What tropicals would survive outdoors here?

[waxy]

I don't know how big is your yard but, you can certainly create your own micro climate by building a pond (increase the humidity) and planting some cold hardy trees to protect your trees from cold wind. Don't expect to grow cocoa plants outside, but your chances of successfully growing sub-tropical will be much higher.

Watch this
http://youtu.be/4p5JJFWs1y0

Funny you mentioned this, I actually built a carbon fiber pond with koi (75gal) to accompany the greenhouse.
The humidity levels go from 50%-80%, rarely 100. That's when my louvers automatically open to circulate the air.

Been really cold here lately, high 20's to low 30's for several days on end.
Everything seems to be surviving but not flourishing since they're dormant.

I do keep my White and Yellow Sapote outside dancing in the rain, frost and wind.
Some die back on the new growth flush and it's growing flowers out of control.
I've been trimming but they seem to do it constantly.

Also a massive collection of Australian Finger Limes, 16+ varieties, some were barely grafted a year ago.
They're all doing well, just dropped leaves but a new growth flush revealed itself this weekend. I think I'm in love <3 <3 <3

Also have Hawaiian sugar cane, they're doing fantastic, no issues.

[barath]

Hi Barath

Is there a reason why you don't see mature 20-30' mango,Mamey, Sugar Apple, Green Zapote, Garcinia, Jackfruit, Chico,Inga, Papaya, jaboticaba trees in SF area, we have plenty in Socal? Probably the same reason you don't see rows coconut trees here. There is zero historical evidence that any of these trees thrived in SF, why is that? Short term experiments on pots are good thing but they prove nothing   

I'm totally confused.  I didn't mention 20-30 foot tall trees or trying to prove anything...just reporting on what I have growing in case it is useful to anyone.

[barath]

Daniel (Californiatropicals on this forum) has a Green Sapote that is around 20' tall. Here's a pic:

http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=21711.0

Jaboticaba takes a really long time to get to 20' tall but based on trunk thickness, the trees in Prusch Park (San Jose) and Quarry Lakes (Fremont) must be over 10 years old.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9I1DIMEIS-Y

Axel (of Cloudforest fame) had a very large Inga in Santa Cruz. It would freeze back and regrow every year until it became taller than his house, at which point it became very hardy. I couldn't find any pics but it's been discussed plenty on cloudforest.

Great point -- I was going to mention Axel's Inga too, which I saw in person a few years back and it was huge.  It's too bad he sold his house.  Also, Tom's Green Sapote in El Cerrito is pretty big though I don't remember quite how tall -- it's been fruiting for a couple of years IIRC.

Oh, and for what it's worth, I saw pictures of a couple of mango trees planted in the parking lot of motels on El Camino Real in Santa Clara and they were probably (if I had to guess) about 8' x 8' (kind of bushy -- probably getting frozen back every other year) -- this was this past summer and they were holding a bunch of fruit.  I am hoping to go see them in person sometime this year.  I think they're probably in an ideal microclimate, given that they are relatively close to the bay and surrounded by concrete.

[shaneatwell]

How about non-tropical exotics? Things like Che and Yangmei?

[JF]

Daniel (Californiatropicals on this forum) has a Green Sapote that is around 20' tall. Here's a pic:

http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=21711.0

Jaboticaba takes a really long time to get to 20' tall but based on trunk thickness, the trees in Prusch Park (San Jose) and Quarry Lakes (Fremont) must be over 10 years old.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9I1DIMEIS-Y

Axel (of Cloudforest fame) had a very large Inga in Santa Cruz. It would freeze back and regrow every year until it became taller than his house, at which point it became very hardy. I couldn't find any pics but it's been discussed plenty on cloudforest.

Great point -- I was going to mention Axel's Inga too, which I saw in person a few years back and it was huge.  It's too bad he sold his house.  Also, Tom's Green Sapote in El Cerrito is pretty big though I don't remember quite how tall -- it's been fruiting for a couple of years IIRC.

Oh, and for what it's worth, I saw pictures of a couple of mango trees planted in the parking lot of motels on El Camino Real in Santa Clara and they were probably (if I had to guess) about 8' x 8' (kind of bushy -- probably getting frozen back every other year) -- this was this past summer and they were holding a bunch of fruit.  I am hoping to go see them in person sometime this year.  I think they're probably in an ideal microclimate, given that they are relatively close to the bay and surrounded by concrete.

No im confuse I though you weren't trying to prove anything.....

[Bush2Beach]

Waxy, that's a massive finger lime collection! Are there varieties that are growing much better than others or different distinct growth habits?
 What did you use for root stock? It would be great to see a photo of your collection .
Thanks.



quote author=waxy link=topic=22384.msg270469#msg270469 date=1484599753]

I don't know how big is your yard but, you can certainly create your own micro climate by building a pond (increase the humidity) and planting some cold hardy trees to protect your trees from cold wind. Don't expect to grow cocoa plants outside, but your chances of successfully growing sub-tropical will be much higher.

Watch this
http://youtu.be/4p5JJFWs1y0

Funny you mentioned this, I actually built a carbon fiber pond with koi (75gal) to accompany the greenhouse.
The humidity levels go from 50%-80%, rarely 100. That's when my louvers automatically open to circulate the air.

Been really cold here lately, high 20's to low 30's for several days on end.
Everything seems to be surviving but not flourishing since they're dormant.

I do keep my White and Yellow Sapote outside dancing in the rain, frost and wind.
Some die back on the new growth flush and it's growing flowers out of control.
I've been trimming but they seem to do it constantly.

Also a massive collection of Australian Finger Limes, 16+ varieties, some were barely grafted a year ago.
They're all doing well, just dropped leaves but a new growth flush revealed itself this weekend. I think I'm in love <3 <3 <3

Also have Hawaiian sugar cane, they're doing fantastic, no issues.
[/quote]

[Bush2Beach]

JF,
 You enter the thread guns blazing claiming there is zero evidence of large 20 footers of a list of fruit tree's in SF area.
You called everyone out by saying this does not exist and when evidence you asked  for is provided you refuse to acknowledge the validity of the evidence provided and follow that with " I thought you had nothing to prove". Really, REALLY ?
The people you are calling out are known for posting complete factual information

You asked for it to be proved. I'm trying to figure out if this is passive aggressive or just mean.

I would love to see prove of the 20-30ft White Sapote growing in the Carolinas or the 20-30 ft Garcinia's and Mamey's you are claiming exist in LA area. You should be able to do this if your calling out others in the same manner. 
Because we all want accurate information.

Same as you I was calling BS on the "cold hardy T.T. Mango's" and the silly statements of 1 east bay el burro but I don't see why we can't acknowledge good proven successful fruit tree's and offer congratulations and thumbs up as this will encourage people to continue planting what is actually working.
That's why I am here.
I went to the Orchard of Cloudforest.com and saw 20 Ft Papaya, 25 ft Ice Cream Bean, tasted and saw a grove of W. Sapote for the first time and thought " I can do this too"
We need a lot more people caring about and growing these different fruits that don't exist in a supermarket.
So I say positively encourage the success's of others and share the varieties , cuttings and factual accurate information because it's very important.

Daniel (Californiatropicals on this forum) has a Green Sapote that is around 20' tall. Here's a pic:

http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=21711.0

Jaboticaba takes a really long time to get to 20' tall but based on trunk thickness, the trees in Prusch Park (San Jose) and Quarry Lakes (Fremont) must be over 10 years old.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9I1DIMEIS-Y

Axel (of Cloudforest fame) had a very large Inga in Santa Cruz. It would freeze back and regrow every year until it became taller than his house, at which point it became very hardy. I couldn't find any pics but it's been discussed plenty on cloudforest.

Great point -- I was going to mention Axel's Inga too, which I saw in person a few years back and it was huge.  It's too bad he sold his house.  Also, Tom's Green Sapote in El Cerrito is pretty big though I don't remember quite how tall -- it's been fruiting for a couple of years IIRC.

Oh, and for what it's worth, I saw pictures of a couple of mango trees planted in the parking lot of motels on El Camino Real in Santa Clara and they were probably (if I had to guess) about 8' x 8' (kind of bushy -- probably getting frozen back every other year) -- this was this past summer and they were holding a bunch of fruit.  I am hoping to go see them in person sometime this year.  I think they're probably in an ideal microclimate, given that they are relatively close to the bay and surrounded by concrete.

No im confuse I though you weren't trying to prove anything.....

[Bush2Beach]

Quite a random list . I question some of your assesment.
Which Guava's grow very fast for you , have they fruited?
Jackfruit- i don't see this happening , is your plant still growing? There's serious prohibitive factors in fruiting Jackfruit in the Bay Area.

Avocado's?? Hunh? There's 60 + foot tall Avocado's dating to 50 - 100 years old all over the Bay Area. Maybe not in Marin but people should definetely be growing Avocado in the Bay Area.

Banana's do grow pretty well, I see them frequently as well. It takes a special micro climate for them to fruit. I've only seen them make fruit you can eat in Oakland, so it's surely possible elsewhere.

Passion fruit, there are many varieties, some vigorous evergreen growers , some are extremely slow growers and hard to coax a flower much less a fruit from. That's probably why passionfruit sell for $2-$3 a fruit here and are mainly imported.  "Frederick" and "Nancy garrison" are the purple fruiting Edulis varieties that I've seen fruiting here.

So far I've documented these growing, with varying levels of vigor
Loquats- grow very fast here
Feijoas - grow very fast here
Guavas - grow very fast here
Lemon & strawberry guavas - grow very fast here
Citrus - grows incredibly well
Jackfruit - seedlings freeze and loses leaves in winter, grow back when it warms up
Avocados - not the best place as they are somewhat rare. I know of only a few trees in the area
Bananas (multiple cultivars) - grow pretty well, I see them frequently
Kiwi - I've seen a few vines around
Passionfruit - vigorous evergreen grower

There are probably others but these come to mind

[Bush2Beach]

It can be confusing to lump those plants together as "tropical" especially if someone read your information and was considering growing these .
I'm sure some people do consider these tropical the same way people confuse lots of things.

Feijoa, not tropical, does not fruit in the ... Tropics.
The others can grow in the Sub tropics or tropical .
FYI tropical fruits include mangosteen, Durian, coconut none of which fruit anywhere in California.

Tropicals...NONE.

You need to plant for your location, unless you like plant genocide

If "some" mangoes survive. Then most would.  Will mangoes survive, thrive and produce well...highly doubtful.

People consider dragonfruit, jujube, white sapote, banana, avocado, feijoa, passionfruit, guava and jackfruit tropical...

[joehewitt]

I had very encouraging results from Longan, Starfruit, Allspice, and Lucuma this year. Here's your visual evidence: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-FSOb4hdF8Q

[ScottR]

Nice update Joe, I appreciate the true trail of your tree's being that they were not covered or protected in any way!Keep up the great work of pushing the limit's of tropical-sub-tropical fruit growing.

[joehewitt]

Thanks Robert! I'm going to do another round of experiments this year, but this time I'm going to plant in protected locations in the canopy of larger trees. Last year's trees were out in the open.

[raimeiken]

What about Caimito (Star apple)? anyone know of any trees successfully grown and fruiting in these sub tropical climates?

[fruitlovers]

Tropicals...NONE.

You need to plant for your location, unless you like plant genocide

If "some" mangoes survive. Then most would.  Will mangoes survive, thrive and produce well...highly doubtful.

People consider dragonfruit, jujube, white sapote, banana, avocado, feijoa, passionfruit, guava and jackfruit tropical...

Many on your list are actually sub tropicals, not tropicals, and that is why some can survive in your area. Sub tropicals are plants that originate in high altitude tropics, so they are used to cold, but not to freezing temperatures. Feijoa can take some frost as it originates in southern Brazil, where it occasionally freezes.

[Bush2Beach]

Your concise reiteration of this information is greatly appreciated for anyone that was possibly still confused.

Tropicals...NONE.

You need to plant for your location, unless you like plant genocide

If "some" mangoes survive. Then most would.  Will mangoes survive, thrive and produce well...highly doubtful.

People consider dragonfruit, jujube, white sapote, banana, avocado, feijoa, passionfruit, guava and jackfruit tropical...

Many on your list are actually sub tropicals, not tropicals, and that is why some can survive in your area. Sub tropicals are plants that originate in high altitude tropics, so they are used to cold, but not to freezing temperatures. Feijoa can take some frost as it originates in southern Brazil, where it occasionally freezes.

[fruitlovers]

Your concise reiteration of this information is greatly appreciated for anyone that was possibly still confused.

Tropicals...NONE.

You need to plant for your location, unless you like plant genocide

If "some" mangoes survive. Then most would.  Will mangoes survive, thrive and produce well...highly doubtful.

People consider dragonfruit, jujube, white sapote, banana, avocado, feijoa, passionfruit, guava and jackfruit tropical...

Many on your list are actually sub tropicals, not tropicals, and that is why some can survive in your area. Sub tropicals are plants that originate in high altitude tropics, so they are used to cold, but not to freezing temperatures. Feijoa can take some frost as it originates in southern Brazil, where it occasionally freezes.

Thanks. If you try to grow feijoas in a truly tropical place, then you will see they are not tropical. They won't fruit here unless grown at high elevation. Many types of passionfruits also will not fruit, except at high elevation.

[Tropheus76]

Agreed, most of the initial list is not tropical.
Now granted I am in 9B florida not 9B California, but here are the ones that do "well" for me. I have quite a few zone pushers that just do ok.
Barbados Cherrie
Lychee(sweetheart and mauratis do well, Bengal not so hot)
Loquats(got three types, looking for more)
Key Lime (most vigorous citrus I have and the only one not on a short list for removal)
Olive trees(stupidly easy trees to keep)
Guavas
Jabaticaba
Jamun
Macadamia
Pomagranite

[SoCal2warm]

Lychee has a chance of growing in 9b, if you plant a larger established tree (30+ inches in height). Younger seedlings are much more vulnerable to cold.
However, I'm not sure how the fruits will ripen though, if they'll be able to get enough summer heat.

Have you considered Myrica rubra? It looks like an Arbutus tree in appearance and fruit shape, but the fruit is like blackberry in color and taste. It's popular in parts of China and Southern Japan.

[Tropheus76]

Lychee require chill hours. In my 9B area we haven't been cold enough for lychee to even set fruit the last couple years. I confirmed it wasn't just me talking to some of the other growers in the neighborhood. Also a poor season for pomegranates, out of the three of us who grow them in the area I know of, I  was the only one to even get a flower.

Myrica Rubra- I and many others think would be great. No one has seedlings and seeds generally have VERY poor and slow germination rates. I have been looking for years for seedlings of them and haven't found them. I gave up on seeds after my second hundred or so had no germination.