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Author Topic: Neem oil  (Read 1017 times)

dragon

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Neem oil
« on: October 10, 2016, 08:40:13 PM »
Hi all,

 My kumquat has a lot of flower. Can I spray neem oil to kill leaf miner while my tree packs with flower and tiny fruits?


fyliu

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Re: Neem oil
« Reply #1 on: October 10, 2016, 10:30:42 PM »
Is your plant flushing with new leaves right now? I heard that leaf miners attack during growth flushes. Once you see the leaf miner trails, it's too late to do anything about it. Save the sprays for next time in that case.

Millet

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Re: Neem oil
« Reply #2 on: October 11, 2016, 10:40:29 AM »
I don't believe Neem Oil kills leaf miner anyway. Once the miner is inside the leaf it safe. - Millet

Jct

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Re: Neem oil
« Reply #3 on: October 11, 2016, 12:48:24 PM »
This guy uses Spinosid to spray for leaf miners:

http://tastylandscape.com/2013/06/20/citrus-leafminer-diagnosis-and-treatment/

You do have to be careful about when it is applied to avoid killing beneficial insects such as bees.  He does go into this and recommends spraying in the evening.  He also provides a lot of other information on leaf miners.
LaVerne Manila Mango; Pixie Crunch, Honeycrisp & Gala Apple Trees; Violette De Bordeaux & Black Mission Fig; Santa Rosa Plum; Nagami Kumquat, Pixie Tangerine, Lemon & Washington Navel Citrus; White & Red Dragon Fruit; Miracle Berry Plant (Synsepalum dulcificum)

LaCasaVerde

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Re: Neem oil
« Reply #4 on: October 21, 2016, 06:25:27 PM »
 I live in the capitol of citrus miners.They are active here from April through October in force Here is what works for me. After the plant has finished flowering apply Bayer Advanced Fruit, Citrus and Vegetable Insect Control as instructed. Do not apply until all bee activity is over as the active compound that kills leaf miners also can hurt the bees which is a no no. I found this provided about a month and a half kick back systemic action against the miners for my smaller citrus and mandarins . It seems to take 2-3 weeks to systemicaly protect the plant. Depending on the size of my trees I move over to Macho 2.0 as it is more effective for the larger ones- 2 months for me with soil drench. I do not apply this 2 months or less to harvest by personal choice.  
 Closer to harvest I switch to  Macho 2.0 as foliar spray just to the new flush areas. Tried and turn stop for citrus miners for me. I will say though that as the plant matures these citrus miners become less and less of a pest as the canopy will comprise more and more of hardened of leaves which are somewhat impervious to the miner.  Now I only foliar spray new growth with Macho and it stops them.  It is more of a cosmetic preference at this point as the miners are not lethal to older trees.
I have had young trees be severley damaged by the pest. If you want a very good unorthodox solution to non bearing citrus tree leaf miner infestations let me know. Non bearing plants are a different story all together.
The others are correct- Neem oil is not effective at all.
In your situation rest assured miners for the most part do not affect the fruit nor the flowers to any real measurable degree. The leaves that have curled will continue photosynthesis in a limited degree. It is your next flush that will be the focal point now.



« Last Edit: October 21, 2016, 07:16:35 PM by LaCasaVerde »

Samu

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Re: Neem oil
« Reply #5 on: October 22, 2016, 12:52:00 AM »
Hi LCV;
Thanks for taking the time to share your knowledge about this "citrus miners" problem. Seems like you have some experience combating this Leafminers. Could you be more in detail of the use of Macho 2.0; what ratio (eg. in FL oz) of that to water (in Gallon) do you use to be more practical to the majority of us, back yard growers?

I have been fighting this Leafminers at (my new to us) home for the last 3 years, and it seems that they attack my citrus trees earlier and heavier each year. I've tried Bayer Advanced already (drench), but most of my trees are still suffering from this pest.

So, if you would elaborate in more detail on the use of the aforementioned Macho 2.0, as well as sharing your experience in combating this Leafminers, I for one would really appreciate it!

Ps. I notice that Macho 2.0 contains 21.4% Imidachlropid, the ingredient that I understand is effective to use against Leafminers and other pest, as compared to Bayer Advance's .235%.

LaCasaVerde

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Re: Neem oil
« Reply #6 on: October 22, 2016, 01:07:02 PM »
Samu,

Your battle with these pests will never end unfortunatly. Once the leaf miner population is established they will return like clockwork every year.  I too had limited success with leaf miner control initially until I understood how these pests operate. Anyway here is the mix ratio for Macho that Ive used. It is much more cost effective than Bayer and a far superior product for leaf miner control from what Ive experienced.

My Flowering is completed usually by Mid March. Some years though into April first. I adjust the below later to correspond with the end of flowering and bee foraging.
I use 1 tsp per 10 oz for soil drench inground plants.  Pour around base of tree. Water lightly in. I apply March 15. By doing so the plants are already protected when the first leaf miners cycle begins April 1-15 here. The idea that leaf miners like the second flush while accurate is misleading as some of my Citrus break dormancy earlier and those later to wake up to first flushes being attacked by miners. Then like clockwork with bearing trees reapply every 35 days as the second and subsequent doses take 2-3 weeks to be drawn back up through the plant.  I wont go indepth into  Imidachlropid as it would take days and there is enough info out there already. But I will say this - the plants root system will only absorb so much of the compound wether .23 or 21.4% Imidachlropid- both which in ratio proportion to water are lethal to leaf miners. From my observations in my garden Macho leaches out of the soil slower due to the higher concentration allowing the plant to perhaps attain a longer period of root uptake. I say this because my Myers lemon tree flushes very fast and can actually outgrow the chemical coverage at the new flush leaf tips. Bayer did not work-Macho did. Then after reading the label for Macho you can decide how close to harvest you want to use the product. My advice is what I use to stop them.
Bayer for me works in my potted plants but not so much for inground trees.

I would suggest reading the label first.
use http://hortipm.tamu.edu/ipmguide/ento/chapters/dilution.html to understand dillution ratios as boring as it is- it has helped me put my mind around  the idea of mix ratios.

The following info is what I use for NON BEARING CITRUS-youngsters- those 1 or more years out from first fruit as in my opinion they are non bearing ornamentals  . It is what Ive found to stop completely miners and is a spray pattern I use only after understanding compound half life, residual and toxicity.

First Macho 2.0 in April or so. Foliar spray Avid -Avid at 4ml per gallon to new flush growth. The miticide wipes out leaf miners at it pools inside the leave itself (translaminor) for 28 days. It also counters mite outbreaks I have noticed after Bayer or Macho. Ive used both in tandem and never had a citrus leafminer problem period.

Currently Im using Macho 2.0 with suffacant-spreader sticker- to new flush only on my larger trees in trandem with MACHO 2.0 soil drench.






LaCasaVerde

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Re: Neem oil
« Reply #7 on: October 22, 2016, 01:15:15 PM »
As to plants Ive used this successfully on in my garden:

Xie Shan, Hamlin, Blood, Owari, Myers, Dekopon, Ponkan, Navels...

Millet

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Re: Neem oil
« Reply #8 on: October 22, 2016, 01:39:41 PM »
LCV thanks for your excellent post on leaf miner control.  It is the best post I've ever seen on this subject.  I live in Colorado, and we don't have leaf miners (thank goodness). All of my trees, both container and in ground, are grown in a large greenhouse.  Welcome to the forum. - Millet

LaCasaVerde

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Re: Neem oil
« Reply #9 on: October 22, 2016, 03:25:57 PM »
Millet, thank you. Your good  reputation preceeds you as Ive followed you for years. 



Samu, after further review Id like to say that my plants are in the ground. Potted plants I would not suggest Avid as the medium toxicity  from runoff can take longer to dissipate as the plants enviornment can be easily manipulated-ie taking the plant inside for winter, shading the potted plant, and so on.  My advice I suppose would then have to be limited to inground juvenile  plants.



Samu

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Re: Neem oil
« Reply #10 on: October 23, 2016, 01:02:13 PM »
LCV,
thank you for taking the time once again to educate us, mostly amateur home growers!
I am bookmarking this post!
Now, in search to get that Macho 2.0...

Samu

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Re: Neem oil
« Reply #11 on: April 08, 2017, 12:59:51 AM »

This is an update of my 8 citrus trees I have currently in my yards.
Following the above method and using Macho 2.0 ingredients described above by LCV (LaCasaVerde),
I am happy to say that all my citrus trees are almost 100% CLM free
this season...!

Only one out the 8 tree is minimally affected, and on this affected tree only a few leafs (about 3 or 4 leaves total) were partially mined, seems like the larvae were trying to make the "tunnel", but lost energy or died before it finished tunneling the whole leave!

I made 3 treatments -so far-, the last time was March 20, 2017; Feb 12 2017 was the 2nd and Nov. 11 2016 was the first treatment this season. Not sure if I needed to start that early, but I didn't want to take a change, cause I noticed CLM attacked my citrus trees earlier and earlier each of the last 3 years...

2017 CLM season is probably not over yet, but usually by this time the CLM were running amok on all my citrus trees...a definite change.

So, I thought I would post this update for everyone's concerns, and thanking you LCV once again for sharing your experience and knowledge to your fellow citrus growers in this forum...


 

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