoas, really look like the Grimals Adam and I have, in my opinion. I am really interested in the variety Spirito santensis, what do you know about it?

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thanks for pics Paulo...

you are the Myrciaria majesty.
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pauloc

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Kgknight, this species grows in a small area of eastern Brazil (state of Espirito santo). Most plants are found in the wild, and we saw very few plants (mostly young) are found in cultivation. I have not tasted the flavor of the fruit, but people who have proven, said to be sweet, agreeable flavor and velvety skin.

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Very interesting, thanks Paulo.

FlyingFoxFruits

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One more change....
the correct spelling for this species is Myrciaria spirito-sanctensis
Looks like we have a name change!


here is the quote from the discussion in the thread about the Grimal Jaboticaba

Ok...here is the update...

after corresponding via email with Marco Lacerda (from www.e-jardim.com, and one of the authors of "Brazilan Fruits"), and comparing pictures, and descriptions of a few varieties, we came to the same conclusion:

The variety called "Grimal" in the USA, is most likely a variety called "Peluda-de-alagoas"...and if not this variety, then some other similar variety from the North East of Brazil...that doesn't have a botanical name.

so the botanical name of the Grimal is back to Myrciaria sp. (for now)....and it's certain that M. spirito-santensis is an entirely different species.

[note: Grimal has also been called, Fuzzy Jabo, Cambuca do Norte, and Large Leaf jaboticaba.....so there have been many names for this one variety....and the proper name is most likely Peluda-de-alagoas]
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FlyingFoxFruits

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I have recently introduced the true Myrciaria spirito-sanctensis into the USA.

At first I was worried it would be finicky, like it's close relative, the white jaboticaba (m. aureana)

but after growing these seeds for about 8months, I've noticed that they are extremely durable, and can handle intense heat (over 105F in my greenhouse)

the foliage is very pretty...looking like a cross between M. aureana and M. grandifolia....which both have highly ornamental, and large leaves (and are supposedly very close relatives, all 3 species possibly being part of a species complex)

the fruits are supposedly very unique, sharing an uncommon characteristic with the Grimal Jaboticaba, they are both purple fruited varieties, that have a slight fuzz on the skin (that is why the Grimal was mistakenly identified as M. spirito-sanctensis)

I'm excited to learn more about this species....I need to find out how long it takes to bear from seed...I believe it's similar to Sabara (7-10yrs)....

I have heard the flavor is excellent, putting this species high in the ranks amongst the best jaboticabas (i believe it based on the description of the fruit being purple and fuzzy like Grimal....which is the best variety I've tasted so far)
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FlyingFoxFruits

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I'm starting to ship seedlings of this rare species (Myrciaria spirito-sanctensis)!  It's been a joy to grow so far, much easier than most of the other rare species.  The foliage is beautiful too!  I'm excited to taste fruits eventually !!
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I have recently introduced the true Myrciaria spirito-sanctensis into the USA.

At first I was worried it would be finicky, like it's close relative, the white jaboticaba (m. aureana)

but after growing these seeds for about 8months, I've noticed that they are extremely durable, and can handle intense heat (over 105F in my greenhouse)

the foliage is very pretty...looking like a cross between M. aureana and M. grandifolia....which both have highly ornamental, and large leaves (and are supposedly very close relatives, all 3 species possibly being part of a species complex)

the fruits are supposedly very unique, sharing an uncommon characteristic with the Grimal Jaboticaba, they are both purple fruited varieties, that have a slight fuzz on the skin (that is why the Grimal was mistakenly identified as M. spirito-sanctensis)

I'm excited to learn more about this species....I need to find out how long it takes to bear from seed...I believe it's similar to Sabara (7-10yrs)....

I have heard the flavor is excellent, putting this species high in the ranks amongst the best jaboticabas (i believe it based on the description of the fruit being purple and fuzzy like Grimal....which is the best variety I've tasted so far)

calling all hard-core addicts... :'( ;)  Looks like I will have to help you trial these....how are they against alkalinity/city water?
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FlyingFoxFruits

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So far seems like they are not sensitive to city water!  But remember I'm on a well now...im only going by what others tell me..

Even here with a well some species are finicky.  But not spirito, it's a champ
I have recently introduced the true Myrciaria spirito-sanctensis into the USA.

At first I was worried it would be finicky, like it's close relative, the white jaboticaba (m. aureana)

but after growing these seeds for about 8months, I've noticed that they are extremely durable, and can handle intense heat (over 105F in my greenhouse)

the foliage is very pretty...looking like a cross between M. aureana and M. grandifolia....which both have highly ornamental, and large leaves (and are supposedly very close relatives, all 3 species possibly being part of a species complex)

the fruits are supposedly very unique, sharing an uncommon characteristic with the Grimal Jaboticaba, they are both purple fruited varieties, that have a slight fuzz on the skin (that is why the Grimal was mistakenly identified as M. spirito-sanctensis)

I'm excited to learn more about this species....I need to find out how long it takes to bear from seed...I believe it's similar to Sabara (7-10yrs)....

I have heard the flavor is excellent, putting this species high in the ranks amongst the best jaboticabas (i believe it based on the description of the fruit being purple and fuzzy like Grimal....which is the best variety I've tasted so far)

calling all hard-core addicts... :'( ;)  Looks like I will have to help you trial these....how are they against alkalinity/city water?
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Paulo, welcome to forum your information will just add to the rich plant knowledge of this forum!
Adam, please keep a couple of the myrciaria spirit-sanctensis seedlings for me until warm weather to ship!

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Paulo, welcome to forum your information will just add to the rich plant knowledge of this forum!
Adam, please keep a couple of the myrciaria spirit-sanctensis seedlings for me until warm weather to ship!

these can ship even if temps are in the 30s!  I would be afraid to ship if temps got into the 20's though.

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anyone know the significance of the reference to the Holy Spirit in the latin name?
~Jeff

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FlyingFoxFruits

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anyone know the significance of the reference to the Holy Spirit in the latin name?

the region it's from is Espirito Santo
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gunnar429

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 :-[ :-[ :-[

anyone know the significance of the reference to the Holy Spirit in the latin name?

the region it's from is Espirito Santo
~Jeff

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FlyingFoxFruits

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here is one of the seedlings I kept for my collection...the leaves are pretty!

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polux

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Here is another one from Europe :)


ScottR

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"Pleluda-de-alagoas" seems to have a definitive narrow pointed leaf shape! Adam do you find this to be true! Any idea of cold hardiness ? 8)

FlyingFoxFruits

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"Pleluda-de-alagoas" seems to have a definitive narrow pointed leaf shape! Adam do you find this to be true! Any idea of cold hardiness ? 8)

wait u mean Myrciaria spirito sanctensis right?  those have longer narrow leaves...but  peluda de alagoas (grimal) seems to have leaves much like sabara in shape, only larger, darker green, and the leaves are stiffer (less flimsy)

as for cold tolerance, I assume spirito is much like the aureana, or grandifolia...probably can take down to 25F briefly before it gets fatally injured.
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