Author Topic: Which jaboticaba species (Myrciaria) to plant?  (Read 7667 times)

Mike T

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Which jaboticaba species (Myrciaria) to plant?
« on: June 21, 2015, 01:39:29 AM »
I have planted a few Plinia including edulis,rivularis, Plinia sp. Shawi (giant mulchi like),giant mulchi and dwarf mulchi.I have yellow,sabara and grimal jaboticabas that are fairly mature and fruiting as well.Myrciarias planted out recently include M.aureana, red hybrid,scarlet,vexator and common coronata.

I have 10 other species and some are large enough to plant now and they are,
M.oblongata
M.grandiflora
M.cornonata sand dune type
M.trunciflora
M.guaquiea
M.phitrantha

I have room for 3 more and would prefer smaller adult trees with largest and sweetest fruit.I presume trunciflora,phitrantha and coronata are the most desirable but I have not eaten fruit or seen mature trees.Any advice regarding which of these are good would be appreciated.There is more than one variety in a few of these species but I won't complicate things.

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Re: Which jaboticaba species (Myrciaria) to plant?
« Reply #1 on: June 21, 2015, 04:26:22 PM »
I'm guessing the sweetest is guaquiea (even though i've never tasted), I do not believe the tree will get much taller than 20-25ft? maybe I'm wrong?  I believe it's reported to be less than 20ft tall, but I never believe what I'm told...they all seem to get taller than what the books say.

trunciflora is a superb fruit, but a tall tree, and sensitive to high winds, drought....it also takes many many years to fruit (at least the variety I have in FL, takes 15-20yrs approx)..fruits are large, very sweet with a unique flavor (aftertaste reminiscent of a coffee berry, hence the name, Jaboticaba cafe), pulp is very smooth, fiber free, and has small seeds, but numerous 2-5 per fruit approx....skin is thin, with low tannin.

coronata var restinga, supposedly one of the most precocious varieties of M. coronata, taking only about 5-8 yr to fruit from seed, instead of the usual 15-20yrs.  Sources in Brazil also say its tolerant of coastal plantings (somewhat cold sensitive, not enjoying temps below 27F it seems)...large fruited, supposedly sweet and delicious.  Not sure of tannin content, but I've read the skin is considered thin.

M phitrantha, supposedly one of the best tasting species in the world...but I have noticed this is one of the most fickle species to grow...(seedling trees often languish, I'm assuming due to improper soil biology, or pH that is too high).  Grafted trees are much easier to grow, but still can require chelated Fe drenches and micro nutritional sprays...Thank goodness they can be grafted, it makes growing them so much easier (at least for me it did).  Keep in mind (as i'm sure you know) there are so many varieties of phitrantha it's hard for me to keep up...if possible, don't plant seeds, get scions from a tree that is a named variety!


(oblongata and grandiflora don't get me as excited as the others, but this could be due to ignorance...I have never tasted them...although I have seen pictures and read reports, and did not find them to be provocative.)

« Last Edit: June 21, 2015, 09:28:40 PM by FlyingFoxFruits »
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Mike T

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Re: Which jaboticaba species (Myrciaria) to plant?
« Reply #2 on: June 22, 2015, 07:04:16 AM »
Thanks Saff for the great information as usual.You are still the Master no maestro of Myrciaria,Prince of Plinia and the jaboticaba general.
Just out of interest the Plinia sp.shawi that I have from Ecuador is growing differently in form from Jim Wests giant mulchi and reputedly has bigger fruit.

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Re: Which jaboticaba species (Myrciaria) to plant?
« Reply #3 on: June 22, 2015, 11:42:05 AM »
Mike,
I think you may already have "coronata  da restinga". Restinga is the sandy area next to the Atlantic ocean. Coronata da Restinga, mangaba da Restinga, araticum de praia....and many other fruits come from the sugar sand area next to the water.
Coronata da Restinga may be the one you referring to as "M. coronata sand dune type".
« Last Edit: June 22, 2015, 06:22:26 PM by Berto »

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Re: Which jaboticaba species (Myrciaria) to plant?
« Reply #4 on: June 22, 2015, 12:16:31 PM »
Thanks Saff for the great information as usual.You are still the Master no maestro of Myrciaria,Prince of Plinia and the jaboticaba general.
Just out of interest the Plinia sp.shawi that I have from Ecuador is growing differently in form from Jim Wests giant mulchi and reputedly has bigger fruit.

thanks for kind words Mike.

but the truth is, I'm just a slave to the rhythm of the vibrations that Myrciaria/Plinia emit.

if my servile mind understands you correctly, I am to believe that you are speaking about a different variety of Plinia? other than the two forms that Jim West has offered in the past? 

I know Jim has a dwarf and a larger form...(he said they have a spicy taste, with the dwarf being spicier...I have them labeled as Eugenia subterminalis, but I hear this name is not really accepted....so now it's just Plinia sp.)

I do remember someone (maybe on ebay?) offering one called Plinia shawi, but I thought it was just the same one that Jim has, which is the larger form.
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Re: Which jaboticaba species (Myrciaria) to plant?
« Reply #5 on: June 22, 2015, 03:47:04 PM »
Jim has 3 mulchi as there is the standard as well.The shawi was obtained by Russell and it is a mega in terms of fruit size and a 4th mulchi closest to the giant but fruit shape,foliage etc show it is different.

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Re: Which jaboticaba species (Myrciaria) to plant?
« Reply #6 on: June 22, 2015, 05:25:01 PM »
Jim has 3 mulchi as there is the standard as well.The shawi was obtained by Russell and it is a mega in terms of fruit size and a 4th mulchi closest to the giant but fruit shape,foliage etc show it is different.

Thanks for info Mike.

Truthfully I don't have too much interest in these species, being that I've seen pics of mature trees, and they are huge! (Not the cold hardiest species of Plinia if I recall)

But if I lived in your zone Id be planting them for sure.
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Mike T

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Re: Which jaboticaba species (Myrciaria) to plant?
« Reply #7 on: June 22, 2015, 06:18:51 PM »
Berto yes I have coronata restinga (matt rather than shiny leafed corronata) and the big yellow restinga and even restinga managaba.

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Re: Which jaboticaba species (Myrciaria) to plant?
« Reply #8 on: June 22, 2015, 06:38:30 PM »
Great!
I am amazed at the amount of jabuticaba varieties in Brasil.  Only, fairly recently, Embrapa, IAC (Instituto Agronômico de Campinas), ESALC (Escola Superior de Agricultura Luiz de Queiroz), and Universidade Federal de Viçosa increased the amount of research related to Jabuticaba.
Every now and then, they come up with a new variety! Incredible!

Mike I also grow mangaba da Restinga and mangaba do Cerrado! I am very close to breaking the code of growing mangaba in south Florida. Another 50 years to go....maybe ahahahahahahahahahahah

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Re: Which jaboticaba species (Myrciaria) to plant?
« Reply #9 on: June 22, 2015, 06:50:02 PM »
Great!
I am amazed at the amount of jabuticaba varieties in Brasil.  Only, fairly recently, Embrapa, IAC (Instituto Agronômico de Campinas), ESALC (Escola Superior de Agricultura Luiz de Queiroz), and Universidade Federal de Viçosa increased the amount of research related to Jabuticaba.
Every now and then, they come up with a new variety! Incredible!

Mike I also grow mangaba da Restinga and mangaba do Cerrado! I am very close to breaking the code of growing mangaba in south Florida. Another 50 years to go....maybe ahahahahahahahahahahah

that's wonderful information Berto!  I know Brazil could keep producing a new varieties every year!  (now I believe the USA will be able to compete a little bit too!  I have several new varieties myself, some of which are currently being analyzed, to see what their heritage is...I am trying to prove that I have a new hybrid).

I'm sure if anyone can decipher the mangaba code, it is you!  this species is not for the novice grower!
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Re: Which jaboticaba species (Myrciaria) to plant?
« Reply #10 on: June 22, 2015, 07:32:55 PM »
Mike , I don’t know if Adam or anybody else in the northern hemisphere has a fruiting phitrantha but my previous post ‘ weird jaboticaba ‘ was id’d by several of my Brazilian friends as a phitrantha . I am very happy how this one turned out after an long 6 - 7 years wait . The fruit is very sweet and velvety 3 cm average . So , that would be one of the 3 to plant . I was not impressed by the guaquiea , same taste as the glasioviana and not much larger like they claimed . Fast fruiting YES , started at 50 - 60 cm tall .
Can’t comment on the others you have , mine are all still small .
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Re: Which jaboticaba species (Myrciaria) to plant?
« Reply #11 on: June 23, 2015, 12:14:57 AM »
Jim has 3 mulchi as there is the standard as well.The shawi was obtained by Russell and it is a mega in terms of fruit size and a 4th mulchi closest to the giant but fruit shape,foliage etc show it is different.

Communicating with Jim this information he just gave me. He has 3 types of mulchi plants. Mulchi is just a common name for a group of plants in Ecuador.
1)Giant Mulchi (what he used to call Eugenia subterminalis) is an unnamed type of Plinia, so Plinia sp. In Peru the common name for this same fruit is Shawi. There is no such thing as Plinia shawi. Shawi is a common name, not a species name.
2)Regular sized mulchi = Myrciaria sp.
3)Dwarf mulchi = Myrciaria sp.
Jim doesn't know what the species name for the last 2 are.
Oscar

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Re: Which jaboticaba species (Myrciaria) to plant?
« Reply #12 on: June 23, 2015, 12:18:50 AM »
I have planted a few Plinia including edulis,rivularis, Plinia sp. Shawi (giant mulchi like),giant mulchi and dwarf mulchi.I have yellow,sabara and grimal jaboticabas that are fairly mature and fruiting as well.Myrciarias planted out recently include M.aureana, red hybrid,scarlet,vexator and common coronata.

I have 10 other species and some are large enough to plant now and they are,
M.oblongata
M.grandiflora
M.cornonata sand dune type
M.trunciflora
M.guaquiea
M.phitrantha

I have room for 3 more and would prefer smaller adult trees with largest and sweetest fruit.I presume trunciflora,phitrantha and coronata are the most desirable but I have not eaten fruit or seen mature trees.Any advice regarding which of these are good would be appreciated.There is more than one variety in a few of these species but I won't complicate things.
What Mike? You're not going to plant 2 of every Myrciaria known to man? You just might get kicked out of the addicts club!  ;)
Oscar

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Re: Which jaboticaba species (Myrciaria) to plant?
« Reply #13 on: June 23, 2015, 05:33:50 PM »
Oscar I might be thrown on the street and locked out of the addicts den for not doubling up but I should pull through ok.I may be a space cadet but I just cant find the space unless there are volunteers for mulch patrol.That shawi is probably the giant mulchi as you say but it appears to be a different form with finer foliage and from the pictures, a few fruit 'differences'.I do have the regular mulchi planted as well.The smaller examples from other species I have that were not listed below have missed the jaboticaba express.
It looks like 2 phitrantha and the 2nd type of coronata are the winners.
Thanks to all the experts who have proved to be fountains of knowledge on this topic.
Berto I have also had plenty of luck with mangaba, but unfortunately it had been bad luck.That is, until recently and I now have 3 specimens at 4 inches high.Even if my soil is too heavy and my climate is a bit wet I really want to grow at least one.

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Re: Which jaboticaba species (Myrciaria) to plant?
« Reply #14 on: June 23, 2015, 06:45:37 PM »
Oscar I might be thrown on the street and locked out of the addicts den for not doubling up but I should pull through ok.I may be a space cadet but I just cant find the space unless there are volunteers for mulch patrol.That shawi is probably the giant mulchi as you say but it appears to be a different form with finer foliage and from the pictures, a few fruit 'differences'.I do have the regular mulchi planted as well.The smaller examples from other species I have that were not listed below have missed the jaboticaba express.
It looks like 2 phitrantha and the 2nd type of coronata are the winners.
Thanks to all the experts who have proved to be fountains of knowledge on this topic.
Berto I have also had plenty of luck with mangaba, but unfortunately it had been bad luck.That is, until recently and I now have 3 specimens at 4 inches high.Even if my soil is too heavy and my climate is a bit wet I really want to grow at least one.

There are different versions of the giant shawi, or giant mulchi, as Jim calls them. Jim has told me his giant, is extra giant. Much bigger than ones found in jungle market in Ecuador. He also just confirmed that regular mulchi and dwarf mulchi are the same species, some unknown, or perhaps unnamed Myrciaria sp.
Looks like you will have a great myrciaria collection Mike. I'm also getting much more enthused about myrciarias, thanks to Adam and other jaboticabaholics on this forum.
Oscar

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Re: Which jaboticaba species (Myrciaria) to plant?
« Reply #15 on: June 23, 2015, 09:18:06 PM »
Quote from Oscar :

 I'm also getting much more enthused about myrciarias, thanks to Adam and other jaboticabaholics on this forum.

Planting Myrciarias and others from seeds is for young people , not old farts like me ( 71 springs ) I planted my latests acquisitions a few months ago and that’s it . I am gonna be strong and not cave in when an exciting seed is offered ...lol....





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Re: Which jaboticaba species (Myrciaria) to plant?
« Reply #16 on: June 23, 2015, 11:19:46 PM »
Old farts that keep on planting usually make it to be super old farts.  ;)
Oscar

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Re: Which jaboticaba species (Myrciaria) to plant?
« Reply #17 on: June 24, 2015, 12:18:50 AM »
It ios good to have a reason to live longer such as waiting for a tree to start fruiting.

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Re: Which jaboticaba species (Myrciaria) to plant?
« Reply #18 on: June 24, 2015, 11:07:31 AM »
may the last call for Jaboticabahol fall upon deaf ears!

I'm planting as many as I can today, for the children of tomorrow.

Quote from Oscar :

 I'm also getting much more enthused about myrciarias, thanks to Adam and other jaboticabaholics on this forum.

Planting Myrciarias and others from seeds is for young people , not old farts like me ( 71 springs ) I planted my latests acquisitions a few months ago and that’s it . I am gonna be strong and not cave in when an exciting seed is offered ...lol....
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Re: Which jaboticaba species (Myrciaria) to plant?
« Reply #19 on: June 24, 2015, 11:54:33 PM »
Quote from Oscar :

 I'm also getting much more enthused about myrciarias, thanks to Adam and other jaboticabaholics on this forum.

Planting Myrciarias and others from seeds is for young people , not old farts like me ( 71 springs ) I planted my latests acquisitions a few months ago and that’s it . I am gonna be strong and not cave in when an exciting seed is offered ...lol....






may the last call for Jaboticabahol fall upon deaf ears!

I'm planting as many as I can today, for the children of tomorrow.

Quote from Oscar :

 I'm also getting much more enthused about myrciarias, thanks to Adam and other jaboticabaholics on this forum.

Planting Myrciarias and others from seeds is for young people , not old farts like me ( 71 springs ) I planted my latests acquisitions a few months ago and that’s it . I am gonna be strong and not cave in when an exciting seed is offered ...lol....
Dam Luc, 71 Springs shit that only gives me 3 more Springs to plant seeds :P ;) 8)

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Re: Which jaboticaba species (Myrciaria) to plant?
« Reply #20 on: October 30, 2016, 03:03:53 AM »
Tasted Sabara yesterday, unimpressed. Like wampee. Though it grew on me somewhat. Also tried a Grimal and thought it was actually worse with some flavor I could not pin down but reminded me of seafood (which I don't like).

Not giving up on Plinia and Myrciaria, but would appreciate some advice from veteran tasters who have been promiscuous with their palate in these genera and can advise only the best. I like grapes, lychees, passionfruit, feijoa, kiwifruit and most fruit but the standard jabos have not blown my skirt up for whatever reason.

Edit: I meant that the flavor is similar to wampee. Sour citrus or like a bad finger lime. Hopefully Adam's seeds of red hybrid and white will be better.
« Last Edit: October 31, 2016, 05:57:29 AM by Mango Stein »
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Re: Which jaboticaba species (Myrciaria) to plant?
« Reply #21 on: October 30, 2016, 05:36:30 AM »
What!!! Like Wampee!! You definitely aren't talking about the same sabara or grimal that we have in the U.S. The taste of both is exquisite.
« Last Edit: October 30, 2016, 05:38:33 AM by jabomano »
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Re: Which jaboticaba species (Myrciaria) to plant?
« Reply #22 on: October 30, 2016, 10:23:28 AM »
What!!! Like Wampee!! You definitely aren't talking about the same sabara or grimal that we have in the U.S. The taste of both is exquisite.

Not sure if he was saying the jabos tasted like wampee or that the dislike and disappointment with taste of both jabo and wampee.

I do agree with you however as a jabo is, well, like a jabo or somewhat grapey like and the wampee is distinctive citrus like.
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