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Author Topic: Looking for irrigation advice- new orchard SW FL  (Read 3454 times)

CTMIAMI

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Re: Looking for irrigation advice- new orchard SW FL
« Reply #25 on: February 15, 2017, 04:26:47 PM »
Marley, I know a guy in Homestead but I doubt he is going to take the time and you pay the expense to go to West Coast.  May be he can design and sell you the parts. He works with Israel made products. Israelis wrote the book on fertigation.   He has some cool stuff.  PM me if interested.

Whats up Carlos.  For some reason I considered fertigation but never really gave it much thought.  Is this something that you would highly recommend even in a very sandy soil environment?  I may not have the funds for a legitimate setup now but want to have the capability in the future.
Because of the sandy soil you would want to fertigate. I think there is better use of the fertilizers, fertigating a little with every irrigation.  Save $$$$ too
Carlos
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CTMIAMI

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Re: Looking for irrigation advice- new orchard SW FL
« Reply #26 on: February 15, 2017, 04:37:54 PM »
Saw video on soil, interesting. May have to build mounds or similar to raise plants. Still fertigation in this soil will be crucial. Little and frequently.
Carlos
www.myavocadotrees.com
zone 10a Miami-Dade County

TonyinCC

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Re: Looking for irrigation advice- new orchard SW FL
« Reply #27 on: February 15, 2017, 06:46:18 PM »
You will have hogs sooner or later. Last fall I saw a huge hairy black one freshly road-killed on the causeway. I was tempted to pick it up but it was gone 2 hours later... They are infesting the western part of Cape Coral already, as are coyotes.

Cookie Monster

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Re: Looking for irrigation advice- new orchard SW FL
« Reply #28 on: February 15, 2017, 08:16:03 PM »
Interesting video series. The narrator is a little extreme on the sustainability ideal, but he's very articulate and presents a lot of good ideas.
Jeff  :-)

Tropicdude

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Re: Looking for irrigation advice- new orchard SW FL
« Reply #29 on: February 16, 2017, 12:15:49 AM »
Marley, I know a guy in Homestead but I doubt he is going to take the time and you pay the expense to go to West Coast.  May be he can design and sell you the parts. He works with Israel made products. Israelis wrote the book on fertigation.   He has some cool stuff.  PM me if interested.

Whats up Carlos.  For some reason I considered fertigation but never really gave it much thought.  Is this something that you would highly recommend even in a very sandy soil environment?  I may not have the funds for a legitimate setup now but want to have the capability in the future.
Because of the sandy soil you would want to fertigate. I think there is better use of the fertilizers, fertigating a little with every irrigation.  Save $$$$ too

I agree,   in hydroponic systems, usually the substrate is inert, just there to give a place for roots to grow.   plain sand is sometimes used like this.   poor soils benefit the most from such a system.   plus you save on water, compared to traditional irrigation.

Higher density planing of trees, its almost a necessity to use drip irrigation.  the only "problem" I have heard from farmers, is ants clogging the small feeder lines. and of course, the head in the air farm hand that breaks/cuts line occasional with tractor, tools etc.

I have seen Carlos setup, really cool. he can mix the nutrients, and deliver to all the trees, all by himself. ( by injecting them at the pump location ).
William
" The best time to plant a tree is 20 years ago.....The second best time, is now ! "

PM239

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Re: Looking for irrigation advice- new orchard SW FL
« Reply #30 on: February 16, 2017, 07:52:12 AM »
Whats the relationship to mimosa pudica? Referred to locally as hilahila.
Does strigillosa have thorns? [/url]
Do you have any wild hogs in FL?

No hogs are expected on Pine Island, if they come across the causeway they would probably easily eliminated.
I do know about the mimosa pudica.
The sunshine mimosa doesn't have thorns, it is a native plant.
http://nassau.ifas.ufl.edu/horticulture/demogarden/plants/mimosa.html

Carlos, thanks very much for your advice. I will try to get an expert in on design and none of my runs are planned to be more than 80 feet, and I did see the tab breakoffs on the Antelco line.


There are many hogs on Pine Island, I have acquaintances that catch them weekly

PM239

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Re: Looking for irrigation advice- new orchard SW FL
« Reply #31 on: February 16, 2017, 07:56:50 AM »
Check into a "Horizontal Well" 
Saltwater Intrusion can be a problem on the Island, depending on where the land is on the island

Cookie Monster

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Re: Looking for irrigation advice- new orchard SW FL
« Reply #32 on: February 21, 2017, 06:28:46 PM »
Based on the video linked earlier in the thread, I ordered some of those senninger wobblers. They look awesome.
Jeff  :-)

JonathonForester

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Re: Looking for irrigation advice- new orchard SW FL
« Reply #33 on: February 22, 2017, 10:49:26 AM »
Saltwater intrusion would be my concern with the 2" well on the property. Maybe send in a sample for chemical analysis before you use it on anything you care about. Any modern well drilled on PI shouldn't have an issue as long as you get a good driller and have a pvc double cased well (The requirement on barrier islands.)

Cookie Monster

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Re: Looking for irrigation advice- new orchard SW FL
« Reply #34 on: March 07, 2017, 02:32:35 PM »
I installed the senningers, and I am extremely impressed with them. I'm using the lavender (1/8 inch opening) xcel wobblers with 15 PSI regulators. I can get about 20 per zone on 1 inch tubing before output starts to suffer. Radius is about 15 feet (diameter of about 30) with raindrop sized drops, excellent coverage, and about 1.7 gal per minute. The initial investment is pricey, but well worth it.

This place has them: http://www.bradshawsupply.com/Rotating-Sprinklers_c_7.html
Jeff  :-)

FruitFreak

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Re: Looking for irrigation advice- new orchard SW FL
« Reply #35 on: March 07, 2017, 03:54:27 PM »
I installed the senningers, and I am extremely impressed with them. I'm using the lavender (1/8 inch opening) xcel wobblers with 15 PSI regulators. I can get about 20 per zone on 1 inch tubing before output starts to suffer. Radius is about 15 feet (diameter of about 30) with raindrop sized drops, excellent coverage, and about 1.7 gal per minute. The initial investment is pricey, but well worth it.

This place has them: http://www.bradshawsupply.com/Rotating-Sprinklers_c_7.html


Nice work.  Would love to see pics if you ever get a chance. 
- Marley

FruitFreak

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Re: Looking for irrigation advice- new orchard SW FL
« Reply #36 on: April 14, 2017, 09:59:12 PM »
You would want high volume micro sprinklers so you can use them for frost protection. You would need to calculate about .30" of water for the whole field per hour to get decent frost protection. 
I started using micro jets that shoot several streams, not good. Leaves places with no irrigation. Now using the Antelco Rotor, or sprinklers with better result.  They do breake more often but worth it. I use the  20045 Grey .08" at 20 lbs of pressure puts out 35-38 gal an hour  http://www.antelco.com

Mini anything you will need filters unless you have a very strong back and can spent time unclogging heads. Make sure at the end of the lines you can put valves to open every once in a while to purge  the systems. I have valves that do it automatically. 

You may want to consult a professional in the area since systems to work well you need to get to certain pressure etc. 

Also place a tank near the pump so you can  make your blends for fertigation I find that the most valuable tool. 
Best of luck


Hey Carlos.  If it's not too much trouble could you further elaborate on the filters and automatic purge valves.
- Marley

Mark in Texas

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Re: Looking for irrigation advice- new orchard SW FL
« Reply #37 on: April 15, 2017, 08:27:51 AM »
Hey Carlos.  If it's not too much trouble could you further elaborate on the filters and automatic purge valves.

Haven't read the whole thread so I may be speaking out of turn.  I use two inline Amiad filters.  One is in front of a Mazzei injector system near the well head and is designed to catch excess sand from my well.  I blast the sandy stuff into a 5 gal. bucket by opening up a valve on the filter about once a month.  The other Amiad filter is behind the Mazzei, before the zone manifold and irrigation lines.  I have to use a Senninger pressure limiter to keep the PSI at 60 or the emitters shut down.  (Pump outpur is over the top).  Amiad filters are very high quality with easy to clean S/S filters that come in various micron pore sizes.

If Carlos is talking about the purge valves I've tried, they may stay open and not work "automatically" because of salt build up over time. They are inserted at the ends of the lines as opposed to the line being crimped closed.   I took mine out. 

FruitFreak

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Re: Looking for irrigation advice- new orchard SW FL
« Reply #38 on: April 15, 2017, 12:35:18 PM »
Hey Carlos.  If it's not too much trouble could you further elaborate on the filters and automatic purge valves.

Haven't read the whole thread so I may be speaking out of turn.  I use two inline Amiad filters.  One is in front of a Mazzei injector system near the well head and is designed to catch excess sand from my well.  I blast the sandy stuff into a 5 gal. bucket by opening up a valve on the filter about once a month.  The other Amiad filter is behind the Mazzei, before the zone manifold and irrigation lines.  I have to use a Senninger pressure limiter to keep the PSI at 60 or the emitters shut down.  (Pump outpur is over the top).  Amiad filters are very high quality with easy to clean S/S filters that come in various micron pore sizes.

If Carlos is talking about the purge valves I've tried, they may stay open and not work "automatically" because of salt build up over time. They are inserted at the ends of the lines as opposed to the line being crimped closed.   I took mine out.

Mark really appreciate you chiming in on this.  I was planning on using spitter stakes (maybe two per tree) once planted in ground but I'm concerned this may lead to increased routine maintenance to unclog stakes and 1/8" distribution lines.  Right now at my Nursury I probably have 500 spotters that constantly get clogged with algae or other.  Another concern is uneven distribution of irrigation that could lead to dry pockets. I'm more concerned with the former. 

What is the best way to mitigate algae clogs?
- Marley

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Re: Looking for irrigation advice- new orchard SW FL
« Reply #39 on: April 15, 2017, 12:42:50 PM »
For the drip irrigation, best is to just use the inline emitters connected directly to the tubing with a 1/4" drip line into the pot. The sprayers / spitters always get clogged on canal / well water.

Hey Carlos.  If it's not too much trouble could you further elaborate on the filters and automatic purge valves.

Haven't read the whole thread so I may be speaking out of turn.  I use two inline Amiad filters.  One is in front of a Mazzei injector system near the well head and is designed to catch excess sand from my well.  I blast the sandy stuff into a 5 gal. bucket by opening up a valve on the filter about once a month.  The other Amiad filter is behind the Mazzei, before the zone manifold and irrigation lines.  I have to use a Senninger pressure limiter to keep the PSI at 60 or the emitters shut down.  (Pump outpur is over the top).  Amiad filters are very high quality with easy to clean S/S filters that come in various micron pore sizes.

If Carlos is talking about the purge valves I've tried, they may stay open and not work "automatically" because of salt build up over time. They are inserted at the ends of the lines as opposed to the line being crimped closed.   I took mine out.

Mark really appreciate you chiming in on this.  I was planning on using spitter stakes (maybe two per tree) once planted in ground but I'm concerned this may lead to increased routine maintenance to unclog stakes and 1/8" distribution lines.  Right now at my Nursury I probably have 500 spotters that constantly get clogged with algae or other.  Another concern is uneven distribution of irrigation that could lead to dry pockets. I'm more concerned with the former. 

What is the best way to mitigate algae clogs?
Jeff  :-)

Mark in Texas

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Re: Looking for irrigation advice- new orchard SW FL
« Reply #40 on: April 15, 2017, 12:57:09 PM »
Mark really appreciate you chiming in on this.  I was planning on using spitter stakes (maybe two per tree) once planted in ground but I'm concerned this may lead to increased routine maintenance to unclog stakes and 1/8" distribution lines.  Right now at my Nursury I probably have 500 spotters that constantly get clogged with algae or other.  Another concern is uneven distribution of irrigation that could lead to dry pockets. I'm more concerned with the former. 

What is the best way to mitigate algae clogs?

I'm in the heart of large wine grape production, peaches, and other fruits like blackberries.  Must be a new winery and/or vineyard going in every month around here.  :o  Most if not all of us use drip irrigation.  It's been said by an old timer vineyard owner that the roots will concentrate around those emitters, where they drip.  Don't know if that's really true or an issue as my grapes are beasts, and that's with about 28" of rainfall a year.  If you have good rainfall then use your irrigation on new plantings for sure and supplemental otherwise.  Peach growers use drip too.   They run their lines along and thru the lower scaffold branches tree to tree from one end of the row to the other.  I leave mine on the ground.  Never had an algae problem, just salts.  If you have a lot of algae then install a sand filter.  I have plenty of algae in my well water though.  To combat those Ca and Mg bicarbs clogs I run 78% sulfuric acid thru my lines when needed using a Mazzei injector which works pretty well.  Also use to fertigate.   No way is it precise like some of the others but it gets the job done.   I buy the 5 gal. boxes of the acid cheap from auto parts stores.   I also dump a gallon of Chlorox bleach into my house well casing, let it sit for a few days while we're gone and when I get home open up a hose and let it run for a while draining off somewhere downhill.

I use pressure compensating emitters, prefer the Woodpecker brand.  https://www.dripworks.com/drip-irrigation/drippers-emitters/pressure-compensating  I bought a couple of miles of 1/2" poly with emitters extruded in and then added more PC emitters in line. 

Just install then tweek.  Probably pulled and installed crap in my well pump house a dozen times, the last one being that Senninger pressure limiter. 
« Last Edit: April 15, 2017, 12:59:55 PM by Mark in Texas »

Guanabanus

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Re: Looking for irrigation advice- new orchard SW FL
« Reply #41 on: April 15, 2017, 04:33:52 PM »
Some nurseries alternate treatments of their drip with sulphuric acid sometimes, and phosphoric acid other times.
Har

FruitFreak

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Re: Looking for irrigation advice- new orchard SW FL
« Reply #42 on: April 17, 2017, 07:00:56 PM »
after reading everyone's posts it seems that incorporating an injector with filters is imperative.  I need to find one for a 2" main line. 

I'm also assuming that when using the acid to clean system you have to remove the spitters to not hurt the trees, no?
- Marley

CTMIAMI

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Re: Looking for irrigation advice- new orchard SW FL
« Reply #43 on: April 17, 2017, 08:04:27 PM »
Not really eliminate the tremendous job or cleaning the filters in the emitters. Get a sand filter after the pump so all your water is filtered and then you labor will be minimized.  Just back flush the filter once in a while.
Carlos
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Mark in Texas

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Re: Looking for irrigation advice- new orchard SW FL
« Reply #44 on: April 18, 2017, 09:55:16 AM »
after reading everyone's posts it seems that incorporating an injector with filters is imperative.  I need to find one for a 2" main line. 

I'm also assuming that when using the acid to clean system you have to remove the spitters to not hurt the trees, no?

I fill up a 5 gal. bucket with a mix of sulfuric acid and water, never straight. Drop in the Mazzei injector tube, open up the valve a bit and let er rip.  By the time the amended water gets to last emitters the pH is like 5.5.  Test with a good calibrated pH meter.

Again, whatever you put in you'll be tweeking it until you get your program down pat.

Mark in Texas

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Re: Looking for irrigation advice- new orchard SW FL
« Reply #45 on: April 18, 2017, 10:05:29 AM »
For the drip irrigation, best is to just use the inline emitters connected directly to the tubing with a 1/4" drip line into the pot. The sprayers / spitters always get clogged on canal / well water.

If you're using pots, that's a good way to go.  Been there done that.  If in the ground and production is set up in rows drip works fine.  All of this has to be balanced with the well's potential output, pump, etc.   As a frame of reference my farm's irrigation well is capable of at least 33 gpm.  The 1 HP submersible pump puts out around 17 gpm to a manifold, 2 zones.  2 miles of 1/2 poly with 1/2 gph PC emitters extruded in line on 6' centers.  There is so much volume and pressure still that I can pull one of the end closures and shoot a stream of water 30'.   


FruitFreak

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Re: Looking for irrigation advice- new orchard SW FL
« Reply #46 on: April 18, 2017, 07:59:52 PM »
For the drip irrigation, best is to just use the inline emitters connected directly to the tubing with a 1/4" drip line into the pot. The sprayers / spitters always get clogged on canal / well water.

If you're using pots, that's a good way to go.  Been there done that.  If in the ground and production is set up in rows drip works fine.  All of this has to be balanced with the well's potential output, pump, etc.   As a frame of reference my farm's irrigation well is capable of at least 33 gpm.  The 1 HP submersible pump puts out around 17 gpm to a manifold, 2 zones.  2 miles of 1/2 poly with 1/2 gph PC emitters extruded in line on 6' centers.  There is so much volume and pressure still that I can pull one of the end closures and shoot a stream of water 30'.   










This is the valve we just installed for our 5hp pump.  Very curious to see how it performs for domestic and irrigation purposes.
« Last Edit: April 18, 2017, 08:05:49 PM by FruitFreak »
- Marley

Mark in Texas

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Re: Looking for irrigation advice- new orchard SW FL
« Reply #47 on: April 19, 2017, 10:15:54 AM »
This is the valve we just installed for our 5hp pump.  Very curious to see how it performs for domestic and irrigation purposes.

Nice setup, but why the 5 HP pump?  How many feet/miles of irrigation pipe are you going to run?

Just a note, I too use the PVC ball valves which need replacement from time to time.  If you have any sand, no matter how fine, that plastic ball will eventually show grooves.  Brass/S/S valves are way better.   I know, they're expensive as hell but in the long run they save on labor and time.

I love Grundfos submersible pumps.  Like I said my 1 HP kicks butt and is really overkill.   For the house and other structures (greenhouse, store, etc.) I have the Grundfos Constant Water system.   With the touch of a button you  can change the PSI from 40 to 110 on the console, turn it off, has internal diagnostics, dry well control, etc.  It's a DC pump connected to 110V AC such that the voltage supply is used to talk back and forth to the control console and computer in the pump housing.  A pressure transducer in line measures the pressure and tells a computer in the pump how much RPM's to turn.  So, if you're brushing your teeth (low demand) the pump spins slowly.  If the transducer senses that 4 two inch lines are open and you need full output it spins at 12,000 RPM.  Mine has been active going on 13 years.

Also, jerry rigging a 4' long PVC tube skirt by clamping it to the bottom of the pump will insure very little debris intake as the pump kicks in, hits the side of the well with its torque, etc.

Mark in Texas

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Re: Looking for irrigation advice- new orchard SW FL
« Reply #48 on: April 19, 2017, 10:16:54 AM »
......
« Last Edit: April 19, 2017, 10:18:45 AM by Mark in Texas »

spaugh

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Re: Looking for irrigation advice- new orchard SW FL
« Reply #49 on: April 19, 2017, 11:19:31 AM »
This is the valve we just installed for our 5hp pump.  Very curious to see how it performs for domestic and irrigation purposes.

Nice setup, but why the 5 HP pump?  How many feet/miles of irrigation pipe are you going to run?

Just a note, I too use the PVC ball valves which need replacement from time to time.  If you have any sand, no matter how fine, that plastic ball will eventually show grooves.  Brass/S/S valves are way better.   I know, they're expensive as hell but in the long run they save on labor and time.

I love Grundfos submersible pumps.  Like I said my 1 HP kicks butt and is really overkill.   For the house and other structures (greenhouse, store, etc.) I have the Grundfos Constant Water system.   With the touch of a button you  can change the PSI from 40 to 110 on the console, turn it off, has internal diagnostics, dry well control, etc.  It's a DC pump connected to 110V AC such that the voltage supply is used to talk back and forth to the control console and computer in the pump housing.  A pressure transducer in line measures the pressure and tells a computer in the pump how much RPM's to turn.  So, if you're brushing your teeth (low demand) the pump spins slowly.  If the transducer senses that 4 two inch lines are open and you need full output it spins at 12,000 RPM.  Mine has been active going on 13 years.

Also, jerry rigging a 4' long PVC tube skirt by clamping it to the bottom of the pump will insure very little debris intake as the pump kicks in, hits the side of the well with its torque, etc.

I love the 4' long straw idea for the well pump.  Brilliant.  You should patent and sell it.  You will be a millionaire.

 

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